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Author Topic: Did Landy ever realize he did anything wrong?  (Read 52716 times)
Mike's Beard
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« Reply #150 on: March 12, 2015, 04:16:01 PM »

Getting him to write and play music again is one thing. But being everyone's breadwinner is exactly what lead to his breakdown in the first place.
Exactly my point. Plus this is how Landy used Brian to get involved in his business affairs. Landy was smart, he knew the BBs fired him the first time because of his escalating fees so second time round he duped Brian into letting him collabarate with him, all in the name of 'therapy'. Suddenly, Landy was recieving half the royalties of every song Brian put out and was getting to live his rock star dreams throught his client.
Landy knew what he was doing every step of the way, he knew it was legally and morally wrong but he did it anyway for the money and the fame. And conveniently, anyone who dared question Landy's ethics found themselves cut off to Brian.
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« Reply #151 on: March 12, 2015, 04:26:01 PM »

Exactly my point. Plus this is how Landy used Brian to get involved in his business affairs. Landy was smart, he knew the BBs fired him the first time because of his escalating fees so second time round he duped Brian into letting him collabarate with him, all in the name of 'therapy'.

Of course he did. Landy knew what he was going to do from the beginning in '83. That's why he got buy-offs from the desperate Carl Wilson, Jerry Schilling, John Branca, and Tom Hulett to do whatever the hell he wanted, with no intervention from others as part of the agreement. Took many years until they finally did intervene.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 09:27:02 AM by Mikie » Logged

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #152 on: March 12, 2015, 04:34:53 PM »


As I recall, Melinda on the now-deleted-from-Youtube Larry King video said something to the effect of "they had the best doctors at UCLA just minutes away", criticizing the family and Marilyn in particular... a criticism which does sound logical and makes sense to me, in 30 years hindsight... and I'm not sure why the UCLA thing wasn't a valid option at the time.

That said, not to give the family a free pass for handing Brian off to Landy in 1982/1983, but it would seem that they probably had well-intended reasons that made sense to them at the time, wouldn't you think?

Like I said before, Brian should have been commited for his own good by the early 80s. I'm guessing no one wanted to make that hard decision for him while any other option was being presented. Plus as cynical as it sounds, Landy was very good at dangling the carrot that he could get Brian writing and recording for the group again.
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« Reply #153 on: March 12, 2015, 04:47:58 PM »

She'd obviously rather talk about her acting career anyway.

Again...then why in the world would she include her Brian Wilson association in her publicity bio?

You ever name-dropped on a resume or interview or mentioned to someone that you met a Rock star by name, John? If you wrote lyrics to a bunch of songs that were released on a couple of albums and a single by a Rock star, would you put it in your bio or resume some place? Like I said above, maybe she doesn't want to re-live it by people asking her about it or she doesn't want to be associated by the controversial subject surrounding her husband. Notice her last name is still "Morgan".

By the way, John, do you know about a story about Brian and Gary Usher's wife?  How about Brian and a pager and a toilet?

Name dropped that I met a rock star? No. Unless it was here, of course, where those experiences are readily shared.

If I wrote lyrics to songs, would I put it in my bio? Absolutely....UNLESS....my contributions were part of a larger scheme designed to isolate/exploit/defraud a very vulnerable rock star unable to defend himself. And, that scheme was later uncovered, and I was caught alongside my companion red-handed and exposed to the world as a blood-sucking fraud. At that point, I would begin a slow and painful process of divorcing myself from that part of my past, express contrition, apologize for my wrongdoing, and maintain a very low profile about it. What I would NOT do is publicize it on a website promoting my new career, having moved on from that unfortunate part of my life.

That brings me back full circle to my original point regarding the title of this thread. No, neither of these two, Eugene or Alexandra, ever thought they did  anything wrong.  Quite the contrary, she is willing to publicize her involvement with Brian Wilson in her own passive-aggressive way. "I don't want to talk about it, but dig the work I did with Brian Wilson back in the 80s!"

As for Gary Usher, not sure I understand the question. But, I did read in the Wilson Project about how comfortable Brian felt in the Usher home around Gary's wife and children. And, I think the submerged pager story was told in that book.

It was good that the Usher family helped Brian Wilson write music in 1986-1987 without trying to sneak an inheritance out of the deal.
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« Reply #154 on: March 12, 2015, 05:00:15 PM »


All Things Must Pass. Better than any Beatles album by a considerable mile.



Come on now. 

