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Author Topic: Many Negative Reviews of No Pier Pressure...  (Read 104427 times)
Jim V.
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« Reply #400 on: April 16, 2015, 08:42:20 PM »

Its not a bad album but its not great. Its obvious he was coerced into the duets with modern pop artists... I just dont hear any rockNroll on NPP and Brian is a rockNroll artist, he perfected the genre for christ sake! Thats why the BBs music took such a swan dive in the late 70s onward; they had such rockin albums with shut down vol2, all summer alive, summer days, wild honey, 20/20 and love you. The Beach Boys were pop in the sense that pop is short for popular so when a record comes out with their name on it and it sounds like muzak like the light album & keepin the summer alive it drains their substantial/quality factor...to each is own but his/their music needs to be respected for the RIGHT reasons.

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« Reply #401 on: April 16, 2015, 09:49:13 PM »

No.

With great respect to Clay Wirestone who I normally agree with, I don't get this at all from the majority of criticisms of the new album and its production. I'm slightly disturbed by the intolerant tone taken by guitarfool2002 recently (whose wrath I shall doubtless incur with this post). This questioning of people's honesty is fanning the flames of a argument that really doesn't need to happen. The long and the short of it is that some people like and some do not like the production of NPP. Live and let live.

Completely agree with this.  Now we're suggesting saying Brian used autotune really means he's being controlled?  Even when Brian said he likes autotune?  Get real.  I'm not sure why GF continues to fan the flames either.  Some people hear autotune.  Part of it is people labeling any kind of processing autotune, which is very common.  Before I joined here, I would have assumed the Kacey track was full of autotune, even though I like how it was used.  Doesn't mean it's some sort of conspiracy, it just sounds unnatural is all. 

You said this better than I ever could have. Wirestone and Guitarfool are ascribing motivations to posters whose opinions about No Pier Pressure don't line up with their own. It's like a McCarthy communist witch-hunt.

It's as though anybody who says anything negative about NPP has to a) apologize in advance with the "it's only my opinion" disclaimer and b) go into minute technical detail to explain their opinion on the album. If said poster only has a few posts to their name, they are part of the anti-Brian cabal.

This is all becoming very tiresome... Maybe I'm just Gettin' In Over My Head...


First, to all of you above - Find on this board anywhere or in my posts in this thread where I ascribed motivations to posters who posted a negative review. It was the issue of bringing autotune into it that was the problem. Especially if it were being used as an attack, or was being used without any knowledge of what it really is or what it does.

My issue has been with those who deliberately cry "autotune!" as something other than an observation, those who cried "autotune!" before hearing anything from the album except a 10-second cel video, and those who use autotune as an attack, and that has been done.

So these replies come after going out of my way to 1. Say several times how it was not about challenging opinions on liking or not liking this album but rather the autotune nonsense in general being challenged and 2. State specifically in this post that I apologized to anyone who legitimately did not know what autotune was or sounded like who felt like they were getting caught up in this, and offered again to give examples and explanations as have already been given in the past.

Some of the comments suggest you're pointing fingers at me for things I didn't say, but perhaps things that you want to believe I said to start an argument, or what is it? Because it wasn't about someone's negative review or positive review or anything in between.


And where are the examples of autotune anyway? So far, perhaps less than one second total of two specific vocal sounds that someone had heard as autotune out of a 14 track album.

There was one posted that mentioned a passage where the listener said Brian's vocals sounded like they were in a tin can. Where are all the audio engineers and experts to set that straight and say Autotune does not create that sound?

I'll say it. Autotune does not create the sound of being inside a tin can.

We had an example given of a phrase Al sang on The Right Time.

If I say I don't know what caused that, will I be charged the same as the previous posters who didn't hear "Kokomo" in the melody of another album track? If I say it could be anything from a plug in to an edit to some other digital remnant, will I be charged with deliberately not agreeing it's autotune to score points or something?

