Many Negative Reviews of No Pier Pressure...

[b00ts]

I'll take that as a cue to post what I'm about to say, the notion of "trying to knock Brian down a few pegs".  Again, speaking for myself.

- The album. Some were writing it off immediately before hearing a note. The collaborators and guest artists were announced, immediately met with claims that Brian was being "forced" into doing this, that he didn't know who his guest artists were, that it was a record label gimmick, that someone was pulling the strings to get new artists on the record, etc. Then some of the rumored guest artists came under fire too.

 ...of a damn near perfect recreation of the studio control room in 1966, using authentic gear? Wow, that looks great, Mark! Nice work! It looks so close to the real thing! Same with taking the steps to ensure the actors were playing period-correct instruments on the sessions...not only playing authentic looking instruments but also *recreating* the actual recording sessions live for the cameras...


I'll say one thing about this board. At least we discuss these kinds of events and let people know what's coming up, or what happened. There aren't many BB's related boards out there...of those that are, it was kind of odd to see the lack of attention given this Vegas show with Blondie, Ricky, and Billy, as well as the comparative lack of attention an album featuring Brian, Al, Blondie, and David has been getting on some of the other BB's outlets. I'd think fans would want to know what the band members past and present are doing, and I'm glad we have people on SmileySmile to keep them informed and actually talk actively about these projects and events.

Sometimes I have to wonder just how segmented not only the fanbase but also other outlets for that fanbase have become since Fall 2012.

- Autotune.

In my opinion having read the types of comments and those commenting on it, Autotune is the next "handlers" issue. Remember the days where there were all the endless claims and charges of these mysterious "handlers" who some swore were calling so many shots and surrounding Brian to the point where he was told everything to do and did exactly what was told...then when that was not only debunked but also laughed off the board by a simple case of presenting the facts of the situation, barely any claims of "handlers" have been posted. Oh, it's not like they're gone entirely, in fact there were some subliminal hints at this mythology written in this very thread. But overall, the claim is bunk and has been proven so.

But now - consider "Autotune". Just consider it. The "handlers" were there, yet when asked repeatedly, no one could accurately name them or prove they were there as suggested. Now the "autotune" is there, yet when asked repeatedly, no one can pinpoint where it is or prove that it's there as suggested.

And that's just a few. Consider too how many first-time posters have played into this stuff by coming right out of the gate blasting Brian or something he has done. Consider how many posters whose accounts have sat dormant have suddenly come to life to post something critical or negative about Brian. Consider how many posters in the cases above are repeat customers, meaning they've been part of the negative chorus on many of these related discussions.

We saw a defense of the "autotune" claims posted that suggested because someone heard autotune, and believes they heard autotune, and says it's autotune, then it's perfectly fine...they don't need to defend anything to anyone.

So in return, regarding the agenda, the patterns, that whole ball of wax so to speak, let me turn the phrase a bit for this situation:

For those seeing the agenda and the patterns: They don't need to prove anything. If they say they see an agenda, they see it - trust them.

And getting back to the first line and the previous post, it feels a lot like there are visible efforts to knock Brian down a few pegs that have followed every announcement of a new project, as well as the release of those projects. If it's autotune or handlers, bashing a q&a that hasn't happened or bashing a TV special that hasn't happened, critiquing a film no one has seen versus critiquing an album that hasn't been heard...weigh it all up and decide for yourself.

When one needs to search to find things to criticize or does nothing but criticize, it suggests more than a passing or passive opinion. When others start to see patterns of this and call it out, it's time to at least put it on the table.

Hi Guitarfool! You are a fabulous, clear-headed writer with a good grasp of logic... you would make a great lawyer. I always enjoy reading your posts. However, methinks the gentleman doth protest too much. It's as though other peoples' dislike of NPP is keeping you from enjoying it to its full potential.

I've been a member of this board for 7 years now, and I have seen the odd, anti-Brian sentiment rear its ugly head from time to time... Especially in the case of C50 (oddly) when certain posters felt they had to take Mike's side.

