Many Negative Reviews of No Pier Pressure...

[Cam Mott]

So have Brian and/or Joe said that ottotoon was used on the album or not?

Can I ask why it even matters to you, Mr. Cruz? As you've admitted, you don't care for solo stuff by any of the Beach Boys. You also admit you haven't listened to the album. Therefore, it's hard to understand why you even care about the use of "autotune" on an album you claim to not care about? Is it possible you are just keeping this "autotune" line of attack alive just to knock Brian down a few pegs?

How would that knock Brian down a few pegs exactly?

It is pretty straight forward, have they said whether it was used or not?

[Mikie]

FWIW, I'm not taking a side in the pitch correcting debate.  I've only listened to the available tracks on my cell phone, which is no way to listen to music.  I just think this debate borders on ridiculous.

EoL

You listen to music on a fucking cell phone. And you have the gawl to put down Tansen for something you can't hear anyway. He has every right to either support or not support his claim that Tunafish exists on NPP. He has as much right as you taking the time out of your busy schedule insisting that he take time to prove it. He doesn't need to prove anything. If he says he hears it, he hears it - trust him. BFD if you disagree. You don't need a professional or educated ear to hear anamolies with the production. And the debate over Autotune is ridiculous? No more than it is with your ridiculous post dogpiling on him for his sincere belief concerning the existence of pitch correction. It sounds like you indeed are taking sides with this issue. Go listen to NPP on a halfway decent stereo system with both of your ears or headphones before making comments, Mr. Audiophile.

So if I owned a restaurant, and someone were to go on Yelp and post a negative review saying my food was cold, overly salted, and used too much garlic, even if none of the claims were true I would have to just accept those opinions as "true" facts representing my restaurant simply because that negative reviewer says he tasted too much salt and garlic and his food was cold? What if none of my recipes used garlic, and what if the dish he sampled didn't use salt? And what if I personally prepared that man's dish and ensured it was served hot?

I'd at least ask that reviewer what dish he had, when he was there, whatever the case to at least try to understand where the criticism was coming from. That would be fair, I'd think. If that's not the belief, than anyone would have the right to criticize anyone or anything without any recourse at all, and anyone looking to denigrate or criticize someone or something could just fire away at will, and not need either the burden or proof or even the truth as a factor to support the claims. At least offer something concrete to back up the criticism to be fair all around.

Happens ALL the time, Craig. Inacurrate reviews, or reviews that just don't jive with the restaurant owner or other 'regular' customers. Could be a bad day that the reviewer (or customer) was at the restaurant. Could be the food was served cold or the service sucked or whatever variable surfaced on that day. Could be a matter of taste and high expectations. Quality vs. quantity or the high cost of the dining experience as related to all of the above.

But you know what? When you see a trend that identifies the same issues over and over by different people, you begin to wonder. And it seems that the issue of Tunafish has popped up incessantly on this board, not only with NPP, but with the C50 CD and others. Do you think all of these people are really full of bologna or have an agenda? What agenda would they have? They all seem to be very knowledgeable Beach Boys/Brian fans with a legitimate love of the music! Why do some here think they're full of crap?

It makes me wonder how many board members are lurking here and are reading this thread but are fearful of posting what they really think of NPP. Seriously, can't people post a negative opinion here without being called on it and ridiculed? It makes me feel strongly that those who are ridiculing the negative points and thoughts are the ones with an agenda!!

And you know what else? Did you know those same restaurants on Yelp PAY to have the good 4-5 star reviews near the top above the negative ones? Bet you didn't know that. Kinda reminds you of payola in the old days....

[Peter Reum]

The thing about art of any kind is that one person's trash is another person's treasure. There is nothing wrong with posting a negative review of Brian's album. There is nothing wrong with loving it either. Each person brings a subjective set of suppositions that they filter  Brian's music through. I love The Band, but my wife hates them. We still talk about music, visual arts, and literature. Brian at this point is making the art he wants to make. He would like it to sell well I am sure, but he knows there is a limited market for Sixties musicians. Time marches on, and general tastes change. It is cool that he reached out tohis kids on thus record and tried to record some things his kids would like by working with those artists. This is an album for his kids. I am thrilled that as a dad, he would make that gift to them.

[SMiLE Brian]

[guitarfool2002]

I'll take that as a cue to post what I'm about to say, the notion of "trying to knock Brian down a few pegs".  Again, speaking for myself.

Others have been noticing this and calling it out. I'm one of them. No need to post comparisons and counter-examples "oh, well they do it too..." because I'm speaking about this notion alone and will not be sidetracked or filibustered in the process of arguing any straw man points. I think there have been very deliberate and transparent efforts to "knock Brian down a few pegs", and I'd like to cite some of those here along with follow up comments. This seems like the right discussion to do it.

After the fall of 2012, the landscape changed. Much discussed, much argued, and it's still raging. Lines were drawn among many fans, like it or not that's the way it played out. It's real no matter how much we don't like it and would rather not see it.

Move ahead to when the news of the new projects coming up in 2014 and 2015 from Brian started to come out. Word of a new album in the works, a bio film, a book, shows and tours, appearances, etc. Before some had even a clue about how anything would eventually play out, there were factions on this board that started putting a negative, questioning, even cynical tone on these projects. But that's sometimes human nature, right? Or is it more than that? Decide on a case-by-case basis, or take it as a whole, but it played out on this very board.

