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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #1700 on: November 09, 2016, 05:09:02 PM »

Well life goes on, thankfully the election cycle from hell is over...
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« Reply #1701 on: November 09, 2016, 05:29:46 PM »

The fallout is worse than the lead-up to it. I'm getting attacked from both sides Sad
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Emily
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« Reply #1702 on: November 09, 2016, 09:45:27 PM »


There's disagreeing with Clinton's positions.
There's also standing by while you see her ripped to pieces with lies. Knowing they are lies. Knowing they are to the degree that the opponent's supporters are calling for her to be hung, shot by a firing squad, "lock her up", "Trump that bitch", and not speaking out.
This is what at least some subset of women feel: that it's very familiar for a woman who makes a public stance to be shamed and for no one to defend her, for fear of being shamed themselves. That the men that we think are allies stand by and watch silently. Then, when it's over, for them to say it was her fault.
Maybe while you express your empathy for the people doing the shaming, you can also have some empathy for the person shamed, and the people who are vicariously feeling it as another incident like so many they've experienced personally and like their friends have experienced.
I was asked earlier if I would feel the same way about Clinton if she were a man. My response is - no. Because this would have been a wholly different campaign if she were a man. Maybe hjs policies would've been paramount in my mind, as they were earlier in the campaign (though I still would've thought it's an easy choice between him and Trump). But the way she was treated, and the silence or even piling on by people who should know better made me realize increasingly that the fact that she's a woman is what was determining people's reactions against her. Obama and Clinton are extremely close in policy, yet people were so much more ready to stand up for him over the birther or whatever issues, even if they disagreed with his policies.
The public pillorying of Hillary Clinton determined my level of support for her. And the lack of defense by people who consider themselves thoughtful is extremely disappointing.
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« Reply #1703 on: November 09, 2016, 11:17:53 PM »

Quote
Knowing they are to the degree that the opponent's supporters are calling for her to be hung, shot by a firing squad, "lock her up", "Trump that bitch", and not speaking out.

That is absolutely horrible.  Regardless of how I feel about her and Bill, there's no excuse for that.
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« Reply #1704 on: November 10, 2016, 02:08:12 AM »

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the opponent's supporters are calling for her to be hung, shot by a firing squad, "lock her up", "Trump that bitch"

Funnily enough, Twitter is full of Hillary supporters calling for the assassination of the new President.
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Emily
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« Reply #1705 on: November 10, 2016, 03:26:02 AM »

Quote
the opponent's supporters are calling for her to be hung, shot by a firing squad, "lock her up", "Trump that bitch"

Funnily enough, Twitter is full of Hillary supporters calling for the assassination of the new President.
Which is awful.
But I certainly should have been more clear, given people's penchant to draw an equivalence between Trump himself egging on violence at his rallies and a few Clinton supporters being violent at his rallies: the Trump supporters who said she should be hung and executed by a firing squad were elected republicans whom Trump included at his rallies even after they'd said such things. "Lock her up" was a chant at his rallies that he explicitly echoed a few times. "Trump that bitch" was the most popular t-shirt motto sold at his rallies and it was frequently chanted without discouragement from the candidate.
And Trump himself and his official campaign were the purveyors of many of the lies
It was not just a Twitter swarm, which is a disgusting cultural phenomenon, but an integral part of the opponents campaign. Disgusting people exist everywhere, but this level of disgusting has never been led by one candidate against another and supported by so many people with so few willing to denounce it. The media, so terribly biased for Clinton, barely mentioned it in their various and multiple pieces about the wrongs of Donald Trump.
And, btw, he is not the new president.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 03:35:06 AM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #1706 on: November 10, 2016, 03:29:23 AM »

Quote
the opponent's supporters are calling for her to be hung, shot by a firing squad, "lock her up", "Trump that bitch"

Funnily enough, Twitter is full of Hillary supporters calling for the assassination of the new President.
Which is awful.
But I certainly should have been more clear, given people's penchant to draw an equivalence between Trump himself egging on violence at his rallies and a few Clinton supporters being violent at his rallies: the Trump supporters who said she should be hung and executed by a firing squad were elected republicans whom Trump included at his rallies even after they'd said such things. "Lock her up" was a chant at his rallies that he explicitly echoed a few times. "Trump that bitch" was. It just something some ransoms person said, but the motto on the best selling shirt at his rallies. It was also chanted at his rallies.