I've never heard it yet but I don't see why this opinion is so unbelievable. George wrote the best songs on all the later albums. And, I guess I'm alone in this opinion, but aside from Rubber Soul, Revolver and Abbey Road I really don't think the Beatles albums are *that* great. I consider Pepper fluff, White Album a mess, Let It Be just alright... I mean, is it really that hard to conceive of someone making a better album? Let alone the guy that wrote the best songs on these albums?

This probably isn't the right thread to go into this, but from my perspective, the cult of Beatle-mania is just really off-putting. It's so all-encompassing that it's almost disturbing. If I said any other bands discography was better than literally ALL OTHER BANDS COMBINED I'd be rightly called a fanatic and my wild assertion dismissed as ignorance or hyperbole. But people literally say that about the Beatles and it's treated as a valid opinion by some, a resolute statement of fact by others. It's...crazy.

Not here, but somewhere else on this board, I really think this topic warrants discussion and the myth of the Beatles as the one and only progressive band whom all other bands were either outright copying or vastly inferior to has to be dissected.
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« Reply #155 on: March 12, 2015, 05:03:24 PM »

Well in the BS Landy/Brian biography Landy made sure to put something in there about how he was going to SAVE Denny next and obviously ran out of time.

My two cents. I give Landy nearly NO credit in any form. A thousand reputable doctors could have/should have treated Brian. People speculate on what if's here all the time. What if a true doctor, instead of that hack that drugged the hell out of Brian, had helped him.

Not just that. The book blames Carl for supposedly wanting to wait until after Christmas to begin Dennis' treatment. He is indirectly blamed for Dennis' death on his older brother's autobio-- it must have been heartbreaking for Carl.
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« Reply #156 on: March 12, 2015, 06:51:52 PM »

As for Gary Usher, not sure I understand the question. But, I did read in the Wilson Project about how comfortable Brian felt in the Usher home around Gary's wife and children. And, I think the submerged pager story was told in that book.

I'll answer my own question. Here's the story/joke you told awhile back. I think it's from the book:


Usher's wife: "Hey Brian, what are you doing?"

BW: "Oh, I'm just sitting here in the chair with a golf club in my hand."

(then a few minutes of silence goes by)

BW: "Now there is no golf club in my hand."

(Wife looks over, noticing he had put golf club down. She goes back to strumming guitar, then looks over and notices he has picked the golf club back up).

Usher's wife: "And now you have the golf club back in your hand."

(Brian looks at her and cracks up laughing.)
 
 


« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 06:52:58 PM by Mikie » Logged

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #157 on: March 12, 2015, 07:00:10 PM »

As for Gary Usher, not sure I understand the question. But, I did read in the Wilson Project about how comfortable Brian felt in the Usher home around Gary's wife and children. And, I think the submerged pager story was told in that book.

I'll answer my own question. Here's the story/joke you told awhile back. I think it's from the book:


Usher's wife: "Hey Brian, what are you doing?"

BW: "Oh, I'm just sitting here in the chair with a golf club in my hand."

(then a few minutes of silence goes by)

BW: "Now there is no golf club in my hand."

(Wife looks over, noticing he had put golf club down. She goes back to strumming guitar, then looks over and notices he has picked the golf club back up).

Usher's wife: "And now you have the golf club back in your hand."

(Brian looks at her and cracks up laughing.)



Ah, yes. I went back and found it. It's in the book.  So is the pager story.  It's kind of pricy, and it can be found on ebay sometimes, but if you ever get a chance, it's worth the read. It will put out of your mind any possible sympathy you would ever dream of having toward Landy and Company. In fact, it's such an outrageous diary of events, it will enrage you that this could happen to anyone.
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« Reply #158 on: March 12, 2015, 07:02:25 PM »

Quite the contrary, she is willing to publicize her involvement with Brian Wilson in her own passive-aggressive way.

I just don't see it that way. A quick one-liner blurb and that's it. No details and I understand why she wouldn't want to discuss it.

Maybe she should come on this board for a Q&A like Loren Daro and be target practice for your questions.
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #159 on: March 12, 2015, 07:18:31 PM »

Ah, yes. I went back and found it. It's in the book.  So is the pager story.  It's kind of pricy, and it can be found on ebay sometimes, but if you ever get a chance, it's worth the read. It will put out of your mind any possible sympathy you would ever dream of having toward Landy and Company. In fact, it's such an outrageous diary of events, it will enrage you that this could happen to anyone.