We had someone mention a portion of a Blondie vocal. I don't hear that as autotune, what if I were to say that or say I don't know if it's autotune or something else versus agreeing by saying "THERE IT IS! AUTOTUNE!", would I be charged as a liar or worse for that?

So tally it all up.

After repeated requests, not nasty or sarcastic in tone, but just plain requests for someone to give us some examples of the kind of autotune that would "ruin" or detract listeners from enjoying the overall album (or even the overall song), here is what we get:

One note that Jardine sang. One note of a phrase Blondie sang. And a lot of people saying they hear autotune permeating the album, yet no one can pinpoint it.

If I were to tell people I just had a terrible experience and a bad meal at a restaurant, they may ask what happened, what was wrong, etc.

I sure as hell would be able to say what it was about the food I didn't like, specifically.

In this case we have specific claims that autotune ruins the album, yet we have a sum total of about a full second of music as examples to point to as the culprit.

Equivalent, perhaps, to saying my meal was ruined because there was a single french fry on the plate that had no salt on it. I can't enjoy the meal unless all 23 french fries on the side dish have the proper amount of salt.

So again, where is the autotune that is ruining this album for people? Two notes out of how many thousand on the album? There has to be more. Let us know where it is so we can hear it too.

If it's there, it's there, right? Someone can surely give a few time stamps an tracks to listen for. At least let us hear it with our own ears.

And I'll reply and engage debates and issues with what I said as long as what I said is portrayed accurately.

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« Reply #402 on: April 16, 2015, 10:08:01 PM »

Reading this spirited debate on the thorny issue of tuna reminds me of the old liner notes on the back of Queen albums. Everyone assumed those Brian May leads were somehow keyboard synthesizer in origin. To which Queen would proudly exclaim - 'No Synthesizers!' (at least up to News of the World)

Maybe it's time to break out that old disclaimer and apply it to tuna.  Wink

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« Reply #403 on: April 16, 2015, 10:33:16 PM »

For those interested in what this studio equipment used on NPP is, does, and what it looks like, here is a brief rundown with links, info, etc. Some of the models may not be exactly what was used, like the case of the Neve and the API preamps, so those photos are of the more well-known models. Also, the UAD reverb and delay plugins were not specifically named, so it could be an EMT plate reverb as much as anything else - check out the options at the link. I'd suggest clicking the links and checking out what all of this does and how it affects the sounds:

Wesley Seidman interview excerpt:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18510.0.html

"Wilson’s vocals were recorded in all three rooms with a Neumann U 47. In Studio A, his voice went through the modified Focusrite console to a Teletronix LA-2A. “In D, we would go through the remote Neve pre’s into an [Universal Audio] 1176, and then toward the last third of the record, I purchased a modified API mic pre, which has amazing bandwidth, and sent the 47 through that, into an 1176. And this is all flat—Brian EQs himself by moving around the mic, which he does naturally. We also used a plethora of [UAD] reverb and delay plug-ins. This enabled us to automate the delay and reverb times for each section of the songs where desired. Brian and I both like the FX to be just right."


http://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/products/show_product.php?item=20



http://www.uaudio.com/hardware/compressors/la-2a.html



http://www.uaudio.com/hardware/compressors/1176ln.html



http://www.uaudio.com/uad-plug-ins.html



http://vintageking.com/neve-bcm-10-ten-channel-frame-s1-16-vintage



http://apiaudio.com/product.php?id=103





« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 10:35:51 PM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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« Reply #404 on: April 16, 2015, 11:00:16 PM »

Reading this spirited debate on the thorny issue of tuna reminds me of the old liner notes on the back of Queen albums. Everyone assumed those Brian May leads were somehow keyboard synthesizer in origin. To which Queen would proudly exclaim - 'No Synthesizers!' (at least up to News of the World)

Maybe it's time to break out that old disclaimer and apply it to tuna.  Wink

Classic!  Grin

That reminds me of an earlier story about country jazz guitarist Jimmy Bryant. In the early 50's he did those amazing duets with steel player Speedy West. Later he recorded as a solo artist. One of his records is "The Fastest Guitar In The Country". DJ's, among others who had heard it, were convinced it had been vari-speeded, sped up, manipulated, etc. Because nobody could play that fast and with that clean of a technique.

