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Author Topic: The Mark Linett Thread  (Read 154441 times)
DonnyL
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« Reply #375 on: June 04, 2008, 05:06:05 PM »

when did they go to 24 track? mid 70s?  also, what decks were they using in the late 60s? was the 8 track an Ampex and did it run @ 15 ips?  I would think that Sunflower would be the 1st album done at 30 ips and some of those tracks were bounced from 15 ips 8 track tapes?

do you or anyone else know what type of tapes the beach boys recorded on over the years (as in brand and forumlation)?  I would suspect Scotch 206 or Ampex 406 from late 60s through mid 70s, then scotch 250 or ampex 456.  I have no idea what they would have used prior to 1969 though.  I would also be interested in finding out if the final mixes are on a different type of tape than the multi-track masters.

thanks
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« Reply #376 on: June 04, 2008, 07:21:36 PM »

According to Steve, the multis were done at 30ips and the two track masters were both 30 and 15 under his tenure.

Steve seemed to like 3M tape machines, but I don't know exactly all what was used over the course of the late 60s.

Desper liked AGFA tape, but I saw plenty of Scotch...some Ampex, I don't remember everything.  Boyd would be the one to ask, and of course this thread's eponym would know about that too.

They seemed to go 24 in the 73-74 era, and were certainly all established in 24-track by 15 Big Ones, but I remember seeing some 24-track sheets pre-that album.
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DonnyL
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« Reply #377 on: June 05, 2008, 06:56:03 AM »

awesome ... thanks for the info.  i tried in vain to find info on the various types of tapes used by the group and there is none out there ... kind of a lost art i guess

I agree with Desper about the AGFA; Quantegy/Ampex, 3M/Scotch, and everybody else are out of the tape business, but the AGFA formulations are still around (under the name RMGI), one of only 2 companies still producing tape and the only one that still uses the classic formula.

do you know if FRIENDS was recorded at 30 ips?  so, 20/20 and the 8-track songs from SUNFLOWER were recorded at 30 ips on the multi-tracks?  I know the Beatles used 15 ips, even in '69 (sometimes even 7.5 ips).

SMILEY SMILE and WILD HONEY were 8 track 15 ips, right?



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« Reply #378 on: June 15, 2008, 10:06:04 PM »

Mark -

The She Knows Me remix from the new box set gave me chills.  Well done!
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RONDEMON
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« Reply #379 on: June 16, 2008, 08:54:45 PM »

So with new stereo remixes of When I Grow Up and She Knows Me To Well, how close are we to a Stereo "Today"?
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« Reply #380 on: June 16, 2008, 09:38:30 PM »

Using official material, not that close.  Summer Days is closer,

"Do You Wanna Dance?" and "Good to My Baby" are is stereo track only,

"When I Grow Up","Dance, Dance, Dance","Please Let Me Wonder","Kiss Me, Baby","She Knows Me Too Well" have the full remix treatment, leaving "Don't Hurt My Little Sister", "Help Me, Ronda", "I'm So Young", "In the Back of My Mind", and, uh, Bull Session.

   

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PhilCohen
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« Reply #381 on: June 17, 2008, 03:58:58 PM »

Using official material, not that close.  Summer Days is closer,

"Do You Wanna Dance?" and "Good to My Baby" are is stereo track only,

"When I Grow Up","Dance, Dance, Dance","Please Let Me Wonder","Kiss Me, Baby","She Knows Me Too Well" have the full remix treatment, leaving "Don't Hurt My Little Sister", "Help Me, Ronda", "I'm So Young", "In the Back of My Mind", and, uh, Bull Session.

 But you're ignoring the existance of unofficially released stereo mixes.  


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« Reply #382 on: June 17, 2008, 06:43:11 PM »


 But you're ignoring the existance of unofficially released stereo mixes.  



Using unofficial stereo mixes, one can make a complete (although somewhat convoluted) Today/Summer Days stereo twofer.

In fact, just after I downloaded She Knows Me and When I Grow Up from Amazon.com (best $1.98 I ever spent in my life!), I was inspired to construct my own stereo version of T/SDSN.

Where there weren't official mixes I used various fanmixes.  I dropped Bull Session and I'm Bugged and substituted a stereo fanmixed Little Girl I Once Knew and the Graduation Day bonus track  (remember, I said this was MY version).

The only trouble I had was with Girl Don't Tell Me.  Every stereo attempt I've heard has serious issues.  So I just stuck with the original mono mix on that one.

Even though the sound quality varies throughout, it's a fun listen.

