Many Negative Reviews of No Pier Pressure...

[Gerry]

GhostyTMRS  your comment is right on the money.

[Gerry]

I can't wait for the movie to come out so some of the experts here can sh*t all over that

[tansen]

I dare any sound engineer on this board to tell me with a straight face that no vocals have been pitched on this album. It's crazy how some people in this thread proclaim no  has been used on this album, just because their ears aren't trained to detect it. Or the ones that start anal discussions about how it was not the  brand that was used.  is synonymous with pitched vocals and that's what we're talking about. Sorry for the rant, but knowing a lot about this stuff from working in professional sound studios all the time, it just irritates me to see this.

Word. There is so much pitching going on, it's out of this world. Further more, I'm sorry, but to me this album is unlistenable. I bought it for "In the Back of My Mind".

Back up the claim with examples so some of us can hear what you're saying? I have the album, most of us do, give me a few track times and phrases to key in on and I'll listen with my AKG studio 'phones.

Fair enough?

I'll try to find some time to do that guitarfool, but mind you it's not a prioritized task considering that I find the songwriting quite bad. But tuning has been used pretty much throughout the whole album, not by autotuning it I suspect, but manually in Melodyne or the likes. The anchor point for me is not the tuning however, but the overall (IMO) bad songwriting and production.

PS! I have four years in sound engineering school, and hold both a diploma and a bachelor in sound technology if it makes any difference.

[Larry Franz]

Cent #1:

You know, despite the fact that there are 5 or 6 guest singers on this album, there are still 10 songs with Brian/Al/Blondie. Throw in Half Moon Bay and you have a full album right there.

I listened to the 11 song mini-album yesterday. First impression: Simpler production. More contemplative. There would be fewer complaints about it. Although it's terrific, I still love the full enchilada.

Cent #2:

Essentially, NPP is Son of TWGMTR . With guests. A BW/JT album.

I see it like that as well. But with the difference that all that people disliked about TWGMTR has been taken a couple of steps further on NPP. The pitching of vocals, the AC sounds etc. And the strongest songs aren't nearly as strong IMO. There's no stone cold classic on this record.

All that people disliked about TWGMTR? Maybe NPP should have way more songs about getting back to the beach? "The good times will never end"? TWGMTR is a collection of songs. NPP with either 11 tracks or 16 is a cohesive album. I recommend relaxing and listening to it from beginning to end without worrying about the details.

[wilsonart1]

The Lovin Spoonful stated " Did you ever  have to make up your mind"!  Brian's work in a way is picking that favorite girl for prom, for a life partner.  Each of us (fans) have a song we favor over others on this new release.  Mine is Sat. night.  I don't know why, this girl just turns my crank.  Don't worry about reviews! Pet Sounds sucked to many of these people. Find your  date and never forget her.  Plenty of choices on NPP.  Brian"s angelic soul just brings a private joy to so many.  We seem to want everyone to love Brian as much as we do/ The slap in his face affects us.  Don't worry, plenty of joy is coming his way. My speakers are getting a good workout.

[guitarfool2002]

I dare any sound engineer on this board to tell me with a straight face that no vocals have been pitched on this album. It's crazy how some people in this thread proclaim no  has been used on this album, just because their ears aren't trained to detect it. Or the ones that start anal discussions about how it was not the  brand that was used.  is synonymous with pitched vocals and that's what we're talking about. Sorry for the rant, but knowing a lot about this stuff from working in professional sound studios all the time, it just irritates me to see this.

Word. There is so much pitching going on, it's out of this world. Further more, I'm sorry, but to me this album is unlistenable. I bought it for "In the Back of My Mind".

Back up the claim with examples so some of us can hear what you're saying? I have the album, most of us do, give me a few track times and phrases to key in on and I'll listen with my AKG studio 'phones.

Fair enough?

