Ponostore version of NPP now available

[OGoldin]

As of this morning the high resolution version of NPP is now available on ponostore.  96.0kHz/24bit flac, deluxe version.  I haven't heard the high res version yet, am downloading now.  only $17.99 which is really a good price, considering how much such things usually go for, on ponostore (Surf's Up for example is $29.99, for much less music).

[Wrightfan]

Thought this said "pornostore" 

[Scotty]

@OGoldin
Could you please check the DR (dynamic range) of the 24/96 flac files? Many thanks in advance.

[OGoldin]

@OGoldin
Could you please check the DR (dynamic range) of the 24/96 flac files? Many thanks in advance.

I can't find those numbers, except something on the store site indicating that the ponostore takes the best masters they are given.  That is to say, 24 bit allows for more dynamic range, but whether a given file has that is in the hands of the record company, not the store.

That's a common criticism of Neil Young's ponostore -- that is emphasizes bit rate, while dynamic range might be more important.  Whether the bit rate difference is audible -- this is very controversial.  For me, it feels different, the way a live instrument feels different.  And yes I think there is more life and clarity.  But only with good speakers.  And I confess that I haven't done a blind test  yet.  I am hoping to have my wife help me with a blind test, soon.

[Bud Shaver]

This aural butt sniffing is better suited for the Steve Hoffman boards. Let me know if the breath of life rears its ugly head...

[runnersdialzero]

This aural butt sniffing is better suited for the Steve Hoffman boards. Let me know if the breath of life rears its ugly head...

Maybe calm down.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Thought this said "pornostore" 

You and me both, bro... you and me both.

[Andrew G. Doe]

This aural butt sniffing is better suited for the Steve Hoffman boards. Let me know if the breath of life rears its ugly head...

Agreed. When people start listening to the signal path and the hardware instead of the music, you know there's a big problem somewhere. Fact is, given the average age of poster here (at a venture, over 50) and the normal degradation of hearing, normal CD encoding is more than adequate. Speaking personally, an Edison cylinder sounds like top-end hi fi. And it's direct cut, too !

[CenturyDeprived]

Thought this said "pornostore" 

You and me both, bro... you and me both.

Me three
I'm pretty sure the pornostore version includes the vocals-only All I Want to Do + Hey Little Tomboy (extended).

[Andrew G. Doe]

I once suggested that the 'tag' of "All I Want To Do", in all its eight-track glory, be a hidden track on a reissue/comp. When the laughing stopped, the notion was respectfully declined.

[Alan Smith]

Speaking personally, an Edison cylinder sounds like top-end hi fi. And it's direct cut, too !

DWM

[CenturyDeprived]

I once suggested that the 'tag' of "All I Want To Do", in all its eight-track glory, be a hidden track on a reissue/comp. When the laughing stopped, the notion was respectfully declined.

Amazing   Makes you wonder what else might be hidden on other dense BB tracks.

As I said in an earlier thread, Dennis quite literally created the 1st knowingly-released celebrity sex tape. I'm sure he'd be proud of that distinction. Wikipedia should be informed.

[stack-o-tracks]

Holy shitballs, $17.99 for a DIGITAL album of music? And they want even more for an album released over 40 years ago? Unless it's a career-spanning box set, I am offended, regardless of which artist or music store offered me computer files of an album of songs that are available in at least 2 other formats that sound equally as good or better.


One of many nails in the coffin of Neil Young's too little, too late high definition audio files store and player. 


I feel bad for anybody who spent money on anything involving this poorly named "Pono"..... It's basically an mp3 player for somebody who doesn't know what a CD or vinyl LP or flac file or smart phone is.

[Awesoman]

It's also on HDTracks for $20.98.  Same quality as the Pono files.  Not sure if there is any other difference except for price.


http://www.hdtracks.com/no-pier-pressure-deluxe

[OGoldin]

AGD, Stack-O-Tracks -- I'd be interested to know if you have heard high resolution music files played on anything better than mid-grade headphones or computer speakers.

There is a difference between hearing a violin live and hearing one on a well recorded cd.  Maybe the difference is not in the ears or neural processing.  Maybe it is more visceral.  I don't know.  But I am convinced that there is a difference and that a high resolution file bridges much of the difference. 

[Dave Modny]

It's also on HDTracks for $20.98.  Same quality as the Pono files.  Not sure if there is any other difference except for price.


http://www.hdtracks.com/no-pier-pressure-deluxe

In this particular case, I'd reckon it's most likely the same cross-platform mastering. A little bird managed to drop the 24/96k HDtracks FLACS into my possession when it was released there last Tuesday, so, at the very least, and "aural sniffing" aside, I can verify that there is actual spectral content of value in most (but not all....the Hollens track for example) of the tracks that extends beyond the Nyquist limit cutoff of the "normal" CD file: For the most part, it's authentic "hi-rez." Doing a quick, down and dirty analysis, that is. There's also some additional exceptions below that HDtracks lists in their footnote.

I should also add that, even if someone doesn't subscribe to the belief that any of this is audible to anyone other than dogs, there's some small historical value in that noted footnote over at HDtracks because it seems to suggest that the two original 24/48k exception tracks they list there, "Don't Worry" and "I'm Feeling Sad," may have a unique recording vintage or location (I'll assume the the 24/44.1k "Sebu" exception track already did, courtesy of the album liner notes). For example, I suppose a 48k sampling rate could suggest a DAT tape origin (16 bit native from older eras...of course) or maybe a home studio setup? Or...maybe not. "Don't Worry" does almost sound like it's from another era or setup. St. Charles, IL era and studio perhaps? All speculation of course. Anyone know for sure?

