Campaign 2016

[Moon Dawg]

  Paul Simon offered a rough version of "Bridge Over Troubled Water" at the DNC last night. I'm thinking "Me and Hillary Down by the Schoolyard" might have been better.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

The American citizens have no more to fear from immigrants than they do from themselves. It's just fiction that immigrants--illegal or otherwise--are more prone to violent crime, terrorism, etc. It's not true. You can trot out single examples, multiple examples, but it's not true that these things happen more than fully domestic crimes.

There is no massive highway from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, etc., to Mexico, where jihadists dressed as Mexicans sneak across our border, take up jobs as farm laborers or janitors, biding their time quietly while planning their massive infiltration of our country through dramatic terrorist means. Terrorists grow where they grow, there is no massive need to export or import. The ones here were usually born here and commit their atrocities here. Orlando, Dallas, Baton Rouge, to name recent examples.

The answer isn't obvious, but it is obvious that it isn't deporting tens of millions of people and building a wall. A fucking wall? It's absurd on its face and anyone who isn't an absolute idiot is well aware of this. It's fiction, and it's fiction that unnecessarily demonizes plenty of illegally here, but otherwise law-abiding, people whose sinister offense is trying to care for their families.

The ISIS-inspired attacks can--and will--continue regardless of our, France's, or anyone else's immigration policies. Our immigration issues, particularly through our southern border, and ISIS are not directly related issues. Building a wall can't and shouldn't help Americans "live in safety without fear of being attacked in our own land." We are attacked in our own land all the time by our own citizens. And fear isn't something a wall can solve, as it is an internal phenomenon stoked by people with financial and political interests in doing so.

Exactly.

And here's something. .would a wall have prevented the bombings perpetrated by Timothy McVeigh?

[filledeplage]

The American citizens have no more to fear from immigrants than they do from themselves. It's just fiction that immigrants--illegal or otherwise--are more prone to violent crime, terrorism, etc. It's not true. You can trot out single examples, multiple examples, but it's not true that these things happen more than fully domestic crimes.

There is no massive highway from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, etc., to Mexico, where jihadists dressed as Mexicans sneak across our border, take up jobs as farm laborers or janitors, biding their time quietly while planning their massive infiltration of our country through dramatic terrorist means. Terrorists grow where they grow, there is no massive need to export or import. The ones here were usually born here and commit their atrocities here. Orlando, Dallas, Baton Rouge, to name recent examples.

The answer isn't obvious, but it is obvious that it isn't deporting tens of millions of people and building a wall. A fucking wall? It's absurd on its face and anyone who isn't an absolute idiot is well aware of this. It's fiction, and it's fiction that unnecessarily demonizes plenty of illegally here, but otherwise law-abiding, people whose sinister offense is trying to care for their families.

The ISIS-inspired attacks can--and will--continue regardless of our, France's, or anyone else's immigration policies. Our immigration issues, particularly through our southern border, and ISIS are not directly related issues. Building a wall can't and shouldn't help Americans "live in safety without fear of being attacked in our own land." We are attacked in our own land all the time by our own citizens. And fear isn't something a wall can solve, as it is an internal phenomenon stoked by people with financial and political interests in doing so.

Exactly.

And here's something. .would a wall have prevented the bombings perpetrated by Timothy McVeigh?

Of course that bombing would not have been prevented by a wall.

ISIS  and affiliates have declared a war on "Crusaders/Jews"  worldwide and have effectuated attacks in multiple countries by way of instructive video via social media with either bombs made from household materials, (like pressure cookers at the Boston Marathon) to avenge others (a broad group) and to impose their legal system from a radical sect going back centuries.  Comparing McVeigh to ISIS does not make sense to me.  These attacks are coming every day, sometimes twice a day.  

There is an ideology in conflict with our culture and practices.  We give women the right to vote, and self determine.  They don't ask permission of a man to do anything.  They are free.  Gay people are not thrown off buildings.  Those ideas clash with our laws.  There can be no conflict.  The US Constitution is the law of the land.  Period.  We don't follow the laws of another religion because we don't recognize the mixing of religion and law.  They are separate.  

The immigration issues are far different as they affect anyone who wants to come to this country.  You apply, pay a fee, show your documents, as anyone else who wants to become a citizen in any other country.  They vet their applicants and for example, most countries only let you stay 6 months.  After that time, you are subject to arrest in those countries.  You cannot remain beyond whatever your permission to stay is. If I went to a country and stayed more than 6 months, I would be subect to arrest.  

Thousands come to the States every year to work, go to school, college, etc. and return home when they graduate or get hired for a job that is in demand and get to stay. There is a system in place.  Even if someone is here without permission, there are legal ways to apply to be here legally. (Some can get permission to stay.) Those situations are often covered with existing laws.  I can't go to a country and live without the permission of the country.   I have to ask permission and respect the laws of that country.  Or, I would be deported.  For example, during the earthquake in Haiti, the Haitians were given refugee status, and were given extended periods of time to remain here.  

If someone comes from a country where there is political prosecution, that is well-founded fear of death or serious bodily injury, and can argue that to immigration, they get to stay.  The US is a compassionate nation.  This whole issue that there is no path to allow refugees or others is just incorrect.  I have studied Immigration law and know that there are many classifications that give non-citizens the ability to come to the US and work or live here permanently.  Family re-unification is big, and very generous.  

But, the record keeping has become sloppy.  And people who are supposed to leave after 90 days (on a visitor visa for example) and from any country, who participates in this program, are often overstaying (breaking the law) when they could go home and re-apply to go to school or for a job and be legit.  The key is to stay out of trouble and not commit crimes while you are here. Things don't go well if you are an overstay and commit crimes.  And, rightly so.

We need to have border security just like every country as customs coming into their country where you show your passport because, even a trip to Canada requires a passport and you tell the guard at the border booth your reason for visiting and how long you will be there.  It is merely the orderly flow in and out of another country.  It applies equally to me if I go to Canada.  

Some here would brand a poster as a racist if they don't believe in open borders.  I do not because I believe in the process that brought my family here and because I know there are many paths to be in the States and the US gladly welcomes those who do.  The US welcomes people from many nations.  The State Department issues a monthly bulletin which gives the numbers of applications for immigration or work (non-immigrant status for a student or working or a multinational branch of a company for a finite number of years.) Those on that bulletin numbering system with applications in place have paid a fee, presented their documents, and are in queue to be admitted.  Each country is assigned a number of applications that will be processed each month.  Why should those hundreds of thousands of people in line not be admitted?  