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PhilCohen
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« Reply #383 on: June 18, 2008, 10:20:06 AM »


 But you're ignoring the existance of unofficially released stereo mixes.  



Using unofficial stereo mixes, one can make a complete (although somewhat convoluted) Today/Summer Days stereo twofer.

In fact, just after I downloaded She Knows Me and When I Grow Up from Amazon.com (best $1.98 I ever spent in my life!), I was inspired to construct my own stereo version of T/SDSN.

Where there weren't official mixes I used various fanmixes.  I dropped Bull Session and I'm Bugged and substituted a stereo fanmixed Little Girl I Once Knew and the Graduation Day bonus track  (remember, I said this was MY version).

The only trouble I had was with Girl Don't Tell Me.  Every stereo attempt I've heard has serious issues.  So I just stuck with the original mono mix on that one.

Even though the sound quality varies throughout, it's a fun listen.


"Girl Don't Tell Me" had several live during mixdown overdubs on the original mono mix. A matching stereo mix isn't possible.
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Ebb and Flow
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« Reply #384 on: June 18, 2008, 11:34:02 PM »

I've got a question about the new mix of When I Grow Up (To Be A Man) on the singles box.  There were two vocal overdubs for the song, so why aren't the vocals spread out to stereo in this new mix?  Was this purely a mixing choice on your part, or were there elements missing that made such a mix impossible?

Same question for the remix of All Summer Long on the recent WOTS comp.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 11:35:53 PM by Ebb and Flow » Logged
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« Reply #385 on: June 19, 2008, 11:03:34 AM »

Mark -

The She Knows Me remix from the new box set gave me chills.  Well done!
So you don't mind all the missing original guitar parts after the solo? Major omission. IMO, either Mr. Linett should not have remixed it, "flown in" the parts from the original mono (like he did for Mike's vocal in the bridge of "Wouldn't It Be Nice"), or let us know that there were going to be significant elements missing from the new remix of this song (be it here, beforehand, or in the notes on the box set)...

I wonder if this was a factor in not including this song on "The Warmth Of The Sun" compilation?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 11:08:06 AM by mjd180 » Logged
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« Reply #386 on: June 19, 2008, 10:24:52 PM »

Warning...we have just entered the Historical Accuracy Zone.  Fasten your seatbelts, it could be a bumpy ride...
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PhilCohen
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« Reply #387 on: June 20, 2008, 10:07:11 AM »

Another question that I'd like to ask Mark Linett(if he ever returns to this board) is why, whenever he mixes down any previously unreleased 1960's Beach Boys live recordings, he always mixes them down in mono or near-mono,even though they're 3-track & 4-track recordings, some of which have already been bootlegged in stereo.
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« Reply #388 on: June 22, 2008, 09:29:16 PM »

Quote
"Girl Don't Tell Me" had several live during mixdown overdubs on the original mono mix. A matching stereo mix isn't possible.

Quote
So you don't mind all the missing original guitar parts after the solo?

I don't mind at all.  They're still there in the mono.  I think the producers of these things have been clear from the beginning: the new remixes are just a different way of presenting the canon versions.  To me, it's not about replicating anything, it's about hearing it in a new way.  For instance, on She Knows Me, hearing the vocals separated out really spoke to me.  The clarity of Mike's voice, in particular was very moving.

Quote
so why aren't the vocals spread out to stereo in this new mix?  Was this purely a mixing choice on your part, or were there elements missing that made such a mix impossible?

Same question for the remix of All Summer Long on the recent WOTS comp.

I'm clearly not Mark, but since he's lurking quietly as of late, I'll put forth my two cents.

All Summer Long and When I Grow Up are similar in terms of what's on the tape to mix from.  They both have the basic, an instrumental OD, and then the vocal overdubs.  It's not that much to work with, really.  So the remixer has a choice.  One can split the voices out wide and leave a narrower mix of the track, or swap that arrangement.  I don't think alternating track vox track vox would work, balance-wise.

So in those cases, Mark chose to leave the vocals narrower and present the track wider.  While I would have loved to hear the WIGU vocals wide (I'll leave that for the stereo vocal only version?  Pretty please!?) this way you get to hear some other cool things split, like Al's precise double-tracked fender bass.  You hear how the hi-hat was an OD and not part of Dennis original part on the traps.  You know, it's just a choice that Mark has to make with each new situation.

Quote
why, whenever he mixes down any previously unreleased 1960's Beach Boys live recordings, he always mixes them down in mono or near-mono,even though they're 3-track & 4-track recordings, some of which have already been bootlegged in stereo.

