Many Negative Reviews of No Pier Pressure...

[Mike's Beard]

In other words, the tuning is so awful that the people who hear it can't point to a single place where it's used.

Can we say agenda again, kids?

 

[Wirestone]

I'm here to keep Mike's Beard hydrated.

[Mike's Beard]

FYI folks, five pints and I'm anyones. 

[ForHerCryingSoul]

I don't mind the auto tune in NPP personally, as I think BW needs it.  However, there is some sloppy mixing of vocals that gets distracting. 

For example, there is a really bad vocal artifact in This Beautiful Day, when the "oh, oh, oh, oh's" come in.  It kills the song for me.

The pitch correction on Blondie's voice in Sail Away is also really distracting for me.

Also the way Brian double tracks his vocals compared to anyone else's vocals is odd IMO...

[ontor pertawst]

"Critical consensus." I love it, a few cut and pastes from the usual crowd and suddenly the album is a failure. A positive review in the NYTimes definitely doesn't count as much as unknown blogs.

Ageeeendaaaa! I just met a girl named ageeeeeenddaaa!

[Wirestone]

"Critical consensus." I love it, a few cut and pastes from the usual crowd and suddenly the album is a failure. A positive review in the NYTimes definitely doesn't count as much as unknown blogs.

Ageeeendaaaa! I just met a girl named ageeeeeenddaaa!

He shoots, he scores.

[evenjo]

I have no ethical problems with processing, autotune or pitch correction. I guess you would have to use some, because Brian Wilson's voice is very limited these days. But there is a point where his voice become unnatural and metallic. Joe Thomas went too far on this album, as he has done before. There were some decent songwriting on 'Imagination' and 'TWGMTR" to make up for some of the irritating aspects of the production. The new album does not have that redeeming factor in my opinion. If you're asking for examples of going too far with the sweetening, I'll give some - listen to "Our Special Love" between 02:40-03:00. Listen to "Saturday Night" around 01:00. You'll hear examples of what I'm talking about. His voice sounds like it's coming out of a tin can. There is plenty of this all over the album, and it's not just Brian Wilson's voice that has been glossed over. I swear I even heard som kind of gargling sound achieved by excessive processing. I can't find back to that however to prove my point. Mind you I'm not an expert or sound engineer, but I don't think you have to be to hear the problems with the production.

[Empire Of Love]

If you read my original post, you will find that I wrote that I will try to provide you with some examples, but it's not high on my priority list. So yes, at this very moment, it is too much to ask.

So to clarify, over a 3.5 hour period (from approximately 7:30-11:00am, local time for this board), you didn't have time to go back and listen to a track or two in order to support your original claim, but you did have time to read through thousands of words and comment several times without backing up your original claim?  This is surprising given it shouldn't take much time at all to find an example on an album where there is "so much pitching going on, it's out of this world."

I know it's unlistenable for you, but it seems you could sooner get back to your busy schedule by taking a few seconds to listen to a track or two and cherry pick some examples of the out of this world pitch correcting for us rather than hanging around the board for 3.5 hours telling us you don't have time to back up your initial claim.

FWIW, I'm not taking a side in the pitch correcting debate.  I've only listened to the available tracks on my cell phone, which is no way to listen to music.  I just think this debate borders on ridiculous.

EoL

[Dogbone51]

While it great to know Brian is working on and releasing new material….it’s a shame to say this album is probably one of his career’s lower points.

Yes, there are some highlights on NPP, but it’s more an album of “Brian Wilson as Guest Vocalist” (on his OWN album!!!) than an album of collaberations with other singers or artists.  To my ears many of these songs seem like incomplete ideas and with the slick production and use of Autotune etc (by Joe Thomas), the album lacks the quirkiness and creativity most true BW fans  I would think, expect from him.   That edge is missing.

This is not to say Brian (and Company) shouldn’t try new things or styles, but it is to say this mellow smooth jazz sound (which many of these tracks sound like) isn’t really an ideal direction for Brian to take. It just doesn't sound like Brian to me.  Brian appears to go along with what others think is the “right” direction for him to follow. (He won’t argue..it’s too much trouble for him).  And he may need some help in finding this directions nowadays, but it doesn't seem to work well, at least, to my ears.