Then reality is that there are as many differing opinions about Brian's current projects here on Smileysmile.net as there are registered members. For example, I love some of the tracks on NPP, but there are a few pitch correction moments that make me shudder and, in at least one case ("Our Special Love") ruin Brian's vocal for me, full-stop. The usage of pitch correction on the non-Thomas albums (BWPS and TLOS) was far more subtle, and Brian's vocals - even when the performances were not up to par with his latest albums - were produced far more artfully.

Another, much smaller example is that sometimes Brian double-tracks low notes, or words that might have been lost in his main vocal performance. You can hear this in some of the low notes of "Summer's Gone" (THE night grows cold, IT'S time to go) and "One Kind of Love," among others. This is a fairly standard way to get a nice, organic sounding vocal if you punch-in or just mix in the overdubbed notes well, but the Thomas albums don't generally have this sort of artful production. (For example, the stereo placement of the overdubbed notes in "Summer's Gone" is different from the main vocal, which made it leap out to me when I first listened on headphones).

Now, I realize that many fans don't notice or simply don't care about this type of thing - those of us who are musicians, like yourself, and especially those of us who have produced massive amounts of vocals and block harmonies, are probably more apt to hear it. There are other things, like the snare rolls in "Sail Away" that end with a snare and a cymbal hitting together, that are just a bit amateurish to my ears.

I enjoy much of Joe Thomas' work with Brian in spite of these niggling things, not to mention production aspects that are far more important to the sound, like the arrangements that sometimes tend into adult-contemporary territory. Joe Thomas and Brian Wilson produce a very odd combination of super-professional, slick, audiophile recordings with amateurish elements.

As for the film... Unlike a musical album, So much has to go RIGHT for a movie to be good. We are placing our trust not in Brian or Melinda, or even the actors... We are placing our trust in the director, crew, producers, et. al. So, it's easy to see where pessimism is warranted. I haven't been following L&M closely. If it's seems good, I'll see it.

If you expect nothing, then everything is a surprise!

[Mike's Beard]

He's posted every review he seems to have laid his eyes on, be they good, bad, middling or otherwise.

Amazingly enough, while avoiding the positive ones!

He's posted positive ones too.

[ontor pertawst]

Yes who could forget the glittering 3s and raves in German.

[Mikie]

This is all well and good, GF, but you're leaving out something. Brian, Mike and Bruce are routinely trashed every day on this board (Al and Dave seem to get a free pass). You're only looking at it from how it pertains to Brian. That's a skewed perception. Nobody's a bigger Brian Wilson fan than I am (and I'll wrestle all of ya!) but I'm also a Beach Boys fan and I HATE to see ANY members trashed on what's supposed to be a place where "fans" of the band gather. Unfortunately, others don't see it that way and they take every opportunity to slam Brian and Mike (and lob Bruce in there too) regardless of what they do. What happens here is hardly unique. Beatle message boards can be worse and KISS message boards?... Forget it.

There are some people who are never going to be satisfied and sadly, these are the people who are the most vocal and seem to post here constantly. When it was announced that Brian was doing a Q&A here, I got a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach, because I know the nature of this board, and it played out exactly as I thought it would. That's not because I believed in a secret conspiracy, but it's because the malcontents are the most active.

Brian is getting the lion's share of the flak now, because he's actually been in the spotlight in a way the other members haven't been. Does he deserve it? No. Will it happen again? Yes. Will it happen again when Mike's book comes out? Of course. Are posters who post nothing but negative things about him trolls? Absolutely.

....but are they part of an organized conspiracy to knock Brian down a peg? No, that would assume that this board is so collectively powerful that it could have any detrimental impact on Brian's career. God help us all if Brian's career is ever so far down in the gutter that he would have to rely on positive comments from this place to make a living. 

So is it an organized campaign or are people just a**holes? The idea of an organized campaign to take down Brian on, of all things, a message board would mean that the whoever organized it would have to be clinically brain dead to think anything written here...in a place that's frequented by Beach Boys fanatics i.e. the freakiest fringe of rock fandom...would be successful. We're people who not only bought "Here Comes The Night" but actively discuss it. We barely qualify as people from Earth.