So Jimmy played live for those doubtful DJ's at a DJ convention, and played all those amazing guitar leads these guys just knew had to have been manipulated 100% live, right in front of them just like the records. So much for speeding up the records.
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« Reply #405 on: April 16, 2015, 11:39:53 PM »

Quote
This is all becoming very tiresome... Maybe I'm just Gettin' In Over My Head..

Oddly enough, GIOMH is an example of an album that had pitch correction (not necessarily auto-tune) used poorly, with 'Fairy Tale' as a great example (specifically 'and the flowers died').
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« Reply #406 on: April 16, 2015, 11:42:31 PM »

Its not a bad album but its not great. Its obvious he was coerced into the duets with modern pop artists... I just dont hear any rockNroll on NPP and Brian is a rockNroll artist, he perfected the genre for christ sake! Thats why the BBs music took such a swan dive in the late 70s onward; they had such rockin albums with shut down vol2, all summer alive, summer days, wild honey, 20/20 and love you. The Beach Boys were pop in the sense that pop is short for popular so when a record comes out with their name on it and it sounds like muzak like the light album & keepin the summer alive it drains their substantial/quality factor...to each is own but his/their music needs to be respected for the RIGHT reasons.

As far as the opinion on the album, no worries...we can agree to disagree. Now, for the bolded part, well...considering it was Brian's idea, I don't think it is obvious at all, unless he had to coerce himself.
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« Reply #407 on: April 17, 2015, 01:13:31 AM »

First, to all of you above - Find on this board anywhere or in my posts in this thread where I ascribed motivations to posters who posted a negative review. It was the issue of bringing autotune into it that was the problem. Especially if it were being used as an attack, or was being used without any knowledge of what it really is or what it does.

My issue has been with those who deliberately cry "autotune!" as something other than an observation, those who cried "autotune!" before hearing anything from the album except a 10-second cel video, and those who use autotune as an attack, and that has been done.

So these replies come after going out of my way to 1. Say several times how it was not about challenging opinions on liking or not liking this album but rather the autotune nonsense in general being challenged and 2. State specifically in this post that I apologized to anyone who legitimately did not know what autotune was or sounded like who felt like they were getting caught up in this, and offered again to give examples and explanations as have already been given in the past.

Some of the comments suggest you're pointing fingers at me for things I didn't say, but perhaps things that you want to believe I said to start an argument, or what is it? Because it wasn't about someone's negative review or positive review or anything in between.


And where are the examples of autotune anyway? So far, perhaps less than one second total of two specific vocal sounds that someone had heard as autotune out of a 14 track album.

There was one posted that mentioned a passage where the listener said Brian's vocals sounded like they were in a tin can. Where are all the audio engineers and experts to set that straight and say Autotune does not create that sound?

I'll say it. Autotune does not create the sound of being inside a tin can.

We had an example given of a phrase Al sang on The Right Time.

If I say I don't know what caused that, will I be charged the same as the previous posters who didn't hear "Kokomo" in the melody of another album track? If I say it could be anything from a plug in to an edit to some other digital remnant, will I be charged with deliberately not agreeing it's autotune to score points or something?

We had someone mention a portion of a Blondie vocal. I don't hear that as autotune, what if I were to say that or say I don't know if it's autotune or something else versus agreeing by saying "THERE IT IS! AUTOTUNE!", would I be charged as a liar or worse for that?

So tally it all up.

