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Emily
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« Reply #1600 on: October 29, 2016, 07:55:41 AM »

The Observer is a small outlet owned and operated by Trump's son-in-law who is also his senior campaign advisor. Note that for all the claims of media bias against Trump, there are several reporting sites with direct links to his campaign that are not advertised as such.
There are two interpretations here, the one given by this piece, meaning to fix or "rig" a la Trumpese; and the other meaning to learn who wiould be likely to win. The Observer failed to give enough context for clarity, perhaps intentionally.

Further, as I said about the emails, if this level of spotlight were put on anyone in government, similar things would be found. Have you EVER had such granular detail available to the inner workings and private discussions of a politician? Are we seeing similar granularity for other candidates?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 07:58:11 AM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #1601 on: October 29, 2016, 08:12:32 AM »

Quote from: Emily
I think you've been watching this campaign through a narrow lens and you aren't noticing a lot of reactions to him outside your line of vision.
Many of the things you consider to be successes have been, broadly speaking, failures. They've only been successes among the people he doesn't need more successes with.

I've taken a lot of things into consideration. Brexit, the energy difference between supporters, the relentless media attacks on Trump, Wikileaks circling above, online polls and lots of little things. Like The Tortoise And The Hare, on paper the hare should've statistically won, but that wasn't a straightforward race and neither is this.

Quote from: Emily
I think you've got a theory and you're massaging evidence to fit your theory. I'm sure not consciously. I have absolute faith that you're a true believer. But energetic assertion doesn't make things true.
For example, there is statistical evidence that supports my assertion that he was not successful in the debates. Your evidence is that you believe he was.
If he wins and the polls are still saying he'd lose, that would be good evidence, but if he loses will you accept that evidence? Or will you say it was 'rigged' and the majority voted for him?

I'm a true believer that luck has nothing to do with Trump's success in this race, and that he is leagues more persuasive than Clinton. If you'd like to post the stats we can go through it, but I'm sure I can find evidence that'll back up my viewpoint. I'll accept the result if it's fair and square, keep in mind Trump isn't the first person to bring up the possibility it's rigged (https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/791022438486343680). Now my question to you, if Trump wins, will you accept the result? Or will you say that Russia influenced the outcome?

Quote from: Emily
Your opinions of Clinton are also based on Breitbart-ish gossip. Are you aware that the media <> her campaign? I don't recall her campaign sayijng anything about the frog. And they certainly don't blame Russia for "everything going wrong". Though Trump IS blaming 'rigging' for everything going wrong for him.
Before the second debate, his advisors, the media, other Republicans, were all saying it would be a mistake for him to attack B Clinton on alleged sexual assault because a) it's been tested repeatedly and it doesn't work against H Clinton and b) it would open the door for the media to talk about Trump's own record on that matter. Everyone knew it and he walked right into it.

If you'll allow Wikileaks to be bought into the fold, there are very clear cases of her campaign colluding with the media. If you think the Wikileaks aren't worthwhile, we have coincidences like this happening at CNN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDyOhcKpn74.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/donald-trump-pepe-the-frog-and-white-supremacists-an-explainer/
Here's her campaign talking about the frog. Now I'll give her credit because this was released after she collapsed on 9/11 and this was so ridiculous that it took away a lot of attention from the collapsing video and the deplorable comment.
In regards to Bill Clinton, it was the best move he could do. The access hollywood tapes came out, and it was a counterpunch he needed. The media was going for blood, Trump released an apology and in the apology he mentions Bill Clinton's alleged rape victims, it did a good job of muddying the waters. Do you think any other politician could survive a tape like that?


Quote from: Emily
Now, you probably believe that it worked for him, because the right Internet doesn't believe in statistics and they believe that they, exclusively, are "the people".
But it really did not turn out well for him. If he knew how to listen to experts and learn, he wouldn't have done that and he'd be in much better shape now. But what Clinton proved is that this whole "punch back harder" credo of Trump's is a dangerous and stupid one. It means that if someone, in this case her, tweaks him about something, in this case the former Miss Universe, he will be so focused on taking revenge for his wound that he won't notice the potential negative repercussions of his revenge outside of his target.
This is one, among many, reasons why he would be a terrible president. Wound his ego, he starts throwing wild punches that can cause untold damage.
He's a classic bully.  And they very often do very well among a subset of the population, but they don't often do so well generally.

