Guess You Had To Be There

[Wirestone]

Believe me, I'm enjoying and treasuring the music. It's fun sometimes to try poking a little deeper, but it's also great to hear about how the song came together. Thanks for the background, Ray.

[Paul J B]

This is totally a song about the dissolution of the C50 band. In true BW/BB style, the bounciness disguises a lot.

Well I guess you had to be there
Such a different place
I was cruising along
Never thinking that we'd ever change.

Yeah, I guess you had to be there
It was a hell of a ride
Lines were blurry and hurried
But it felt like the stars had aligned

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right before my face
And all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

Well I guess you had to be there
All we wanted was more
There were winners and losers
And people passed out on my floor

And you know you should have called me
For that real good time
Guess you miss some of the gold
When you're too busy chasing the shine

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right in front of my face
Cause all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

(solo)

We were sharing a new day
Sippin' on a new wine
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly mine

And all you ever wanted
Is in right in front of your face
It starts as a good thing
Turns into a headache

How does that line about winners and losers and people passed out on my floor figure into the c50 ? 

[CenturyDeprived]

This is totally a song about the dissolution of the C50 band. In true BW/BB style, the bounciness disguises a lot.

Well I guess you had to be there
Such a different place
I was cruising along
Never thinking that we'd ever change.

Yeah, I guess you had to be there
It was a hell of a ride
Lines were blurry and hurried
But it felt like the stars had aligned

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right before my face
And all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

Well I guess you had to be there
All we wanted was more
There were winners and losers
And people passed out on my floor

And you know you should have called me
For that real good time
Guess you miss some of the gold
When you're too busy chasing the shine

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right in front of my face
Cause all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

(solo)

We were sharing a new day
Sippin' on a new wine
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly mine

And all you ever wanted
Is in right in front of your face
It starts as a good thing
Turns into a headache

Sorry guys but I have to jump in here , as you could not be more off base with this interpetation. This song has zero to do with the C50 breakup , and everything to do with the 64-66 period in BRIAN's life.  When I was out there, Brian had already written the lyrics to the chorus' and then he recorded the chorus vocals. His kids were very into Kacey's record , so he had been listening to it and liked her voice and her lyrics; he really liked the lyrics . The first time they met , she had flown out to LA just to sit and discuss the song with Brian , and what his vision of it was. They talked about how it was when their individual careers got rolling; Brian asked her to write the lyrics for the verses talking about that, which is what you are hearing in the verses. For example, the part " guess you miss some of the gold " ( relationships , friendships, happiness) "when youre too busy chasing the shine" (chasing money and fame).

My recommendation is that you have a good listen to what I think is a great record, and all this distraction from enjoying it turns into a headache.

I am very glad you are here to set us (including me) straight, Ray.

[runnersdialzero]

This autotune thing is hilarious.  It's to the point that reverb gets called Autotune now.  "Oh, he put echo on the girl's vocals, he's touching up her stuff!"  I"m sure he was thinking about touching up her stuff but it had nothing to do with her great voice.

Kacey has a crisp, nicely tuned voice, and more importantly she knows her voice very well.  Most of her songs have little whistles, flourishes she adds in... she's doesn't have the world's greatest voice or even a voice that's anything special, but she knows how to use it competently and knows it's limitations.  Listen how inside the box it is, she's not singing a great range or anything that would need any kind of help with autotune.  It's clearly got a double tracked (triple tracked?) vocal behind the other vocal, with tons of reverb on it to make it sound like the old school reverb or 'slapback' they used in the 50's...  It's not just the effect because at times you can hear the backing vocal come in slightly different than the lead. 

Here's a great video of her singing one of her beautiful songs live:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjeQtRn5euw

Listen to her style: minimal range (because her voice isn't incredibly expansive) but very solid, even tone all through her range, and sweet beautiful melody runs that she's able to keep the same dynamic volume as her other notes.  She has a 'crisp' sound to her speaking, and singing voice which is what you're hearing on Brian's record, covered in reverb to make it even more crisp. 

I'd agree with the other guy, she's proud and actually very technical with her vocals (even live).  To go around saying everybody related to Brian Wilson is slathering autotune on their vocals is insulting and you should be ashamed of it. 

