Brian August 1967 interview

[Mike's Beard]

It took a couple of pages discussing the semantics of 'think/know' being used in a quote before we reached the conclusion that Mike is a talentless jerk, but congrats folks we got there in the end.

[Mr. Verlander]

Marilyn: I don’t think he ever had the need…he was just torn down, he really was. They slowly tore him down. I hate to say it, but they did.

[LostArt]

For whatever it is worth, this is how I see Marilyn's meaning; when she is reporting what she means as fact and what she is qualifying as her opinion.

Fact: He would slowly just stay in the bedroom, and let the guys record in the studio, since The Beach Boys paid for the studio, and it became more and more he would stay in bed – let them do their thing. He had a real hard time with the guys, after Pet Sounds and after Smile, because he felt guilty that he got all the attention, he was the one who was called the genius, and he felt the guys really resented that,

Opinion: and I think they did. I think it was very hard for them to understand ‘why is Brian Wilson singled out?’. But anyone with a brain would know why.

Fact: And it was very tough for him because he thought that they all hated him…

Opinion: I think it was like ‘OK you assholes, you think you can do as good as me or whatever – go ahead – YOU do it. You think it’s so easy? You do it’.

Maybe Marilyn will drop by here and correct or clarify.

She doesn't need to drop by here to correct or clarify what she already said.  Her quote was one that was included in a documentary that was approved and released by BriMel.  If Marilyn's thoughts were not accurate or valid, then why would Brian Wilson and the team that produced Beautiful Dreamer choose to include that part of her interview in the documentary?      

[Mr. Verlander]

It took a couple of pages discussing the semantics of 'think/know' being used in a quote before we reached the conclusion that Mike is a talentless jerk, but congrats folks we got there in the end.

My part in all of this is not to discredit Mike, as much as it is to say that you can't always take people literally, on every thing that they say. I don't hate Mike, at times I think he gets a bad rap, and at times it's deserved. It's just that you can't pick and choose how you want to look at things, to fit the agenda that you have in mind.

[Mike's Beard]

It took a couple of pages discussing the semantics of 'think/know' being used in a quote before we reached the conclusion that Mike is a talentless jerk, but congrats folks we got there in the end.

My part in all of this is not to discredit Mike, as much as it is to say that you can't always take people literally, on every thing that they say. I don't hate Mike, at times I think he gets a bad rap, and at times it's deserved. It's just that you can't pick and choose how you want to look at things, to fit the agenda that you have in mind.

My post wasn't aimed at you and I agree with all of your points. However, Brian has been quoted as saying 'the guys hated it (Smile)" and from most accounts this wasn't true. Ask Brian why he scrapped Smile on two different days and you'll get two different answers.

[Cam Mott]

It took a couple of pages discussing the semantics of 'think/know' being used in a quote before we reached the conclusion that Mike is a talentless jerk, but congrats folks we got there in the end.

My part in all of this is not to discredit Mike, as much as it is to say that you can't always take people literally, on every thing that they say. I don't hate Mike, at times I think he gets a bad rap, and at times it's deserved. It's just that you can't pick and choose how you want to look at things, to fit the agenda that you have in mind.

I agree.

[Cam Mott]

Maybe Marilyn will drop by here and correct or clarify.

She doesn't need to drop by here to correct or clarify what she already said.  Her quote was one that was included in a documentary that was approved and released by BriMel.  If Marilyn's thoughts were not accurate or valid, then why would Brian Wilson and the team that produced Beautiful Dreamer choose to include that part of her interview in the documentary?      

I should have explained better. I meant we have had some amazing unexpected guests to the board recently and it doesn't seem as unlikely as it once did that someone like Marilyn might show up here.  To correct or clarify our various understandings of her comments, not to correct or clarify herself.

[Cam Mott]

Yes, that quote was seriously written by a thinking person.

Wasn't there more to that opinion? I seem to remember more?

[clack]

1] There is a strong argument to be made that Mike was indeed one of the top lyricists in pop circa 1963-65.
2] There is an argument to be made that VDP's SMiLE lyrics were misbegotten.
3] There is an argument to be made that Mike and the other members of the group were right about the SMiLE project as that project stood near the end : that Brian was lost trying to assemble all the fragments into a coherent whole, and that in order to salvage their career, the Boys had to move on and get an actual record out.

[Jim V.]

It took a couple of pages discussing the semantics of 'think/know' being used in a quote before we reached the conclusion that Mike is a talentless jerk, but congrats folks we got there in the end.

Maybe you reached that conclusion about Mike. I sure didn't. Within the last month I've listened to "Spring Vacation", "Beaches In Mind" and some stuff from the Mike/Bruce Summertime Cruisin' album. I've also been pushing for Mike to man up and finally release a lot of the pretty decent solo material he has been storing up for the past few decades. So I think I'm pretty far from reaching that conclusion. In fact, it might be fair to say that I give Mike a bit more "creative" leeway than most other posters on here.