So what's next? Names get collected, "undesirables" put on lists, etc? This board is already toxic enough as it is. There are trolls here, plain and simple, just like every other message board. There's nothing special about it. Don't feed them. If anything, we mustn't let it affect other posters who may have legitimate gripes or critiques. All too often, I'm seeing people getting called out for having an "agenda" just because they don't like something. That's a bad climate to have around here and is cowardly.

(and for the record, if anyone didn't like NPP, thinks Brian uses autotune, whatever...we may disagree or get in arguments, but that doesn't mean I'm lumping you in with the trolls. Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.)

Good post. Many of your points align with my thoughts above, Ghost. I think we're on the same wavelength.

[Empire Of Love]

“We had like 72 tracks to work with, plus computers and Pro Tools,” Wilson explains of the production methods used in the making of No Pier Pressure. “We can cut and paste things and go in and pitch correct something with the computer if the note is flat. I wish we had that in the 60s! It was awesome.” 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/04/brian-wilson-on-the-beach-boys-rivalry-with-the-beatles-and-flying-solo.html

Does this take away from your enjoyment of the album?

No, that doesn't bother me.  But this is a far cry from "so much pitching going on, it's out of this world", which very well may bother me.

[startBBtoday]

So, just to be clear, we're 10 days into this album leaking, and those complaining about pitch correction have yet to give a time stamp where it's obvious, notable or detracting, correct?

For those complaining about about pitch correction, you're using the wrong term, and there's a big difference. You either don't like the production, mastering or vocal effects used. You are not hearing "aut0tune" or pitch correction throughout the album.

As GF said, pitch correction is either undetectable or used for effect and obvious.

[startBBtoday]

“We had like 72 tracks to work with, plus computers and Pro Tools,” Wilson explains of the production methods used in the making of No Pier Pressure. “We can cut and paste things and go in and pitch correct something with the computer if the note is flat. I wish we had that in the 60s! It was awesome.” 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/04/brian-wilson-on-the-beach-boys-rivalry-with-the-beatles-and-flying-solo.html




Does this take away from your enjoyment of the album?

I would not be surprised in the least bit if they used pitch correction on the album. I just can't hear it. And those complaining about it probably can't either. And if they can, then please give a track and time stamp.

[Cam Mott]

“We had like 72 tracks to work with, plus computers and Pro Tools,” Wilson explains of the production methods used in the making of No Pier Pressure. “We can cut and paste things and go in and pitch correct something with the computer if the note is flat. I wish we had that in the 60s! It was awesome.” 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/04/brian-wilson-on-the-beach-boys-rivalry-with-the-beatles-and-flying-solo.html




Does this take away from your enjoyment of the album?

 I don't get the controversy on either side of this issue.  He used autotune. So what.

[Mike's Beard]

Yes who could forget the glittering 3s and raves in German.

Did you miss the one that called it "Brian Wilson's best solo album ever"?

[18thofMay]

“We had like 72 tracks to work with, plus computers and Pro Tools,” Wilson explains of the production methods used in the making of No Pier Pressure. “We can cut and paste things and go in and pitch correct something with the computer if the note is flat. I wish we had that in the 60s! It was awesome.” 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/04/brian-wilson-on-the-beach-boys-rivalry-with-the-beatles-and-flying-solo.html




Does this take away from your enjoyment of the album?

 I don't get the controversy on either side of this issue.  He used autotune. So what.

He didn't though that's the problem. And people can't stand it because of all the Autotune and its production. They perhaps would prefer this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_DjKX9zvXI.

[Mikie]

I would not be surprised in the least bit if they used pitch correction on the album. I just can't hear it. And those complaining about it probably can't either. And if they can, then please give a track and time stamp.

Surprise!

“We had like 72 tracks to work with, plus computers and Pro Tools,” Wilson explains of the production methods used in the making of No Pier Pressure. “We can cut and paste things and go in and pitch correct something with the computer if the note is flat. I wish we had that in the 60s! It was awesome.” 

