Campaign 2016

[Emily]

yes, it's semantic manipulation and an under-handed debate tactic to take someone's statement using 'a lot' and twist it to 'all'.
Why would anyone with self-respect go on O'Reilly's ridiculous show and why is that relevant to any of the above topics? You are a master of finagling.

Emily -  Fox is the highest rated news outlet. I find it intolerant to exclude a news outlet to understand how others think and where their point of view comes from.

They have every political party on to give opposing viewpoints to be aired. They are treated respectfully.  

But, really unfortunate that there is a resort to insult. We can disagree without being disagreeable.

Ratings are not important for understanding the issues and O'Reilly is not news. I can respectfully disagree with those who are honest, not bigoted, or are not motivated primarily be greed.

It has nothing to do with ratings.  It is being informed from both conservative and liberal and foreign news sources. 

O'Reilly is news - you may not prefer his program, or some of the others such as Greta Van Sustern, who was on CNN for years, but they have bona fide journalistic credentials. 

It is disrespect to dismiss the source out of hand.  Often, I notice the other networks don't carry stories reported on fox, for several days.  I like my news sources, first. And not leftovers, three days later.

If it has nothing to do with ratings, why did you bring up ratings?
O'Reilly is not news. It's commentary.
There are qualitative differences among news sources. You seem to choose those of low quality for the most part. Low quality sources haven't earned my respect.
Considering that your primary interest is in gossipmongering, I can see why speed would be of tantamount importance. You want to spread the lies before the truth can catch up.

It may be a conservative point of view that you consider intolerable.  On the night of the Bataclan, Geraldo was on-line, live with his daughter and she shared what was going on.  He is in Orlando, interviewing many of the Hispanic LGBT and families.  I happen to consider that invaluable and from his perspective as a Latino lawyer/journalist.  In excluding one source - a whole dimension can be missed.  

You might want to keep your insults in check, Emily.  I am not the first person whom you have insulted on this forum.  And don't accuse me of speading lies.  I am free to post on this BB/BW forum where I have been a lurker/poster for 10 years so long as I conform my conduct to the rules of the forum.  I believe you may be in violation with your continuous insults.  

I can have respect for conservatives who are not coming from a place of bigotry, greed or lies.
You are free to post. And I am free to point out lies and dishonest manipulations when someone posts them, which is all I have done.

Emily - It is your perception and when others do not agree with you, they are bigots.  That is unacceptable.

You are manipulating my language as you have before and as you did with Clinton's regarding coal.
I did not say 'when others disagree with me they are bigots.' I did say that I disagree with bigots. Too bad you can't say the same.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

CSM - I have fr2/ TV5 Monde on a lot to have a different news source and for the film and music.  I guess my answer is the strong alliance between the US and France.

How news is vetted, in terms of what is reported, is indeed baffling.  

You seem to be a specialist in this area.  Maybe you could start a thread?

Strong alliance or not, it is sheer hypocrisy and shameless opportunism to pretend to be standing against deplorable terrorism while simultaneously supporting it and carrying out. In my view, one should fully oppose it but that has never been the position taken by powerful states. And by the way, it is not my position that the United States didn't do this at the time. Indeed, in my view, they committed fully to this hypocritical position.

I don't believe I'll start a thread any time soon, but I will say that I don't think it is baffling at all how news is vetted. The news we receive entirely reflects the interests of concentrated wealth and power who control the information.

[Emily]

Are you ashamed, FdP, when you think about the rest of the world's disgust at Trump?

Emily - are you into shaming people?

The rest of the world does not go to the ballot box. Americans do.  

You brought up shame. So why were you 'ashamed' when Obama didn't show up for the one event?

No one showed up.  

So why were you ashamed?

The absence of the US was conspicuous and was noted as such as the leaders from Israel stood next to leaders from Arab nations.

Are you ashamed when you think about the rest of the world's disgust at Trump?

[Emily]

CSM - I have fr2/ TV5 Monde on a lot to have a different news source and for the film and music.  I guess my answer is the strong alliance between the US and France.

How news is vetted, in terms of what is reported, is indeed baffling.  

You seem to be a specialist in this area.  Maybe you could start a thread?

Strong alliance or not, it is sheer hypocrisy and shameless opportunism to pretend to be standing against deplorable terrorism while simultaneously supporting it and carrying out. In my view, one should fully oppose it but that has never been the position taken by powerful states. And by the way, it is not my position that the United States didn't do this at the time. Indeed, in my view, they committed fully to this hypocritical position.