Also, somewhat strangely, the HDtracks files show more clipping than their respective standard CD files. Not a gross amount....but it's there.

[zachrwolfe]

‍

[Andrew G. Doe]

AGD, Stack-O-Tracks -- I'd be interested to know if you have heard high resolution music files played on anything better than mid-grade headphones or computer speakers.

There is a difference between hearing a violin live and hearing one on a well recorded cd.  Maybe the difference is not in the ears or neural processing.  Maybe it is more visceral.  I don't know.  But I am convinced that there is a difference and that a high resolution file bridges much of the difference. 

Yes, I have. Even with near-perfect hearing there comes a point where you simply cannot hear any difference. You may think you do, perhaps because you've been told you should, but the reality is, you can't. It's a situation analogous to the vinyl enthusiast when they bang on about the "warmth" of the format, much of which is in fact the rumble of the turntable and the stylus scraping the groove.

[Awesoman]

AGD, Stack-O-Tracks -- I'd be interested to know if you have heard high resolution music files played on anything better than mid-grade headphones or computer speakers.

There is a difference between hearing a violin live and hearing one on a well recorded cd.  Maybe the difference is not in the ears or neural processing.  Maybe it is more visceral.  I don't know.  But I am convinced that there is a difference and that a high resolution file bridges much of the difference. 

Yes, I have. Even with near-perfect hearing there comes a point where you simply cannot hear any difference. You may think you do, perhaps because you've been told you should, but the reality is, you can't. It's a situation analogous to the vinyl enthusiast when they bang on about the "warmth" of the format, much of which is in fact the rumble of the turntable and the stylus scraping the groove.

I definitely think the separation is more pronounced on a hi-res sound file when compared to CD-quality.  That being said, at most times the difference can be negligible unless you have really expensive speakers. 

[zachrwolfe]

‍

[Andrew G. Doe]

Fascinating. Thanks.

[Lowbacca]

Thought this said "pornostore" 

Me too! For a moment there I hoped for tracks like "This Beautiful D***" or "S*** Away".

[Dave Modny]

This is a fantastic article on the subject that I'd highly recommend: http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

I don't really have a dog in this debate because: A) I am over 50, B) I do have a good deal of hearing loss and tinnitus, and C) My combative internet days are over (damn...lol!).  

But...there's really two separate issues at hand when one is discussing these so-called audiophile, high-resolution sites like HDtracks and Pono. Obviously, the whole "high-res benefits" thing is going to be debatable, but what's not is the fact that there are often significantly improved, often exclusive remasterings to be had there as well (at least perhaps until they find their way to CD). Namely for certain back catalog items. In some cases, the definitive ones, IMHO (e.g. *some* of the mid- late 70s Chicago titles, the Fleetwood Mac '75 album, Tusk, etc., etc.).

That said, just for giggles, I downsampled the new Brian title to 16/44, applied Replay Gain to level-match and then did a "blind" ABX test in Foobar against the corresponding (also 16/44) CD. And, I'll be damned if I could differentiate any difference in mastering between the two while casual listening in the 16/44 world. Thus, at least in this case, mastering shouldn't be much, if any of a variable (noting again: that, while serviceable, my own hearing isn't quite what it used to be).  

Actually **looking** at the waveforms seems to show a tiny bit of additional limiting in the standard version, and conversely, the aforementioned additional, albeit not-too-serious clipping issue in the other one. In general, the dynamic range of this album is nothing to write home about (i.e. it's pretty loud), though I do still think it's a pretty nice, full sounding record in absolute sonic terms.

[HeyJude]

Sympathetic, warm, often flat tape transfers of old material are often where the "audiophile" benefits become more evident.

It's more in the mastering than the resolution. I know Steve Hoffman is (for some reason) sometimes derided here, but his mastering work on everything I've heard is almost always the go-to mastering. His work on the 70's McCartney stuff, his forays into the BB catalog, those are all top notch. These are all at normal CD resolution. 16/44.1. They sound great because they are mastered well. No noise reduction, quiet enough, and in some cases absolutely flat or near flat (his mastering on ELO's "Eldorado" is a good example of that).

Much like the Beach Boys themselves versus Beach Boys fans, I think the perception of Hoffman in relation to overzealous audiophile wankery has more to do with others that frequent his board. There are some dubious things over that. That you can't ever discuss "double blind testing" is my biggest beef. But I find Hoffman's own words and ethos rather more sensible. I don't always agree with him either.

I think you're more likely to hear a more marked improvement in sound on the recent (and forthcoming) CD/SACD remasters of the old BB catalog stuff.

[OGoldin]

ok we just did a blind test.  my daughter scrambled up four playings of "this beautiful day" -- cd quality and hi res, for my wife and me.  We are both over 50, and my wife is not nearly as into music as I am.  Absolutely no question -- we said hi res, cd quality, cd quality, hi res.  Huge difference.  My wife said "our stereo has never sounded so good."  Try it yourself.  You don't need a ponoplayer to play the flac files, just download the program pono musicworld.  The program is free, the flac files will cost you less than a couple of bucks each.