And some terrorists have declared that they will (and have) come through the porous border to cause terror here.  That helps no one.  Those people are not refugees from Central America or Mexico.  They are ISIS operatives and have quite vocally declared they are here to cause terror.  McVeigh was a lone wolf.  ISIS inspired operatives are not lone wolves but take inspiration (and direction) from an ideology that is inconsistent with our free society and our Constitution, which is not perfect but looks pretty good compared to what some want imposed here.
Hope that helps explain my position.  

[Emily]

ISIS  and affiliates have declared a war on "Crusaders/Jews"  worldwide and have effectuated attacks in multiple countries by way of instructive video via social media with either bombs made from household materials, (like pressure cookers at the Boston Marathon) to avenge others (a broad group) and to impose their legal system from a radical sect going back centuries.  Comparing McVeigh to ISIS does not make sense to me.  These attacks are coming every day, sometimes twice a day.  

There is an ideology in conflict with our culture and practices.  We give women the right to vote, and self determine.  They don't ask permission of a man to do anything.  They are free.  Gay people are not thrown off buildings.  Those ideas clash with our laws.  There can be no conflict.  The US Constitution is the law of the land.  Period.  We don't follow the laws of another religion because we don't recognize the mixing of religion and law.  They are separate.  

Have you ever heard anyone argue that we should have more ISIS immigration??
This is weird.

The immigration issues are far different as they affect anyone who wants to come to this country.  You apply, pay a fee, show your documents, as anyone else who wants to become a citizen in any other country.  They vet their applicants and for example, most countries only let you stay 6 months.  After that time, you are subject to arrest in those countries.  You cannot remain beyond whatever your permission to stay is. If I went to a country and stayed more than 6 months, I would be subect to arrest.  

Thousands come to the States every year to work, go to school, college, etc. and return home when they graduate or get hired for a job that is in demand and get to stay. There is a system in place.  Even if someone is here without permission, there are legal ways to apply to be here legally. (Some can get permission to stay.) Those situations are often covered with existing laws.  I can't go to a country and live without the permission of the country.   I have to ask permission and respect the laws of that country.  Or, I would be deported.  For example, during the earthquake in Haiti, the Haitians were given refugee status, and were given extended periods of time to remain here.  

If someone comes from a country where there is political prosecution, that is well-founded fear of death or serious bodily injury, and can argue that to immigration, they get to stay.  The US is a compassionate nation.  This whole issue that there is no path to allow refugees or others is just incorrect.  I have studied Immigration law and know that there are many classifications that give non-citizens the ability to come to the US and work or live here permanently.  Family re-unification is big, and very generous.  

But, the record keeping has become sloppy.  And people who are supposed to leave after 90 days (on a visitor visa for example) and from any country, who participates in this program, are often overstaying (breaking the law) when they could go home and re-apply to go to school or for a job and be legit.  The key is to stay out of trouble and not commit crimes while you are here. Things don't go well if you are an overstay and commit crimes.  And, rightly so.

We need to have border security just like every country as customs coming into their country where you show your passport because, even a trip to Canada requires a passport and you tell the guard at the border booth your reason for visiting and how long you will be there.  It is merely the orderly flow in and out of another country.  It applies equally to me if I go to Canada.  

Some here would brand a poster as a racist if they don't believe in open borders.  I do not because I believe in the process that brought my family here and because I know there are many paths to be in the States and the US gladly welcomes those who do.  The US welcomes people from many nations.  The State Department issues a monthly bulletin which gives the numbers of applications for immigration or work (non-immigrant status for a student or working or a multinational branch of a company for a finite number of years.) Those on that bulletin numbering system with applications in place have paid a fee, presented their documents, and are in queue to be admitted.  Each country is assigned a number of applications that will be processed each month.  Why should those hundreds of thousands of people in line not be admitted?  

When my grandparents came, they showed up at Ellis Island, were entered in a book, then moved in with relatives in Ohio. After 5 years, they showed up in an office, signed something, and ta da! Americans.

The process today is very expensive and unjust, winnowing out exactly the kinds of people that built this country. And winnowing out people to our southern border who have been impoverished by our enrichment.

If your family came here more than 50 years ago, they had a much easier time immigrating than current immigrants. The "my family did it, they should too" argument is a false equivalence.

AND, US citizens live as illegal immigrants all over the world. Particularly in developing countries in which the living is cheap and economic and sexual exploitation are easy. In Central America, I met literally thousands of US "illegals". But as usual, what we expect from others, we don't expect to apply to ourselves.

And some terrorists have declared that they will (and have) come through the porous border to cause terror here.  That helps no one.  Those people are not refugees from Central America or Mexico.  They are ISIS operatives and have quite vocally declared they are here to cause terror.  McVeigh was a lone wolf.  ISIS inspired operatives are not lone wolves but take inspiration (and direction) from an ideology that is inconsistent with our free society and our Constitution, which is not perfect but looks pretty good compared to what some want imposed here.
Hope that helps explain my position.   

Timothy McVeigh was exactly like the Orlando shooter - inspired by an extreme right-wing movement.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Timothy McVeigh was exactly like the Orlando shooter - inspired by an extreme right-wing movement.

Ding!

[Emily]

Well, I just learned that Clinton is descended from Cubs fans, so that's over. Can't support that. Is Trump Yankees or Mets?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

[filledeplage]

ISIS  and affiliates have declared a war on "Crusaders/Jews"  worldwide and have effectuated attacks in multiple countries by way of instructive video via social media with either bombs made from household materials, (like pressure cookers at the Boston Marathon) to avenge others (a broad group) and to impose their legal system from a radical sect going back centuries.  Comparing McVeigh to ISIS does not make sense to me.  These attacks are coming every day, sometimes twice a day.  

There is an ideology in conflict with our culture and practices.  We give women the right to vote, and self determine.  They don't ask permission of a man to do anything.  They are free.  Gay people are not thrown off buildings.  Those ideas clash with our laws.  There can be no conflict.  The US Constitution is the law of the land.  Period.  We don't follow the laws of another religion because we don't recognize the mixing of religion and law.  They are separate.  

Have you ever heard anyone argue that we should have more ISIS immigration??  (Emily - as a result of porous borders, ISIS is infiltrating those borders.  Anyone going to declare allegiance to at immigration?  Seriously doubt it. They will claim political persecution like the Tsarnaevs
This is weird.

The immigration issues are far different as they affect anyone who wants to come to this country.  You apply, pay a fee, show your documents, as anyone else who wants to become a citizen in any other country.  They vet their applicants and for example, most countries only let you stay 6 months.  After that time, you are subject to arrest in those countries.  You cannot remain beyond whatever your permission to stay is. If I went to a country and stayed more than 6 months, I would be subect to arrest.  