Consider:

- The album. Some were writing it off immediately before hearing a note. The collaborators and guest artists were announced, immediately met with claims that Brian was being "forced" into doing this, that he didn't know who his guest artists were, that it was a record label gimmick, that someone was pulling the strings to get new artists on the record, etc. Then some of the rumored guest artists came under fire too.

Turns out Brian knew and heard these "new" artists primarily though his family. Turns out his kids were fans of these artists, and asked him about working with them. He'd hear this music in his house, in the car, and when his family was listening to music. Not uncommon. Maybe he even liked some of them, in return those artists were fans of his as well. So he put it into a plan and worked it out that they come in to work with him on the songs.

The critics were not only wrong, they totally missed the point entirely. The facts told the real story, Brian was the catalyst in getting these artists to work with him inspired by his family. And, he knew and had heard their music too. No one pulled his strings, no one forced him to work this way. That's the fact.

- A 10-second cel phone video of Brian recording a vocal was posted. Some heard autotune, some declared it as representative of what the album would sound like, to the point of suggesting how bad it would be. Based on a ten second video clip of a tracking session. A fair appraisal to judge the whole album which no one had yet heard based on a cel phone video of a tracking session, ten seconds long? No. Yet that's what got written here as a negative against the album, which no one had heard.

- The film "Love & Mercy". Some still photos and cel videos taken on the set surfaced. One showed a particular car, a "woody", that some used to go negative on the film. "Summer Dreams", some compared it to. Cheap, not specific to detail, ignorant of the importance of a woody in telling the story, then it got into all kinds of peripherals. The film would be too Hollywood, it would punch up the story, create false heroes and false villains and push some pipe-dream fantasy that was part of something or another...and the soundtrack, the music was called into question, etc.

People who have seen the film can speak more closely and personally to this one. But it's not what the so-called "naysayers" were suggesting it would be. Far from it, in fact. But that will come out even more. Consider how much negativity the issue of that damn car on the beach in a still frame got versus the still shots Mark Linett shared of him playing Chuck Britz and how exacting his work on getting the recreation of the studio in 1966 had been.

Of those criticizing so vocally that car, how many posted a reply to Mark's photos of a damn near perfect recreation of the studio control room in 1966, using authentic gear? Wow, that looks great, Mark! Nice work! It looks so close to the real thing! Same with taking the steps to ensure the actors were playing period-correct instruments on the sessions...not only playing authentic looking instruments but also *recreating* the actual recording sessions live for the cameras...

So much for saying it would resemble "Summer Dreams", I suppose. Another case of the real thing disproving the naysaying.

- The book. Has there been much negativity about the book? There were some suggestions written between the lines and directly on the lines almost questioning the book's validity based on answers Brian has given in the recent Q&A sessions. Trying to knock the project down based on that? You decide if that's what it is.

Some criticisms over the author of that book were posted too, but we'll leave them alone for now. I'm sure that will come up again in time.

- And on those Q&A sessions...one of the most disappointing scenes I have ever seen play out on this board. I took it personally for certain reasons, and i don't think I was unjustified in doing so.

Before the session happened, remember some of the negativity? Brian is a lousy interview, it wouldn't really be him answering, it will be scripted and planned ahead of time, it will be a promotional shuck for the new album, he'll only take questions about the new album, it will be dull and boring, he won't answer anything, it will be tightly controlled by management, he doesn't want to do these sorts of things, etc.

All wrong. Terribly wrong. Proven wrong. *Can* be proven wrong. But some here had to put a negative spin on what was a pretty damn big happening for the board, and what was thought to be a nice/neat/positive thing for fans here to participate in.

Then it actually happened. Again, all of the naysaying was made to look like complete nonsense by the actual session. Brian was taking and answering the questions live with no advance screening.

Most fans were positive and happy it happened. Some, though, went negative. Same naysaying, same kind of negativity, some of it completely bizarre and some of it repeated to the point of ridiculousness.

Yet Brian himself stared it by saying "let's have some fun", and he did.

He obviously did, because look at how many he has done since the one here. Who expected this from him? many formats, outlets, and even a different 'feel' to each one. He seemed to have enjoyed it enough to do that many more, and he's spread them out over other media too. Good for him. He likes chatting with fans like this, I hope he keeps doing it.

But the joint q&a here and on bw.com was the first one. And to see the reactions, the level of negativity before and after, was and still is sickening. Ungrateful is the most kind word I can use, and that's about as far as I'll go.

To all of those who tried to ruin that experience, nice try. Maybe it affected this board somehow, but Brian is still doing these sessions with fans. Maybe now it's with fans who might appreciate it a bit more than some of those around here, some of whom will remain nameless but who said and posted some really hurtful stuff perhaps without realizing it. I didn't forget.

- And interviews: Wasn't there a case recently where it was charged that an interview had been ghost written, and the answers doctored after the fact? And didn't someone even post what he/she insisted it "should" have read versus what got posted?

I say to that...seriously? It's a decent interview, so now the attack and the negativity has to be found in suggesting the interview had been doctored or punched-up after the fact? My God, has it come to this?

- Live shows. The Vegas show taped for PBS brought together Brian, Al, Blondie, Ricky, and Billy Hinsche on stage. They did songs which had not been done for years. There were vocal and instrumental blends which had not been heard for years. There was a reunion of sorts of key players from what many fans consider the best live Beach Boys touring band dating back to the 70's, with Blondie and Ricky and Billy, playing and singing with Al, only this time adding Brian to their blend.