You weren't there. Most of us aren't just looking for autotune. There is a gross, shiny gloss that comes with Joe Thomas' work that serves to cheapen and badly date Brian's work. It's a problem. It's nothing to do with doubling vocals - they've been doing that since the very beginning. Digital is not inherently bad at all, nor is vocal tuning - it's very possibly to do it seamlessly without said gloss. Not all autotune sounds like T-Pain. That's an extreme, but it can also be overdone to the point of creating... well, the previously described gross, shiny gloss on That's Why God Made The Radio and this album.

I'm sorry, Joe Thomas does a very poor job and it's upsetting to see him preserve Brian's work like this. If you think well-meaning people who say "The vocal sounds bad, it's not necessary. I wish Joe Thomas didn't cheapen Brian's music like this" are annoying, then know that these love-it-or-leave-it "THERE'S NO AUTOTUNE, THAT'S A FACT" fingers-in-my-ears-la-la-la posts are much more obnoxious.

[rab2591]

I am very glad you are here to set us (including me) straight, Ray.

Indeed. Thanks Ray!

[Paul J B]

This is totally a song about the dissolution of the C50 band. In true BW/BB style, the bounciness disguises a lot.

Well I guess you had to be there
Such a different place
I was cruising along
Never thinking that we'd ever change.

Yeah, I guess you had to be there
It was a hell of a ride
Lines were blurry and hurried
But it felt like the stars had aligned

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right before my face
And all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

Well I guess you had to be there
All we wanted was more
There were winners and losers
And people passed out on my floor

And you know you should have called me
For that real good time
Guess you miss some of the gold
When you're too busy chasing the shine

We were sharing a new day
Singing a new song
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly gone

Everything I ever wanted
Is right in front of my face
Cause all the beautiful people
Were always at my place

(solo)

We were sharing a new day
Sippin' on a new wine
And everyone's problems
Were suddenly mine

And all you ever wanted
Is in right in front of your face
It starts as a good thing
Turns into a headache

Sorry guys but I have to jump in here , as you could not be more off base with this interpetation. This song has zero to do with the C50 breakup , and everything to do with the 64-66 period in BRIAN's life.  When I was out there, Brian had already written the lyrics to the chorus' and then he recorded the chorus vocals. His kids were very into Kacey's record , so he had been listening to it and liked her voice and her lyrics; he really liked the lyrics . The first time they met , she had flown out to LA just to sit and discuss the song with Brian , and what his vision of it was. They talked about how it was when their individual careers got rolling; Brian asked her to write the lyrics for the verses talking about that, which is what you are hearing in the verses. For example, the part " guess you miss some of the gold " ( relationships , friendships, happiness) "when youre too busy chasing the shine" (chasing money and fame).

My recommendation is that you have a good listen to what I think is a great record, and all this distraction from enjoying it turns into a headache.

Ha! Do you realize how important it was for you to post that response Ray? People here love to spout opinions off as fact and unchallenged it would "become fact". Look at all of the " gee wirestone your right" within such a short time. It would have gone on for pages.

Thanks a million.

[runnersdialzero]

Ha! Do you realize how important it was for you to post that response Ray? People here love to spout opinions off as fact and unchallenged it would "become fact". Look at all of the " gee wirestone your right" within such a short time. It would have gone on for pages.

Thanks a million.

Yeah, differing opinions and insights suck. I just want to be told what every song is about right out of the box, I want everything to be safe and easy to understand, and I want to listen to critically-acclaimed, dignified-feeling classic rock only.

[Paul J B]

Ha! Do you realize how important it was for you to post that response Ray? People here love to spout opinions off as fact and unchallenged it would "become fact". Look at all of the " gee wirestone your right" within such a short time. It would have gone on for pages.

Thanks a million.

Yeah, differing opinions and insights suck. I just want to be told what every song is about right out of the box, I want everything to be safe and easy to understand, and I want to listen to critically-acclaimed, dignified-feeling classic rock only.

Not sure what your problem is but saying a song IS TOTALLY about the c50 by a guy that has been griping about the way it ended for 2 years is not an opinion. Wirestone was spouting it as fact and others hopped on board. That is how myths like "Mike Love killed smile" get/got started.

[Mendota Heights]

Ha! Do you realize how important it was for you to post that response Ray? People here love to spout opinions off as fact and unchallenged it would "become fact". Look at all of the " gee wirestone your right" within such a short time. It would have gone on for pages.

Thanks a million.

