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Author Topic: Did Carl lose some of his motivation after 1973?  (Read 5157 times)
harrisonjon
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« on: April 11, 2015, 06:55:56 AM »

He's a hugely motivated figure from, at the very least, Wild Honey to Holland, but I don't see much evidence of him resisting the Love/Johnston MOR axis after 1973, and his solo albums don't exhibit an artist at the cutting edge. I would therefore wonder whether he just decided to go with the flow at some point, no longer able and/or willing to try to maintain the Wilson standards of the past? Obviously there were also personal troubles (drugs, etc) but I'm thinking strictly about his artistic enthusiam and edge.

Note: I'm not saying his post-1973 output is very poor, just that there's a lower plateau that he seems to have settled for.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 06:57:49 AM by harrisonjon » Logged
CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2015, 07:14:34 AM »

He's a hugely motivated figure from, at the very least, Wild Honey to Holland, but I don't see much evidence of him resisting the Love/Johnston MOR axis after 1973, and his solo albums don't exhibit an artist at the cutting edge. I would therefore wonder whether he just decided to go with the flow at some point, no longer able and/or willing to try to maintain the Wilson standards of the past? Obviously there were also personal troubles (drugs, etc) but I'm thinking strictly about his artistic enthusiam and edge.

Note: I'm not saying his post-1973 output is very poor, just that there's a lower plateau that he seems to have settled for.

I agree. I think it was, in part, giving in to greater forces around him. IMO, with few isolated exceptions, the real forward-thinking/envelope-pushing musical artists in the band were The Wilsons, and it is sad that one can witness each of their artistic wills being broken, compromised, or abandoned at various stages throughout the band's career. In Carl's case, I think because he "had" to be the responsible Wilson, relatively speaking, it just wasn't worth fighting for progressive art anymore.

The American Graffiti-fueled nostalgia revival had started changing their financial fortunes in a big way, and with not-particularly-artistically-ambitious member(s) in the band who seemingly were truly enthusiastic (not just because of money, but because of it being a safety zone) about a return to that early type of sound/vibe, it just probably wasn't worth fighting for anymore. The personal costs were too great, and he had a lack of clear-headed allies. Also, after Carl got sober, I think that had to have rewired his motivations somewhat (not a unique occurance with many newly-sober artists), and it did lead to some, IMO, relatively blander material, despite some undisputed late-era highlights.

I think some drugs (in moderation) and, most importantly, support and legit enthusiasm/ encouragement from one's bandmates *can* make a BIG difference in a given artist's ability to create deep, deep art and to push boundaries in a significant way. In one way or another, those elements were no longer the case for Carl past a certain point in the timeline, and therein is the answer, as I see it at least.

Not saying drugs are needed, only that drugs in moderation , when combined with an atmosphere of bandmates who wanted to push the envelope, might have coaxed more interesting material out of Carl at the time. Either the drug use obviously became dangerously far too great (and then presumably disappeared completely), and/or the only functioning other people in the band were not interested in progressive/deep anything past a certain point, and Carl was probably far too busy dealing with family troubles to have emotional energy to try and steer the ship back to earlier artistic highs (though there are sparks of such attempts on BB85).
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 07:27:59 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
Bill30022
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2015, 07:51:04 AM »

My theory is that  there were a number of things going on but the main thing is that Carl grew up (in 1973 he was only 24 or 25 years old):

* In 1977 and 1978 he had his own demons to overcome which he did in a remarkable way.

* He might have been ambivalent about nostalgia stuff. While the more progressive music would be more satisfying artistically, playing what the people want sets your kids (and grand kids) up for life. When he took his sojourn from the band his main complaint was about the quality of the presentation, not the material itself.

* From what I have read, Carl was  a father figure not only to his own kid's but also to those  of his brothers.

* Somewhat related, but it seems that Carl was the patriarch of the Wilson clan. In this role I can imagine that the issues with Brian & Dennis took a huge toll on him.

In short, I think that as he got older,  there were things in Carl's life that took precedence over producing the next "Holland".  If my theory is true maybe the music did suffer, however,  it makes Carl a more admirable man  and the Wilson family more fortunate for having him.
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2015, 08:56:53 AM »

The dissolution of the Beach Boys incarnation that Carl had created himself - with Blondie and Ricky - obviously presented a big blow to him. There are no own songs from him on 15BO, LY and MIU, I have no idea whether he didn't contribute by his own choice or was barred from doing so or was just plain inable. His vocals on those three albums are IMHO the worst of his career, he sounds drunk or stoned. I assume that the Perth incident was kind of a wake-up call for him, he sobered up after that and was back on his old form on LA and KTSA, sounding as enthusiastic on those two records as before. Enthusiastic enough to try to go his own way for a while, which was IMHO the right decision even if his solo albums didn't turn out to be overwhelming. When he rejoined the group after that, it seems he had arranged with whatever situation until, unfortunately, pulling the plug on the Paley material.
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2015, 10:39:28 PM »