I'll try to find some time to do that guitarfool, but mind you it's not a prioritized task considering that I find the songwriting quite bad. But tuning has been used pretty much throughout the whole album, not by autotuning it I suspect, but manually in Melodyne or the likes. The anchor point for me is not the tuning however, but the overall (IMO) bad songwriting and production.

PS! I have four years in sound engineering school, and hold both a diploma and a bachelor in sound technology if it makes any difference.

No difference to me, never was in the first place - I wasn't the one who issued the original "dare" for sound engineers to chime in, that was Yorick. Take it up with him. I took up this dare and listed what's in my background regarding these sound issues as a direct reply.

Replying to your post directly, I asked for just a few examples of where you heard this "pitching" going on to the extent that it led you to post what you did. Not a full exploration of every phrase on the album, but if you're hearing this pitch correction to the point it is out of this world and to lead you to comment as you did using the word "unlistenable", I have to assume since you didn't mention the writing at all but rather the "pitching", that you had a few triggers that set you off while listening.

Just give us a few so we can understand where you're coming from with that level of criticism. It's not a lot to ask considering the tone of your post and the wording used.

Songwriting - Now the goalposts are being moved and the focus of criticism has changed entirely. Is it now that aspect of the album that makes it "unlistenable" for you? Because your original reply to Yorick seemed to agree with him on pitch correction being the most egregious point of criticism, to the point it was "unlistenable" and so much pitch correction was done to make it out of this world with its aftereffects on the tracks and songs in general.

Not a word was mentioned about the quality of songwriting until I asked for some examples of what I assumed you were keying in on to declare it unlistenable, and that was Yorick's points about pitch correction, which he issued as a dare for other sound engineers to debate.

If it's the use of pitch correction, at least give us a few - not all - examples of where we can hear what you're hearing as a negative. If it's more the songwriting quality overall than the pitch correction, that's a separate issue which is more subjective and formed on opinion which is a totally different type of discussion. I can't prove to others what is or isn't a "good" song to the point where it becomes fact that "this is a good song because...etc". I can't ask for examples of where or why a song isn't "good" as many so-called legendary songs may not be good songs to everyone, obviously.

So which is it? Pitch correction or songwriting that makes NPP unlistenable? One of those has an opportunity to offer examples and debate them. The other is far more opinion-driven and subjective depending on who is discussing it. Let's keep the game on the same playing field at least. That's not a lot to ask.

[rab2591]

Essentially, NPP is Son of TWGMTR . With guests. A BW/JT album.

I see it like that as well. But with the difference that all that people disliked about TWGMTR has been taken a couple of steps further on NPP. The pitching of vocals, the AC sounds etc. And the strongest songs aren't nearly as strong IMO. There's no stone cold classic on this record.

All that people disliked about TWGMTR? Maybe NPP should have way more songs about getting back to the beach? "The good times will never end"? TWGMTR is a collection of songs. NPP with either 11 tracks or 16 is a cohesive album. I recommend relaxing and listening to it from beginning to end without worrying about the details.

THIS. TWGMTR is a compromise album - and it sounds like one. NPP on the other hand sounds very cohesive to my ears.

Frankly I could care less about "stone cold classics"....Hell, Friends really has no classics (barring Busy Doin Nothing, but outside of this circle it isn't really consider a classic) yet it is the 2nd favorite BB album of many a fan here. Like Mr. Franz says, relax and listen without worrying about the details.

[tansen]

I dare any sound engineer on this board to tell me with a straight face that no vocals have been pitched on this album. It's crazy how some people in this thread proclaim no  has been used on this album, just because their ears aren't trained to detect it. Or the ones that start anal discussions about how it was not the  brand that was used.  is synonymous with pitched vocals and that's what we're talking about. Sorry for the rant, but knowing a lot about this stuff from working in professional sound studios all the time, it just irritates me to see this.

Word. There is so much pitching going on, it's out of this world. Further more, I'm sorry, but to me this album is unlistenable. I bought it for "In the Back of My Mind".