After repeated requests, not nasty or sarcastic in tone, but just plain requests for someone to give us some examples of the kind of autotune that would "ruin" or detract listeners from enjoying the overall album (or even the overall song), here is what we get:

One note that Jardine sang. One note of a phrase Blondie sang. And a lot of people saying they hear autotune permeating the album, yet no one can pinpoint it.

If I were to tell people I just had a terrible experience and a bad meal at a restaurant, they may ask what happened, what was wrong, etc.

I sure as hell would be able to say what it was about the food I didn't like, specifically.

In this case we have specific claims that autotune ruins the album, yet we have a sum total of about a full second of music as examples to point to as the culprit.

Equivalent, perhaps, to saying my meal was ruined because there was a single french fry on the plate that had no salt on it. I can't enjoy the meal unless all 23 french fries on the side dish have the proper amount of salt.

So again, where is the autotune that is ruining this album for people? Two notes out of how many thousand on the album? There has to be more. Let us know where it is so we can hear it too.

If it's there, it's there, right? Someone can surely give a few time stamps an tracks to listen for. At least let us hear it with our own ears.

And I'll reply and engage debates and issues with what I said as long as what I said is portrayed accurately.



Sorry but I really don`t understand this post or why `autotune` or `Auto-tune` continues to be of such importance...

Since the album was released it has had a great reception on this board and the number of people saying that autotune has ruined it for them is relatively small. That goes for this thread as well. Far more time has been spent telling people not to talk about autotune than has actually been spent discussing it.

And yet still there seems to be the feeling that the whole issue surrounding autotune is a construct of this board. It`s not at all. It has been mentioned far, far more in the press than it has in the board members` reviews thread.

So I don`t understand at all why this goes on...
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« Reply #408 on: April 17, 2015, 03:24:28 AM »

Quote
This is all becoming very tiresome... Maybe I'm just Gettin' In Over My Head..

Oddly enough, GIOMH is an example of an album that had pitch correction (not necessarily auto-tune) used poorly, with 'Fairy Tale' as a great example (specifically 'and the flowers died').

Could have used some on "You've touched me", though.
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« Reply #409 on: April 17, 2015, 03:30:31 AM »

I know guitarfool is well intentioned, and knowledgeable. But his endless tirades explaining himself about an issue that has been over-discussed reminds me of that poster who, albeit respectfully, just couln't stop arguing that there were mafia connections in the TWGMTR songwriting team. He made his point and then just couldn't stop arguing. He wasn't rude or anything; it's just that he kept going endlessly. In the end, he got banned. What was his name?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 08:13:18 AM by Autotune » Logged

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« Reply #410 on: April 17, 2015, 03:39:01 AM »

By my post count you can clearly tell that I'm more of a lurker. However, I'm not any less of a fan, and I actually had a track included on one of the old PSML CDs.

With that out of the way, I don't know what the hell is going on here. Guitarfool and Wirestone, I used to really enjoy both of your insights, but I literally can't comprehend the atmosphere that's being established here right now. I don't read all of the threads, so there may be (or rather definitely are) factors at play that I'm unfamiliar with, but I can't understand this level of animosity coming from 2 such level-headed individuals.
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« Reply #411 on: April 17, 2015, 06:31:12 AM »

Two good posts there…
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« Reply #412 on: April 17, 2015, 07:22:09 AM »

Quote
This is all becoming very tiresome... Maybe I'm just Gettin' In Over My Head..

Oddly enough, GIOMH is an example of an album that had pitch correction (not necessarily auto-tune) used poorly, with 'Fairy Tale' as a great example (specifically 'and the flowers died').

No, that's just Brian hitting bad notes. I don't hear a trace of pitch correction on that song. Or the entire album for that matter, going off memory.