I don't believe I'll start a thread any time soon, but I will say that I don't think it is baffling at all how news is vetted. The news we receive entirely reflects the interests of concentrated wealth and power who control the information.

Agreed. The US has been the primary perpetrator of terrorism for the last century and continues to be so. Unfortunately, the US also controls the majority of the global media. Of course these two things are not coincidental.

[filledeplage]

fdp, how do you feel about the fact that Mr. Drumpf is now saying that there is "something going on" with President Obama and that maybe he's in cahoots with ISIS?

I find it disgusting.

sdj - I am not privy to whatever is going on there and am not responsible for his commentary.

Well do you think what he's saying about President Obama is accurate? Do you think our duly elected President is indeed in cahoots with ISIS? How about his birthplace? Do you agree with your candidate of choice that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan? How about his religion? Do you believe he is a Christian?

I'd love to hear your answers.

Well, sdj - I have no answers but it was an issue for Hillary in 2008.  You could start there and let us know what you find. 

[filledeplage]

CSM - I have fr2/ TV5 Monde on a lot to have a different news source and for the film and music.  I guess my answer is the strong alliance between the US and France.

How news is vetted, in terms of what is reported, is indeed baffling.  

You seem to be a specialist in this area.  Maybe you could start a thread?

Strong alliance or not, it is sheer hypocrisy and shameless opportunism to pretend to be standing against deplorable terrorism while simultaneously supporting it and carrying out. In my view, one should fully oppose it but that has never been the position taken by powerful states. And by the way, it is not my position that the United States didn't do this at the time. Indeed, in my view, they committed fully to this hypocritical position.

I don't believe I'll start a thread any time soon, but I will say that I don't think it is baffling at all how news is vetted. The news we receive entirely reflects the interests of concentrated wealth and power who control the information.

Agreed. The US has been the primary perpetrator of terrorism for the last century and continues to be so. Unfortunately, the US also controls the majority of the global media. Of course these two things are not coincidental.

CSM - much of the media is now multinational and have many different industries in a crossover fashion.  I am concerned about these attacks.  We all want to be safe with our families whereever we live.   

[Jim V.]

fdp, how do you feel about the fact that Mr. Drumpf is now saying that there is "something going on" with President Obama and that maybe he's in cahoots with ISIS?

I find it disgusting.

sdj - I am not privy to whatever is going on there and am not responsible for his commentary.

Well do you think what he's saying about President Obama is accurate? Do you think our duly elected President is indeed in cahoots with ISIS? How about his birthplace? Do you agree with your candidate of choice that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan? How about his religion? Do you believe he is a Christian?

I'd love to hear your answers.

Well, sdj - I have no answers but it was an issue for Hillary in 2008.  You could start there and let us know what you find. 

No fdp, you don't get it. I don't care about Hillary in 2008 (though in fact she never said he wasn't American born).

I care about your opinion. I think it would be informative to the board if you answered these following questions:

• Do you think our duly elected President is indeed in cahoots with ISIS?
• Where do you think President Barack Obama was born?
• Do you agree with Donald Trump that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan?
• Do you believe President Barack Hussein Obama is a Christian?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

CSM - much of the media is now multinational and have many different industries in a crossover fashion.  I am concerned about these attacks.  We all want to be safe with our families whereever we live.   

In fact, global media is by and large dominated by what Robert McChesney called "U.S.-based transnational media corporations."

Yes, of course you are concerned about these attacks as I am and most us are. That said, if one is honest, then we and they should be concerned with all attacks, not just the ones that are carried out against us. In fact, in my view, one should be more concerned with the attacks that are being carried out by us. And one can make as many comments about not showing up in France as he or she wants, but if one cannot first deplore one's own complicity then one is not in a position to comment on anybody else's.

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

I would point out that while the 2008 Clinton campaign did help spread the "birther" notion, it did not originate with them.  It originated with Barack Obama himself, who allowed himself be described as Kenyan born to sell one of his books.  When given the opportunity to clear up the confusion while running for Senator, he instead said "what difference does it make, I'm not running for President."  He didn't help matters by releasing a photo-shopped birth certificate. 

The "birther" thing is not a vast right wing conspiracy.  It's a distraction created by the President himself.

[Jim V.]

I would point out that while the 2008 Clinton campaign did help spread the "birther" notion, it did not originate with them.  It originated with Barack Obama himself, who allowed himself be described as Kenyan born to sell one of his books.  When given the opportunity to clear up the confusion while running for Senator, he instead said "what difference does it make, I'm not running for President."  He didn't help matters by releasing a photo-shopped birth certificate. 