It was not just a Twitter swarm, which is a disgusting cultural phenomenon, but an integral part of the opponents campaign.
And, btw, he is not the new president.

Remember that time people in the Clinton campaign admitted on camera to paying homeless people to stir up trouble at Trump rallies?
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Emily
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« Reply #1707 on: November 10, 2016, 03:36:25 AM »

Quote
the opponent's supporters are calling for her to be hung, shot by a firing squad, "lock her up", "Trump that bitch"

Funnily enough, Twitter is full of Hillary supporters calling for the assassination of the new President.
Which is awful.
But I certainly should have been more clear, given people's penchant to draw an equivalence between Trump himself egging on violence at his rallies and a few Clinton supporters being violent at his rallies: the Trump supporters who said she should be hung and executed by a firing squad were elected republicans whom Trump included at his rallies even after they'd said such things. "Lock her up" was a chant at his rallies that he explicitly echoed a few times. "Trump that bitch" was. It just something some ransoms person said, but the motto on the best selling shirt at his rallies. It was also chanted at his rallies.

It was not just a Twitter swarm, which is a disgusting cultural phenomenon, but an integral part of the opponents campaign.
And, btw, he is not the new president.

Remember that time people in the Clinton campaign admitted on camera to paying homeless people to stir up trouble at Trump rallies?
Remember that time when irritating someone was not the same as orchestrating a nationwide misogynistic smear campaign?
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SinisterSmile
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« Reply #1708 on: November 10, 2016, 03:42:54 AM »

Quote
the opponent's supporters are calling for her to be hung, shot by a firing squad, "lock her up", "Trump that bitch"

Funnily enough, Twitter is full of Hillary supporters calling for the assassination of the new President.
Which is awful.
But I certainly should have been more clear, given people's penchant to draw an equivalence between Trump himself egging on violence at his rallies and a few Clinton supporters being violent at his rallies: the Trump supporters who said she should be hung and executed by a firing squad were elected republicans whom Trump included at his rallies even after they'd said such things. "Lock her up" was a chant at his rallies that he explicitly echoed a few times. "Trump that bitch" was. It just something some ransoms person said, but the motto on the best selling shirt at his rallies. It was also chanted at his rallies.

It was not just a Twitter swarm, which is a disgusting cultural phenomenon, but an integral part of the opponents campaign.
And, btw, he is not the new president.

Remember that time people in the Clinton campaign admitted on camera to paying homeless people to stir up trouble at Trump rallies?
Remember that time when irritating someone was not the same as orchestrating a nationwide misogynistic smear campaign?

I think you should answer my question first.
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Emily
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« Reply #1709 on: November 10, 2016, 03:46:46 AM »

Your question isn't pertinent to the comment that you quoted. In facrt, it's a repeat of the comment my comment was responding to. It's another false equivalence used to duck the topic.
You were one of the specific people in here participating in the smears. The Captain's response to that was one of the few in this thread that anyone bothered to indicate even recognition of that BS for what it is.
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« Reply #1710 on: November 10, 2016, 03:51:06 AM »

Your question isn't pertinent to the comment that you quoted. In facrt, it's a repeat of the comment my comment was responding to. It's another false equivalence used to duck the topic.
You were one of the specific people in here participating in the smears. The Captain's response to that was one of the few in this thread that anyone bothered to indicate even recognition of that BS for what it is.

Wait, I was participating in smears? Anti-woman smears, what? This is news to me. You're welcome to point it out.
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Emily
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« Reply #1711 on: November 10, 2016, 03:53:08 AM »

Your question isn't pertinent to the comment that you quoted. In facrt, it's a repeat of the comment my comment was responding to. It's another false equivalence used to duck the topic.
You were one of the specific people in here participating in the smears. The Captain's response to that was one of the few in this thread that anyone bothered to indicate even recognition of that BS for what it is.