[18thofMay]

I would not be surprised in the least bit if they used pitch correction on the album. I just can't hear it. And those complaining about it probably can't either. And if they can, then please give a track and time stamp.

Surprise!

“We had like 72 tracks to work with, plus computers and Pro Tools,” Wilson explains of the production methods used in the making of No Pier Pressure. “We can cut and paste things and go in and pitch correct something with the computer if the note is flat. I wish we had that in the 60s! It was awesome.” 

Do instruments play notes also?

[startBBtoday]

I would not be surprised in the least bit if they used pitch correction on the album. I just can't hear it. And those complaining about it probably can't either. And if they can, then please give a track and time stamp.

Surprise!

“We had like 72 tracks to work with, plus computers and Pro Tools,” Wilson explains of the production methods used in the making of No Pier Pressure. “We can cut and paste things and go in and pitch correct something with the computer if the note is flat. I wish we had that in the 60s! It was awesome.” 

I quoted that in my post...

[Mikie]

And you don't hear it?  Can you hear the 15 kHz tone at the end of Sgt. Pepper's?

[Mikie]

I would not be surprised in the least bit if they used pitch correction on the album. I just can't hear it. And those complaining about it probably can't either. And if they can, then please give a track and time stamp.

Surprise!

“We had like 72 tracks to work with, plus computers and Pro Tools,” Wilson explains of the production methods used in the making of No Pier Pressure. “We can cut and paste things and go in and pitch correct something with the computer if the note is flat. I wish we had that in the 60s! It was awesome.”  

Do instruments play notes also?

I dunno.

[Autotune]

“We had like 72 tracks to work with, plus computers and Pro Tools,” Wilson explains of the production methods used in the making of No Pier Pressure. “We can cut and paste things and go in and pitch correct something with the computer if the note is flat. I wish we had that in the 60s! It was awesome.” 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/04/brian-wilson-on-the-beach-boys-rivalry-with-the-beatles-and-flying-solo.html




Does this take away from your enjoyment of the album?

 I don't get the controversy on either side of this issue.  He used autotune. So what.

My point exactly. This is not the Live C50 CD.

[CenturyDeprived]

“We had like 72 tracks to work with, plus computers and Pro Tools,” Wilson explains of the production methods used in the making of No Pier Pressure. “We can cut and paste things and go in and pitch correct something with the computer if the note is flat. I wish we had that in the 60s! It was awesome.”  

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/04/brian-wilson-on-the-beach-boys-rivalry-with-the-beatles-and-flying-solo.html




Does this take away from your enjoyment of the album?

I stand corrected. Well bravo to Brian for being open about it.
My only criticism of automobiletune is when its used in a way that I can tell it's there. IMO, it should be completely transparent when used correctly. My opinion stands for my feelings for BW, or any other artist using it, for that matter. I can hear it sometimes on NPP, and it's a production choice that frankly bugs me. That said, I can live with it as a nuisance; what other choice is there (short of refusing to listen entirely)?

[GhostyTMRS]

Back on topic: I'm pretty bummed that Pitchfork gave NPP a mediocre review. I thought for sure they would like it just based on Zooey, Sebu, etc. who they positively gush over like there's no tomorrow. Trust me, I can't stand Pitchfork. I dislike their elitist hipster mentality, the albums they praise as brilliant I find trite and soulless, but they DO hold sway over that Coachella crowd (for better or worse) and their review will have more of an impact on impressionable young people than anything ever written on this board.   

At least they praised a few tracks and ended the review on an upbeat note. Oh well.

[Ron]

Why in the world would you want a bunch of posers deciding they like Brian Wilson because Pitchfork told them to? 

To hell with 'em if they don't know a genius when they hear it. 

[GhostyTMRS]

Because if names like Sebu, Zooey, et al would cause them to discover the album and thereby discover Brian Wilson, or at least discover something he had written post-SMiLE, I would've been all for it.

[puni puni]

So, just to be clear, we're 10 days into this album leaking, and those complaining about pitch correction have yet to give a time stamp where it's obvious, notable or detracting, correct?