Wait, why's he a bully?

Quote from: Emily
Eta: Hitler - read what you have written about Trump. It reads as if you yourself are building a comparison to Hitler. I still think his style is more Mussolini, but you may be convincing me that Hitler is more apt.
I can see how you might think his style is literally Hitler because I've been using a lot of dark language, but trust me he's not.

This is a good video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pADHLsECWxY
It's funny you keep going back to the tortoise or the hare because in this instance the analogy would fit for Trump being the hare. You're arguing that the showy sprinter will win, so I think you need an analogy that fits that scenario.

You're taking into consideration a number of nonmeasurables, basically you're taking into consideration your impressions. And you have not forwarded anything that can't be accrued to luck. For instance, the whole email thing.

Regarding Clinton and the media, they don't like her. The major outlets are certainly siding with her now because of the horror of Trump, but their coverage of her over the years and until very recently has been decidedly negative. All of the things that people think are so scandalous concerning her have been covered with spins as negative as possible.

Yeah. He's a bully and I think you're the first person I've heard, even on right-wing sites, who doesn't see that.

Regarding fascist demagogues, which I keep saying Mussolini and you keep saying Hitler, it'snot the darkness; it's the "I'm the only one; nothing is trustworthy but me; all the institutions and rules and even laws don't matter, they'll do what I say because I said so; I am your voice (which is actually a Peron line) authoritarian demagoguery. He's at this point trying to break voting, our most basic institution. And your reaction - it doesn't matter what his policies are, what matters is HIM. That's a frightening  populist reaction to a frightening demagogue.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 09:46:35 AM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #1602 on: October 29, 2016, 09:42:43 AM »

Unseemly and not remotely surprising. I don't think this comment meant stuffing ballot boxes or anything, but I think it is one of many examples in U.S. history that hints at us apparently deciding our interests trump (no pun intended) democracy. Sometimes it really happens, such as with the shah in Iran before the Revolution, or half a dozen South American countries. Sometimes we just get whiffs of back-channel influence, like the discussion about who should lead Ukraine after Yanukovych. I think her point is mostly that when you can make rules, you make rules that favor your preferred outcome. It's standard U.S.--and certainly standard Clinton--policy.
Agreed. US foreign policy pays lip service to democracy if we don't like a non-democratic regime, but we don't actually show any preference for democracy, assuming we can get resources cheaply or access to markets.
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« Reply #1603 on: October 30, 2016, 11:24:32 AM »

So, I'm filling out my ballot and I'm undecided about NJ's public question #1. A 'yes' vote permits casino gambling in north Jersey. Anyone have any opinions on this topic?
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« Reply #1604 on: October 30, 2016, 11:48:30 AM »

So, I'm filling out my ballot and I'm undecided about NJ's public question #1. A 'yes' vote permits casino gambling in north Jersey. Anyone have any opinions on this topic?

I know a couple people who live in New Jersey and they are voting no because it would basically be the final nail in the coffin for Atlantic City.  I think Atlantic City will still be circling the drain even if the people vote no on the issue, though.  There needs to be some serious reforms and that might mean some serious economic pain in the near term in the way of moving away from an economy based on gambling. 
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« Reply #1605 on: October 30, 2016, 01:20:31 PM »

http://youtu.be/BJ2es2vAnDQ
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« Reply #1606 on: October 30, 2016, 04:17:53 PM »


That's my former governor...

I came of age quite literally when he won the Minnesota governorship. He was running against a new Republican, former Democratic mayor of St. Paul Norm Coleman, and legacy candidate Skip Humphrey. I remember being at the U of MN when he ran and had campaigned--AT THE U-saying that student aid should be cut, that students should work their way through college. And the students ... cheered. A lot. Because he was muscular and funny looking and "telling it like it is." He was refreshing, especially against the people he ran against, which is why I think it's obvious how someone like Trump is appealing on some level against an HRC. But Ventura wasn't a successful governor. He had his moments. He's not an idiot. But he ended up feuding with both parties, with the press, and more or less with the people. He wanted to be a celebrity when he wanted to be a celebrity, and then complained when he wanted to be treated seriously as a politician (as if there were a switch to turn on and off).

