The Mark Linett Thread

[yrplace]

Mark, have you ever heard any talk or speculation of somebody putting out an outboard box with a nice set of sampled reverbs?  Or is the disparity between the plug-in market and the outboard effect market to great?  I'm going to be getting away from DAW use, and of course I'd rather be pumping my vocals through one of Hollywood's classic chambers, but a "sampled reverb box" would be mighty handy.  And I bet a lot of people would prefer that kind of thing over a Lexicon or something.

I have a seperate computer with a digi 002r running Pro Tools LE that I use for Altiverb and Waves IR reverbs as a standalone box. Works great.

[yrplace]

Mark, the basic track for "Don't Talk" is mono, correct?  So with the addition of the string overdub, and the two lead vocals, is Don't Talk completely contained on one four-track tape?

If so, why do you suppose Brian chose to cut the basic in mono?  Did he realize that since the instrumentation was relatively sparse and controllable in mono, he could save a tape generation by keeping everything on one tape?

The  4 track is a dubdown of the original master which was likely cut on three tracks. The strings and vocals were overdubbed onto this tape.

BTW it is the only PS tracking session that has not survived........ Mark

[Mitchell]

Do we know which take is master? There is a bootlegged copy of Take 1 out there...

(I don't have an easy reference to check the Master Take at the moment, so forgive me if it's in a booklet...)

[yrplace]

The dubdown may be "take 1a". I doubt a copy of the original session exists, but if you find out which boot the one you refer to is on, let me know..thanks

[JRauch]

Mark, what´s up with these volume-changes in "Help Me Rhonda" (Today-version)? Is there a special story or idea behind it, or was it just one of Brian´s experiments?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

That's interesting to know, thanks Mark.  Thank goodness that's the only one missing.  Not that what we have isn't good, in fact, of all the tracks on Pet Sounds, I think Don't Talk was perhaps the best candidate for missing the tracking session and the 3-track.  Since the backing is so sparse.  No horns, just a rhythm section really.

But you did a nice job using what you had into stereo ear candy, Mark.

[c-man]

The dubdown may be "take 1a". I doubt a copy of the original session exists, but if you find out which boot the one you refer to is on, let me know..thanks

Mark, the tracking session tape for "Take 1" is on the "Leggo My Ego" bootleg set.  This is actually one of the earliest session tapes to make the rounds, having circulated as far back as 1982 on the tape collectors' circuit, along with the vocal sessions for "Do You Wanna Dance" and "Please Let Me Wonder".  At the end of the "Don't Talk" tape, Chuck calls for Take 2, and that's where it stops.  It's a little hissy, but still in pretty decent quality on "Leggo My Ego".

C-Man

[c-man]

Mark (or Alan, if you're here and can answer this) -

Would you happen to know at what point Western (and the other indie studios for that matter) began
using assistant engineers (aka tape ops)?  The first evidence I'm aware of that indicates the presence of one would be the now famous B&W photo of Chuck at the console with Winston Wong sitting next to the tape deck ("Sloop John B." vocal session, December '65).  Prior to that (the dawn of the 4-track era at Western), it always sounds like Chuck himself is rolling the tapes on the sessions that we have audio for.  So I' guessing that with 4-tracks, it became too much for one guy to handle both the board and the tapes?  Were the 4-track machines significantly bigger than the 3-tracks and therefore had to be located farther away from the consoles?  I know form the Lewisohn book that Abbey Road in London had tape ops from pretty much the start, and maybe Capitol in Hollywood did as well, but I'm guessing they were a rareity in the independent studios until they became necessary. 

Also, in the Byron Preiss bio, he mentions that Jimmy Lockert and Phil Kaye both did some engineering work at Western on "Pet Sounds"...have you see any evidence of this?  Maybe they assisted Chuck, or did some vocal or mixdown sessions...is Phi Kaye still active in recording?  I remember seeing a photo of him and some other industry guys at a charity golf tournament a few years back (in Mix magazine, I believe).

Thanks,
Craig

[absinthe_boy]

Its interesting to note the preferance many have for BWPS on vinyl vs CD since the same mastering was used for both albeit the vinyl was cut from an analog tape copy of the hi res (88.2 24 bit) eqd master. It would be great if we ever get to issue the record on a DVD-A at 88.2 and see what the listener's think

Clearly the hi res master would contain more information than the CD. As far as CDs go, SMiLE sounds very good...then you listen to the vinyl and there's so much more detail there...

Having said that, the US and European pressings on vinyl are different...unusually the US is miles better - and has different serial numbers etched into the runout. The US gatefold sleeve is also sturdier/thicker and seems better printed.