If you're asking for examples of going too far with the sweetening, I'll give some - listen to "Our Special Love" between 02:40-03:00. Listen to "Saturday Night" around 01:00. You'll hear examples of what I'm talking about. His voice sounds like it's coming out of a tin can. There is plenty of this all over the album, and it's not just Brian Wilson's voice that has been glossed over. I swear I even heard som kind of gargling sound achieved by excessive processing. I can't find back to that however to prove my point. Mind you I'm not an expert or sound engineer, but I don't think you have to be to hear the problems with the production.

[RangeRoverA1]

Back on topic: I'm pretty bummed that Pitchfork gave NPP a mediocre review. I thought for sure they would like it just based on Zooey, Sebu, etc. who they positively gush over like there's no tomorrow. Trust me, I can't stand Pitchfork. I dislike their elitist hipster mentality, the albums they praise as brilliant I find trite and soulless, but they DO hold sway over that Coachella crowd (for better or worse) and their review will have more of an impact on impressionable young people than anything ever written on this board.  

At least they praised a few tracks and ended the review on an upbeat note. Oh well.

It isn't 1st time I see someone disliking Pitchfork. If you saw their list of 200 best 60s songs, you'd notice that it's not "elitist". Sure, there were some unique choices but so what? If anything, I liked the fact they didn't copy-paste the same top-rate names/songs into their list. Every mag should have their own  individuality; RS list isn't same as Mojo isn't same as NME etc. So they are cool. Re middling review - big deal. I like what I like & won't care even if the album received 0 stars. As some poster said smwr, nowadays, kids decide on their own if they should get an album or not. They listen to previews online, they're not into such a "boring thing" as reading reviews which are subjective anyway. That's the reality of XXI century.

[Scott]

I'l never get back the 30 minutes I spent reading this thread.  That's my fault; it's my problem.  I should note that I was listening to NPP during this time, and I completely enjoyed it.  Some songs more than others; I'm entitled to like what I like and dislike what I don't.  I agree that Brian's singing is the best I've heard from him in a long time.  Any use of Autotune didn't detract from my enjoyment of the album, though I feel it's brave of Brian to point out that it was used - pretty much all pop albums use it or overuse it as the case may be.

If someone doesn't like some or all of the album, that's their prerogative, their right.  They don't need to justify it, and those of you who want to argue to the death about it come across as insecure in your assessment of the album.  I chuckle when I hear some of you talk about an "agenda".  Just because someone doesn't like the album?  Or poor the poor guy who wondered if BW was playing his piano on Conan took so much grief for a not unreasonable question - even what looked like not-so-veiled threats of punishment from Mods.  (PS Brian played his piano when I toured with him on the 50th).

I've never heard anyone say anything truly malicious about Brian here or anywhere; he is loved and adored.  The perceived slights against Brian are blown way out of proportion here.

Just the other day someone listed Mike's instrument as "skin flute" and no one said a word against that.  Mike gets slandered and trashed on a regular basis and many of you think that is equal to wondering whether Brian played his piano.  I don't find those two examples to be of equal value.  I really feel that some of you are bullies.

And let me say for the record, I don't have a bias - Brian is my hero and I consider myself a Brianista - proudly so.  I just don't need to put everyone else down to justify it.

Scott

[Mike's Beard]

Scott, this Brian vs Mike mentality only exists in the warped minds of certain hardcore Brian fans, everyone else appreciates what both men have given us over the years.

[Jim V.]

I've never heard anyone say anything truly malicious about Brian here or anywhere; he is loved and adored.  The perceived slights against Brian are blown way out of proportion here.

If you haven't seen anything malicious about Brian on this board, you apparently never looked very hard. It is underhandedly *hinted* at time and time again here that Brian is a zombie who doesn't have any control over his life, much less his music, and that he's being forced into projects that he isn't into. I'd say that is pretty malicious.

While you're at it, could you ask Mike if he's gonna find any time to listen to the album? I'm sure he "hasn't had any time to" just like when "The Right Time" was first released. But regardless, tell Mike to try to get us that solo album he's planning before 2017! Why the long wait if he's basically just re-recording his older songs?