Just my .02 on this thread, there is clearly pitch correction all over NPP. Every song. Who cares, it's not as bad as TWGMTR save for a few moments - On The Island (all BW vocals), Whatever Happened (verses), Our Special Love (all BW vocals - damn B-Pain) I'm Feeling Sad (long held notes at end of verses). There are a few more random spots, but generally the ones I mentioned are where it's really obvious. However I gotta say for the majority of the songs it seems the engineers who tuned the vocals did a more careful job this time around.
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« Reply #413 on: April 17, 2015, 07:36:49 AM »

I remember when folks griped -- for years! -- about the "pro tools" on Imagination.

Of course, pro tools is just a digital recording suite, and doesn't necessitate that music sound any particular way. Bob Dylan has recorded multiple, rootsy albums using it.

So the conversation about the technology became a way to argue about things -- Brian being controlled, Brian doing inappropriate music, Brian no longer being able to sing -- that are a little uncomfortable to state outright, but which are easily implied.

We had nearly as much debate about BW's vocals on BWPS, and again on BWRG. By that time, people had graduated to talking about "autotune." But again, it's a stand in for a bunch of other topics. To request that people actually address those topics, rather than rail against a technological specter, seems like a legitimate request.

It's like the "Brian's handlers" talk. Let's imply something dark and ominous, without actually coming out and saying what we mean. Thankfully, that's ebbed a bit as folks like Ray have pointed out that Brian's "people" are essentially his wife and longtime PR person. Nothing too dark there.


Nailed it. Be prepared for all kinds of denials, charges of "conspiracy theorist!", attempts to spin and distort and double-talk and all the rest...but you just nailed it. That sums it up very well.

Pretty sad state of affairs among the fanbase, isn't it? The basic enjoyment that comes with being a fan replaced by those having some axe to grind (or...horrors...agenda) without having the guts to come right out and say it.


Cheers, Wirestone.

No.

With great respect to Clay Wirestone who I normally agree with, I don't get this at all from the majority of criticisms of the new album and its production. I'm slightly disturbed by the intolerant tone taken by guitarfool2002 recently (whose wrath I shall doubtless incur with this post). This questioning of people's honesty is fanning the flames of a argument that really doesn't need to happen. The long and the short of it is that some people like and some do not like the production of NPP. Live and let live.
You said this better than I ever could have. Wirestone and Guitarfool are ascribing motivations to posters whose opinions about No Pier Pressure don't line up with their own. It's like a McCarthy communist witch-hunt.

It's as though anybody who says anything negative about NPP has to a) apologize in advance with the "it's only my opinion" disclaimer and b) go into minute technical detail to explain their opinion on the album. If said poster only has a few posts to their name, they are part of the anti-Brian cabal.

This is all becoming very tiresome... Maybe I'm just Gettin' In Over My Head...





Very well said B00ts. I post my opinion about the tuning of vocals, as well as my general opinion about the album, and I pretty much feel witch hunted by guitar fool. I even politely come back saying that I intend to give examples, though I'm not in a hurry, but the examples are demanded right away, no excuses are good enough. Give me a frikkin' break! The fact is, because of guitarfool and his rather rude and disrespectful tone, it makes me not want to give examples. Talk about driving a true fan away from the message board. Oh wait, I'm not a true fan, I have an agenda! Sigh. Oh, and the few people who actually give examples, they are either a) too fresh on the board to voice an opinion or b) the agenda again.
Guitarfool, respectfully, I think you need to look at yourself from the outside a bit, especially considering you are a moderator here.



« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 07:48:08 AM by tansen » Logged

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« Reply #414 on: April 17, 2015, 08:00:09 AM »

I don't read all of the threads, so there may be (or rather definitely are) factors at play that I'm unfamiliar with

Yes.
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« Reply #415 on: April 17, 2015, 08:57:36 AM »

I remember when folks griped -- for years! -- about the "pro tools" on Imagination.

Of course, pro tools is just a digital recording suite, and doesn't necessitate that music sound any particular way. Bob Dylan has recorded multiple, rootsy albums using it.