The "birther" thing is not a vast right wing conspiracy.  It's a distraction created by the President himself.

And due to seeing that this site is run by a birther, I think I might be moseying over to the Pet Sounds forum.

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

And due to seeing that this site is run by a birther, I think I might be moseying over to the Pet Sounds forum.

When did I offer my opinion as to where Barack Obama was born?

https://www.bing.com/search?q=definition+of+birther&pc=MOZI&form=MOZSBR

"a person who doubts the legitimacy of Barack Obama's presidency because of a conspiracy theory that Obama is not a natural-born US citizen."

That's not a definition of me.   

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

Do you agree with Donald Trump that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan?

When did Donald Trump clearly, definitively say that Barack Obama was born in Kenya?  Not just say that it is possible, not ask for proof that he was or wasn't, but said in a clear and absolute manner that he believed the President was born in Kenya?

This isn't a trick question, I honestly would love to get an answer and review the complete comment, if Trump said such a thing.

[Jim V.]

Do you agree with Donald Trump that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan?

When did Donald Trump clearly, definitively say that Barack Obama was born in Kenya?  Not just say that it is possible, not ask for proof that he was or wasn't, but said in a clear and absolute manner that he believed the President was born in Kenya?

This isn't a trick question, I honestly would love to get an answer and review the complete comment, if Trump said such a thing.

Regardless, why do you think Trump is doing this to President Obama, and didn't try it on, say, Ronald Reagan? Hmm, I can't imagine why.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I would point out that while the 2008 Clinton campaign did help spread the "birther" notion, it did not originate with them.  It originated with Barack Obama himself, who allowed himself be described as Kenyan born to sell one of his books.  When given the opportunity to clear up the confusion while running for Senator, he instead said "what difference does it make, I'm not running for President."  He didn't help matters by releasing a photo-shopped birth certificate.  

The "birther" thing is not a vast right wing conspiracy.  It's a distraction created by the President himself.

And due to seeing that this site is run by a birther, I think I might be moseying over to the Pet Sounds forum.

I'm not a birther, and neither is Craig to my knowledge...just an fyi. I'm so far to the left I'm actually on my way back.

[Emily]

I would point out that while the 2008 Clinton campaign did help spread the "birther" notion, it did not originate with them.  It originated with Barack Obama himself, who allowed himself be described as Kenyan born to sell one of his books.  When given the opportunity to clear up the confusion while running for Senator, he instead said "what difference does it make, I'm not running for President."  He didn't help matters by releasing a photo-shopped birth certificate. 

The "birther" thing is not a vast right wing conspiracy.  It's a distraction created by the President himself.

The oldest sources I can find for this's te contained here, and they consist of commenters on right-wing sites saying that they remember hearing Obama saying that in a debate in 2004. Do you have any contemporary sources? Any sources other than a few people saying they remember it?
http://www.thepostemail.com/2009/10/15/obama-concedes-hes-not-a-nbc-in-obama-vs-keyes-2004-debate/

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

Do you agree with Donald Trump that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan?

When did Donald Trump clearly, definitively say that Barack Obama was born in Kenya?  Not just say that it is possible, not ask for proof that he was or wasn't, but said in a clear and absolute manner that he believed the President was born in Kenya?

This isn't a trick question, I honestly would love to get an answer and review the complete comment, if Trump said such a thing.

Regardless, why do you think Trump is doing this to President Obama, and didn't try it on, say, Ronald Reagan? Hmm, I can't imagine why.

First, you appear to be sidestepping your very firm statement that Trump believes Obama was born in Kenya.

Second, why was John McCain's natural born citizenship questioned?  Why was Ted Cruz's?  Can you imagine why?

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

I would point out that while the 2008 Clinton campaign did help spread the "birther" notion, it did not originate with them.  It originated with Barack Obama himself, who allowed himself be described as Kenyan born to sell one of his books.  When given the opportunity to clear up the confusion while running for Senator, he instead said "what difference does it make, I'm not running for President."  He didn't help matters by releasing a photo-shopped birth certificate. 

The "birther" thing is not a vast right wing conspiracy.  It's a distraction created by the President himself.

The oldest sources I can find for this's te contained here, and they consist of commenters on right-wing sites saying that they remember hearing Obama saying that in a debate in 2004. Do you have any contemporary sources? Any sources other than a few people saying they remember it?
http://www.thepostemail.com/2009/10/15/obama-concedes-hes-not-a-nbc-in-obama-vs-keyes-2004-debate/

Emily, I recall hearing the comment.  However, I cannot find anything more than you have found, so I will concede it as unprovable and I am willing to drop the debate comment point. 