He has plenty to say, and can be heard on various outlets in more recent interviews. He's not an idiot and ought not be taken too lightly (as his victories in the mayoral race of Brooklyn Park and then governorship of Minnesota prove). But he's also no political sage.

By the way, I've said before and will again now: if there were a good third-party candidate in this race, that candidate would win this year. The American people seem to be begging for anyone other than the choices they have, yet we have nothing else.
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« Reply #1607 on: October 30, 2016, 10:28:21 PM »


That's my former governor...

I came of age quite literally when he won the Minnesota governorship. He was running against a new Republican, former Democratic mayor of St. Paul Norm Coleman, and legacy candidate Skip Humphrey. I remember being at the U of MN when he ran and had campaigned--AT THE U-saying that student aid should be cut, that students should work their way through college. And the students ... cheered. A lot. Because he was muscular and funny looking and "telling it like it is." He was refreshing, especially against the people he ran against, which is why I think it's obvious how someone like Trump is appealing on some level against an HRC. But Ventura wasn't a successful governor. He had his moments. He's not an idiot. But he ended up feuding with both parties, with the press, and more or less with the people. He wanted to be a celebrity when he wanted to be a celebrity, and then complained when he wanted to be treated seriously as a politician (as if there were a switch to turn on and off).

He has plenty to say, and can be heard on various outlets in more recent interviews. He's not an idiot and ought not be taken too lightly (as his victories in the mayoral race of Brooklyn Park and then governorship of Minnesota prove). But he's also no political sage.

By the way, I've said before and will again now: if there were a good third-party candidate in this race, that candidate would win this year. The American people seem to be begging for anyone other than the choices they have, yet we have nothing else.

Jill Stein!!
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« Reply #1608 on: October 30, 2016, 10:41:24 PM »

That's who I voted for...
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« Reply #1609 on: October 31, 2016, 12:08:06 PM »

That's who I voted for...

Shame! You wasted your vote completely!  Trump just said last week he wants to eliminate as much as 85% of environmental regulations. It will be ironic, in this close election, that the Green Party Naders enough votes to elect Trump.
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« Reply #1610 on: October 31, 2016, 12:12:16 PM »

That's who I voted for...

Shame! You wasted your vote completely!  Trump just said last week he wants to eliminate as much as 85% of environmental regulations. It will be ironic, in this close election, that the Green Party Naders enough votes to elect Trump.

I disagree. Clinton will still win the battle of arsenic vs cyanide. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-clinton-is-still-a-huge-favorite-to-win-161657760.html

Just tired of things like this
https://www.yahoo.com/news/cnn-cuts-ties-with-donna-brazile-after-hacked-emails-suggest-she-gave-clinton-campaign-debate-questions-183855590.html

The DNC primary was a complete farce.
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« Reply #1611 on: October 31, 2016, 01:56:16 PM »


That's my former governor...

I came of age quite literally when he won the Minnesota governorship. He was running against a new Republican, former Democratic mayor of St. Paul Norm Coleman, and legacy candidate Skip Humphrey. I remember being at the U of MN when he ran and had campaigned--AT THE U-saying that student aid should be cut, that students should work their way through college. And the students ... cheered. A lot. Because he was muscular and funny looking and "telling it like it is." He was refreshing, especially against the people he ran against, which is why I think it's obvious how someone like Trump is appealing on some level against an HRC. But Ventura wasn't a successful governor. He had his moments. He's not an idiot. But he ended up feuding with both parties, with the press, and more or less with the people. He wanted to be a celebrity when he wanted to be a celebrity, and then complained when he wanted to be treated seriously as a politician (as if there were a switch to turn on and off).

He has plenty to say, and can be heard on various outlets in more recent interviews. He's not an idiot and ought not be taken too lightly (as his victories in the mayoral race of Brooklyn Park and then governorship of Minnesota prove). But he's also no political sage.

By the way, I've said before and will again now: if there were a good third-party candidate in this race, that candidate would win this year. The American people seem to be begging for anyone other than the choices they have, yet we have nothing else.