Back up the claim with examples so some of us can hear what you're saying? I have the album, most of us do, give me a few track times and phrases to key in on and I'll listen with my AKG studio 'phones.

Fair enough?

I'll try to find some time to do that guitarfool, but mind you it's not a prioritized task considering that I find the songwriting quite bad. But tuning has been used pretty much throughout the whole album, not by autotuning it I suspect, but manually in Melodyne or the likes. The anchor point for me is not the tuning however, but the overall (IMO) bad songwriting and production.

PS! I have four years in sound engineering school, and hold both a diploma and a bachelor in sound technology if it makes any difference.

No difference to me, never was in the first place - I wasn't the one who issued the original "dare" for sound engineers to chime in, that was Yorick. Take it up with him. I took up this dare and listed what's in my background regarding these sound issues as a direct reply.

Replying to your post directly, I asked for just a few examples of where you heard this "pitching" going on to the extent that it led you to post what you did. Not a full exploration of every phrase on the album, but if you're hearing this pitch correction to the point it is out of this world and to lead you to comment as you did using the word "unlistenable", I have to assume since you didn't mention the writing at all but rather the "pitching", that you had a few triggers that set you off while listening.

Just give us a few so we can understand where you're coming from with that level of criticism. It's not a lot to ask considering the tone of your post and the wording used.

Songwriting - Now the goalposts are being moved and the focus of criticism has changed entirely. Is it now that aspect of the album that makes it "unlistenable" for you? Because your original reply to Yorick seemed to agree with him on pitch correction being the most egregious point of criticism, to the point it was "unlistenable" and so much pitch correction was done to make it out of this world with its aftereffects on the tracks and songs in general.

Not a word was mentioned about the quality of songwriting until I asked for some examples of what I assumed you were keying in on to declare it unlistenable, and that was Yorick's points about pitch correction, which he issued as a dare for other sound engineers to debate.

If it's the use of pitch correction, at least give us a few - not all - examples of where we can hear what you're hearing as a negative. If it's more the songwriting quality overall than the pitch correction, that's a separate issue which is more subjective and formed on opinion which is a totally different type of discussion. I can't prove to others what is or isn't a "good" song to the point where it becomes fact that "this is a good song because...etc". I can't ask for examples of where or why a song isn't "good" as many so-called legendary songs may not be good songs to everyone, obviously.

So which is it? Pitch correction or songwriting that makes NPP unlistenable? One of those has an opportunity to offer examples and debate them. The other is far more opinion-driven and subjective depending on who is discussing it. Let's keep the game on the same playing field at least. That's not a lot to ask.

Wow! Dude, let's not try to over analyze everything here! I agreed with Yorick in the fact that pitch correction software has been used heavily on the vocals on this album, 'out of this world' was perhaps strong wording. The album being unlistenable was a comment on the songwriting and the album overall - hence the 'Further more' comment. Maybe it's not a lot to ask, but I do not feel the need to explain myself to you at all. You just ended this conversation.

[guitarfool2002]

I ended it how exactly, by asking you to point out few examples of this pitch correction that you mentioned so strongly in criticizing the album?

Is it too much to ask you to provide a few examples so we can also try to hear what you're hearing as a negative about the album? Is it really that much to ask to give examples of what led you to tell everyone here what is wrong with the album in no uncertain terms?

[tansen]

I ended it how exactly, by asking you to point out few examples of this pitch correction that you mentioned so strongly in criticizing the album?

Is it too much to ask you to provide a few examples so we can also try to hear what you're hearing as a negative about the album? Is it really that much to ask to give examples of what led you to tell everyone here what is wrong with the album in no uncertain terms?

If you read my original post, you will find that I wrote that I will try to provide you with some examples, but it's not high on my priority list, considering it will force me to listen more to an album I find quite unlistenable. So yes, at this very moment, it is too much to ask.