So yeah, anyways the conclusion has nothing to do with Mike. It has more to do with the fact that we have a poster on here who seems incapable of admitting he has ever done wrong. And who recently I'm pretty sure admitted that he can't think of any wrong that Dr. Love has done. The poster in question has been spreading this crap for over a decade and I think his insane observations deserve to be called out.

She doesn't need to drop by here to correct or clarify what she already said.  Her quote was one that was included in a documentary that was approved and released by BriMel.  If Marilyn's thoughts were not accurate or valid, then why would Brian Wilson and the team that produced Beautiful Dreamer choose to include that part of her interview in the documentary?      

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the the quote in question was actually from the I Just Wasn't Made For These Times documentary. Which I'm pretty sure was commissioned by Don Was, and not BriMel. So it might not have been directly approved by Brian and Melinda. However, I still think it's valid to say your basic point still stands.

[LostArt]

She doesn't need to drop by here to correct or clarify what she already said.  Her quote was one that was included in a documentary that was approved and released by BriMel.  If Marilyn's thoughts were not accurate or valid, then why would Brian Wilson and the team that produced Beautiful Dreamer choose to include that part of her interview in the documentary?      

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the the quote in question was actually from the I Just Wasn't Made For These Times documentary. Which I'm pretty sure was commissioned by Don Was, and not BriMel. So it might not have been directly approved by Brian and Melinda. However, I still think it's valid to say your basic point still stands.

Oops.  I stand corrected.  Carry on.

[Mike's Beard]

It took a couple of pages discussing the semantics of 'think/know' being used in a quote before we reached the conclusion that Mike is a talentless jerk, but congrats folks we got there in the end.

Maybe you reached that conclusion about Mike. I sure didn't. Within the last month I've listened to "Spring Vacation", "Beaches In Mind" and some stuff from the Mike/Bruce Summertime Cruisin' album. I've also been pushing for Mike to man up and finally release a lot of the pretty decent solo material he has been storing up for the past few decades. So I think I'm pretty far from reaching that conclusion. In fact, it might be fair to say that I give Mike a bit more "creative" leeway than most other posters on here.

You do know my post was sarcastic, right?

[Mike's Beard]

On another note, at some point during the Smile sessions the band must have asked Brian "How the Hell are we expected to play this stuff live on stage?"
In my mind this must have been a much bigger concern then the odd Van Dyke lyric. The live band was in danger of becoming a relic, unable to progress because so much of the new material couldn't be performed by the basic 5 man line-up. The Beach Boys were not a Brian Wilson studio art project, they were a group. The 1967 interview sounds like Brian has accepted that he was making music not 100% feasable for a working band and had got hung up on chasing an audience that wasn't interested in hearing the Beach Boys go 'hip'.

[Cam Mott]

I often wonder about that "play it live" thing. What in SMiLE would have been more challenging than the songs from PS or GV, which they were already doing? As I remember they had planned to take an expanded band to Europe/England in October 66 but dropped the idea to save expenses when their shows sold out. Then they actually did take an extended band in May 67.  Seems to me they were already handling it quit successfully, with or without an extended band.

[CenturyDeprived]

It took a couple of pages discussing the semantics of 'think/know' being used in a quote before we reached the conclusion that Mike is a talentless jerk, but congrats folks we got there in the end.

Maybe you reached that conclusion about Mike. I sure didn't. Within the last month I've listened to "Spring Vacation", "Beaches In Mind" and some stuff from the Mike/Bruce Summertime Cruisin' album. I've also been pushing for Mike to man up and finally release a lot of the pretty decent solo material he has been storing up for the past few decades. So I think I'm pretty far from reaching that conclusion. In fact, it might be fair to say that I give Mike a bit more "creative" leeway than most other posters on here.

So yeah, anyways the conclusion has nothing to do with Mike. It has more to do with the fact that we have a poster on here who seems incapable of admitting he has ever done wrong. And who recently I'm pretty sure admitted that he can't think of any wrong that Dr. Love has done. The poster in question has been spreading this crap for over a decade and I think his insane observations deserve to be called out.

+1

And as is the case with Mike himself, the very, very small handful of posters who behave in that unwavering, unwilling to budge an inch, and unable to admit being wrong ever type of manner,  do not help their cause; on the contrary, they wind up hurting their case, and their point of view is not legitimized. Extremism never helped any cause, and that goes well beyond the subject were talking about here.

[Cam Mott]

The 1967 interview sounds like Brian has accepted that he was making music not 100% feasable for a working band and had got hung up on chasing an audience that wasn't interested in hearing the Beach Boys go 'hip'.