Thousands come to the States every year to work, go to school, college, etc. and return home when they graduate or get hired for a job that is in demand and get to stay. There is a system in place.  Even if someone is here without permission, there are legal ways to apply to be here legally. (Some can get permission to stay.) Those situations are often covered with existing laws.  I can't go to a country and live without the permission of the country.   I have to ask permission and respect the laws of that country.  Or, I would be deported.  For example, during the earthquake in Haiti, the Haitians were given refugee status, and were given extended periods of time to remain here.  

If someone comes from a country where there is political prosecution, that is well-founded fear of death or serious bodily injury, and can argue that to immigration, they get to stay.  The US is a compassionate nation.  This whole issue that there is no path to allow refugees or others is just incorrect.  I have studied Immigration law and know that there are many classifications that give non-citizens the ability to come to the US and work or live here permanently.  Family re-unification is big, and very generous.  

But, the record keeping has become sloppy.  And people who are supposed to leave after 90 days (on a visitor visa for example) and from any country, who participates in this program, are often overstaying (breaking the law) when they could go home and re-apply to go to school or for a job and be legit.  The key is to stay out of trouble and not commit crimes while you are here. Things don't go well if you are an overstay and commit crimes.  And, rightly so.

We need to have border security just like every country as customs coming into their country where you show your passport because, even a trip to Canada requires a passport and you tell the guard at the border booth your reason for visiting and how long you will be there.  It is merely the orderly flow in and out of another country.  It applies equally to me if I go to Canada.  

Some here would brand a poster as a racist if they don't believe in open borders.  I do not because I believe in the process that brought my family here and because I know there are many paths to be in the States and the US gladly welcomes those who do.  The US welcomes people from many nations.  The State Department issues a monthly bulletin which gives the numbers of applications for immigration or work (non-immigrant status for a student or working or a multinational branch of a company for a finite number of years.) Those on that bulletin numbering system with applications in place have paid a fee, presented their documents, and are in queue to be admitted.  Each country is assigned a number of applications that will be processed each month.  Why should those hundreds of thousands of people in line not be admitted?  

When my grandparents came, they showed up at Ellis Island, were entered in a book, then moved in with relatives in Ohio. After 5 years, they showed up in an office, signed something, and ta da! Americans. (My father was in WWII - his parents came "on the boat" 20 years prior) They were quarantined, off the boat and spoke no English.  They had no family to join.  They were the first to leave the old country. 
 
The process today is very expensive and unjust, winnowing out exactly the kinds of people that built this country. And winnowing out people to our southern border who have been impoverished by our enrichment.  (There are costs to our country to administer this process. You think it is unjust.  Others consider the privilege worth an economic sacrifice.   Those who are classified as refugees, are exempt from much of the application expense.)

If your family came here more than 50 years ago, they had a much easier time immigrating than current immigrants. The "my family did it, they should too" argument is a false equivalence.  (No it is not a false equivalence.  There is a process in every country.  When in Rome...do as the Romans do.  And your family members already living here, likely served as "sponsors" for other members under family re-unification policies.  You perceive the process as unjust and connect it to what you perceive to be failed policies.  The policies may need to change.   

AND, US citizens live as illegal immigrants all over the world. Particularly in developing countries in which the living is cheap and economic and sexual exploitation are easy. In Central America, I met literally thousands of US "illegals". But as usual, what we expect from others, we don't expect to apply to ourselves.

(I cannot speak to Central America and what their process is to live "illegally" but that is not possible in Europe, for most cases. They may "look the other way" in Central America to enjoy the American dollar, but they don't in all other countries.  (I know of an American who "overstayed" in Russia.  He is being "detained.)  Apparently, he did not take timelines seriously.   

And some terrorists have declared that they will (and have) come through the porous border to cause terror here.  That helps no one.  Those people are not refugees from Central America or Mexico.  They are ISIS operatives and have quite vocally declared they are here to cause terror.  McVeigh was a lone wolf.  ISIS inspired operatives are not lone wolves but take inspiration (and direction) from an ideology that is inconsistent with our free society and our Constitution, which is not perfect but looks pretty good compared to what some want imposed here.
Hope that helps explain my position.   

Timothy McVeigh was exactly like the Orlando shooter - inspired by an extreme right-wing movement.  (I disagree with this, as Omar Mateen pledged his allegiance to ISIS.) When there is a pledge to ISIS, it ceases to be a mental health issue.  It is a crime of terrorism.  It is suppression of facts.  The left would love to write Mateen off as a nut job so they didn't have to deal with their nonfeasance with regard the terror problem that they largely deny.  And dismissive of actual terrorism, in the attempt to minimize the media and other scrutiny.

It is insulting to the citizens of this country who know terrorism when they see it. "Mateen was known to the FBI..." (from CNN article below) And Mcveigh was a Gulf Vet who was awarded a Bronze Star, honorably discharged, rejected for US Army Special Forces.  Seems he had underlying mental issues, likely missed by the military after he was ordered to "execute surrendering prisoners and to see the carnage on the road leaving Kuwait City after US troops routed the Iraqi army." (wiki)  I disagree. That is my prerogative.     

http://cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/index.html/
 

[Emily]

ISIS  and affiliates have declared a war on "Crusaders/Jews"  worldwide and have effectuated attacks in multiple countries by way of instructive video via social media with either bombs made from household materials, (like pressure cookers at the Boston Marathon) to avenge others (a broad group) and to impose their legal system from a radical sect going back centuries.  Comparing McVeigh to ISIS does not make sense to me.  These attacks are coming every day, sometimes twice a day.  

There is an ideology in conflict with our culture and practices.  We give women the right to vote, and self determine.  They don't ask permission of a man to do anything.  They are free.  Gay people are not thrown off buildings.  Those ideas clash with our laws.  There can be no conflict.  The US Constitution is the law of the land.  Period.  We don't follow the laws of another religion because we don't recognize the mixing of religion and law.  They are separate.  

Have you ever heard anyone argue that we should have more ISIS immigration??

(Emily - as a result of porous borders, ISIS is infiltrating those borders.  Anyone going to declare allegiance to at immigration?  Seriously doubt it. They will claim political persecution like the Tsarnaevs

OK. That was nonresponsive. I asked if you've ever heard anyone argue that we should have more ISIS immigration, because your above paragraphs seem to be trying to convince people that ISIS people would be inappropriate immigrants. I think everyone agrees, so I was wondering why you were bothering making the argument.

The immigration issues are far different as they affect anyone who wants to come to this country.  You apply, pay a fee, show your documents, as anyone else who wants to become a citizen in any other country.  They vet their applicants and for example, most countries only let you stay 6 months.  After that time, you are subject to arrest in those countries.  You cannot remain beyond whatever your permission to stay is. If I went to a country and stayed more than 6 months, I would be subect to arrest.  