So the conversation about the technology became a way to argue about things -- Brian being controlled, Brian doing inappropriate music, Brian no longer being able to sing -- that are a little uncomfortable to state outright, but which are easily implied.

We had nearly as much debate about BW's vocals on BWPS, and again on BWRG. By that time, people had graduated to talking about "autotune." But again, it's a stand in for a bunch of other topics. To request that people actually address those topics, rather than rail against a technological specter, seems like a legitimate request.

It's like the "Brian's handlers" talk. Let's imply something dark and ominous, without actually coming out and saying what we mean. Thankfully, that's ebbed a bit as folks like Ray have pointed out that Brian's "people" are essentially his wife and longtime PR person. Nothing too dark there.


Nailed it. Be prepared for all kinds of denials, charges of "conspiracy theorist!", attempts to spin and distort and double-talk and all the rest...but you just nailed it. That sums it up very well.

Pretty sad state of affairs among the fanbase, isn't it? The basic enjoyment that comes with being a fan replaced by those having some axe to grind (or...horrors...agenda) without having the guts to come right out and say it.


Cheers, Wirestone.

No.

With great respect to Clay Wirestone who I normally agree with, I don't get this at all from the majority of criticisms of the new album and its production. I'm slightly disturbed by the intolerant tone taken by guitarfool2002 recently (whose wrath I shall doubtless incur with this post). This questioning of people's honesty is fanning the flames of a argument that really doesn't need to happen. The long and the short of it is that some people like and some do not like the production of NPP. Live and let live.
You said this better than I ever could have. Wirestone and Guitarfool are ascribing motivations to posters whose opinions about No Pier Pressure don't line up with their own. It's like a McCarthy communist witch-hunt.

It's as though anybody who says anything negative about NPP has to a) apologize in advance with the "it's only my opinion" disclaimer and b) go into minute technical detail to explain their opinion on the album. If said poster only has a few posts to their name, they are part of the anti-Brian cabal.

This is all becoming very tiresome... Maybe I'm just Gettin' In Over My Head...





Very well said B00ts. I post my opinion about the tuning of vocals, as well as my general opinion about the album, and I pretty much feel witch hunted by guitar fool. I even politely come back saying that I intend to give examples, though I'm not in a hurry, but the examples are demanded right away, no excuses are good enough. Give me a frikkin' break! The fact is, because of guitarfool and his rather rude and disrespectful tone, it makes me not want to give examples. Talk about driving a true fan away from the message board. Oh wait, I'm not a true fan, I have an agenda! Sigh. Oh, and the few people who actually give examples, they are either a) too fresh on the board to voice an opinion or b) the agenda again.
Guitarfool, respectfully, I think you need to look at yourself from the outside a bit, especially considering you are a moderator here.




I think GuitarFool is a huge BW fan who has seen many thoughtlessly negative professional reviews of what is, on balance, a pretty decent record that Brian put a lot of effort into. Then he sees people on this messageboard nitpicking aspects of NPP, and he feels the need to defend Brian.
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« Reply #416 on: April 17, 2015, 10:13:31 AM »

I think GuitarFool is a huge BW fan who has seen many thoughtlessly negative professional reviews of what is, on balance, a pretty decent record that Brian put a lot of effort into. Then he sees people on this messageboard nitpicking aspects of NPP, and he feels the need to defend Brian.

But I don't think Brian needs it here, particularly. If someone gets a clear fact wrong, and says Brian didn't write half of "Pet Sounds" or something, then that should be corrected.

But the autotune thing is not a crazy, off-the-wall, unfounded accusation (and it doesn't even amount to an "accusation" from most folks, it's an observation), and I do think even if it wasn't intended, there is a bit of a vibe of hostility towards those who might think they hear autotune. I think it's an unfair to expect someone who makes a simple, non-inflammatory observation (e.g. "I hear autotune on some tracks") to have to back it up with footnotes and time markers and whatnot. When someone says they LIKE a track, do we demand that they cite the time stamp on each song that they like the most? "Sorry, you need to back up why you like this song. Tell me *precisely* which point in the track sounds most heavenly!"