[Cam Mott]

Can someone ask Brian or Joe if OTTOTOON was used and how much, if at all?

[guitarfool2002]

I ended it how exactly, by asking you to point out few examples of this pitch correction that you mentioned so strongly in criticizing the album?

Is it too much to ask you to provide a few examples so we can also try to hear what you're hearing as a negative about the album? Is it really that much to ask to give examples of what led you to tell everyone here what is wrong with the album in no uncertain terms?

If you read my original post, you will find that I wrote that I will try to provide you with some examples, but it's not high on my priority list. So yes, at this very moment, it is too much to ask.

Your own reply:

"Maybe it's not a lot to ask, but I do not feel the need to explain myself to you at all. You just ended this conversation."

You should consider explaining yourself to those who read your comments here about pitch correction and how the album is "unlistenable", and take me out of the equation entirely. Just explain what you said to those reading the comments and offer a chance to hear what you found so objectionable to call it unlistenable. Because it went from pitch correction, to songwriting, from not needing to explain yourself, to now trying to provide examples for board members to explain yourself, from saying it's not a lot to ask, to now clarifying how it is too much to ask just now...

I'm replying to what I'm reading, that's all. And it's spinning around in many different directions at this point.

[guitarfool2002]

Can someone ask Brian or Joe if OTTOTOON was used and how much, if at all?

Cam, do you hear autotune on the album? If so, are there any times you can point to on the album where it was either a distraction or a negative that affected your enjoyment of any given song?

[CenturyDeprived]

Can someone ask Brian or Joe if OTTOTOON was used and how much, if at all?

I'm certain it was (or a similar program) used, just as I feel pretty certain it's a question that won't get answered completely honestly or directly. It's not something most artists/producers are exactly proud to admit.

[Autotune]

Can someone ask Brian or Joe if OTTOTOON was used and how much, if at all?

Brian mentioned pitch correction in a recent interview. I have no problem with it, and neirher does him apparently. Truth is:

1. In the studio, calm and with unlimited number of attempts Brian's vocals are usually better than during concerts.

2. As compelling a singing artist as he is in so many ways, as a live singer he's a very pitchy, sometimes halting, sometimes off beat singer. It's hard to find an amateur recording of an excellent, professional, live vocal from him from the last 15 years or so. Heck-- 30+ years or so. There are, yes, but very few. Therefore, for me, it's hard to think that the same guy that delivers one sloppy lead after another during his shows, is able to generate, unaided by sound edition or pitch correction of some sort, these very fine, flawless vocals we find on recent albums. Then comes the issue of ethics-- I have no problem with enhancement of any kind; and then comes the issue with pitch-correction marring your listening experience... I listen to NPP without any problem whatsoever; am very pleased with it and am stunned by the expressive fragilty of this 72 year old living miracle.

[Cam Mott]

I don't have a problem with it either. A guy has a right to tune his album however he wants imo.

[guitarfool2002]

So the issue could be trying to find out where these instances of people hearing it to the point where it becomes such a distraction or such an obvious use to diminish the overall presentation of the music itself are originating.

In other words, it's simple question of where are those people who are using this as a primary point in criticizing the album actually hearing it on this album? And where specifically can it be pointed to for others to listen with a critical ear which would explain the whole use of autotune critique in general for others who want to hear what is triggering the level of negativity that some are expressing related to overuse of pitch correction on this specific production.

[tansen]

I ended it how exactly, by asking you to point out few examples of this pitch correction that you mentioned so strongly in criticizing the album?

Is it too much to ask you to provide a few examples so we can also try to hear what you're hearing as a negative about the album? Is it really that much to ask to give examples of what led you to tell everyone here what is wrong with the album in no uncertain terms?

If you read my original post, you will find that I wrote that I will try to provide you with some examples, but it's not high on my priority list. So yes, at this very moment, it is too much to ask.