Those choosing this direction for him, seem to have little, if any idea, how to really tap into Brian’s true creativity.  A real problem for me.  Many of these songs lack this and for me the direction this album takes, makes the effort falls quite short.  I feel like it's somewhat of a wasted opportunity for the most part.  

As someone I gave a copy of the CD to who's is a minor Beach Boys'/Brian Wilson fan said to me, “It’s like hearing Sade sing “Smooth Operator” sideways. After a while, it’s annoying.”
 I think this says a lot.

Dogbone

[Wirestone]

I have no ethical problems with processing, autotune or pitch correction. I guess you would have to use some, because Brian Wilson's voice is very limited these days. But there is a point where his voice become unnatural and metallic. Joe Thomas went too far on this album, as he has done before. There were some decent songwriting on 'Imagination' and 'TWGMTR" to make up for some of the irritating aspects of the production. The new album does not have that redeeming factor in my opinion. If you're asking for examples of going too far with the sweetening, I'll give some - listen to "Our Special Love" between 02:40-03:00. Listen to "Saturday Night" around 01:00. You'll hear examples of what I'm talking about. His voice sounds like it's coming out of a tin can. There is plenty of this all over the album, and it's not just Brian Wilson's voice that has been glossed over. I swear I even heard som kind of gargling sound achieved by excessive processing. I can't find back to that however to prove my point. Mind you I'm not an expert or sound engineer, but I don't think you have to be to hear the problems with the production.

And this is your first post to the board? Welcome, I guess.

 

[guitarfool2002]

I don't mind the auto tune in NPP personally, as I think BW needs it.  However, there is some sloppy mixing of vocals that gets distracting. 

For example, there is a really bad vocal artifact in This Beautiful Day, when the "oh, oh, oh, oh's" come in.  It kills the song for me.

The pitch correction on Blondie's voice in Sail Away is also really distracting for me.

Also the way Brian double tracks his vocals compared to anyone else's vocals is odd IMO...

It took you 80 posts to say it, that line in bold. So the crux of the issue in everyone talking about autotune could be suggesting Brian needs it when recording vocals? Hmm, not such a casual observation or opinion after all, is it?

Agenda coming to light, perhaps? So it's not about autotune specifically to this or any album, but rather suggesting Brian needs the help to put across a competent vocal these days?

If that's it, if suggesting Brian isn't able to cut it vocally and needs the help, and this is some if not most of what's behind all of this autotune bullshit, I'll call it out as the nonsense it truly is.

So if *he* needs autotune, then who doesn't in contrast? Let's see what that answer will be.

[Empire Of Love]

While it great to know Brian is working on and releasing new material….it’s a shame to say this album is probably one of his career’s lower points.

Yes, there are some highlights on NPP, but it’s more an album of “Brian Wilson as Guest Vocalist” (on his OWN album!!!) than an album of collaberations with other singers or artists.  To my ears many of these songs seem like incomplete ideas and with the slick production and use of Autotune etc (by Joe Thomas), the album lacks the quirkiness and creativity most true BW fans  I would think, expect from him.   That edge is missing.

This is not to say Brian (and Company) shouldn’t try new things or styles, but it is to say this mellow smooth jazz sound (which many of these tracks sound like) isn’t really an ideal direction for Brian to take. It just doesn't sound like Brian to me.  Brian appears to go along with what others think is the “right” direction for him to follow. (He won’t argue..it’s too much trouble for him).  And he may need some help in finding this directions nowadays, but it doesn't seem to work well, at least, to my ears.

Those choosing this direction for him, seem to have little, if any idea, how to really tap into Brian’s true creativity.  A real problem for me.  Many of these songs lack this and for me the direction this album takes, makes the effort falls quite short.  I feel like it's somewhat of a wasted opportunity for the most part.  

As someone I gave a copy of the CD to who's is a minor Beach Boys'/Brian Wilson fan said to me, “It’s like hearing Sade sing “Smooth Operator” sideways. After a while, it’s annoying.”
 I think this says a lot.

Dogbone

Dogbone:  out of curiosity, who do you think is making these choices for Brian and how do you know it isn't him, or that this isn't what he likes?  He chose the collaborators, musicians, etc, knowing what sound they would get.  You seem to have a pretty strong opinion about what his music should sound like and about what is going on in his mind (too tough to fight for his own choices).  Do you have inside intel that I don't?  What makes you think this isn't what he wants?  If he didn't want a Joe Thomas sound, then why did he go back to Joe twice after Imagination?  Or are you going back to the tired old argument that Melinda is calling the shots?  Was it Melinda that forced home to use Joe?  Tell us what you know, or are you pulling this from your @ss and stating it as fact?