Not sure what boots you're referring to, but according to my notes, the live stuff up through the 4-track era tended to pretty much be one track for all the vocals, one for the instruments, and one for crowd noise.  Later, like at the Michigan State shows, they gave the drums a track.

That's not the kind of set-up that I would spread wide.  Separating the vocals and the instruments would sounds strange, like a bad Beatles stereo mix.  I think you almost have to put the vocals and instruments close in the center.  But unless you have two tracks of audience, you don't want to put that wide either because then it sounds unbalanced.

The track lineup just lends itself to a narrow mix if you're going for a somewhat normal sounding mix.  If you want to isolate things just to hear them, then yeah, you could spread them out, and maybe the boots do that.  But imo a pro mix working with that kind of track layout has to be narrow.

Just my .02.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 09:31:29 PM by aeijtzsche » Logged
PhilCohen
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« Reply #389 on: June 29, 2008, 09:08:14 AM »

Quote
"Girl Don't Tell Me" had several live during mixdown overdubs on the original mono mix. A matching stereo mix isn't possible.

Quote
So you don't mind all the missing original guitar parts after the solo?

I don't mind at all.  They're still there in the mono.  I think the producers of these things have been clear from the beginning: the new remixes are just a different way of presenting the canon versions.  To me, it's not about replicating anything, it's about hearing it in a new way.  For instance, on She Knows Me, hearing the vocals separated out really spoke to me.  The clarity of Mike's voice, in particular was very moving.

Quote
so why aren't the vocals spread out to stereo in this new mix?  Was this purely a mixing choice on your part, or were there elements missing that made such a mix impossible?

Same question for the remix of All Summer Long on the recent WOTS comp.

I'm clearly not Mark, but since he's lurking quietly as of late, I'll put forth my two cents.

All Summer Long and When I Grow Up are similar in terms of what's on the tape to mix from.  They both have the basic, an instrumental OD, and then the vocal overdubs.  It's not that much to work with, really.  So the remixer has a choice.  One can split the voices out wide and leave a narrower mix of the track, or swap that arrangement.  I don't think alternating track vox track vox would work, balance-wise.

So in those cases, Mark chose to leave the vocals narrower and present the track wider.  While I would have loved to hear the WIGU vocals wide (I'll leave that for the stereo vocal only version?  Pretty please!?) this way you get to hear some other cool things split, like Al's precise double-tracked fender bass.  You hear how the hi-hat was an OD and not part of Dennis original part on the traps.  You know, it's just a choice that Mark has to make with each new situation.

Quote
why, whenever he mixes down any previously unreleased 1960's Beach Boys live recordings, he always mixes them down in mono or near-mono,even though they're 3-track & 4-track recordings, some of which have already been bootlegged in stereo.

Not sure what boots you're referring to, but according to my notes, the live stuff up through the 4-track era tended to pretty much be one track for all the vocals, one for the instruments, and one for crowd noise.  Later, like at the Michigan State shows, they gave the drums a track.

That's not the kind of set-up that I would spread wide.  Separating the vocals and the instruments would sounds strange, like a bad Beatles stereo mix.  I think you almost have to put the vocals and instruments close in the center.  But unless you have two tracks of audience, you don't want to put that wide either because then it sounds unbalanced.

The track lineup just lends itself to a narrow mix if you're going for a somewhat normal sounding mix.  If you want to isolate things just to hear them, then yeah, you could spread them out, and maybe the boots do that.  But imo a pro mix working with that kind of track layout has to be narrow.

Just my .02.
I'm refering to the "Sea of Tunes" unofficial releases of the Chicago 1965 & Michigan 1966 concert material. Those mixes sound GREAT!
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« Reply #390 on: June 30, 2008, 12:55:02 PM »

Mark

Why was the LP mix of "California Girls" used on the new box set? It kind of ruins the whole idea of a SINGLES collection, doesn't it? Is everything else on the box the correct single mix?
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« Reply #391 on: July 07, 2008, 03:31:23 PM »

Some great links here -- Thank you for all this great reading!!  :-)

- Chris
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« Reply #392 on: July 22, 2008, 11:34:51 AM »

Hey Mark, I wonder if you can give info on this. I saw you worked on some tracks of the "Good rockin' tonight: The Legacy of Sun Records"-album, including Elton John's version of "Whole lotta shakin' goin' on" produced by Andy Paley. IIRC this was a mono recording, probably trying to get the old feeling. Paley did the same on Jerry Lee Lewis' "Young blood"-album from '95. Do you know if he and Brian wanted the unfinished Beach Boys-album also in mono?
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« Reply #393 on: August 13, 2008, 02:12:56 AM »