Your own reply:

"Maybe it's not a lot to ask, but I do not feel the need to explain myself to you at all. You just ended this conversation."

You should consider explaining yourself to those who read your comments here about pitch correction and how the album is "unlistenable", and take me out of the equation entirely. Just explain what you said to those reading the comments and offer a chance to hear what you found so objectionable to call it unlistenable. Because it went from pitch correction, to songwriting, from not needing to explain yourself, to now trying to provide examples for board members to explain yourself, from saying it's not a lot to ask, to now clarifying how it is too much to ask just now...

I'm replying to what I'm reading, that's all. And it's spinning around in many different directions at this point.

Wow dude, you really like discussing huh?

I think you rather read my original post wrong, if you put some goodwill in, you can read it as me agreeing with Yorick on pitch shifting, as well as adding a comment about the album further more being unlistenable. That was the intent anyways. And yeah I do not feel the need to explain myself to you, when you clearly did not respect my original reply to you. You are the one who several times have mentioned 'It's not a lot to ask', 'Is it too much to ask..?', and my reply to your was in fact that at this point it definitely is. I'm not sure how you manage to be so confused, but let's leave it at that eh?

[guitarfool2002]

I don't have a problem with it either. A guy has a right to tune his album however he wants imo.

Did you personally hear any obvious uses of pitch correcting on the album to a point where your own ears detected an obvious use of it? If so, did it detract from or otherwise affect your opinion of the music as a whole?

[guitarfool2002]

I ended it how exactly, by asking you to point out few examples of this pitch correction that you mentioned so strongly in criticizing the album?

Is it too much to ask you to provide a few examples so we can also try to hear what you're hearing as a negative about the album? Is it really that much to ask to give examples of what led you to tell everyone here what is wrong with the album in no uncertain terms?

If you read my original post, you will find that I wrote that I will try to provide you with some examples, but it's not high on my priority list. So yes, at this very moment, it is too much to ask.

Your own reply:

"Maybe it's not a lot to ask, but I do not feel the need to explain myself to you at all. You just ended this conversation."

You should consider explaining yourself to those who read your comments here about pitch correction and how the album is "unlistenable", and take me out of the equation entirely. Just explain what you said to those reading the comments and offer a chance to hear what you found so objectionable to call it unlistenable. Because it went from pitch correction, to songwriting, from not needing to explain yourself, to now trying to provide examples for board members to explain yourself, from saying it's not a lot to ask, to now clarifying how it is too much to ask just now...

I'm replying to what I'm reading, that's all. And it's spinning around in many different directions at this point.

Wow dude, you really like discussing huh?

I think you rather read my original post wrong, if you put some goodwill in, you can read it as me agreeing with Yorick on pitch shifting, as well as adding a comment about the album further more being unlistenable. That was the intent anyways. And yeah I do not feel the need to explain myself to you, when you clearly did not respect my original reply to you. You are the one who several times have mentioned 'It's not a lot to ask', 'Is it too much to ask..?', and my reply to your was in fact that at this point it definitely is. I'm not sure how you manage to be so confused, but let's leave it at that eh?

Give us a few examples from the album where pitch correction was such an issue for your listening experience, so we can try to understand where your comments were coming from.

[tansen]

I ended it how exactly, by asking you to point out few examples of this pitch correction that you mentioned so strongly in criticizing the album?

Is it too much to ask you to provide a few examples so we can also try to hear what you're hearing as a negative about the album? Is it really that much to ask to give examples of what led you to tell everyone here what is wrong with the album in no uncertain terms?

If you read my original post, you will find that I wrote that I will try to provide you with some examples, but it's not high on my priority list. So yes, at this very moment, it is too much to ask.

Your own reply:

"Maybe it's not a lot to ask, but I do not feel the need to explain myself to you at all. You just ended this conversation."