My thinking is that if you feel that autotune should NOT be brought up, under any circumstance *whatsoever*, then say so. But "everybody is entitled to their own opinion" and "the problem isn't criticism, the problem is bringing up autotune" are two ideas that do no mix in any way. You gotta pick one or the other.

I don't think people should be harangued for bringing it up. I've read pages of this thread where there's no inflammatory, innuendo-filled autotune accusations. Numerous people are basically saying "Yeah, there's some autotune. Whatever. Here's what I like and don't like." Yes, that seems kind of flippant. But it's going to be derided either way by some folks. Say "autotune" quickly in passing and you come across flippant. Say it with gusto and then you come across as trying to be inflammatory.

I get it, if you *think* you KNOW it wasn't used, than anybody saying it was is somehow being inflammatory. The problem is, nobody does know. So if you *also* believe that people should be allowed to say they hear it, then why impose an excessive burden of proof?

The problem, as it pertains to the trajectory of this conversation, is in my opinion not that people are observing autotune. The problem seems to be the inability to just accept that some people hear it. You gotta accept it. You gotta accept it even if there's incontrovertible proof that autotune wasn't used. You certainly have to accept it and live with it when the issue is very much debatable as it is in this case.

I think the initial wave of people saying "hold on a sec, let's look at whether autotune really was used on this thing" was a GREAT thing. That was needed. But we've had more time to digest this stuff. Some trolls weighed in, and a lot of knowledgeable folks have weighed in. We haven't "debunked" the autotune thing. It's still an unknown. Every person (and I've tapped a number of additional opinions) who knows a good amount about recording/studio methods *and* the music industry agrees that debating the issue is pretty much a non-starter without having uncut video footage of the studio control room to prove who used what and when.
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« Reply #417 on: April 17, 2015, 10:20:12 AM »

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This is all becoming very tiresome... Maybe I'm just Gettin' In Over My Head..

Oddly enough, GIOMH is an example of an album that had pitch correction (not necessarily auto-tune) used poorly, with 'Fairy Tale' as a great example (specifically 'and the flowers died').

No, that's just Brian hitting bad notes. I don't hear a trace of pitch correction on that song. Or the entire album for that matter,

You'd be surprised. ..
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« Reply #418 on: April 17, 2015, 10:34:17 AM »

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This is all becoming very tiresome... Maybe I'm just Gettin' In Over My Head..

Oddly enough, GIOMH is an example of an album that had pitch correction (not necessarily auto-tune) used poorly, with 'Fairy Tale' as a great example (specifically 'and the flowers died').

No, that's just Brian hitting bad notes. I don't hear a trace of pitch correction on that song. Or the entire album for that matter,

You'd be surprised. ..

Interestingly, aside from anything to do with NPP, I've noticed that when artists do use autotune to "fix" a singer, it works best with tiny fixes. When someone is singing WAAAY off, autotune will make it sound far worse.

Also, one of the issues with some of the GIOMH tracks is that Brian's tone and enthusiasm seem to be low. Autotune won't fix that. Perhaps it can deaden it a bit more.
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« Reply #419 on: April 17, 2015, 10:36:52 AM »

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This is all becoming very tiresome... Maybe I'm just Gettin' In Over My Head..

Oddly enough, GIOMH is an example of an album that had pitch correction (not necessarily auto-tune) used poorly, with 'Fairy Tale' as a great example (specifically 'and the flowers died').

No, that's just Brian hitting bad notes. I don't hear a trace of pitch correction on that song. Or the entire album for that matter,

You'd be surprised. ..

Interestingly, aside from anything to do with NPP, I've noticed that when artists do use autotune to "fix" a singer, it works best with tiny fixes. When someone is singing WAAAY off, autotune will make it sound far worse.