Hello Mark,

We are having a discussion about how fragmentary Smile songs such as Worms might be mixed for presentation on a hypothetical "Smile Box-set". My question is: Do you think it would be possible, with your expertise, to mix the existing 66/67 sessions into a seamless facsimile of BWPS? I'm not sure if you've heard any of the boots that do this (there is a Purple Chick one doing the rounds), but they tend to have awkward spots where the original sessions just don't quite fit the new sequence properly - the transition from Song For Children to Child for example, or the transition from Windchimes into Fire. Given that you have created very seamless mixes of fragmentary Smile songs for the GV Box, and as you worked on BWPS, I thought you might be the best person to answer this question!

Many thanks in advance for any opinions you might have on this.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 02:14:21 AM by buddhahat » Logged

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« Reply #394 on: September 25, 2008, 11:19:12 AM »

Not sure if Mark's still alive...but I thought I should also praise when warranted, if I'm going to post criticism ("She Knows Me Too Well" remix).

I think the new remix of "When I Grow Up To Be A Man" came out great, and could easily be substituted for the original mono on future compilations (since that is how the BB camp likes things now anyway, but also because it deserves a wider audience than the 'Singles Collection' box.

I'm surprised it wasn't done for 'Sounds Of Summer'. Maybe there were still missing elements back then? It doesn't sound like anything is missing now, to me anyway.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

If something is "missing", it must be inaudible to anyone but the "hardest of the hardcore".

Anyway, thanks Mark!
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« Reply #395 on: September 25, 2008, 10:13:06 PM »

Hello Mark,

We are having a discussion about how fragmentary Smile songs such as Worms might be mixed for presentation on a hypothetical "Smile Box-set". My question is: Do you think it would be possible, with your expertise, to mix the existing 66/67 sessions into a seamless facsimile of BWPS? I'm not sure if you've heard any of the boots that do this (there is a Purple Chick one doing the rounds), but they tend to have awkward spots where the original sessions just don't quite fit the new sequence properly - the transition from Song For Children to Child for example, or the transition from Windchimes into Fire. Given that you have created very seamless mixes of fragmentary Smile songs for the GV Box, and as you worked on BWPS, I thought you might be the best person to answer this question!

Many thanks in advance for any opinions you might have on this.

Good luck on getting an answer to that one.
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« Reply #396 on: October 30, 2008, 10:34:02 AM »

Not sure if you still visit these shores - and I'm fairly sure you've already answered this (to my satisfaction anyhow), but that argument over whether the original GOK ending using Bruce's bvs being edited into the video version of Brian's 07 version has once again resurfaced.  I'm assuming you're the fountain of all knowledge on the matter, so, once and for all, please could you tell everyone if the video version of Brian's 07 GOK uses the ending from the original featuring Bruce or is it indeed all the 07 song?

Thanks.

Apparently, this is the link:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bNMnTmSbQn4
« Last Edit: October 30, 2008, 10:43:12 AM by salman rushdie » Logged

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« Reply #397 on: November 01, 2008, 04:37:22 PM »

Mark answered this several times already on this thread. 

44       Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New Brian version of God only knows       on: February 11, 2007, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: SloopJohnB on February 11, 2007, 02:05:21 PM
It's DEFINITELY Bruce in the last two seconds of the song. Maybe not in the "final product" that'll be released, but on the soundclip featured in this video, it IS Bruce.

I knew this "discussion" woldn't die just because I posted the facts.

Believe whatever you like, but that is not Bruce nor is the original recording used for any part of the track. To do so would cause all sorts of legal issues and there is no reason to use it anyway. This is meant to be a new recording by Brian of GOK.  If memory serves it's Probyn who sings the answer line at the end of the song.

Mark Linett

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45     Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New Brian version of God only knows    on: February 11, 2007, 12:20:10 PM
To lay these rumours to rest, this is a 100% new recording of GOK performed by Brian and his band. 

Mark Linett
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« Reply #398 on: November 01, 2008, 07:46:31 PM »

He didn't answer anything. We already know Bruce isn't on the actual new track that's on the CD. The question is whether or not the Beach Boys 1966 Pet Sounds recording of God Only Knows was featured in the last few seconds of that video clip. Mark answered another question entirely.
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« Reply #399 on: November 01, 2008, 08:02:58 PM »

And one wonders why AGD quit the board.  Mark answered the question as it was the video that brought up the whole thing anyway.  Dead subject.
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