You should consider explaining yourself to those who read your comments here about pitch correction and how the album is "unlistenable", and take me out of the equation entirely. Just explain what you said to those reading the comments and offer a chance to hear what you found so objectionable to call it unlistenable. Because it went from pitch correction, to songwriting, from not needing to explain yourself, to now trying to provide examples for board members to explain yourself, from saying it's not a lot to ask, to now clarifying how it is too much to ask just now...

I'm replying to what I'm reading, that's all. And it's spinning around in many different directions at this point.

Wow dude, you really like discussing huh?

I think you rather read my original post wrong, if you put some goodwill in, you can read it as me agreeing with Yorick on pitch shifting, as well as adding a comment about the album further more being unlistenable. That was the intent anyways. And yeah I do not feel the need to explain myself to you, when you clearly did not respect my original reply to you. You are the one who several times have mentioned 'It's not a lot to ask', 'Is it too much to ask..?', and my reply to your was in fact that at this point it definitely is. I'm not sure how you manage to be so confused, but let's leave it at that eh?

Give us a few examples from the album where pitch correction was such an issue for your listening experience, so we can try to understand where your comments were coming from.

Go back to my original reply to you, and you have your answer.

[Cam Mott]

I don't have a problem with it either. A guy has a right to tune his album however he wants imo.

Did you personally hear any obvious uses of pitch correcting on the album to a point where your own ears detected an obvious use of it? If so, did it detract from or otherwise affect your opinion of the music as a whole?

I don't have the album yet, just heard the released tracks and clips. Not a big fan of any of the solo stuff by any of the group.

I don't hear it but I'm not listening for it and might not even recognize it if I heard it. But even though it is there and if I did hear it, it would just be the way it was meant to be to me. Though I may not personally be a fan, who cares. I'm happy for Brian and happy that Brian is happy.

[Jim V.]

I don't have a problem with it either. A guy has a right to tune his album however he wants imo.

Did you personally hear any obvious uses of pitch correcting on the album to a point where your own ears detected an obvious use of it? If so, did it detract from or otherwise affect your opinion of the music as a whole?

I don't have the album yet, just heard the released tracks and clips. Not a big fan of any of the solo stuff by any the group.

I don't hear it but I'm not listening for it and might not even recognize it if I heard it. But even though it is there and if I did hear it, it would just be the way it was meant to be to me. Though I may not personally be a fan, who cares. I'm happy for Brian and happy that Brian is happy.

So you're commenting in a thread about an album you haven't heard.

Here's an idea. Procure the album, which has FOUR Beach Boys on it (so its hardly your average solo album) and decide for yourself how well the "autotune" was used. After listening, feel free to add to the discussion.

Otherwise, it seems like you just jumped in here with the "autotune" question just to stir up some sh*t.

[Wirestone]

In other words, the tuning is so awful that the people who hear it can't point to a single place where it's used.

Can we say agenda again, kids?

[Cam Mott]

I don't have a problem with it either. A guy has a right to tune his album however he wants imo.

Did you personally hear any obvious uses of pitch correcting on the album to a point where your own ears detected an obvious use of it? If so, did it detract from or otherwise affect your opinion of the music as a whole?

I don't have the album yet, just heard the released tracks and clips. Not a big fan of any of the solo stuff by any the group.

I don't hear it but I'm not listening for it and might not even recognize it if I heard it. But even though it is there and if I did hear it, it would just be the way it was meant to be to me. Though I may not personally be a fan, who cares. I'm happy for Brian and happy that Brian is happy.

So you're commenting in a thread about an album you haven't heard.

Here's an idea. Procure the album, which has FOUR Beach Boys on it (so its hardly your average solo album) and decide for yourself how well the "autotune" was used. After listening, feel free to add to the discussion.

Otherwise, it seems like you just jumped in here with the "autotune" question just to stir up some sh*t.

I commented on asking those involved if there even was any ottotune. I gave an opinion on ottotune in general. I gave a qualified response to a direct question.

You did read it, right?