Fans a few years ago started a petition to add Blondie and Ricky to the C50 lineup. Why did they do that? because they wanted to see these musicians who were part of the Beach Boys during a great time for live shows again on stage with the surviving members. It didn't happen, yet when it did...

...we got people instead commenting on how Brian got up from a chair on stage. We had people commenting before about autotune and production sounds because Joe is the producer of Soundstage. We had people commenting on little things leaking out rather than celebrating what was taking place on the stage. Now the special is being shown in some markets, we can all see it for ourselves. Those who were there live can already speak to what happened that night.

So why try to go negative on it before the show even aired? In fact, before the concert was even staged? What purpose does that serve? Some of us see it as part of something else, some call it an agenda, whatever the case.

I'll say one thing about this board. At least we discuss these kinds of events and let people know what's coming up, or what happened. There aren't many BB's related boards out there...of those that are, it was kind of odd to see the lack of attention given this Vegas show with Blondie, Ricky, and Billy, as well as the comparative lack of attention an album featuring Brian, Al, Blondie, and David has been getting on some of the other BB's outlets. I'd think fans would want to know what the band members past and present are doing, and I'm glad we have people on SmileySmile to keep them informed and actually talk actively about these projects and events.

Sometimes I have to wonder just how segmented not only the fanbase but also other outlets for that fanbase have become since Fall 2012.

- Autotune.

In my opinion having read the types of comments and those commenting on it, Autotune is the next "handlers" issue. Remember the days where there were all the endless claims and charges of these mysterious "handlers" who some swore were calling so many shots and surrounding Brian to the point where he was told everything to do and did exactly what was told...then when that was not only debunked but also laughed off the board by a simple case of presenting the facts of the situation, barely any claims of "handlers" have been posted. Oh, it's not like they're gone entirely, in fact there were some subliminal hints at this mythology written in this very thread. But overall, the claim is bunk and has been proven so.

But now - consider "Autotune". Just consider it. The "handlers" were there, yet when asked repeatedly, no one could accurately name them or prove they were there as suggested. Now the "autotune" is there, yet when asked repeatedly, no one can pinpoint where it is or prove that it's there as suggested.

And that's just a few. Consider too how many first-time posters have played into this stuff by coming right out of the gate blasting Brian or something he has done. Consider how many posters whose accounts have sat dormant have suddenly come to life to post something critical or negative about Brian. Consider how many posters in the cases above are repeat customers, meaning they've been part of the negative chorus on many of these related discussions.

Is it pure coincidence? The coincidences I believe in are when someone pays a dollar for a Lotto ticket and hits the jackpot. But that's just me.

I read through as other posters started keying in on this stuff, and it's time to at least get it on the table. If there are strands of these coincidences running through these related topics, and people are seeing them, then it's game-on to call them out. And also, if other posters are asking for one, to demand an explanation.

We saw a defense of the "autotune" claims posted that suggested because someone heard autotune, and believes they heard autotune, and says it's autotune, then it's perfectly fine...they don't need to defend anything to anyone.

So in return, regarding the agenda, the patterns, that whole ball of wax so to speak, let me turn the phrase a bit for this situation:

For those seeing the agenda and the patterns: They don't need to prove anything. If they say they see an agenda, they see it - trust them.

And getting back to the first line and the previous post, it feels a lot like there are visible efforts to knock Brian down a few pegs that have followed every announcement of a new project, as well as the release of those projects. If it's autotune or handlers, bashing a q&a that hasn't happened or bashing a TV special that hasn't happened, critiquing a film no one has seen versus critiquing an album that hasn't been heard...weigh it all up and decide for yourself.

When one needs to search to find things to criticize or does nothing but criticize, it suggests more than a passing or passive opinion. When others start to see patterns of this and call it out, it's time to at least put it on the table.

[Cam Mott]

I'll take that as a cue to post what I'm about to say, the notion of "trying to knock Brian down a few pegs".  Again, speaking for myself.

Others have been noticing this and calling it out. I'm one of them. No need to post comparisons and counter-examples "oh, well they do it too..." because I'm speaking about this notion alone and will not be sidetracked or filibustered in the process of arguing any straw man points. I think there have been very deliberate and transparent efforts to "knock Brian down a few pegs", and I'd like to cite some of those here along with follow up comments. This seems like the right discussion to do it.

My point is why bother with competing opinions and perceptions? Why not find out? Someone said earlier Brian had said it was used. I did not see or do not remember seeing Brian or Joe speak to this, is there a citation? If not, there is a definitive answer and someone should try to find out instead of arguing with each other based on our personal perceptions.

[Nicko1234]

I'll take that as a cue to post what I'm about to say, the notion of "trying to knock Brian down a few pegs".  Again, speaking for myself.

Others have been noticing this and calling it out. I'm one of them. No need to post comparisons and counter-examples "oh, well they do it too..." because I'm speaking about this notion alone and will not be sidetracked or filibustered in the process of arguing any straw man points. I think there have been very deliberate and transparent efforts to "knock Brian down a few pegs", and I'd like to cite some of those here along with follow up comments. This seems like the right discussion to do it.

After the fall of 2012, the landscape changed. Much discussed, much argued, and it's still raging. Lines were drawn among many fans, like it or not that's the way it played out. It's real no matter how much we don't like it and would rather not see it.