He's a hugely motivated figure from, at the very least, Wild Honey to Holland, but I don't see much evidence of him resisting the Love/Johnston MOR axis after 1973

Don't you mean Love/Jardine? Back in the 70's Al was Mike's main supporter, while at the time Bruce was out of the band...
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2015, 10:50:18 PM »

The period right after Holland seems to have been a dry one for Carl artistically, while he battled his own demons. Then from 1979-85, he was again writing and putting everything he had into the music. One of the statements he had during his solo tours was that he was hoping the other guys would get motivated again to make some great music. After BB85, he wasn't writing for the group anymore - at least nothing that got released; and I think the battle with Landy took a lot out of him, circa 1988-92. I think there was a part of him that always regretted having to leave behind the more artistic material in favor of the golden oldies, but at the same time, he was committed to presenting that material in the best way possible each and every show.
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2015, 10:55:43 PM »

He's a hugely motivated figure from, at the very least, Wild Honey to Holland, but I don't see much evidence of him resisting the Love/Johnston MOR axis after 1973

Yeah man, Love You is totally in line with that Love/Johnston MOR axis. The band totally became The Mike And Bruce Show in 1974.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 10:58:46 PM by runnersdialzero » Logged

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Nicko1234
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2015, 10:56:39 PM »

The period right after Holland seems to have been a dry one for Carl artistically, while he battled his own demons. Then from 1979-85, he was again writing and putting everything he had into the music. One of the statements he had during his solo tours was that he was hoping the other guys would get motivated again to make some great music. After BB85, he wasn't writing for the group anymore - at least nothing that got released; and I think the battle with Landy took a lot out of him, circa 1988-92. I think there was a part of him that always regretted having to leave behind the more artistic material in favor of the golden oldies, but at the same time, he was committed to presenting that material in the best way possible each and every show.

Well, it seems in 1974 he was still active. Didn`t he write Don`t Let Me Go with Mike and an early version of Angel Come Home?

I agree that soon after that his personal problems took over though.
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2015, 11:47:38 PM »

Angel Came Home was in the very early days of the 15 BO sessions.
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2015, 12:23:34 AM »

Angel Came Home was in the very early days of the 15 BO sessions.
I thought it started even earlier than that. Didn't they do the first rough version at Caribou?
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Nicko1234
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2015, 12:29:47 AM »

Angel Came Home was in the very early days of the 15 BO sessions.

Apologies. Should have checked AGD`s timeline before I posted. 1975.
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2015, 05:42:39 AM »

He's a hugely motivated figure from, at the very least, Wild Honey to Holland, but I don't see much evidence of him resisting the Love/Johnston MOR axis after 1973, and his solo albums don't exhibit an artist at the cutting edge. I would therefore wonder whether he just decided to go with the flow at some point, no longer able and/or willing to try to maintain the Wilson standards of the past? Obviously there were also personal troubles (drugs, etc) but I'm thinking strictly about his artistic enthusiam and edge.

Note: I'm not saying his post-1973 output is very poor, just that there's a lower plateau that he seems to have settled for.

It's hard for me to imagine that Carl was influenced by some supposed axis or didn't do things as cutting edge as he wanted to or was capable of on his solo albums.
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2015, 07:14:18 AM »

Name someone from the 60s/ early 70s still making cutting edge stuff in 1979. Neil Young, David Bowie, maybe Brian Eno?

Carl was never going New Wave (which is where the cutting edge was located in the late 70's early 80s)  --  if he tried, his efforts would have come off as fake and desperate.

Instead he headed for middle-of-the-road, Adult Contemporary territory. What other choice was there, realistically, for him?
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2015, 08:22:09 AM »

Maybe he just lost his muse. Maybe he needed Jack Rieley to bounce off. Maybe the death of Murry affected him as much as it did his brothers, but in a different way. For me, the only reallly good post-Rieley era song is Angel Come Home - not to say there aren't other good Carl songs, but there seem to be a lot of turgid ballads and AOR stuff that can't hold a candle to his early 70s work.
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Gerry
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2015, 08:26:41 AM »

You know I don't know if Carl lost his motivation but if I was Brian I would certainly lose mine if I read some of the negative posts on this board regarding my new album
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2015, 08:29:57 AM »

He's a hugely motivated figure from, at the very least, Wild Honey to Holland, but I don't see much evidence of him resisting the Love/Johnston MOR axis after 1973

Don't you mean Love/Jardine? Back in the 70's Al was Mike's main supporter, while at the time Bruce was out of the band...