Yeah, differing opinions and insights suck. I just want to be told what every song is about right out of the box, I want everything to be safe and easy to understand, and I want to listen to critically-acclaimed, dignified-feeling classic rock only.

We appreciate your insights. What are your insights, by the way? All I hear - and correct me if I am not wrong - is childish complaints. No one is forcing anyone to like these new tracks, don't act like that is the case, we are adults. Seems to me you are playing the victim, a fairly flawed modus operandi if you'd ask me.

Personally I love what I have heard and seen of NPP. When I listen to songs on the radio I hear productions and melodies I don't particularly like. When I listen to NPP I hear catchy melodies and solid vocals (Al, Blondie, Brian, Kacey and Nate) that put a big smile on my face. Most other contemporary songs fail to do so. Brian's still going strong in 2015, he survived all the decades of hardships and he is happy and comfortable with friends/colleagues that he loves and trusts.

Sail Away is BW/BB classic.
Saturday Night is a potential hit.
Runaway Dancer is Brian tapping into modern dance music.
Guess You Had To Be There is an ultra catchy tune with a Grammy Award winning and most lovely and adorable country songstress.

All these songs are so much better than anything I, as a longtime Beach Boys fan, could ever have asked for.

This is the best BW/BB album since Love You. I already look forward to Brian's next album should he be willing to record another one!

[the professor]

frog, the professor agrees with you. What do you think about our special love and the right time? the professor loves these songs in particular, while also loving the others in particular too. I am looking forward to hearing Brian Al and Dave on what ever happened. I wonder why that one has not leaked out. frog, you are very smart, and the professor enjoys your posts.



ote author=Swedish Frog link=topic=20187.msg507182#msg507182 date=1427310239]

Ha! Do you realize how important it was for you to post that response Ray? People here love to spout opinions off as fact and unchallenged it would "become fact". Look at all of the " gee wirestone your right" within such a short time. It would have gone on for pages.

Thanks a million.

Yeah, differing opinions and insights suck. I just want to be told what every song is about right out of the box, I want everything to be safe and easy to understand, and I want to listen to critically-acclaimed, dignified-feeling classic rock only.

We appreciate your insights. What are your insights, by the way? All I hear - and correct me if I am not wrong - is childish complaints. No one is forcing anyone to like these new tracks, don't act like that is the case, we are adults. Seems to me you are playing the victim, a fairly flawed modus operandi if you'd ask me.

Personally I love what I have heard and seen of NPP. When I listen to songs on the radio I hear productions and melodies I don't particularly like. When I listen to NPP I hear catchy melodies and solid vocals (Al, Blondie, Brian, Kacey and Nate) that put a big smile on my face. Most other contemporary songs fail to do so. Brian's still going strong in 2015, he survived all the decades of hardships and he is happy and comfortable with friends/colleagues that he loves and trusts.

Sail Away is BW/BB classic.
Saturday Night is a potential hit.
Runaway Dancer is Brian tapping into modern dance music.
Guess You Had To Be There is an ultra catchy tune with a Grammy Award winning and most lovely and adorable country songstress.

All these songs are so much better than anything I, as a longtime Beach Boys fan, could ever have asked for.

This is the best BW/BB album since Love You. I already look forward to Brian's next album should he be willing to record another one!


[/quote]

[runnersdialzero]

All I hear - and correct me if I am not wrong - is childish complaints.

Sigh. I've made two posts in this thread, one of which was a pretty rational, well-meaning "Calm down, please" post. I never told anyone they couldn't like anything, I was pretty rational, I'm not sure why you're pinning that on me.

I haven't posted often lately. Thanks for making me want to post a little less.

[HeyJude]

Ha! Do you realize how important it was for you to post that response Ray? People here love to spout opinions off as fact and unchallenged it would "become fact". Look at all of the " gee wirestone your right" within such a short time. It would have gone on for pages.

Thanks a million.

I think this makes a bunch of incorrect assumptions:

1. Wirestone was 100% certain WTF the song could mean
2. Folks reading his post would think he was 100% certain
3. Anyone or everyone here is dumb enough to take one person’s opinion and cite it as fact

To recap:

1. I got the impression Wirestone was offering an interpretation; one that was interesting and additionally helpful since we don’t have transcribed lyrics yet
2. Same as above, it’s painfully obvious it’s one interpretation.
3. While I acknowledge that some things on boards (or books) can be misquoted or attributed or misremembered after the fact, I don’t think everybody was getting ready to write a headline story that a song co-written by Kacey Musgraves is a clear tome about C50. The positive comments to Wirestone were, as I saw them, meant to commend an interesting interpretation.