Move ahead to when the news of the new projects coming up in 2014 and 2015 from Brian started to come out. Word of a new album in the works, a bio film, a book, shows and tours, appearances, etc. Before some had even a clue about how anything would eventually play out, there were factions on this board that started putting a negative, questioning, even cynical tone on these projects. But that's sometimes human nature, right? Or is it more than that? Decide on a case-by-case basis, or take it as a whole, but it played out on this very board.

Consider:

- The album. Some were writing it off immediately before hearing a note. The collaborators and guest artists were announced, immediately met with claims that Brian was being "forced" into doing this, that he didn't know who his guest artists were, that it was a record label gimmick, that someone was pulling the strings to get new artists on the record, etc. Then some of the rumored guest artists came under fire too.

Turns out Brian knew and heard these "new" artists primarily though his family. Turns out his kids were fans of these artists, and asked him about working with them. He'd hear this music in his house, in the car, and when his family was listening to music. Not uncommon. Maybe he even liked some of them, in return those artists were fans of his as well. So he put it into a plan and worked it out that they come in to work with him on the songs.

The critics were not only wrong, they totally missed the point entirely. The facts told the real story, Brian was the catalyst in getting these artists to work with him inspired by his family. And, he knew and had heard their music too. No one pulled his strings, no one forced him to work this way. That's the fact.

- A 10-second cel phone video of Brian recording a vocal was posted. Some heard autotune, some declared it as representative of what the album would sound like, to the point of suggesting how bad it would be. Based on a ten second video clip of a tracking session. A fair appraisal to judge the whole album which no one had yet heard based on a cel phone video of a tracking session, ten seconds long? No. Yet that's what got written here as a negative against the album, which no one had heard.

- The film "Love & Mercy". Some still photos and cel videos taken on the set surfaced. One showed a particular car, a "woody", that some used to go negative on the film. "Summer Dreams", some compared it to. Cheap, not specific to detail, ignorant of the importance of a woody in telling the story, then it got into all kinds of peripherals. The film would be too Hollywood, it would punch up the story, create false heroes and false villains and push some pipe-dream fantasy that was part of something or another...and the soundtrack, the music was called into question, etc.

People who have seen the film can speak more closely and personally to this one. But it's not what the so-called "naysayers" were suggesting it would be. Far from it, in fact. But that will come out even more. Consider how much negativity the issue of that damn car on the beach in a still frame got versus the still shots Mark Linett shared of him playing Chuck Britz and how exacting his work on getting the recreation of the studio in 1966 had been.

Of those criticizing so vocally that car, how many posted a reply to Mark's photos of a damn near perfect recreation of the studio control room in 1966, using authentic gear? Wow, that looks great, Mark! Nice work! It looks so close to the real thing! Same with taking the steps to ensure the actors were playing period-correct instruments on the sessions...not only playing authentic looking instruments but also *recreating* the actual recording sessions live for the cameras...

So much for saying it would resemble "Summer Dreams", I suppose. Another case of the real thing disproving the naysaying.

- The book. Has there been much negativity about the book? There were some suggestions written between the lines and directly on the lines almost questioning the book's validity based on answers Brian has given in the recent Q&A sessions. Trying to knock the project down based on that? You decide if that's what it is.

Some criticisms over the author of that book were posted too, but we'll leave them alone for now. I'm sure that will come up again in time.

- And on those Q&A sessions...one of the most disappointing scenes I have ever seen play out on this board. I took it personally for certain reasons, and i don't think I was unjustified in doing so.

Before the session happened, remember some of the negativity? Brian is a lousy interview, it wouldn't really be him answering, it will be scripted and planned ahead of time, it will be a promotional shuck for the new album, he'll only take questions about the new album, it will be dull and boring, he won't answer anything, it will be tightly controlled by management, he doesn't want to do these sorts of things, etc.

All wrong. Terribly wrong. Proven wrong. *Can* be proven wrong. But some here had to put a negative spin on what was a pretty damn big happening for the board, and what was thought to be a nice/neat/positive thing for fans here to participate in.

Then it actually happened. Again, all of the naysaying was made to look like complete nonsense by the actual session. Brian was taking and answering the questions live with no advance screening.

Most fans were positive and happy it happened. Some, though, went negative. Same naysaying, same kind of negativity, some of it completely bizarre and some of it repeated to the point of ridiculousness.

Yet Brian himself stared it by saying "let's have some fun", and he did.

He obviously did, because look at how many he has done since the one here. Who expected this from him? many formats, outlets, and even a different 'feel' to each one. He seemed to have enjoyed it enough to do that many more, and he's spread them out over other media too. Good for him. He likes chatting with fans like this, I hope he keeps doing it.

But the joint q&a here and on bw.com was the first one. And to see the reactions, the level of negativity before and after, was and still is sickening. Ungrateful is the most kind word I can use, and that's about as far as I'll go.

To all of those who tried to ruin that experience, nice try. Maybe it affected this board somehow, but Brian is still doing these sessions with fans. Maybe now it's with fans who might appreciate it a bit more than some of those around here, some of whom will remain nameless but who said and posted some really hurtful stuff perhaps without realizing it. I didn't forget.

- And interviews: Wasn't there a case recently where it was charged that an interview had been ghost written, and the answers doctored after the fact? And didn't someone even post what he/she insisted it "should" have read versus what got posted?

I say to that...seriously? It's a decent interview, so now the attack and the negativity has to be found in suggesting the interview had been doctored or punched-up after the fact? My God, has it come to this?