Dude thats awesome, read he turned down a seconed term run due to the media getting too personal with his family... he does make some great points in that 5 min video......The part about the candidates should have to wear nascar outfits to show their corporate sponsors was hilarious.....the john kennedy book he wrote 63 questions sounds interesting..president johnson 'those kennedy boys wont be bothering me much longer'. im definately gonna get that book next
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« Reply #1612 on: October 31, 2016, 02:01:36 PM »

It's a favorable way to say it that he didn't pursue a second term because the media got too personal with his family. As I recall it, they reported on his underage son throwing parties with alcohol, etc., in the governor's mansion, for example. Politicians have a way of deciding things are off limits as soon as they reflect negatively on them. He was, as I said, not a successful governor. I doubt he would have won a second term even if he had run. (He has been Trumpian in his "i might run again" nonsense for the entirety of the time since.)

But yes, he does sometimes have some good ideas and critiques of establishment politics.
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« Reply #1613 on: October 31, 2016, 02:04:39 PM »

So, I'm filling out my ballot and I'm undecided about NJ's public question #1. A 'yes' vote permits casino gambling in north Jersey. Anyone have any opinions on this topic?

I know a couple people who live in New Jersey and they are voting no because it would basically be the final nail in the coffin for Atlantic City.  I think Atlantic City will still be circling the drain even if the people vote no on the issue, though.  There needs to be some serious reforms and that might mean some serious economic pain in the near term in the way of moving away from an economy based on gambling. 

Thanks for the response, Cincinnati Kid. Based on the polls I've seen and people I've talked to, there's little chance it gets approved.
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« Reply #1614 on: November 08, 2016, 08:48:04 AM »

The weather gods cooperated with us this morning, giving my Mom and I the opportunity to vote.

But karma can come back to bite you.
Mom kept going on about showing an ID to vote, why should anyone have a problem with this, including lecturing the people at the precinct table, as she proudly took out her ID.
They looked at it and said, "we don't see your name on this." I took it back and looked over it, and, sure enough, for some strange reason her ID (she no longer has a drivers license) didn't have her name, but her picture. Mom pleaded, I'm SM, I've lived in the same house (save for 1.5 years thanks to a hurricane) for over 60 years, etc etc. No dice. Couldn't help but chuckle. After I voted, had to call someone to get Moms purse from the house. Fortunately Mom was married to a military guy (Army, then Colonel in Air Force Reserve) so she had a military ID which the poll people accepted.

Since our state is solidly pro Trump I decided to vote my conscience as much as possible. Voted for McMullin although he's a lot more hawkish than I like. The guy I really wanted isn't on the ballot in my state and we can't do write in ballots.
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« Reply #1615 on: November 08, 2016, 01:47:39 PM »

Me until today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRHVMi3LxZE
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« Reply #1616 on: November 08, 2016, 02:32:55 PM »


Me during this whole election process
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTyYH-6rVWA
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Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

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« Reply #1617 on: November 08, 2016, 03:00:28 PM »

hahahaha LOL
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« Reply #1618 on: November 08, 2016, 09:31:24 PM »

Jesus tap dancing mother fucking son of a bitch goshdarn Christ  Angry  Huh  Cry
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« Reply #1619 on: November 08, 2016, 10:09:04 PM »

Looks like the Tortoise is about to beat the Hare.
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« Reply #1620 on: November 08, 2016, 10:54:29 PM »

Looks like the Tortoise is about to beat the Hare.
Actually, it looks like the hare is beating the tortoise; it looks like this country is stupider than imaginable.
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« Reply #1621 on: November 08, 2016, 10:55:17 PM »

Or more hate-filled.
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« Reply #1622 on: November 08, 2016, 11:17:16 PM »

https://mobile.twitter.com/pattonoswalt/status/796176331377516544
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« Reply #1623 on: November 08, 2016, 11:33:51 PM »

Yeah. America pretty much hates women.
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« Reply #1624 on: November 08, 2016, 11:34:21 PM »

Looks like the Tortoise is about to beat the Hare.
Actually, it looks like the hare is beating the tortoise; it looks like this country is stupider than imaginable.

You think he got to where he is with luck, you underestimated him and you clung to statistics that favored the candidate that you wanted to win.

Tortoise won, fair and square.
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