Further, Ray Lawlor isn’t going to be here to tell us how every song was written. We’re going to have to guess. Most of us can wrap our heads around the idea that it’s all theories. To that end, Wirestone’s post was interesting.

I think maybe there’s some sort of weird problem lately here with interpretation of language. If someone says “oh man, that’s *totally* about C50!”, it’s sometimes just a use of language to provide enthusiasm or emphasis or surprise. And guess what? Maybe sometimes someone uses that sort of language and really literally means it! For that matter, someone might read Ray’s explanation and first-hand knowledge and *still* believe there’s another subtext to the lyrics. So what?

Again, inherent in anything we post here is that it’s opinion. Unless it’s something absolutely concrete like release dates or session dates (and even *those* can be debated sometimes!), everything else is ultimately some level of conjecture. Seriously. If Brian released a song called “Mike Love can shove the 50th Up His A**” you’d still have someone claiming Brian was just writing a song about a friendly reminder for Mike to have a 50th colonoscopy.

[RollPlymouthRock]

What do people think, is the last word definitely headache? I originally heard it as habit but I accept that I could be wrong.

[CenturyDeprived]

Ha! Do you realize how important it was for you to post that response Ray? People here love to spout opinions off as fact and unchallenged it would "become fact". Look at all of the " gee wirestone your right" within such a short time. It would have gone on for pages.

Thanks a million.

 If Brian released a song called “Mike Love can shove the 50th Up His A**” you’d still have someone claiming Brian was just writing a song about a friendly reminder for Mike to have a 50th colonoscopy.

 

The sad thing is, you are probably correct in your assumption.

[Wirestone]

HeyJude nailed it. Thanks.

It was, indeed, my enthusiasm for and interpretation of the lyrics that led me to write the way I did.

It has been reported that Brian wrote "The Last Song" about the ending of the C50, so I thought it was possible -- likely, even -- that another song might talk about it as well. I was wrong. It happens. I also thought it was nice to have the lyrics all written out so we could take a look at them.

I've been lucky enough to chat with Ray a few times, and he's a mensch. He's welcome to correct me anytime.

[Les P]

Sorry guys but I have to jump in here , as you could not be more off base with this interpetation. This song has zero to do with the C50 breakup , and everything to do with the 64-66 period in BRIAN's life.  When I was out there, Brian had already written the lyrics to the chorus' and then he recorded the chorus vocals. His kids were very into Kacey's record , so he had been listening to it and liked her voice and her lyrics; he really liked the lyrics . The first time they met , she had flown out to LA just to sit and discuss the song with Brian , and what his vision of it was. They talked about how it was when their individual careers got rolling; Brian asked her to write the lyrics for the verses talking about that, which is what you are hearing in the verses. For example, the part " guess you miss some of the gold " ( relationships , friendships, happiness) "when youre too busy chasing the shine" (chasing money and fame).

My recommendation is that you have a good listen to what I think is a great record, and all this distraction from enjoying it turns into a headache.

Thanks so much for sharing your insight, Ray.   When I read the line "And all the beautiful people / Were always at my place," I immediately flashed back to a "Love and Mercy" scene in Brian's living room, so thanks for confirming that connection!

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Half of this board thinks they're the Sherlock Holmes of autotune. I couldn't give a tuppenny f*** if Brian wants to use modern effects, enhancements or techniques. He's Brian Wilson, I'm not, he knows what he wants his records to sound like. Do these people go to magic shows with the sole intention of figuring out the illusions too? Personally I like to be swept away by the song, it's content and so on. You know, what do the kids call it...er...enjoying it?

+1

  +10   

[startBBtoday]

This autotune thing is hilarious.  It's to the point that reverb gets called Autotune now.  "Oh, he put echo on the girl's vocals, he's touching up her stuff!"  I"m sure he was thinking about touching up her stuff but it had nothing to do with her great voice.

Kacey has a crisp, nicely tuned voice, and more importantly she knows her voice very well.  Most of her songs have little whistles, flourishes she adds in... she's doesn't have the world's greatest voice or even a voice that's anything special, but she knows how to use it competently and knows it's limitations.  Listen how inside the box it is, she's not singing a great range or anything that would need any kind of help with autotune.  It's clearly got a double tracked (triple tracked?) vocal behind the other vocal, with tons of reverb on it to make it sound like the old school reverb or 'slapback' they used in the 50's...  It's not just the effect because at times you can hear the backing vocal come in slightly different than the lead. 