- Live shows. The Vegas show taped for PBS brought together Brian, Al, Blondie, Ricky, and Billy Hinsche on stage. They did songs which had not been done for years. There were vocal and instrumental blends which had not been heard for years. There was a reunion of sorts of key players from what many fans consider the best live Beach Boys touring band dating back to the 70's, with Blondie and Ricky and Billy, playing and singing with Al, only this time adding Brian to their blend.

Fans a few years ago started a petition to add Blondie and Ricky to the C50 lineup. Why did they do that? because they wanted to see these musicians who were part of the Beach Boys during a great time for live shows again on stage with the surviving members. It didn't happen, yet when it did...

...we got people instead commenting on how Brian got up from a chair on stage. We had people commenting before about autotune and production sounds because Joe is the producer of Soundstage. We had people commenting on little things leaking out rather than celebrating what was taking place on the stage. Now the special is being shown in some markets, we can all see it for ourselves. Those who were there live can already speak to what happened that night.

So why try to go negative on it before the show even aired? In fact, before the concert was even staged? What purpose does that serve? Some of us see it as part of something else, some call it an agenda, whatever the case.

I'll say one thing about this board. At least we discuss these kinds of events and let people know what's coming up, or what happened. There aren't many BB's related boards out there...of those that are, it was kind of odd to see the lack of attention given this Vegas show with Blondie, Ricky, and Billy, as well as the comparative lack of attention an album featuring Brian, Al, Blondie, and David has been getting on some of the other BB's outlets. I'd think fans would want to know what the band members past and present are doing, and I'm glad we have people on SmileySmile to keep them informed and actually talk actively about these projects and events.

Sometimes I have to wonder just how segmented not only the fanbase but also other outlets for that fanbase have become since Fall 2012.

- Autotune.

In my opinion having read the types of comments and those commenting on it, Autotune is the next "handlers" issue. Remember the days where there were all the endless claims and charges of these mysterious "handlers" who some swore were calling so many shots and surrounding Brian to the point where he was told everything to do and did exactly what was told...then when that was not only debunked but also laughed off the board by a simple case of presenting the facts of the situation, barely any claims of "handlers" have been posted. Oh, it's not like they're gone entirely, in fact there were some subliminal hints at this mythology written in this very thread. But overall, the claim is bunk and has been proven so.

But now - consider "Autotune". Just consider it. The "handlers" were there, yet when asked repeatedly, no one could accurately name them or prove they were there as suggested. Now the "autotune" is there, yet when asked repeatedly, no one can pinpoint where it is or prove that it's there as suggested.

And that's just a few. Consider too how many first-time posters have played into this stuff by coming right out of the gate blasting Brian or something he has done. Consider how many posters whose accounts have sat dormant have suddenly come to life to post something critical or negative about Brian. Consider how many posters in the cases above are repeat customers, meaning they've been part of the negative chorus on many of these related discussions.

Is it pure coincidence? The coincidences I believe in are when someone pays a dollar for a Lotto ticket and hits the jackpot. But that's just me.

I read through as other posters started keying in on this stuff, and it's time to at least get it on the table. If there are strands of these coincidences running through these related topics, and people are seeing them, then it's game-on to call them out. And also, if other posters are asking for one, to demand an explanation.

We saw a defense of the "autotune" claims posted that suggested because someone heard autotune, and believes they heard autotune, and says it's autotune, then it's perfectly fine...they don't need to defend anything to anyone.

So in return, regarding the agenda, the patterns, that whole ball of wax so to speak, let me turn the phrase a bit for this situation:

For those seeing the agenda and the patterns: They don't need to prove anything. If they say they see an agenda, they see it - trust them.

And getting back to the first line and the previous post, it feels a lot like there are visible efforts to knock Brian down a few pegs that have followed every announcement of a new project, as well as the release of those projects. If it's autotune or handlers, bashing a q&a that hasn't happened or bashing a TV special that hasn't happened, critiquing a film no one has seen versus critiquing an album that hasn't been heard...weigh it all up and decide for yourself.

When one needs to search to find things to criticize or does nothing but criticize, it suggests more than a passing or passive opinion. When others start to see patterns of this and call it out, it's time to at least put it on the table.

There is one huge problem with everything you have written.

The album has been given a more positive reception on this board than it has in the media.

[ontor pertawst]

Really? A Beach Boys fansite is more positive about a new Brian Wilson album with contributions from 3 other Beach Boys? Thank goodness we have Rotten Nickotomatoes to do the math for us. Keep up the good work.

Ps. We can click and see your post history you know. It's a bit obvious, and you know what? It kinda proves every damn point GF made. No wonder you just dismissed his argument without engaging. Talk about disingenuous!

[SMiLE Brian]

Guitarfool, WRITE A BOOK!

[Ang Jones]

Really? A Beach Boys fansite is more positive about a new Brian Wilson album with contributions from 3 other Beach Boys? Thank goodness we have Rotten Nickotomatoes to do the math for us. Keep up the good work.

Ps. We can click and see your post history you know. It's a bit obvious, and you know what? It kinda proves every damn point GF made. No wonder you just dismissed his argument without engaging. Talk about disingenuous!

I don't really have much to add to this; I'm just quoting so that it appears twice.

[Autotune]

“We had like 72 tracks to work with, plus computers and Pro Tools,” Wilson explains of the production methods used in the making of No Pier Pressure. “We can cut and paste things and go in and pitch correct something with the computer if the note is flat. I wish we had that in the 60s! It was awesome.” 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/04/brian-wilson-on-the-beach-boys-rivalry-with-the-beatles-and-flying-solo.html




Does this take away from your enjoyment of the album?