I know Don Grossinger reckoned that the 1/4 inch analogue dub sounded better than the digital master...which in theory it shouldn't but there you go...nothing ever quite did beat a good 1/4 inch machine - even the better domestic 1/4 inch recorders sound simply amazing.

DVD-A is the only consumer digital format I've heard that actually sounds pleasing to my ears. I have a small selection of DVD-A discs and just picked up Pet Sounds today...will be interesting to compare it to the Simply Vinyl release which I also own...but which sounds 'muddy' to me.

[yrplace]

Its interesting to note the preferance many have for BWPS on vinyl vs CD since the same mastering was used for both albeit the vinyl was cut from an analog tape copy of the hi res (88.2 24 bit) eqd master. It would be great if we ever get to issue the record on a DVD-A at 88.2 and see what the listener's think

Clearly the hi res master would contain more information than the CD. As far as CDs go, SMiLE sounds very good...then you listen to the vinyl and there's so much more detail there...

Having said that, the US and European pressings on vinyl are different...unusually the US is miles better - and has different serial numbers etched into the runout. The US gatefold sleeve is also sturdier/thicker and seems better printed.

I know Don Grossinger reckoned that the 1/4 inch analogue dub sounded better than the digital master...which in theory it shouldn't but there you go...nothing ever quite did beat a good 1/4 inch machine - even the better domestic 1/4 inch recorders sound simply amazing.

DVD-A is the only consumer digital format I've heard that actually sounds pleasing to my ears. I have a small selection of DVD-A discs and just picked up Pet Sounds today...will be interesting to compare it to the Simply Vinyl release which I also own...but which sounds 'muddy' to me.

The two Smile vinyl issues are an interesting comparison. Identical lacquers were used cut by Don at the same time from the same tape. The only diff. is in the processing at the two plants (in the US we used RTI) and the pressing. Obviously these things make a big diff.

BTW we are hoping to have both a new vinyl and mono release of PS out before long as we recently found a much better master than the one we've been forced to use for the past 15 years or so. No definate schedule for the re-release yet, but the improvement is dramatic..

hope you like the PS DVD-A. You might want to pick up the  "Live at The Roxy" DVD-A as well. You can get it online from Rhino and I think there's a link to it on Brian's website.

Mark

[SMiLEY]

Newly-found Pet Sounds mono masters? 

Details, please?

[JRauch]

And does that lead to a new, improved stereo-mix? I mean, the current stereo mix is fantastic. But, you know, better is always better.

[Roger Ryan]

And does that lead to a new, improved stereo-mix? I mean, the current stereo mix is fantastic. But, you know, better is always better.

A newly discovered mono master (persumably an earlier generation) would have nothing to do with the stereo remix. For the stereo and surround mixes, Mark went back to the session and multitrack tapes that would have preceded any mono master. Those tapes (and the mixes they resulted in) won't sound any better than what's available on the DVD-A version of "Pet Sounds". This is great news, however, for fans of Brian's original mono mix completed in 1966!

[JRauch]

Thanks ... 

[Bicyclerider]

Mark, is this the missing L.A. tape?  Or an even earlier generation tape?  Can you comment on where it was found - in the Beach Boys archive, or at Capitol, or at what used to be Reprise?

[yrplace]

Mark, is this the missing L.A. tape?  Or an even earlier generation tape?  Can you comment on where it was found - in the Beach Boys archive, or at Capitol, or at what used to be Reprise?

I thought my post was clear. This is a flat digital copy made in 1987 of the original mono master analog tape which later vanished from the EMI tape vault. I don't know what Reprise used for certain but it appears they used EQd analog tape copies. There is no "LA" tape pe se. The original lp was cut using the original mono master (eqd and limited of course). What we are now going to use is a flat digital copy of that tape which sounds much better than the analog copy made in 66. This digital tape will be played back analog and remastered.

Hope that explains it.

[Bicyclerider]

Thanks Mark.  I look forward to hearing this hopefully on a DVD-A or SACD release!

[wind chime]

Hi Mark:

Funny...I have the 1990 CD of PS and it has a copyright date of 1987 on the CD...so is the 1990 CD a better mono master than the 1996 box set, 1999 mono/stereo CD and the 2001 mono/stereo CD? I always find the 1999 CD has a bit too much  tape hiss on the mono tracks but the 1990 CD sounds cleaner so I prefer the 90 CD version...