Here's a great video of her singing one of her beautiful songs live:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjeQtRn5euw

Listen to her style: minimal range (because her voice isn't incredibly expansive) but very solid, even tone all through her range, and sweet beautiful melody runs that she's able to keep the same dynamic volume as her other notes.  She has a 'crisp' sound to her speaking, and singing voice which is what you're hearing on Brian's record, covered in reverb to make it even more crisp. 

I'd agree with the other guy, she's proud and actually very technical with her vocals (even live).  To go around saying everybody related to Brian Wilson is slathering autotune on their vocals is insulting and you should be ashamed of it. 

You weren't there. Most of us aren't just looking for autotune. There is a gross, shiny gloss that comes with Joe Thomas' work that serves to cheapen and badly date Brian's work. It's a problem. It's nothing to do with doubling vocals - they've been doing that since the very beginning. Digital is not inherently bad at all, nor is vocal tuning - it's very possibly to do it seamlessly without said gloss. Not all autotune sounds like T-Pain. That's an extreme, but it can also be overdone to the point of creating... well, the previously described gross, shiny gloss on That's Why God Made The Radio and this album.

I'm sorry, Joe Thomas does a very poor job and it's upsetting to see him preserve Brian's work like this. If you think well-meaning people who say "The vocal sounds bad, it's not necessary. I wish Joe Thomas didn't cheapen Brian's music like this" are annoying, then know that these love-it-or-leave-it "THERE'S NO AUTOTUNE, THAT'S A FACT" fingers-in-my-ears-la-la-la posts are much more obnoxious.

Where's the autotune on this track? Not all autotune is as obvious as T-Pain, but if it's on this track then you should be able to detect it. Where is it? What's the time marking on the song?

Vocal gloss is not auto-tune. I hear vocal gloss on Kacey's vocals, but for the life of me, I cannot hear any autotune.

Saying, "you weren't there, so you don't know if there's autotune" seems very strange when there's no evidence of autotune.

[Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll]

Think the mods need to use that board function where a replacement word for autotune, auto-tune or any possible variation is automatically inserted when someone types it. Suggestions?

[bgas]

Think the mods need to use that board function where a replacement word for autotune, auto-tune or any possible variation is automatically inserted when someone types it. Suggestions?

I suggest " Incredible production technique"

[Mendota Heights]

Think the mods need to use that board function where a replacement word for autotune, auto-tune or any possible variation is automatically inserted when someone types it. Suggestions?

I suggest " Incredible production technique"

Acronym: IPT.
Example: "I hear IPT on this track."

[alf wiedersehen]

That's a little 1984-ish.

[runnersdialzero]

Think the mods need to use that board function where a replacement word for autotune, auto-tune or any possible variation is automatically inserted when someone types it. Suggestions?

Yeah, good idea, let's stifle (mostly) constructive criticism, with the music's best interest in mind, of everything. Maybe change the board theme to be a bit cheerier, maybe a nice blue color, and at the top they can rename it the "Love it or leave it, asshole" message board in bold, red Comic Sans font.

[runnersdialzero]

Where's the autotune on this track? Not all autotune is as obvious as T-Pain, but if it's on this track then you should be able to detect it. Where is it? What's the time marking on the song?

Vocal gloss is not auto-tune. I hear vocal gloss on Kacey's vocals, but for the life of me, I cannot hear any autotune.

Saying, "you weren't there, so you don't know if there's autotune" seems very strange when there's no evidence of autotune.

The totally garbled, warbly sheen over the entire vocal of this song (and every other song that's surfaced, while admittedly much worse on every other song. Especially Brian's vocals, which is telling), only achieved by this particular effect and not multitracking, digital reverb, etc. etc. etc. and that's already heavily present on every one of Joe's productions for Brian in the last few years?

I can admit I wasn't there and say I could be wrong. Some folks on the other side of the fence refuse to be wrong and saying things like "these are the facts" and "you should be ashamed" etc. and using it "prove" they're right about this. It's like when kids angrily say "AND THAT'S FINAL" because they're out of things to say and just want to shut the conversation down.

[SloopJohnB]

(...)