Thousands come to the States every year to work, go to school, college, etc. and return home when they graduate or get hired for a job that is in demand and get to stay. There is a system in place.  Even if someone is here without permission, there are legal ways to apply to be here legally. (Some can get permission to stay.) Those situations are often covered with existing laws.  I can't go to a country and live without the permission of the country.   I have to ask permission and respect the laws of that country.  Or, I would be deported.  For example, during the earthquake in Haiti, the Haitians were given refugee status, and were given extended periods of time to remain here.  

If someone comes from a country where there is political prosecution, that is well-founded fear of death or serious bodily injury, and can argue that to immigration, they get to stay.  The US is a compassionate nation.  This whole issue that there is no path to allow refugees or others is just incorrect.  I have studied Immigration law and know that there are many classifications that give non-citizens the ability to come to the US and work or live here permanently.  Family re-unification is big, and very generous.  

But, the record keeping has become sloppy.  And people who are supposed to leave after 90 days (on a visitor visa for example) and from any country, who participates in this program, are often overstaying (breaking the law) when they could go home and re-apply to go to school or for a job and be legit.  The key is to stay out of trouble and not commit crimes while you are here. Things don't go well if you are an overstay and commit crimes.  And, rightly so.

We need to have border security just like every country as customs coming into their country where you show your passport because, even a trip to Canada requires a passport and you tell the guard at the border booth your reason for visiting and how long you will be there.  It is merely the orderly flow in and out of another country.  It applies equally to me if I go to Canada.  

Some here would brand a poster as a racist if they don't believe in open borders.  I do not because I believe in the process that brought my family here and because I know there are many paths to be in the States and the US gladly welcomes those who do.  The US welcomes people from many nations.  The State Department issues a monthly bulletin which gives the numbers of applications for immigration or work (non-immigrant status for a student or working or a multinational branch of a company for a finite number of years.) Those on that bulletin numbering system with applications in place have paid a fee, presented their documents, and are in queue to be admitted.  Each country is assigned a number of applications that will be processed each month.  Why should those hundreds of thousands of people in line not be admitted?  

When my grandparents came, they showed up at Ellis Island, were entered in a book, then moved in with relatives in Ohio. After 5 years, they showed up in an office, signed something, and ta da! Americans.

(My father was in WWII - his parents came "on the boat" 20 years prior) They were quarantined, off the boat and spoke no English.  They had no family to join.  They were the first to leave the old country.  

So your parents had a much easier immigration process. So you are in no position to be all lecturesome at other people about "following the rules" because the rules were vastly easier when your parents came.
 

The process today is very expensive and unjust, winnowing out exactly the kinds of people that built this country. And winnowing out people to our southern border who have been impoverished by our enrichment.  (There are costs to our country to administer this process. You think it is unjust.  Others consider the privilege worth an economic sacrifice.   Those who are classified as refugees, are exempt from much of the application expense.)


If your family came here more than 50 years ago, they had a much easier time immigrating than current immigrants. The "my family did it, they should too" argument is a false equivalence.  (No it is not a false equivalence.  There is a process in every country.  When in Rome...do as the Romans do.  

And your family members already living here, likely served as "sponsors" for other members under family re-unification policies.

nope.

You perceive the process as unjust and connect it to what you perceive to be failed policies.  The policies may need to change.    

AND, US citizens live as illegal immigrants all over the world. Particularly in developing countries in which the living is cheap and economic and sexual exploitation are easy. In Central America, I met literally thousands of US "illegals". But as usual, what we expect from others, we don't expect to apply to ourselves.

(I cannot speak to Central America and what their process is to live "illegally" but that is not possible in Europe, for most cases.

They may "look the other way" in Central America to enjoy the American dollar, but they don't in all other countries.  (I know of an American who "overstayed" in Russia.  He is being "detained.)  Apparently, he did not take timelines seriously.  

You are absolutely incorrect. First, your assumption about Central America is incorrect and offensive in the extreme. I find it repulsive that you assume Central American governments are happy to prostitute their children to sex tourists in exchange for your precious dollar. What a disgusting thing to say. They don't have resources to effectively enforce immigration policy. Nor to stop the sexual exploitation of their teenaged and younger children by US "expats".  In the town I lived in, the whole police force couldn't afford a single car and the Norte Americano "illegals" tended to live on properties out of town, safe and sound with their purchased children. And there was a lot of anger in town about it and in one incident a mother was shot trying to get her child back from a US "illegal". Your assumption of superiority is infuriating to me.
Second, your opposite assumptions about "all other countries" are incorrect and ratchet up the offensiveness of your assumptions about Central America. I've had PLENTY of friends who have lived in Europe for YEARS working in under-the-table au pair or waitering jobs without citizenship or active Visas.

And some terrorists have declared that they will (and have) come through the porous border to cause terror here.  That helps no one.  Those people are not refugees from Central America or Mexico.  They are ISIS operatives and have quite vocally declared they are here to cause terror.  McVeigh was a lone wolf.  ISIS inspired operatives are not lone wolves but take inspiration (and direction) from an ideology that is inconsistent with our free society and our Constitution, which is not perfect but looks pretty good compared to what some want imposed here.
Hope that helps explain my position.  

Timothy McVeigh was exactly like the Orlando shooter - inspired by an extreme right-wing movement.  (I disagree with this, as Omar Mateen pledged his allegiance to ISIS.) When there is a pledge to ISIS, it ceases to be a mental health issue.  It is a crime of terrorism.  It is suppression of facts.  The left would love to write Mateen off as a nut job so they didn't have to deal with their nonfeasance with regard the terror problem that they largely deny.  And dismissive of actual terrorism, in the attempt to minimize the media and other scrutiny.

It is insulting to the citizens of this country who know terrorism when they see it. "Mateen was known to the FBI..." (from CNN article below) And Mcveigh was a Gulf Vet who was awarded a Bronze Star, honorably discharged, rejected for US Army Special Forces.  Seems he had underlying mental issues, likely missed by the military after he was ordered to "execute surrendering prisoners and to see the carnage on the road leaving Kuwait City after US troops routed the Iraqi army." (wiki)  I disagree. That is my prerogative.    

http://cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/index.html/
  

Wow. American of central Asian descent, with no solid links to political organizations, but has a history of extreme behaviors and statements commits mass murder name checking an extremist group: TERRORIST
American of European descent with no known history of mental illness and found to not suffer from mental illness but explained very explicitly the political reasons he committed mass murder, after having a very close, extended affiliation with an extremist group: NOT a TERRORIST.
Amazing.

[filledeplage]

Emily - First, breaking apart a post to parse it is not a formula I respond to.

If you are a Central American scholar, bravo. I get that you are passionate about the situation.  We are not all dummies in the room. Half of my 40+ year old Master's is in Latin American/Caribbean Culture studies.  And my position is informed both by Immigration Law and decades long teaching an multi-lingual immigrant community.  There is a balance to be found as between the two to find a way to get services to those in need and the enforcement of our immigration law structure. And from being in the Army, you know that serving in the US military is an enhancement to becoming a citizen.     