EoL

[guitarfool2002]

I have no ethical problems with processing, autotune or pitch correction. I guess you would have to use some, because Brian Wilson's voice is very limited these days. But there is a point where his voice become unnatural and metallic. Joe Thomas went too far on this album, as he has done before. There were some decent songwriting on 'Imagination' and 'TWGMTR" to make up for some of the irritating aspects of the production. The new album does not have that redeeming factor in my opinion. If you're asking for examples of going too far with the sweetening, I'll give some - listen to "Our Special Love" between 02:40-03:00. Listen to "Saturday Night" around 01:00. You'll hear examples of what I'm talking about. His voice sounds like it's coming out of a tin can. There is plenty of this all over the album, and it's not just Brian Wilson's voice that has been glossed over. I swear I even heard som kind of gargling sound achieved by excessive processing. I can't find back to that however to prove my point. Mind you I'm not an expert or sound engineer, but I don't think you have to be to hear the problems with the production.

And this is your first post to the board? Welcome, I guess.

 

My thoughts exactly, good sir. Registered 2 years, no posts, and this is the first one. A familiar sight 'round these parts in the past year or so.

Funny how quite a few of us can spot these little patterns, isn't it? Perhaps even more funny in a sad/pathetic kind of way is how many people who have either rarely if ever posted or have newly registered to the board feel so compelled to throw dirt on or be critical of new projects from Brian Wilson before even introducing themselves, or saying something positive about being a fan on any number of hundreds of topics and posts, which is what so many have said is the reason they joined the board.

The funny thing is many people here see it and I don't think the people doing it realize just how much of it is as transparent as Saran Wrap.

[guitarfool2002]

While it great to know Brian is working on and releasing new material….it’s a shame to say this album is probably one of his career’s lower points.

Yes, there are some highlights on NPP, but it’s more an album of “Brian Wilson as Guest Vocalist” (on his OWN album!!!) than an album of collaberations with other singers or artists.  To my ears many of these songs seem like incomplete ideas and with the slick production and use of Autotune etc (by Joe Thomas), the album lacks the quirkiness and creativity most true BW fans  I would think, expect from him.   That edge is missing.

This is not to say Brian (and Company) shouldn’t try new things or styles, but it is to say this mellow smooth jazz sound (which many of these tracks sound like) isn’t really an ideal direction for Brian to take. It just doesn't sound like Brian to me.  Brian appears to go along with what others think is the “right” direction for him to follow. (He won’t argue..it’s too much trouble for him).  And he may need some help in finding this directions nowadays, but it doesn't seem to work well, at least, to my ears.

Those choosing this direction for him, seem to have little, if any idea, how to really tap into Brian’s true creativity.  A real problem for me.  Many of these songs lack this and for me the direction this album takes, makes the effort falls quite short.  I feel like it's somewhat of a wasted opportunity for the most part.  

As someone I gave a copy of the CD to who's is a minor Beach Boys'/Brian Wilson fan said to me, “It’s like hearing Sade sing “Smooth Operator” sideways. After a while, it’s annoying.”
 I think this says a lot.

Dogbone

Dogbone:  out of curiosity, who do you think is making these choices for Brian and how do you know it isn't him, or that this isn't what he likes?  He chose the collaborators, musicians, etc, knowing what sound they would get.  You seem to have a pretty strong opinion about what his music should sound like and about what is going on in his mind (too tough to fight for his own choices).  Do you have inside intel that I don't?  What makes you think this isn't what he wants?  If he didn't want a Joe Thomas sound, then why did he go back to Joe twice after Imagination?  Or are you going back to the tired old argument that Melinda is calling the shots?  Was it Melinda that forced home to use Joe?  Tell us what you know, or are you pulling this from your @ss and stating it as fact?

EoL

My vote goes to the latter of those two possibilities.

[Empire Of Love]

"Yes, there are some highlights on NPP, but it’s more an album of “Brian Wilson as Guest Vocalist” (on his OWN album!!!) than an album of collaberations with other singers or artists."