Wait, I was participating in smears? Anti-woman smears, what? This is news to me. You're welcome to point it out.
The whole Clinton's too weak to be president.
This is like "wait, Trump's a bully?" Seriously.
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SinisterSmile
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« Reply #1712 on: November 10, 2016, 03:57:55 AM »

Your question isn't pertinent to the comment that you quoted. In facrt, it's a repeat of the comment my comment was responding to. It's another false equivalence used to duck the topic.
You were one of the specific people in here participating in the smears. The Captain's response to that was one of the few in this thread that anyone bothered to indicate even recognition of that BS for what it is.

Wait, I was participating in smears? Anti-woman smears, what? This is news to me. You're welcome to point it out.
The whole Clinton's too weak to be president.
This is like "wait, Trump's a bully?" Seriously.

You mean when I posted a video of her fainting? When she had numerous coughing fits? When I mentioned the fact that she had a brain clot liken 3 years ago? When she needs 2 people to help her climb a single step? When she can barely talk at a rally for more than 20 minutes? When one her last rallies lasted 7 minutes because it rained? When I mentioned that her top aid Huma is quoted as saying 'she's often confused'?


I pointed this out because I hate women?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 03:58:31 AM by SinisterSmile » Logged
Emily
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« Reply #1713 on: November 10, 2016, 04:04:40 AM »

Your question isn't pertinent to the comment that you quoted. In facrt, it's a repeat of the comment my comment was responding to. It's another false equivalence used to duck the topic.
You were one of the specific people in here participating in the smears. The Captain's response to that was one of the few in this thread that anyone bothered to indicate even recognition of that BS for what it is.

Wait, I was participating in smears? Anti-woman smears, what? This is news to me. You're welcome to point it out.
The whole Clinton's too weak to be president.
This is like "wait, Trump's a bully?" Seriously.

You mean when I posted a video of her fainting? When she had numerous coughing fits? When I mentioned the fact that she had a brain clot liken 3 years ago? When she needs 2 people to help her climb a single step? When she can barely talk at a rally for more than 20 minutes? When one her last rallies lasted 7 minutes because it rained? When I mentioned that her top aid Huma is quoted as saying 'she's often confused'?


I pointed this out because I hate women?

Exactly then. When someone apparently having joint problems and fainting when she has pneumonia and having a medical incident years ago  becomes "she's too weak to be president" despite the fact that running a presidential campaign, testifying for however many hours perfectly lucidly, and the hours she kept when SoS were more than most of us can do and more than the president has to do while in office.
Yes. That. It was utter bullshit and it was used, caught on, and spread as a misogynist meme.
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SinisterSmile
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« Reply #1714 on: November 10, 2016, 04:08:54 AM »

Your question isn't pertinent to the comment that you quoted. In facrt, it's a repeat of the comment my comment was responding to. It's another false equivalence used to duck the topic.
You were one of the specific people in here participating in the smears. The Captain's response to that was one of the few in this thread that anyone bothered to indicate even recognition of that BS for what it is.

Wait, I was participating in smears? Anti-woman smears, what? This is news to me. You're welcome to point it out.
The whole Clinton's too weak to be president.
This is like "wait, Trump's a bully?" Seriously.

You mean when I posted a video of her fainting? When she had numerous coughing fits? When I mentioned the fact that she had a brain clot liken 3 years ago? When she needs 2 people to help her climb a single step? When she can barely talk at a rally for more than 20 minutes? When one her last rallies lasted 7 minutes because it rained? When I mentioned that her top aid Huma is quoted as saying 'she's often confused'?


I pointed this out because I hate women?