The problem is a serious one. And calling me incorrect about a position, is inappropriate.  Please don't extrapolate and create a scenario for sex trading or human trafficking when none was clearly meant. Don't muddy the waters.  Plenty have overstayed in the States as au pairs and in the service industry in the US.  It goes both ways.  Those underground industries are organized, to a great degree by church communities and non-profits.  I was speaking directly about ISIS infiltration and you did not respond to that.  ISIS operatives masquerading as C.A. refugees to gain entry to cause harm to this country, is the issue, which became diverted to the human trafficking issue when it was not even alluded to.   

You mentioned those who stay in Central America "illegally" and my frame-of-reference was those who purchase and live in a beach community for retirement, cheaper than living in the States and who spend their US retirement dollars there.  It is no different from those retirement areas in warm climates who have six month snowbirds.  We were on a different wave length. Expats who are retired, living offshore is a big industry.  I guess it is a generation thing.  You are way off with your misguided aggressive rant. Human trafficking is one of the prime reasons to be given residency status in the US.  So is FMG.  We have that covered in the US.  Don't suggest otherwise. Political persecution is another.

They got it wrong with the Tsarnaevs who claimed political persecution and were admitted under that pretext of the father, Anzor who claimed he feared for his life in Chechnya. Political asylum - abused.  The FBI says they had red flags.  Too little; too late. It is incompetence. They should have been deported and were not.   Result of the incompetence = pressure cooker bombs at The Boston Marathon (killing 5 - including a cop - not originally included, and who died within a year of the bombing.)  How to make a bomb in the kitchen of your mom! 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/us/tamerlan-tsarnaevs-citizenship-held-up-by-homeland-security.html?_r=0   

This discussion is about what the framework of admitting people to the States and I asked if you had a solution and what that would look like, for what you think would be a fair and balanced solution. The Immigration and Nationality Act - USCIS was enacted in 1952, the basic body of immigration law.   

No, there is no box-to-check for ISIS immigration. Many masquerade under another pretext.  Immigration did not check the non-existent address of the wife of the San Bernadino massacre. The US is not doing it's job.  The incompetence is indefensible. 

You are looking for solid links to an extremist background?  The FBI has pulled the available video from that Orlando massacre.  Curious; yes. Transparent; no.  Yes, of course he was a terrorist. 

And are you suggesting that Omar Mateen's father (who had a TV show denouncing the US and claimed to be the leader [the President, in fact] of Afghanistan,) did not have an Anti-American agenda? Omar Mateen pledged allegiance to ISIS. He is not a terrorist?  Daddy praises the Taliban ( who throw gays off the tallest buildings) and the son shoots up a predominantly LGBT nightclub and he is not driven by an ideology that is inconsistent with the US Constitution?  I strongly disagree.  When you come here and want to stay, you pledge allegiance to the US.  [Incidentally, my grandparents had to renounce their original citizenship and pledge allegiance to the US.]  Some think that it is no longer necessary. 

"Our brothers in Waziristan, our warrior brothers in Taliban movement..." - Seddique Mateen. 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/father-omar-mateen-hosts-bizarre-anti-us-talk-show-article-1.2670939   

Your grandparents had "continuous presence" in the US for 5 years.  They had relatives who were assimilated in the community and who were likely their "sponsors" under "family re-unification."  Ta-dah. They got in under family re-unification. Under the law.  There was a time, when, "if you could get here, (to the US) you could stay." The laws have changed that.  We are a nation of laws. Your suggestion is that people come illegally.  There are plenty of non-profits whose work is in immigration who draft petitions for political refugees, victims of FMG, etc.

When there are undocumented children in a US school system, we feed, house (via social services) and we educate them, no questions asked. 

 

[Emily]

Emily - First, breaking apart a post to parse it is not a formula I respond to.


You mentioned those who stay in Central America "illegally" and my frame-of-reference was those who purchase and live in a beach community for retirement, cheaper than living in the States and who spend their US retirement dollars there.  It is no different from those retirement areas in warm climates who have six month snowbirds.  We were on a different wave length. Expats who are retired, living offshore is a big industry.  I guess it is a generation thing.  You are way off with your misguided aggressive rant. Human trafficking is one of the prime reasons to be given residency status in the US.  So is FMG.  We have that covered in the US.  Don't suggest otherwise. Political persecution is another.

And I'm telling you, again, you're incorrect. Those cute little retirees? They purchase local girls. For sex. It IS different from retirees in Arizona or Florida, though we do have sex trafficking in the US. The retirees in Central America who don't purchase girls for sex, know someone who did. And they hang out with him in bars every single night. And they are complicit in their silence and in their providing social support. And they know that the person, that sweet little retiree, they hang out with in the bar has purchased a child.
And I don't mean 'purchase' as in hire them for an hour. I mean buy the girl. Take her home. She lives with you now. She is yours until you decide to dump her because she's not a kid anymore. (or because she got pregnant. You'd be amazed at the standards in those cute retiree expat communities. If he decides to help support his child with the little local girl, until he's bored, he is "so generous" "isn't he nice?" "he's even helping teach them to read". It's quite a bit like US Slavery, how a man is distanced from his child if the child is also the child of a slave.)
I know "living offshore" is a big industry. It's the industry of US illegals exploiting the impoverished economically and sexually.
YOU are way off with your idea that because Central Americans are brown and poor, they tacitly must agree to this.  
And by the way, the mother who was shot trying to get her girl back, was shot by a retiree. A sweet little "expat" who had purchased a 13 year old girl from her father, for $100. When her mother, distraught, went to try to get her back, he shot her. You know, US Americans and their guns. She died.
And they are living there illegally. They are "illegals" "rapists" "murderers" "criminals". That's who US Americans living in Central America are, in the majority.

Oh and regarding your church groups or whomever who organize illegal residency in Europe, I guess you think illegal residency is OK if it's organized by an group that has your social approval. Do you even see your double standard here? How you are judging US Americans living illegally abroad on a totally different level than your judgment of people living illegally in the US.

Your grandparents had "continuous presence" in the US for 5 years.  They had relatives who were assimilated in the community and who were likely their "sponsors" under "family re-unification."

Once again, nope. Happily, my ancestors all came to the US before people started to pull the white-people ladder up behind them. Of course, there have always been additional barriers to people of color.

You are looking for solid links to an extremist background?  The FBI has pulled the available video from that Orlando massacre.  Curious; yes. Transparent; no.  Yes, of course he was a terrorist.  