I get it if you prefer more Brian leads, but Brian has never been just a lead singer.  He's always been more of a song writer, arranger, producer who assigned leads to those best suited to sing them.  Granted that has mostly in loved assigning leads to other Beach Boys, but it should not be surprising that he would emphasize his song writing, arranging, production, and give leads out to other artists, since working with The Beach Boys isn't currently an option.

EoL

[Autotune]

I don't mind the auto tune in NPP personally, as I think BW needs it.  However, there is some sloppy mixing of vocals that gets distracting. 

For example, there is a really bad vocal artifact in This Beautiful Day, when the "oh, oh, oh, oh's" come in.  It kills the song for me.

The pitch correction on Blondie's voice in Sail Away is also really distracting for me.

Also the way Brian double tracks his vocals compared to anyone else's vocals is odd IMO...

It took you 80 posts to say it, that line in bold. So the crux of the issue in everyone talking about autotune could be suggesting Brian needs it when recording vocals? Hmm, not such a casual observation or opinion after all, is it?

Agenda coming to light, perhaps? So it's not about autotune specifically to this or any album, but rather suggesting Brian needs the help to put across a competent vocal these days?

If that's it, if suggesting Brian isn't able to cut it vocally and needs the help, and this is some if not most of what's behind all of this autotune bullshit, I'll call it out as the nonsense it truly is.

So if *he* needs autotune, then who doesn't in contrast? Let's see what that answer will be.

Whoa guitarfool, my friend, step off the pedal a little bit. There's no need in crusading against the naysayers. There's been prejudice and a-priori observation in this place since the days when Chuck Le Page was around. It's part of our human condition... adopting a virtual identity to make virtual points against certain people. Happens everywhere actually, in every realm of human endeavor, most particularly the internet. Crusading against injustice is a very humane attitude, but it's important to know when to stop. Points were proven. You wrote your own lengthy review, which is available for anyone to read, and it even enhanced more than one listening experience. Moderate yourself, moderator.

[joshferrell]

his name is EvenJo ... maybe it's Joe himself. commenting on his own production and songwriting..

[Mikie]

FWIW, I'm not taking a side in the pitch correcting debate.  I've only listened to the available tracks on my cell phone, which is no way to listen to music.  I just think this debate borders on ridiculous.

EoL

You listen to music on a fucking cell phone. And you have the gawl to put down Tansen for something you can't hear anyway. He has every right to either support or not support his claim that Tunafish exists on NPP. He has as much right as you taking the time out of your busy schedule insisting that he take time to prove it. He doesn't need to prove anything. If he says he hears it, he hears it - trust him. He doesn't need to justify hs findings - this ain't a court of law that requires evidence. BFD if you disagree. You don't need a professional or educated ear to hear anamolies with the production. And the debate over Autotune is ridiculous? No more than it is with your ridiculous post dog-piling on him for his sincere belief concerning the existence of pitch correction. It sounds like you indeed are taking sides with this issue. Go listen to NPP on a halfway decent stereo system with both of your ears or headphones before making comments, Mr. Audiophile.

[ForHerCryingSoul]

It took you 80 posts to say it, that line in bold. So the crux of the issue in everyone talking about autotune could be suggesting Brian needs it when recording vocals? Hmm, not such a casual observation or opinion after all, is it?

Agenda coming to light, perhaps? So it's not about autotune specifically to this or any album, but rather suggesting Brian needs the help to put across a competent vocal these days?

If that's it, if suggesting Brian isn't able to cut it vocally and needs the help, and this is some if not most of what's behind all of this autotune bullshit, I'll call it out as the nonsense it truly is.

So if *he* needs autotune, then who doesn't in contrast? Let's see what that answer will be.

I wasn't trying to point out such a stabbing blow.  I need to elaborate.  I think in order for Brian to sound so sweet like he does on NPP, he needs a little pitch correction to make sure he stays on pitch...

What I said is not the 'agenda' I was referring to.  I am worried about how reviews and the criticisms of the album will affect album sales.  

Look, I'm sorry if what I said throughout this thread sounds jumbled...  I don't have a better way to explain what I am feeling.  Didn't mean to offend you, guitarfool and others.

 

[guitarfool2002]

I don't mind the auto tune in NPP personally, as I think BW needs it.  However, there is some sloppy mixing of vocals that gets distracting. 

For example, there is a really bad vocal artifact in This Beautiful Day, when the "oh, oh, oh, oh's" come in.  It kills the song for me.