Exactly then. When someone apparently having joint problems and fainting when she has pneumonia and having a medical incident years ago  becomes "she's too weak to be president" despite the fact that running a presidential campaign, testifying for however many hours perfectly lucidly, and the hours she kept when SoS were more than most of us can do and more than the president has to do while in office.
Yes. That. It was utter bullshit and it was used, caught on, and spread as a misogynist meme.

I'm sorry that your candidate didn't win, but I don't hate women.
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Emily
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« Reply #1715 on: November 10, 2016, 04:11:30 AM »

I'' sure you don't believe you do. Just like people who compare Obama to an ape or constantly respond to concerns about law enforcement with their obsession with "black-on-black" crime don't have a racist bone in their body.
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« Reply #1716 on: November 10, 2016, 04:14:27 AM »

I'' sure you don't believe you do. Just like people who compare Obama to an ape or constantly respond to concerns about law enforcement with their obsession with "black-on-black" crime don't have a racist bone in their body.

Your hallucination of me sounds like a horrible person, but it's not who I am.
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Emily
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« Reply #1717 on: November 10, 2016, 04:19:10 AM »

I'' sure you don't believe you do. Just like people who compare Obama to an ape or constantly respond to concerns about law enforcement with their obsession with "black-on-black" crime don't have a racist bone in their body.

Your hallucination of me sounds like a horrible person, but it's not who I am.
The majority of people deny being racist or misogynist, but if you deny the impact of those things in society or on the campaign, you are not able to recognize it outside yourself, so how would you be expected to recognize it inside yourself?
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« Reply #1718 on: November 10, 2016, 04:24:35 AM »

I'' sure you don't believe you do. Just like people who compare Obama to an ape or constantly respond to concerns about law enforcement with their obsession with "black-on-black" crime don't have a racist bone in their body.

Your hallucination of me sounds like a horrible person, but it's not who I am.
The majority of people deny being racist or misogynist, but if you deny the impact of those things in society or on the campaign, you are not able to recognize it outside yourself, so how would you be expected to recognize it inside yourself?

I certainly didn't expect a stranger on a Beach Boys forum to tell me that I'm secretly a woman hater.
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« Reply #1719 on: November 10, 2016, 04:27:37 AM »

SinisterSmile, do you really believe it's a coincidence that the two major critiques against Obama and Clinton (both of which mostly emanated from Trump) were that he wasn't an American and she was weak? You don't think both of those critiques played into entrenched stereotypes about race and gender in America?
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« Reply #1720 on: November 10, 2016, 04:31:38 AM »

SinisterSmile, do you really believe it's a coincidence that the two major critiques against Obama and Clinton (both of which mostly emanated from Trump) were that he wasn't an American and she was weak? You don't think both of those critiques played into entrenched stereotypes about race and gender in America?

Chocolate Shake Man, do you think I hate women?
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #1721 on: November 10, 2016, 04:36:42 AM »

It is funny how people who claim they are anti-PC are the most offended people of all. Cool Guy
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #1722 on: November 10, 2016, 04:37:04 AM »

SinisterSmile, do you really believe it's a coincidence that the two major critiques against Obama and Clinton (both of which mostly emanated from Trump) were that he wasn't an American and she was weak? You don't think both of those critiques played into entrenched stereotypes about race and gender in America?

Chocolate Shake Man, do you think I hate women?

I don't know you at all. Now that I've answered yours can you answer mine?
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SinisterSmile
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« Reply #1723 on: November 10, 2016, 04:41:29 AM »

SinisterSmile, do you really believe it's a coincidence that the two major critiques against Obama and Clinton (both of which mostly emanated from Trump) were that he wasn't an American and she was weak? You don't think both of those critiques played into entrenched stereotypes about race and gender in America?

Chocolate Shake Man, do you think I hate women?

I don't know you at all. Now that I've answered yours can you answer mine?

Sure thing. Trump branded Hillary as crooked, not weak. Trumps major critique of Obama was a lack of change and Obamacare.
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« Reply #1724 on: November 10, 2016, 04:42:18 AM »

It is funny how people who claim they are anti-PC are the most offended people of all. Cool Guy

Hope you don't mean me, SMiLE Brian
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