I agree and if you add in the quotes through 1966 it seems to me that Brian knew what was happening/hip in the scene but was going for his independent ideas of happening/hip with his eye on the long game but confident in what he was releasing and had released in the past. Maybe it is just me.

[Jim V.]

You still never answered these questions Cammy....

Is "Macarena" four times better a song then "Kokomo" because it sold four times the copies?

Guess so, right?

So then that means "Who Let the Dogs Out?" is quantifiably a better song than "Getcha Back"?

Do you agree with that?

Lastly, do you agree that Summer In Paradise is by far the worst Beach Boys album since it hasn't sold anywhere close to the numbers of any of their other albums?

[Cam Mott]

Deleted by Cam.  Sorry bgas.

[bgas]

Deleted.

WOW! Somebody deleted Cam.
Will he be back?

[CenturyDeprived]

You still never answered these questions Cammy....

Is "Macarena" four times better a song then "Kokomo" because it sold four times the copies?

Guess so, right?

So then that means "Who Let the Dogs Out?" is quantifiably a better song than "Getcha Back"?

Do you agree with that?

Lastly, do you agree that Summer In Paradise is by far the worst Beach Boys album since it hasn't sold anywhere close to the numbers of any of their other albums?

Yeah, I too am greatly disappointed to not hear what the answers to those questions would be.

[Cam Mott]

You still never answered these questions Cammy....

Is "Macarena" four times better a song then "Kokomo" because it sold four times the copies?

Guess so, right?

So then that means "Who Let the Dogs Out?" is quantifiably a better song than "Getcha Back"?

Do you agree with that?

Lastly, do you agree that Summer In Paradise is by far the worst Beach Boys album since it hasn't sold anywhere close to the numbers of any of their other albums?

Yeah, I too am greatly disappointed to not hear what the answers to those questions would be.

I'd like to but the whole thing wasn't posted and I can't remember the whole hypothetical.

[Mikie]

Deleted.

WOW! Somebody deleted Cam.
Will he be back?

Yeah, WOW!

You should have seen what he wrote about you before he deleted it! Daaaaamn!

[Jim V.]

You still never answered these questions Cammy....

Is "Macarena" four times better a song then "Kokomo" because it sold four times the copies?

Guess so, right?

So then that means "Who Let the Dogs Out?" is quantifiably a better song than "Getcha Back"?

Do you agree with that?

Lastly, do you agree that Summer In Paradise is by far the worst Beach Boys album since it hasn't sold anywhere close to the numbers of any of their other albums?

Yeah, I too am greatly disappointed to not hear what the answers to those questions would be.

I'd like to but the whole thing wasn't posted and I can't remember the whole hypothetical.

I'm not asking hypothetically. You never said that "hypothetically" that Mike Love is one of the greatest pop lyricists of all time. You just straight up said it. If you'd like to take that back that's fine with me. Might gain you some sanity points from the other posters on the board.

I'm just asking by your standards, which you apply to say that Mike Love is one of the greatest pop lyricists of all time. Maybe now you're copping to saying that this was hypothetical, but I don't recall you ever saying that. So, are you now saying that Doctor Love is not one of the greatest pop lyricists after all?

So is there a reason that you can't answer these. Once more I will pose these three questions to you. And I'm even bolding them just in case you're having trouble seeing them. If you refuse to answer, I suppose that I will show us that you only apply your supposed "beliefs" when they benefit a certain cause you're trying to pu

Is "Macarena" four times better a song then "Kokomo" because it sold four times the copies?

Do you believe that "Who Let the Dogs Out?" is quantifiably a better song than "Getcha Back" as it's sold many more copies?

Lastly, do you agree that Summer In Paradise is by far the worst Beach Boys album since it hasn't sold anywhere close to the numbers of any of their other albums?

[Cam Mott]

By definition the Pop songs with Wilson's music are the greatest of the Beach Boys catalog and no other single composer or all other composers of BBs' songs combined even come close to Brian's mark I believe it is accurate to say. If the BBs are one of the greatest Pop groups of all time and their songs are among the best Pop songs of all time and most of their best have music by Brian then it seems to me he is certifiably [not subjectively] one of the greatest Pop composers [not to mention vocalists] of all time.

[Jim V.]

By definition the Pop songs with Wilson's music are the greatest of the Beach Boys catalog and no other single composer or all other composers of BBs' songs combined even come close to Brian's mark I believe it is accurate to say. If the BBs are one of the greatest Pop groups of all time and their songs are among the best Pop songs of all time and most of their best have music by Brian then it seems to me he is certifiably [not subjectively] one of the greatest Pop composers [not to mention vocalists] of all time.

Right. So the "Macarena" is four times better than "Kokomo" by that standard, right? You forgot to answer, Cam.