The pitch correction on Blondie's voice in Sail Away is also really distracting for me.

Also the way Brian double tracks his vocals compared to anyone else's vocals is odd IMO...

It took you 80 posts to say it, that line in bold. So the crux of the issue in everyone talking about autotune could be suggesting Brian needs it when recording vocals? Hmm, not such a casual observation or opinion after all, is it?

Agenda coming to light, perhaps? So it's not about autotune specifically to this or any album, but rather suggesting Brian needs the help to put across a competent vocal these days?

If that's it, if suggesting Brian isn't able to cut it vocally and needs the help, and this is some if not most of what's behind all of this autotune bullshit, I'll call it out as the nonsense it truly is.

So if *he* needs autotune, then who doesn't in contrast? Let's see what that answer will be.

Whoa guitarfool, my friend, step off the pedal a little bit. There's no need in crusading against the naysayers. There's been prejudice and a-priori observation in this place since the days when Chuck Le Page was around. It's part of our human condition... adopting a virtual identity to make virtual points against certain people. Happens everywhere actually, in every realm of human endeavor, most particularly the internet. Crusading against injustice is a very humane attitude, but it's important to know when to stop. Points were proven. You wrote your own lengthy review, which is available for anyone to read, and it even enhanced more than one listening experience. Moderate yourself, moderator.

No need to make it personal toward me, and I don't need the advice. I'll say what's on my mind, and speak for myself. This isn't about moderating at all, it's about seeing what's going on as someone who has been an active member since the beginning. And I'm speaking for myself.

There are specific issues in play here, and this feels like the right discussion to put them on the table. Like it or not.

[ForHerCryingSoul]

There are specific issues in play here, and this feels like the right discussion to put them on the table. Like it or not.

I don't understand the issue.  I have not been around this board, even lurking, since the beginning...  Can you explain please? 

[Cam Mott]

So have Brian and/or Joe said that ottotoon was used on the album or not?

[guitarfool2002]

FWIW, I'm not taking a side in the pitch correcting debate.  I've only listened to the available tracks on my cell phone, which is no way to listen to music.  I just think this debate borders on ridiculous.

EoL

You listen to music on a fucking cell phone. And you have the gawl to put down Tansen for something you can't hear anyway. He has every right to either support or not support his claim that Tunafish exists on NPP. He has as much right as you taking the time out of your busy schedule insisting that he take time to prove it. He doesn't need to prove anything. If he says he hears it, he hears it - trust him. BFD if you disagree. You don't need a professional or educated ear to hear anamolies with the production. And the debate over Autotune is ridiculous? No more than it is with your ridiculous post dogpiling on him for his sincere belief concerning the existence of pitch correction. It sounds like you indeed are taking sides with this issue. Go listen to NPP on a halfway decent stereo system with both of your ears or headphones before making comments, Mr. Audiophile.

So if I owned a restaurant, and someone were to go on Yelp and post a negative review saying my food was cold, overly salted, and used too much garlic, even if none of the claims were true I would have to just accept those opinions as "true" facts representing my restaurant simply because that negative reviewer says he tasted too much salt and garlic and his food was cold? What if none of my recipes used garlic, and what if the dish he sampled didn't use salt? And what if I personally prepared that man's dish and ensured it was served hot?

I'd at least ask that reviewer what dish he had, when he was there, whatever the case to at least try to understand where the criticism was coming from. That would be fair, I'd think. If that's not the belief, than anyone would have the right to criticize anyone or anything without any recourse at all, and anyone looking to denigrate or criticize someone or something could just fire away at will, and not need either the burden or proof or even the truth as a factor to support the claims. At least offer something concrete to back up the criticism to be fair all around.

[guitarfool2002]

There are specific issues in play here, and this feels like the right discussion to put them on the table. Like it or not.

I don't understand the issue.  I have not been around this board, even lurking, since the beginning...  Can you explain please? 

Will do. Explanation to follow.

[Jim V.]

So have Brian and/or Joe said that ottotoon was used on the album or not?

Can I ask why it even matters to you, Mr. Cruz? As you've admitted, you don't care for solo stuff by any of the Beach Boys. You also admit you haven't listened to the album. Therefore, it's hard to understand why you even care about the use of "autotune" on an album you claim to not care about? Is it possible you are just keeping this "autotune" line of attack alive just to knock Brian down a few pegs?