Very true. Even worse when the entire track is selected at once rather than individual phrases or notes.
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« Reply #420 on: April 17, 2015, 10:50:11 AM »

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This is all becoming very tiresome... Maybe I'm just Gettin' In Over My Head..

Oddly enough, GIOMH is an example of an album that had pitch correction (not necessarily auto-tune) used poorly, with 'Fairy Tale' as a great example (specifically 'and the flowers died').

No, that's just Brian hitting bad notes. I don't hear a trace of pitch correction on that song. Or the entire album for that matter,

You'd be surprised. ..

Interestingly, aside from anything to do with NPP, I've noticed that when artists do use autotune to "fix" a singer, it works best with tiny fixes. When someone is singing WAAAY off, autotune will make it sound far worse.





Very true. Even worse when the entire track is selected at once rather than individual phrases or notes.

Oh yeah, that will in most cases make it sound really artificial. Melodyne is a really great program/plugin for doing those subtle changes on individual notes/phrases. Tuning someone's vocal is so usual these days, and if the source (e.g. the vocal) is good, that tend to work great. Tuning a bad vocal on the other hand.. ick!
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« Reply #421 on: April 17, 2015, 01:43:26 PM »

I know guitarfool is well intentioned, and knowledgeable. But his endless tirades explaining himself about an issue that has been over-discussed reminds me of that poster who, albeit respectfully, just couln't stop arguing that there were mafia connections in the TWGMTR songwriting team. He made his point and then just couldn't stop arguing. He wasn't rude or anything; it's just that he kept going endlessly. In the end, he got banned. What was his name?
Was it Ghost?  Vintage Music?  Son of Ghost??   3D
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« Reply #422 on: April 17, 2015, 02:33:49 PM »

Our Special Love has been cited as featuring particularly heavily tuned vocals.  The original version on the Peter H album did sound rather tuned to me (e.g those high notes "can't be found anywhere (in the world)...").  However,  whilst I wouldn't be surprised if the NPP version has been tuned to some extent, I don't hear it and immediately think "autotune".  Would others agree?
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« Reply #423 on: April 17, 2015, 02:45:29 PM »

Our Special Love has been cited as featuring particularly heavily tuned vocals.  The original version on the Peter H album did sound rather tuned to me (e.g those high notes "can't be found anywhere (in the world)...").  However,  whilst I wouldn't be surprised if the NPP version has been tuned to some extent, I don't hear it and immediately think "autotune".  Would others agree?

Pardon for the slight tangent that is kind of related to this: For me, most stuff that has autotune isn't a case of hearing that one aspect and then saying "There it is! Gotcha!" On something like "Our Special Love", it's more a case of hearing an overall sheen, sort of like the sonic equivalent of cheez wiz, and then realizing one of the things that might be causing it is excessive vocal processing including various forms of digital pitch correction.

As an aside within an aside: I should also mention that while I've continued to refer to these things as software plug-ins, there are many forms of this including full-on Antares Auto-Tune that can be found in physical, outboard, rackmount gear as well. You could actually record onto analog tape and never get anywhere near a PC and still use autotune. They make freaking guitar pedal-style effects with pitch correction built in. This is merely an aside that was rolling around in my head. This paragraph has nothing to do with NPP, just in case someone thinks this is some attempt to infer or imply anything.
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« Reply #424 on: April 17, 2015, 02:54:36 PM »

Our Special Love has been cited as featuring particularly heavily tuned vocals.  The original version on the Peter H album did sound rather tuned to me (e.g those high notes "can't be found anywhere (in the world)...").  However,  whilst I wouldn't be surprised if the NPP version has been tuned to some extent, I don't hear it and immediately think "autotune".  Would others agree?

I think whether it has `autotune` or not is of limited importance to most people. I think it will be judged on how natural the vocals sound. And on this song they don`t sound particularly natural to me which has no doubt contributed to this being one of the worst received songs on the album.
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