Actually, if/when there ever was anything resembling a so-called axis for control of product wasn't it really Brian/Mike/Al vs. Carl/Dennis?
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2015, 08:49:02 AM »

A more interesting question is why did Carl give up producing? One thing to let Brian reassume the producer's role, but to step aside permanently for Al, Bruce, and Terry Melcher?
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2015, 08:57:57 AM »

He's a hugely motivated figure from, at the very least, Wild Honey to Holland, but I don't see much evidence of him resisting the Love/Johnston MOR axis after 1973

Don't you mean Love/Jardine? Back in the 70's Al was Mike's main supporter, while at the time Bruce was out of the band...

Actually, if/when there ever was anything resembling a so-called axis for control of product wasn't it really Brian/Mike/Al vs. Carl/Dennis?

I find it very hard to believe that Brian was happily and in any way enthusiastically on that side you mentioned. Logic would absolutely dictate that Brian taking that voting/decision-making side, IMO, had most everything to do with becoming passive and largely giving up the fight himself. I feel like a rebuttal to that will be on the tip of your tongue, but it's quite difficult to conceive of a vastly different mindset that would have led to Brian eventually being on that side.
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2015, 09:14:04 AM »

He's a hugely motivated figure from, at the very least, Wild Honey to Holland, but I don't see much evidence of him resisting the Love/Johnston MOR axis after 1973

Don't you mean Love/Jardine? Back in the 70's Al was Mike's main supporter, while at the time Bruce was out of the band...

Actually, if/when there ever was anything resembling a so-called axis for control of product wasn't it really Brian/Mike/Al vs. Carl/Dennis?

I find it very hard to believe that Brian was happily and in any way enthusiastically on that side you mentioned. Logic would absolutely dictate that Brian taking that voting/decision-making side, IMO, had most everything to do with becoming passive and largely giving up the fight himself. I feel like a rebuttal to that will be on the tip of your tongue, but it's quite difficult to conceive of a vastly different mindset that would have led to Brian eventually being on that side.

The instance I'm thinking of, Brian supposedly told Carl and Dennis an album was finished and stuck to it in spite of their desire-he/pushing-him-to do something different.
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2015, 09:21:33 AM »

Hi all,

People do lose motivation from time to time.  Be Carl, Brian, Dennis, Al or anyone.  Some times being put in the leader position can be hard and stressful.  Some times being shot down too much can cause Carl, or anyone else, to lose some motivation.  Doing drugs can atler people.  It is hard to be motivted 24.7.12.   
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« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2015, 11:09:51 PM »

Name someone from the 60s/ early 70s still making cutting edge stuff in 1979. Neil Young, David Bowie, maybe Brian Eno?

Carl was never going New Wave (which is where the cutting edge was located in the late 70's early 80s)  --  if he tried, his efforts would have come off as fake and desperate.

Instead he headed for middle-of-the-road, Adult Contemporary territory. What other choice was there, realistically, for him?
The first solo album is very mellow, but those songs rocked pretty hard when Carl and his band played them live. Youngblood has several hard rocking tunes, but in an LA kind of way, as opposed to heavy metal or new wave/punk, so I guess that makes him an MOR artist. Whatever.
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« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2015, 01:34:41 AM »

Carl Wilson probably wouldn't have been a part of multiple Beach Boys albums and released 2 solo albums, in addition to consistent touring from (earlier than) 1973 to his death in the late-1990s, if he lost some of his motivation.



Carl Wilson was motivated, and he stayed motivated, until the very end, when the evil entity known as God took him away from us mortals on a cold day in 1998.
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2015, 02:17:53 PM »

I think what people mean here about Carl losing his motivation is "he lost his motivation to make the kind of music we wanted from him". Personally, I love the 2 solo albums, enjoy the Beckley/Lamm/Wilson cd, and the few post-73 songs Carl contributed to the BB's. Any 'best of the later years" comp I'd put together would have to include Good Timin', Angel Come Home, Livin' With a Heartache, Where I Belong and It's Gettin' Late.
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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2015, 02:21:12 PM »

Hi all,

Carl was the one who took Landy to court to get him away from Brian.  That is love and motivation!!!
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« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2015, 03:23:13 PM »

Carl went through some tough times family wise in the mid Seventies, and wore out after carrying the group production wise for 6 years, just as Brian did (also 6 years). In the interest of family privacy, I don't want to say more.
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