As for the book comment:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp

Of course, to be fair, the publisher called it a "mistake" and took the blame for it.

[Emily]

I would point out that while the 2008 Clinton campaign did help spread the "birther" notion, it did not originate with them.  It originated with Barack Obama himself, who allowed himself be described as Kenyan born to sell one of his books.  When given the opportunity to clear up the confusion while running for Senator, he instead said "what difference does it make, I'm not running for President."  He didn't help matters by releasing a photo-shopped birth certificate. 

The "birther" thing is not a vast right wing conspiracy.  It's a distraction created by the President himself.

The oldest sources I can find for this's te contained here, and they consist of commenters on right-wing sites saying that they remember hearing Obama saying that in a debate in 2004. Do you have any contemporary sources? Any sources other than a few people saying they remember it?
http://www.thepostemail.com/2009/10/15/obama-concedes-hes-not-a-nbc-in-obama-vs-keyes-2004-debate/

Emily, I recall hearing the comment.  However, I cannot find anything more than you have found, so I will concede it as unprovable and I am willing to drop the debate comment point. 

As for the book comment:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp

Of course, to be fair, the publisher called it a "mistake" and took the blame for it.

Thanks for that honesty.
Regarding McCain and and Cruz, I suspect people brought it up with McCain to make an ironic equivalence. Cruz, I don't know who originally brought it up. Was it Trump?

[filledeplage]

fdp, how do you feel about the fact that Mr. Drumpf is now saying that there is "something going on" with President Obama and that maybe he's in cahoots with ISIS?

I find it disgusting.

sdj - I am not privy to whatever is going on there and am not responsible for his commentary.

Well do you think what he's saying about President Obama is accurate? Do you think our duly elected President is indeed in cahoots with ISIS? How about his birthplace? Do you agree with your candidate of choice that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan? How about his religion? Do you believe he is a Christian?

I'd love to hear your answers.

Well, sdj - I have no answers but it was an issue for Hillary in 2008.  You could start there and let us know what you find.  

No fdp, you don't get it. I don't care about Hillary in 2008 (though in fact she never said he wasn't Am
I care about your opinion. I think it would be informative to the board if you answered these following questions:

• Do you think our duly elected President is indeed in cahoots with ISIS?
• Where do you think President Barack Obama was born?
• Do you agree with Donald Trump that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan?
• Do you believe President Barack Hussein Obama is a Christian?

sdj - it is no consequence if you think that I "get it" or not.  The law is the law with regard the criteria of being born in the US or some carve-out, specifically to be President.  Someone earlier said that it came from Obama himself where he was born.  But one can be a Senator or Representative and one needs to be a citizen of the US.  But the requirement is more stringent to be President and be "natural-born" and defined in the 14th Amendment.  There is a lot of detailed info on usconstittution.net which can answer most of these criteria.

"There is an exception in the law - the person must be 'subject to the jurisdiction's the United States.  This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example from the provision." Diplomats maintain allegiance to their home country." From usconstitution.net  

The questions are moot because he has been in office for nearly eight years.  That is all after the fact. We are going forward.  

[Jim V.]

fdp, how do you feel about the fact that Mr. Drumpf is now saying that there is "something going on" with President Obama and that maybe he's in cahoots with ISIS?

I find it disgusting.

sdj - I am not privy to whatever is going on there and am not responsible for his commentary.

Well do you think what he's saying about President Obama is accurate? Do you think our duly elected President is indeed in cahoots with ISIS? How about his birthplace? Do you agree with your candidate of choice that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan? How about his religion? Do you believe he is a Christian?

I'd love to hear your answers.

Well, sdj - I have no answers but it was an issue for Hillary in 2008.  You could start there and let us know what you find.  

No fdp, you don't get it. I don't care about Hillary in 2008 (though in fact she never said he wasn't Am
I care about your opinion. I think it would be informative to the board if you answered these following questions:

• Do you think our duly elected President is indeed in cahoots with ISIS?
• Where do you think President Barack Obama was born?
• Do you agree with Donald Trump that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan?
• Do you believe President Barack Hussein Obama is a Christian?

sdj - it is no consequence if you think that I "get it" or not.  The law is the law with regard the criteria of being born in the US or some carve-out, specifically to be President.  Someone earlier said that it came from Obama himself where he was born.  But one can be a Senator or Representative and one needs to be a citizen of the US.  But the requirement is more stringent to be President and be "natural-born" and defined in the 14th Amendment.  There is a lot of detailed info on usconstittution.net which can answer most of these criteria.