I'm not so much questioning terming Mateen a terrorist but I think people are willing to label Muslims terrorists much too quickly and with too little evidence.
I was more boggling at the hypocrisy of trying to claim McVeigh, who was explicit and detailed about his political motivations, not a terrorist.



The solution is to get US Americans to settle down with all the hateful hyperbole about non-white non-Christians.


 

[SenorPotatoHead]

Two words:  JILL STEIN.

[bachelorofbullets]

When my grandparents came, they showed up at Ellis Island, were entered in a book, then moved in with relatives in Ohio. After 5 years, they showed up in an office, signed something, and ta da! Americans.

The process today is very expensive and unjust, winnowing out exactly the kinds of people that built this country. And winnowing out people to our southern border who have been impoverished by our enrichment.

If your family came here more than 50 years ago, they had a much easier time immigrating than current immigrants. The "my family did it, they should too" argument is a false equivalence.

AND, US citizens live as illegal immigrants all over the world. Particularly in developing countries in which the living is cheap and economic and sexual exploitation are easy. In Central America, I met literally thousands of US "illegals". But as usual, what we expect from others, we don't expect to apply to ourselves.

As it should be Emily.  Immigrants were needed at that time, The U.S. did not have a big enough labor force in manufacturing and construction.  Today, things are different.  We simply don't need foreign labor anymore, we have a higher percentage of unemployed or underemployed people.  The only reason there are so many H1B Visas is because the U.S. based corporations save money by hiring them.  Even Disney is in on it:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/25/technology/disney-h1b-workers/

U.S. corporations have been acting like American traitors for years now.  Our government does little to stop them.  It's the greatest injustice I can think of, and why I will remain anti-corporate for the rest of my life.  I'd like nothing better than to see them all prosecuted.



  

[filledeplage]

Emily - first, don't assume everyone who retires to a beach community or is a expat is a predatory animal.  That is guilty before innocent. Does it happen? It happens at all strata of society in every country and those human rights violations are not being prosecuted appropriately as "crimes against humanity" in The Hague.  Human trafficking is the worst and I am not disagreeing about that.  There is a path to residency in the US, particularly under VAWA. [Violence Against Women Act.]  It allows for temporary visas to be issued under The Act.  
 
Second, I am well aware some of those issues from my Master's work and hundreds of immigrant students. They are not particular to Central America. There is plenty of human trafficking in the States. It was not high on the priority list until awareness has been raised by advocacy groups and law school amicus briefs which have been given significant coverage and VAWA (a US law) extends to Immigration to grant status.  It is a partial humanitarian solution to the problem.  

http:sites.law.lsu.edu/amicus-curiae/tag/human-trafficking/

Third, get off the pot with your "white privilege" PC theory. Out of Theodore W. Allen in the 60's. Another Marxist theory. It stokes and creates division. And it is racist and by the way, it is old. It is regressive.  You don't know me or my DNA. If you want to point to a particular instance, link some info so we can all share and learn, from it rather than rant.  I look at things in a racially-neutral light.  

Fourth, Catholic Charities does a great deal of organized immigration work and advocacy.  Other local groups, which I never said I "approved of," only am "aware of their existences," as they assist immigrants with immigration status upgrades.

Fifth, the "white people ladder" - more racist talk.  My ancestors came to the States, dirt poor, hung together as a family and took the lowest level jobs, served in the military, and worked their way up. Both sides were discriminated against, for nationality, and in some instance for religion.  

It is not one's color. It is one's situation of being trafficked, regardless of race. Those girls are being trafficked for sex. Boys are trafficked. For sex. Not as a result of race.    

Six, I am not judging US citizens living as expats. Cute little retirees?  Age-ist.  Most have to live in the States for a certain time every year, at least for tax purposes.  And, don't accuse me of having a double standard. I believe in a legal "standard."  I believe in the law.  It does not make me wrong.  

You're telling me I'm "incorrect, again?"  I don't think so.  

Just say you don't agree; that works.    

[filledeplage]

Two words:  JILL STEIN.

That could be the curveball in this race. Jill Stein.  Wow.

After Bernie got the shaft, hundreds left the venue and it was not reported.  Some guy recorded, uploaded, commented, and now people are being bussed in to fill those seats left empty by Bernie's delegates. Nomiki Konst, a Sanders supporter and contributor to Fox, also reported seeing people bussed in to fill the seats.  In politics it is called "wallpaper."

https://you.tu.be/zGRo1mH2_8w

 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Two words:  JILL STEIN.

That's where my vote is going.

If it was up to me , it'd be her vs Johnson, and I'd be happy either way.

[Emily]

When my grandparents came, they showed up at Ellis Island, were entered in a book, then moved in with relatives in Ohio. After 5 years, they showed up in an office, signed something, and ta da! Americans.

The process today is very expensive and unjust, winnowing out exactly the kinds of people that built this country. And winnowing out people to our southern border who have been impoverished by our enrichment.

If your family came here more than 50 years ago, they had a much easier time immigrating than current immigrants. The "my family did it, they should too" argument is a false equivalence.

AND, US citizens live as illegal immigrants all over the world. Particularly in developing countries in which the living is cheap and economic and sexual exploitation are easy. In Central America, I met literally thousands of US "illegals". But as usual, what we expect from others, we don't expect to apply to ourselves.

As it should be Emily.  Immigrants were needed at that time, The U.S. did not have a big enough labor force in manufacturing and construction.  Today, things are different.  We simply don't need foreign labor anymore, we have a higher percentage of unemployed or underemployed people.  The only reason there are so many H1B Visas is because the U.S. based corporations save money by hiring them.  Even Disney is in on it:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/25/technology/disney-h1b-workers/

U.S. corporations have been acting like American traitors for years now.  Our government does little to stop them.  It's the greatest injustice I can think of, and why I will remain anti-corporate for the rest of my life.  I'd like nothing better than to see them all prosecuted.



  

The wealth of the United States has continued to rise. What's different is the distribution of that wealth. Income inequality is the problem there, not immigration.
Edit - I'm always too ready to follow people down a tangent. My point was that the argument that 'my ancestors did it, so should they' is bogus, because your (and I don't mean you, BoB, I mean whoever's making that argument) your ancestors didn't do it. They followed a differ t, easier path. So, whether or not we need more immigrants or what our policy should be was not my point. My point was that that specific argument is bogus.

[Emily]

Two words:  JILL STEIN.

That could be the curveball in this race. Jill Stein.  Wow.

After Bernie got the shaft, hundreds left the venue and it was not reported.  Some guy recorded, uploaded, commented, and now people are being bussed in to fill those seats left empty by Bernie's delegates. Nomiki Konst, a Sanders supporter and contributor to Fox, also reported seeing people bussed in to fill the seats.  In politics it is called "wallpaper."

https://you.tu.be/zGRo1mH2_8w

 

That video was made in the down time after the nomination and before the evening events. Dinner time. Look at the videos of the evening speeches. The place was packed.