[Mike's Beard]

Agenda coming to light, perhaps?

 

What I said is not the 'agenda' I was referring to.  

 

So in return, regarding the agenda, the patterns, that whole ball of wax so to speak, let me turn the phrase a bit for this situation:

For those seeing the agenda and the patterns: They don't need to prove anything. If they say they see an agenda, they see it - trust them.

 

[Mike's Beard]

 Do you think all of these people are really full of bologna or have an agenda? What agenda would they have? They all seem to be very knowledgeable Beach Boys/Brian fans with a legitimate love of the music! Why do some here think they're full of crap?

It makes me wonder how many board members are lurking here and are reading this thread but are fearful of posting what they really think of NPP. Seriously, can't people post a negative opinion here without being called on it and ridiculed? It makes me feel strongly that those who are ridiculing the negative points and thoughts are the ones with an agenda!!

 

[Mikie]

AGENDA

[Mike's Beard]

AGENDA

 

[GhostyTMRS]

I'll take that as a cue to post what I'm about to say, the notion of "trying to knock Brian down a few pegs".  Again, speaking for myself.

Others have been noticing this and calling it out. I'm one of them. No need to post comparisons and counter-examples "oh, well they do it too..." because I'm speaking about this notion alone and will not be sidetracked or filibustered in the process of arguing any straw man points. I think there have been very deliberate and transparent efforts to "knock Brian down a few pegs", and I'd like to cite some of those here along with follow up comments. This seems like the right discussion to do it.

After the fall of 2012, the landscape changed. Much discussed, much argued, and it's still raging. Lines were drawn among many fans, like it or not that's the way it played out. It's real no matter how much we don't like it and would rather not see it.

Move ahead to when the news of the new projects coming up in 2014 and 2015 from Brian started to come out. Word of a new album in the works, a bio film, a book, shows and tours, appearances, etc. Before some had even a clue about how anything would eventually play out, there were factions on this board that started putting a negative, questioning, even cynical tone on these projects. But that's sometimes human nature, right? Or is it more than that? Decide on a case-by-case basis, or take it as a whole, but it played out on this very board.

Consider:

- The album. Some were writing it off immediately before hearing a note. The collaborators and guest artists were announced, immediately met with claims that Brian was being "forced" into doing this, that he didn't know who his guest artists were, that it was a record label gimmick, that someone was pulling the strings to get new artists on the record, etc. Then some of the rumored guest artists came under fire too.

Turns out Brian knew and heard these "new" artists primarily though his family. Turns out his kids were fans of these artists, and asked him about working with them. He'd hear this music in his house, in the car, and when his family was listening to music. Not uncommon. Maybe he even liked some of them, in return those artists were fans of his as well. So he put it into a plan and worked it out that they come in to work with him on the songs.

The critics were not only wrong, they totally missed the point entirely. The facts told the real story, Brian was the catalyst in getting these artists to work with him inspired by his family. And, he knew and had heard their music too. No one pulled his strings, no one forced him to work this way. That's the fact.

- A 10-second cel phone video of Brian recording a vocal was posted. Some heard autotune, some declared it as representative of what the album would sound like, to the point of suggesting how bad it would be. Based on a ten second video clip of a tracking session. A fair appraisal to judge the whole album which no one had yet heard based on a cel phone video of a tracking session, ten seconds long? No. Yet that's what got written here as a negative against the album, which no one had heard.

- The film "Love & Mercy". Some still photos and cel videos taken on the set surfaced. One showed a particular car, a "woody", that some used to go negative on the film. "Summer Dreams", some compared it to. Cheap, not specific to detail, ignorant of the importance of a woody in telling the story, then it got into all kinds of peripherals. The film would be too Hollywood, it would punch up the story, create false heroes and false villains and push some pipe-dream fantasy that was part of something or another...and the soundtrack, the music was called into question, etc.

People who have seen the film can speak more closely and personally to this one. But it's not what the so-called "naysayers" were suggesting it would be. Far from it, in fact. But that will come out even more. Consider how much negativity the issue of that damn car on the beach in a still frame got versus the still shots Mark Linett shared of him playing Chuck Britz and how exacting his work on getting the recreation of the studio in 1966 had been.

Of those criticizing so vocally that car, how many posted a reply to Mark's photos of a damn near perfect recreation of the studio control room in 1966, using authentic gear? Wow, that looks great, Mark! Nice work! It looks so close to the real thing! Same with taking the steps to ensure the actors were playing period-correct instruments on the sessions...not only playing authentic looking instruments but also *recreating* the actual recording sessions live for the cameras...

So much for saying it would resemble "Summer Dreams", I suppose. Another case of the real thing disproving the naysaying.

- The book. Has there been much negativity about the book? There were some suggestions written between the lines and directly on the lines almost questioning the book's validity based on answers Brian has given in the recent Q&A sessions. Trying to knock the project down based on that? You decide if that's what it is.

Some criticisms over the author of that book were posted too, but we'll leave them alone for now. I'm sure that will come up again in time.

- And on those Q&A sessions...one of the most disappointing scenes I have ever seen play out on this board. I took it personally for certain reasons, and i don't think I was unjustified in doing so.