Now I also have a scratchy 1966 pressing of PS that I was thinking of converting via turntable to .wav then .mp3 is it worth it??? so many Pet Sounds so little time (:...also just wondering, did the original single mixes differ from the lps I guess GOK, WIBN, SLOOP would be the tracks in question...

[yrplace]

Hi Mark:

Funny...I have the 1990 CD of PS and it has a copyright date of 1987 on the CD...so is the 1990 CD a better mono master than the 1996 box set, 1999 mono/stereo CD and the 2001 mono/stereo CD? I always find the 1999 CD has a bit too much  tape hiss on the mono tracks but the 1990 CD sounds cleaner so I prefer the 90 CD version...

Now I also have a scratchy 1966 pressing of PS that I was thinking of converting via turntable to .wav then .mp3 is it worth it??? so many Pet Sounds so little time (:...also just wondering, did the original single mixes differ from the lps I guess GOK, WIBN, SLOOP would be the tracks in question...

The mixes are all the same on the mono CDs and lps. The 1990 issued CD was created in 1987. It used the original mono master but was denoised and now sounds preatty awful.

[yrplace]

I should add that the 1999 mono/ stereo CD was incorrectly remastered by EMi w/out the group's permission or approval and was soon withdrawn and redone for the 2001 version which is the one currently available.

[Andreas]

Mark,

does that digital copy of the master tape from 1987 contain the true mono mix of Wouldn't It Be Nice or the duophonic version?

I am asking because Steve Hoffman has said that when he had the master tape in 1993 in his hands, Wouldn't It Be Nice was duophonic, and that is why he had to use a copy tape (the "N.Y.tape") for that song. (The story is that when the master tape was at Warner Brothers in the 1970s, someone cut the mono master mix of that song out and placed a duophonic copy in instead.)

Is the following correct: So far, the only digital Pet Sounds releases that used the mono master tape (except the one song) were the 1990 Capitol CD and the DCC Gold CD?

What was the very first Japanese Pet Sounds CD from 1987 (not! the Pastmasters CD) mastered from? The same 1987 digital copy?

[wind chime]

Mark,

does that digital copy of the master tape from 1987 contain the true mono mix of Wouldn't It Be Nice or the duophonic version?

It's the mono version of WIBN on the 1990 CD...I know Mark said it sounds pretty awful but gosh I like it better than the mono 1999 CD...

[yrplace]

Mark,

does that digital copy of the master tape from 1987 contain the true mono mix of Wouldn't It Be Nice or the duophonic version?

I am asking because Steve Hoffman has said that when he had the master tape in 1993 in his hands, Wouldn't It Be Nice was duophonic, and that is why he had to use a copy tape (the "N.Y.tape") for that song. (The story is that when the master tape was at Warner Brothers in the 1970s, someone cut the mono master mix of that song out and placed a duophonic copy in instead.)

Is the following correct: So far, the only digital Pet Sounds releases that used the mono master tape (except the one song) were the 1990 Capitol CD and the DCC Gold CD?

What was the very first Japanese Pet Sounds CD from 1987 (not! the Pastmasters CD) mastered from? The same 1987 digital copy?

I don't believe Hoffman had the original master in 93 for the DCC release . My recollection is he had to use the NY copy and since we had already discovered the master had dissapeared from Capitol, I would likely recall (as would EMI) if he was the last one to use the original master. In addition I believe we did the GV box before the DCC of PS and I know the analog master had gone missing by then.

The digital copy has the duophonic WIBN which is what was on the mono master reel. The orig mono master of the song was pulled to a singles reel at some point long long ago and lost. But we did make a copy of the next best master which was from the NY analog copy.

I doubt any use has been made of this digital copy since 1987 as it was barely identifiable and without a proper song list on the box. I knew what it was because I supervised the xfr in 1987.

The Japanese Pastmaster CD is from the same denoised master as the US version in 1990. EMI in Japan just jumped the gun and released the CD without the band's approval.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Mark,

Still Crusin’: Any chance of a resurrection of this album? 20th Anniversary Edition with bells and whistles? Filled out with valid odds and ends, like “Rock and Roll to the Rescue”, “Lady Liberty”, “Spirit of Rock and Roll”, etc? Perhaps coupled with Summer in Paradise?

There’s a massive demand for these albums! Listen to the screams of the fans!

(crickets chirping)

No, seriously. The addition of this 2-fer would give us the complete body of work readily available. Tell the suits that they need to release it!

Was there any consideration of this album when the Brother 2-fers were prepared?

[TV Forces]

I agree with Bubba.  I've never heard these those two albums,
or Stars & Stripes.  But I heard it blew.