[Emily]

Emily - first, don't assume everyone who retires to a beach community or is a expat is a predatory animal.  That is guilty before innocent. Does it happen? It happens at all strata of society in every country and those human rights violations are not being prosecuted appropriately as "crimes against humanity" in The Hague.  Human trafficking is the worst and I am not disagreeing about that.  There is a path to residency in the US, particularly under VAWA. [Violence Against Women Act.]  It allows for temporary visas to be issued under The Act.  
 
Second, I am well aware some of those issues from my Master's work and hundreds of immigrant students. They are not particular to Central America. There is plenty of human trafficking in the States. It was not high on the priority list until awareness has been raised by advocacy groups and law school amicus briefs which have been given significant coverage and VAWA (a US law) extends to Immigration to grant status.  It is a partial humanitarian solution to the problem.  

http:sites.law.lsu.edu/amicus-curiae/tag/human-trafficking/

Third, get off the pot with your "white privilege" PC theory. Out of Theodore W. Allen in the 60's. Another Marxist theory. It stokes and creates division. And it is racist and by the way, it is old. It is regressive.  You don't know me or my DNA. If you want to point to a particular instance, link some info so we can all share and learn, from it rather than rant.  I look at things in a racially-neutral light.  

Fourth, Catholic Charities does a great deal of organized immigration work and advocacy.  Other local groups, which I never said I "approved of," only am "aware of their existences," as they assist immigrants with immigration status upgrades.

Fifth, the "white people ladder" - more racist talk.  My ancestors came to the States, dirt poor, hung together as a family and took the lowest level jobs, served in the military, and worked their way up. Both sides were discriminated against, for nationality, and in some instance for religion.  

It is not one's color. It is one's situation of being trafficked, regardless of race. Those girls are being trafficked for sex. Boys are trafficked. For sex. Not as a result of race.    

Six, I am not judging US citizens living as expats. Cute little retirees?  Age-ist.  Most have to live in the States for a certain time every year, at least for tax purposes.  And, don't accuse me of having a double standard. I believe in a legal "standard."  I believe in the law.  It does not make me wrong.  

You're telling me I'm "incorrect, again?"  I don't think so.  

Just say you don't agree; that works.    

As I said, there are people not engaged in pedophilic slavery, but if you live there, and you're from the US, you know someone who is. And if you don't accept that socially, you're outcaste from the expat community. It's the way it is. All of your retirees are engaging and facilitate a pedophilic slave culture.
And to the point, once again, these are "illegals" living in their country. So while you are willing to support very broad negative pictures, and a dehumanizing label, for illegal residents in the US, if it's US Americans living illegally in other countries, suddenly they're retirees in a beach community or church-sponsored whatever. And you object to generalizing about them?? And you talk about guilt before innocence about them??? Have a look at your comments above about immigrants to the US.


For your third point, now it's divisive to point out that US Americans are predatory illegal immigrants elsewhere while they complain about predatory illegal immigrants at home? Divisive are racism and the amazing double standards you are willing to apply to white terrorist vs non-white terrorists and US Citizens living illegally elsewhere vs. non US citizens living in the US.  Pointing out racism and those double standards may feel divisive to you, but it's not the source of the division.

There was a white people ladder. Do you deny that? Do you deny that non-white people were often barred from immigrating when there were no quotas on white people?

And once again, in your sixth point you exhibit your double standard. You are "not judging US citizens living as expats" who are living illegally in various countries, but you are judging non-US citizens living as expats here. When's the last time you referred to people living illegally in the US as expats? I'm going to guess never. You sure do judge, and you judge with a double standard.

[filledeplage]

Two words:  JILL STEIN.

That could be the curveball in this race. Jill Stein.  Wow.

After Bernie got the shaft, hundreds left the venue and it was not reported.  Some guy recorded, uploaded, commented, and now people are being bussed in to fill those seats left empty by Bernie's delegates. Nomiki Konst, a Sanders supporter and contributor to Fox, also reported seeing people bussed in to fill the seats.  In politics it is called "wallpaper."

https://you.tu.be/zGRo1mH2_8w

 

That video was made in the down time after the nomination and before the evening events. Dinner time. Look at the videos of the evening speeches. The place was packed.

http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/2016/07/26/87594288/

Delegates walk out of DNC in protest.

[Emily]

Two words:  JILL STEIN.

That could be the curveball in this race. Jill Stein.  Wow.

After Bernie got the shaft, hundreds left the venue and it was not reported.  Some guy recorded, uploaded, commented, and now people are being bussed in to fill those seats left empty by Bernie's delegates. Nomiki Konst, a Sanders supporter and contributor to Fox, also reported seeing people bussed in to fill the seats.  In politics it is called "wallpaper."

https://you.tu.be/zGRo1mH2_8w

 

That video was made in the down time after the nomination and before the evening events. Dinner time. Look at the videos of the evening speeches. The place was packed.

http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/2016/07/26/87594288/

Delegates walk out of DNC in protest.

Yup. A few did. I didn't deny it. I was just pointing out that you were spreading a dishonest video that shows huge numbers of empty seats at dinner time claiming that that represents the walk out. But, again, if you look at videos from later in the evening, the place is full. So your first video is a gross exaggeration of the magnitude of the walk out.

[filledeplage]

Emily - first, don't assume everyone who retires to a beach community or is a expat is a predatory animal.  That is guilty before innocent. Does it happen? It happens at all strata of society in every country and those human rights violations are not being prosecuted appropriately as "crimes against humanity" in The Hague.  Human trafficking is the worst and I am not disagreeing about that.  There is a path to residency in the US, particularly under VAWA. [Violence Against Women Act.]  It allows for temporary visas to be issued under The Act.  
 
Second, I am well aware some of those issues from my Master's work and hundreds of immigrant students. They are not particular to Central America. There is plenty of human trafficking in the States. It was not high on the priority list until awareness has been raised by advocacy groups and law school amicus briefs which have been given significant coverage and VAWA (a US law) extends to Immigration to grant status.  It is a partial humanitarian solution to the problem.  

http:sites.law.lsu.edu/amicus-curiae/tag/human-trafficking/

Third, get off the pot with your "white privilege" PC theory. Out of Theodore W. Allen in the 60's. Another Marxist theory. It stokes and creates division. And it is racist and by the way, it is old. It is regressive.  You don't know me or my DNA. If you want to point to a particular instance, link some info so we can all share and learn, from it rather than rant.  I look at things in a racially-neutral light.  

Fourth, Catholic Charities does a great deal of organized immigration work and advocacy.  Other local groups, which I never said I "approved of," only am "aware of their existences," as they assist immigrants with immigration status upgrades.