Before the session happened, remember some of the negativity? Brian is a lousy interview, it wouldn't really be him answering, it will be scripted and planned ahead of time, it will be a promotional shuck for the new album, he'll only take questions about the new album, it will be dull and boring, he won't answer anything, it will be tightly controlled by management, he doesn't want to do these sorts of things, etc.

All wrong. Terribly wrong. Proven wrong. *Can* be proven wrong. But some here had to put a negative spin on what was a pretty damn big happening for the board, and what was thought to be a nice/neat/positive thing for fans here to participate in.

Then it actually happened. Again, all of the naysaying was made to look like complete nonsense by the actual session. Brian was taking and answering the questions live with no advance screening.

Most fans were positive and happy it happened. Some, though, went negative. Same naysaying, same kind of negativity, some of it completely bizarre and some of it repeated to the point of ridiculousness.

Yet Brian himself stared it by saying "let's have some fun", and he did.

He obviously did, because look at how many he has done since the one here. Who expected this from him? many formats, outlets, and even a different 'feel' to each one. He seemed to have enjoyed it enough to do that many more, and he's spread them out over other media too. Good for him. He likes chatting with fans like this, I hope he keeps doing it.

But the joint q&a here and on bw.com was the first one. And to see the reactions, the level of negativity before and after, was and still is sickening. Ungrateful is the most kind word I can use, and that's about as far as I'll go.

To all of those who tried to ruin that experience, nice try. Maybe it affected this board somehow, but Brian is still doing these sessions with fans. Maybe now it's with fans who might appreciate it a bit more than some of those around here, some of whom will remain nameless but who said and posted some really hurtful stuff perhaps without realizing it. I didn't forget.

- And interviews: Wasn't there a case recently where it was charged that an interview had been ghost written, and the answers doctored after the fact? And didn't someone even post what he/she insisted it "should" have read versus what got posted?

I say to that...seriously? It's a decent interview, so now the attack and the negativity has to be found in suggesting the interview had been doctored or punched-up after the fact? My God, has it come to this?

- Live shows. The Vegas show taped for PBS brought together Brian, Al, Blondie, Ricky, and Billy Hinsche on stage. They did songs which had not been done for years. There were vocal and instrumental blends which had not been heard for years. There was a reunion of sorts of key players from what many fans consider the best live Beach Boys touring band dating back to the 70's, with Blondie and Ricky and Billy, playing and singing with Al, only this time adding Brian to their blend.

Fans a few years ago started a petition to add Blondie and Ricky to the C50 lineup. Why did they do that? because they wanted to see these musicians who were part of the Beach Boys during a great time for live shows again on stage with the surviving members. It didn't happen, yet when it did...

...we got people instead commenting on how Brian got up from a chair on stage. We had people commenting before about autotune and production sounds because Joe is the producer of Soundstage. We had people commenting on little things leaking out rather than celebrating what was taking place on the stage. Now the special is being shown in some markets, we can all see it for ourselves. Those who were there live can already speak to what happened that night.

So why try to go negative on it before the show even aired? In fact, before the concert was even staged? What purpose does that serve? Some of us see it as part of something else, some call it an agenda, whatever the case.

I'll say one thing about this board. At least we discuss these kinds of events and let people know what's coming up, or what happened. There aren't many BB's related boards out there...of those that are, it was kind of odd to see the lack of attention given this Vegas show with Blondie, Ricky, and Billy, as well as the comparative lack of attention an album featuring Brian, Al, Blondie, and David has been getting on some of the other BB's outlets. I'd think fans would want to know what the band members past and present are doing, and I'm glad we have people on SmileySmile to keep them informed and actually talk actively about these projects and events.

Sometimes I have to wonder just how segmented not only the fanbase but also other outlets for that fanbase have become since Fall 2012.

- Autotune.

In my opinion having read the types of comments and those commenting on it, Autotune is the next "handlers" issue. Remember the days where there were all the endless claims and charges of these mysterious "handlers" who some swore were calling so many shots and surrounding Brian to the point where he was told everything to do and did exactly what was told...then when that was not only debunked but also laughed off the board by a simple case of presenting the facts of the situation, barely any claims of "handlers" have been posted. Oh, it's not like they're gone entirely, in fact there were some subliminal hints at this mythology written in this very thread. But overall, the claim is bunk and has been proven so.

But now - consider "Autotune". Just consider it. The "handlers" were there, yet when asked repeatedly, no one could accurately name them or prove they were there as suggested. Now the "autotune" is there, yet when asked repeatedly, no one can pinpoint where it is or prove that it's there as suggested.

And that's just a few. Consider too how many first-time posters have played into this stuff by coming right out of the gate blasting Brian or something he has done. Consider how many posters whose accounts have sat dormant have suddenly come to life to post something critical or negative about Brian. Consider how many posters in the cases above are repeat customers, meaning they've been part of the negative chorus on many of these related discussions.

Is it pure coincidence? The coincidences I believe in are when someone pays a dollar for a Lotto ticket and hits the jackpot. But that's just me.

I read through as other posters started keying in on this stuff, and it's time to at least get it on the table. If there are strands of these coincidences running through these related topics, and people are seeing them, then it's game-on to call them out. And also, if other posters are asking for one, to demand an explanation.

We saw a defense of the "autotune" claims posted that suggested because someone heard autotune, and believes they heard autotune, and says it's autotune, then it's perfectly fine...they don't need to defend anything to anyone.

So in return, regarding the agenda, the patterns, that whole ball of wax so to speak, let me turn the phrase a bit for this situation:

For those seeing the agenda and the patterns: They don't need to prove anything. If they say they see an agenda, they see it - trust them.