"There is an exception in the law - the person must be 'subject to the jurisdiction's the United States.  This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example from the provision." Diplomats maintain allegiance to their home country." From usconstitution.net  

The questions are moot because he has been in office for nearly eight years.  That is all after the fact. We are going forward.  

Do you think Donald Trump is a Christian?

[filledeplage]

fdp, how do you feel about the fact that Mr. Drumpf is now saying that there is "something going on" with President Obama and that maybe he's in cahoots with ISIS?

I find it disgusting.

sdj - I am not privy to whatever is going on there and am not responsible for his commentary.

Well do you think what he's saying about President Obama is accurate? Do you think our duly elected President is indeed in cahoots with ISIS? How about his birthplace? Do you agree with your candidate of choice that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan? How about his religion? Do you believe he is a Christian?

I'd love to hear your answers.

Well, sdj - I have no answers but it was an issue for Hillary in 2008.  You could start there and let us know what you find.  

No fdp, you don't get it. I don't care about Hillary in 2008 (though in fact she never said he wasn't Am
I care about your opinion. I think it would be informative to the board if you answered these following questions:

• Do you think our duly elected President is indeed in cahoots with ISIS?
• Where do you think President Barack Obama was born?
• Do you agree with Donald Trump that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan?
• Do you believe President Barack Hussein Obama is a Christian?

sdj - it is no consequence if you think that I "get it" or not.  The law is the law with regard the criteria of being born in the US or some carve-out, specifically to be President.  Someone earlier said that it came from Obama himself where he was born.  But one can be a Senator or Representative and one needs to be a citizen of the US.  But the requirement is more stringent to be President and be "natural-born" and defined in the 14th Amendment.  There is a lot of detailed info on usconstittution.net which can answer most of these criteria.

"There is an exception in the law - the person must be 'subject to the jurisdiction's the United States.  This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example from the provision." Diplomats maintain allegiance to their home country." From usconstitution.net  

The questions are moot because he has been in office for nearly eight years.  That is all after the fact. We are going forward.  

Do you think Donald Trump is a Christian?

sdj - Do you think he is a Christian?  What I think is of no consequence.

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

I would prefer a president who was an avowed atheist, but I would happily vote for a Muslim presidential candidate if she represented my views.

[Emily]

fdp, how do you feel about the fact that Mr. Drumpf is now saying that there is "something going on" with President Obama and that maybe he's in cahoots with ISIS?

I find it disgusting.

sdj - I am not privy to whatever is going on there and am not responsible for his commentary.

Well do you think what he's saying about President Obama is accurate? Do you think our duly elected President is indeed in cahoots with ISIS? How about his birthplace? Do you agree with your candidate of choice that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan? How about his religion? Do you believe he is a Christian?

I'd love to hear your answers.

Well, sdj - I have no answers but it was an issue for Hillary in 2008.  You could start there and let us know what you find.  

No fdp, you don't get it. I don't care about Hillary in 2008 (though in fact she never said he wasn't Am
I care about your opinion. I think it would be informative to the board if you answered these following questions:

• Do you think our duly elected President is indeed in cahoots with ISIS?
• Where do you think President Barack Obama was born?
• Do you agree with Donald Trump that President Barack Hussein Obama is actually not American born but instead a Kenyan?
• Do you believe President Barack Hussein Obama is a Christian?

sdj - it is no consequence if you think that I "get it" or not.  The law is the law with regard the criteria of being born in the US or some carve-out, specifically to be President.  Someone earlier said that it came from Obama himself where he was born.  But one can be a Senator or Representative and one needs to be a citizen of the US.  But the requirement is more stringent to be President and be "natural-born" and defined in the 14th Amendment.  There is a lot of detailed info on usconstittution.net which can answer most of these criteria.

"There is an exception in the law - the person must be 'subject to the jurisdiction's the United States.  This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example from the provision." Diplomats maintain allegiance to their home country." From usconstitution.net  

The questions are moot because he has been in office for nearly eight years.  That is all after the fact. We are going forward.  

If your parent is a citizen, you are a 'natural born' citizen wherever you are born.

[Emily]

I would prefer a president who was an avowed atheist, but I would happily vote for a Muslim presidential candidate if she represented my views.

[Douchepool]

I would prefer a white Wiccan male president myself.