Fifth, the "white people ladder" - more racist talk.  My ancestors came to the States, dirt poor, hung together as a family and took the lowest level jobs, served in the military, and worked their way up. Both sides were discriminated against, for nationality, and in some instance for religion.  

It is not one's color. It is one's situation of being trafficked, regardless of race. Those girls are being trafficked for sex. Boys are trafficked. For sex. Not as a result of race.    

Six, I am not judging US citizens living as expats. Cute little retirees?  Age-ist.  Most have to live in the States for a certain time every year, at least for tax purposes.  And, don't accuse me of having a double standard. I believe in a legal "standard."  I believe in the law.  It does not make me wrong.  

You're telling me I'm "incorrect, again?"  I don't think so.  

Just say you don't agree; that works.    

As I said, there are people not engaged in pedophilic slavery, but if you live there, and you're from the US, you know someone who is. And if you don't accept that socially, you're outcaste from the expat community. It's the way it is. All of your retirees are engaging and facilitate a pedophilic slave culture.
And to the point, once again, these are "illegals" living in their country. So while you are willing to support very broad negative pictures, and a dehumanizing label, for illegal residents in the US, if it's US Americans living illegally in other countries, suddenly they're retirees in a beach community or church-sponsored whatever. And you object to generalizing about them?? And you talk about guilt before innocence about them??? Have a look at your comments above about immigrants to the US.


For your third point, now it's divisive to point out that US Americans are predatory illegal immigrants elsewhere while they complain about predatory illegal immigrants at home? Divisive are racism and the amazing double standards you are willing to apply to white terrorist vs non-white terrorists and US Citizens living illegally elsewhere vs. non US citizens living in the US.  Pointing out racism and those double standards may feel divisive to you, but it's not the source of the division.

There was a white people ladder. Do you deny that? Do you deny that non-white people were often barred from immigrating when there were no quotas on white people?

And once again, in your sixth point you exhibit your double standard. You are "not judging US citizens living as expats" who are living illegally in various countries, but you are judging non-US citizens living as expats here. When's the last time you referred to people living illegally in the US as expats? I'm going to guess never. You sure do judge, and you judge with a double standard.

Emily - you are addressing someone who filed many petitions to the social service authorities for suspected sexual abuse among my students.  The concept is not lost on me.  

"All of your retirees are engaging and facilitate a pedophilic slave culture." - What kind of an over-broad statement is that?  Not everyone living abroad is living there illegally.  Many hold dual citizenships. Are there networks in C.A. who engage in human trafficking? Is that news? This does not require just a US response.  It requires a global response and The Hague to take these cases.  JMHP

It seems that you do not support vetting those who come into the country, including those who carry potential diseases that your own child could pick up. Are you aware that there are cases of TB that are active, and carried into the country? Vermont has been noted.    

There were doctors at Ellis Island who examined (TB was a biggie) everyone for communicable disease.  It is the duty of the country to keep its citizens healthy.  There is a legitimate government interest in vetting people coming into this country and why many countries which have similar vaccine schedules are part of the program.  This is just common sense.

http://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/law-regs/vaccination-immigration/revised-vaccination-immigration-faq.html

What does skin tone have to do with ideology that conflicts with the Constitution? The race card is inappropriate.  

You have no idea what I support. You don't know me.  De-humanizing conditions?  Yes, I object to the generalization.

A white-people step ladder?  Seriously?  The GI Bill was my father's path to college, grad school and post-grad. That is privilege?  Learning English in the street because his parents were only learning English in order to assimilate and be Americans?  Are you kidding me?  Where is the privilege?  

My other grandmother raising 6 kids as a widow of a vet?  Privilege?  Seriously.  This is political rhetoric from the DNC playbook. Is this a guilt-trip? I am not buying into it.  I saw those losers like Bill Ayers (terrorist) and company, attempt to disrupt society in the 60's and 70's.  It is old wine in new bottles.    

Double standard? Because I believe that potential immigrants need to follow the process that is in place? What would you substitute or propose for the process?  I have asked no fewer than 3 times.  Our difference is that I believe in a legal uniform standard; one with which you don't agree.

(A double standard is coming out of the DNC, by DWS who screwed Bernie Sanders, and whose position is to be neutral during the campaign.)  

And, I hope you have seen the Clinton cash movie.  It is a real eye-opener.  

And, 235 days since Hillary had a news conference.  Why not?

[SMiLE Brian]

I think Trump asking his Russian handlers to hack Hillary is going way too far. He is the type of guy that would pull out of NATO in exchange for a Trump tower in Moscow.

[filledeplage]

Two words:  JILL STEIN.

That could be the curveball in this race. Jill Stein.  Wow.

After Bernie got the shaft, hundreds left the venue and it was not reported.  Some guy recorded, uploaded, commented, and now people are being bussed in to fill those seats left empty by Bernie's delegates. Nomiki Konst, a Sanders supporter and contributor to Fox, also reported seeing people bussed in to fill the seats.  In politics it is called "wallpaper."

https://you.tu.be/zGRo1mH2_8w

 

That video was made in the down time after the nomination and before the evening events. Dinner time. Look at the videos of the evening speeches. The place was packed.

http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/2016/07/26/87594288/

Delegates walk out of DNC in protest.

Yup. A few did. I didn't deny it. I was just pointing out that you were spreading a dishonest video that shows huge numbers of empty seats at dinner time claiming that that represents the walk out. But, again, if you look at videos from later in the evening, the place is full. So your first video is a gross exaggeration of the magnitude of the walk out.

No it is not dishonest.  It is not a gross exaggeration. In this matter, the camera does not lie, nor does the Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/occupy-wall-st/dnc-walkout-qa/1186764278058001

Russia Today

https://www.rt.com/usa/353468-sanders-delegates-walk-out-dnc/

Dayton Daily News

http://www.daytondailynews.com/videos/news/dnc-bernie-supporters-walkout/vDq2dw/

The Daily Beast

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/07/26/bernie-supporters-walk-out-on-dnc.html?via=mobile&source-copyurl

Hillary Campaign Plans to shush Berniacs During Vote

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/201/07/26/hillary-campaign-plans-to-control-berniacs-during-vote.html

And, I disagree that the "dinner bell" caused the exodus.  

This was wholly-orchestrated.

Bill gave a nice folksy speech last night.  Even he may not be able to rescue her.  (reminds me of a song - "Rescue me...")  

[filledeplage]

I think Trump asking his Russian handlers to hack Hillary is going way too far. He is the type of guy that would pull out of NATO in exchange for a Trump tower in Moscow.

Hey SB - Happy belated Birthday!

Maybe the Russians can find the deleted emails? 

Trump has handlers in Russia?