And getting back to the first line and the previous post, it feels a lot like there are visible efforts to knock Brian down a few pegs that have followed every announcement of a new project, as well as the release of those projects. If it's autotune or handlers, bashing a q&a that hasn't happened or bashing a TV special that hasn't happened, critiquing a film no one has seen versus critiquing an album that hasn't been heard...weigh it all up and decide for yourself.

When one needs to search to find things to criticize or does nothing but criticize, it suggests more than a passing or passive opinion. When others start to see patterns of this and call it out, it's time to at least put it on the table.

This is all well and good, GF, but you're leaving out something. Brian, Mike and Bruce are routinely trashed every day on this board (Al and Dave seem to get a free pass). You're only looking at it from how it pertains to Brian. That's a skewed perception. Nobody's a bigger Brian Wilson fan than I am (and I'll wrestle all of ya!) but I'm also a Beach Boys fan and I HATE to see ANY members trashed on what's supposed to be a place where "fans" of the band gather. Unfortunately, others don't see it that way and they take every opportunity to slam Brian and Mike (and lob Bruce in there too) regardless of what they do. What happens here is hardly unique. Beatle message boards can be worse and KISS message boards?... Forget it.

There are some people who are never going to be satisfied and sadly, these are the people who are the most vocal and seem to post here constantly. When it was announced that Brian was doing a Q&A here, I got a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach, because I know the nature of this board, and it played out exactly as I thought it would. That's not because I believed in a secret conspiracy, but it's because the malcontents are the most active.

Brian is getting the lion's share of the flak now, because he's actually been in the spotlight in a way the other members haven't been. Does he deserve it? No. Will it happen again? Yes. Will it happen again when Mike's book comes out? Of course. Are posters who post nothing but negative things about him trolls? Absolutely.

....but are they part of an organized conspiracy to knock Brian down a peg? No, that would assume that this board is so collectively powerful that it could have any detrimental impact on Brian's career. God help us all if Brian's career is ever so far down in the gutter that he would have to rely on positive comments from this place to make a living. 

So is it an organized campaign or are people just a**holes? The idea of an organized campaign to take down Brian on, of all things, a message board would mean that the whoever organized it would have to be clinically brain dead to think anything written here...in a place that's frequented by Beach Boys fanatics i.e. the freakiest fringe of rock fandom...would be successful. We're people who not only bought "Here Comes The Night" but actively discuss it. We barely qualify as people from Earth.

So what's next? Names get collected, "undesirables" put on lists, etc? This board is already toxic enough as it is. There are trolls here, plain and simple, just like every other message board. There's nothing special about it. Don't feed them. If anything, we mustn't let it affect other posters who may have legitimate gripes or critiques. All too often, I'm seeing people getting called out for having an "agenda" just because they don't like something. That's a bad climate to have around here and is cowardly.

(and for the record, if anyone didn't like NPP, thinks Brian uses autotune, whatever...we may disagree or get in arguments, but that doesn't mean I'm lumping you in with the trolls. Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.)

[Nicko1234]

Really? A Beach Boys fansite is more positive about a new Brian Wilson album with contributions from 3 other Beach Boys? Thank goodness we have Rotten Nickotomatoes to do the math for us. Keep up the good work.

Ps. We can click and see your post history you know. It's a bit obvious, and you know what? It kinda proves every damn point GF made. No wonder you just dismissed his argument without engaging. Talk about disingenuous!

Yep, my posts are a mixture of positive and negative. Doubtless I`ve posted some garbage over the years.

But Peter Reum got it absolutely right in this thread. Positive and negative opinions are both valid.

And it seems here that the definition of the word `agenda` seems to be any opinion that doesn`t perfectly correspond with their own. The album has been very well received on this board. Just because it hasn`t had a 100% approval rating doesn`t mean there is a big agenda going on. Even Saddam Hussein didn`t get that.

[Mike's Beard]

All too often, I'm seeing people getting called out for having an "agenda" just because they don't like something. That's a bad climate to have around here and is cowardly.

 

[Mike's Beard]

And it seems here that the definition of the word `agenda` seems to be any opinion that doesn`t perfectly correspond with their own. The album has been very well received on this board. Just because it hasn`t had a 100% approval rating doesn`t mean there is a big agenda going on. Even Saddam Hussein didn`t get that.

 

[ontor pertawst]

Those playing the a-word drinking game who would like to go from slightly tipsy to full blown wasted are again encouraged to peruse nicko1234's posting history, which will possibly not back up his inexplicable claim of being fair and balanced. We now return to liver damage already in progress.

(Quick, you still have time! Add positive stuff!)

[Mike's Beard]

He's posted every review he seems to have laid his eyes on, be they good, bad, middling or otherwise.

[ontor pertawst]

Go further back and bask in the balance! I hope you have enough booze on hand.

It would be interesting to see if we could ditch the drinking jokes and address anything GF brought up in his post. Which should be faaairly obvious to any lurker of this lovely site for the past few years.

[Mike's Beard]

What with all the excessive use of the 'a' word, I'm running low. Anyone fancy doing a quick booze run for me?

[joshferrell]

oh no...now the word a-g-e-n-d-a has been filtered to say autotune... see I just typed in autotune and it comes up as autotune.

[Wirestone]

He's posted every review he seems to have laid his eyes on, be they good, bad, middling or otherwise.

Amazingly enough, while avoiding the positive ones!