John, I bought the original book(s) hot off the presses in 1992. Like I said earlier, I talked to the author of the book over a pitcher of Foster's at a Beach Boys convention in the Summer of '92. That roundtable discussion was a real eye-opener. Back then, there were two volumes, one with a gray cover and one with a pink cover. I don't have the updated 2013 edition though.
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #160 on: March 12, 2015, 08:53:37 PM »


All Things Must Pass. Better than any Beatles album by a considerable mile.



Come on now. 

I've never heard it yet

Come back and tell us if the album's better than anythig the Beatles ever released after you've... you know... actually listened to it.
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« Reply #161 on: March 12, 2015, 09:12:28 PM »

She'd obviously rather talk about her acting career anyway.

Again...then why in the world would she include her Brian Wilson association in her publicity bio?

You ever name-dropped on a resume or interview or mentioned to someone that you met a Rock star by name, John? If you wrote lyrics to a bunch of songs that were released on a couple of albums and a single by a Rock star, would you put it in your bio or resume some place? Like I said above, maybe she doesn't want to re-live it by people asking her about it or she doesn't want to be associated by the controversial subject surrounding her husband. Notice her last name is still "Morgan".

By the way, John, do you know about a story about Brian and Gary Usher's wife?  How about Brian and a pager and a toilet?

Mikie...if you own the books, what was your purpose in asking me the story about Gary Usher's wife? Am I missing something?
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« Reply #162 on: March 12, 2015, 09:28:41 PM »


All Things Must Pass. Better than any Beatles album by a considerable mile.



Come on now.  

I've never heard it yet

Come back and tell us if the album's better than anythig the Beatles ever released after you've... you know... actually listened to it.

Way to completely sidestep my entire point. I wasn't saying I thought it was better. I've just always noticed a really bizarre, insanely hyperbolic/disturbingly unquestioned cult of personality around the Beatles and I'm sick of it. It's bad enough the mainstream media simplifies the fascinating '60s music scene down to "Beatles, Beatles, Beatles...uh...27 club too" and casual music fans lap it up. But for the more hardcore music buffs, the kind who'd post on a forum like this, I'd expect more diversity in taste and nuance in their understanding of the California & Swinging London scenes. Surely if you dig deep enough, you can find other, criminally underappreciated albums and artists at least on par with the Fab Four? But for so many here to make such ridiculous assertions as I've seen it's kinda sad.

I mean, like whatever you wanna like. If you've honestly given the lesser known stuff like USA, Zappa, Love, King Crimson, Red Krayola, etc a chance and prefer Sgt Pepper that's fine. But don't feed me this crap that they alone created the hippie scene, are as influential as Shakespeare, are better than every other band combined, etc. I wouldn't mind so much if people stated these borderline insane opinions as fact if others at least called them out on it. But the myth of the greatest, unquestionably genius band ever is so pervasive that no one dares challenge it. Its just taken as a fact that the Beatles alone paved the way and everyone else was riding their coattails.

What you claimed wasn't nearly so ridiculous, but it's your dismissive attitude that I take offense to. It seems ATMP was a major critical and commercial success upon its release and in hindsight. It was made by the guy who wrote the best material on the later Beatles albums. Does the opinion "ATMP is better than any Beatles album" really warrant such a blunt, unsubstantiated, "Nope, you're wrong" kind of response? Would you have felt as comfortable shutting that opinion down, without backing your own up, had Mike's Beard said "ATMP is much better than any Jefferson Airplane/HP Lovecraft/Doors album? I'm not sure, but my guess is probably not.

Edit: After this post I'm not going to address the topic anymore here, not to get the last word in but because I realize I'm derailing this thread which is about a very serious topic and I feel this is an inappropriate place to do so. I've just been noticing lately how firmly entrenched Beatlemania is and I think it's high past time that a more balanced, realistic view of the counterculture music take place. Break free of the echo chamber, of the need for there to be a "best" listen to some of their lesser known contemporaries with an open mind, and consider the fact that just because there are "scholarly articles" written about them that doesn't necessarily mean the Beatles made the most progressive or "best" music in their day. Beach Boys fans of all people should know that the best music isn't always what hits #1 on the charts or is immediately recognized by the critics. Or do you think Surfin USA is objectively better than Pet Sounds because "it sold xyz records!" and "all the screaming girls!" ?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 10:10:48 PM by Mujan, B@st@rd Son of a Blue Wizard » Logged

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Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #163 on: March 12, 2015, 09:35:34 PM »

She'd obviously rather talk about her acting career anyway.

Again...then why in the world would she include her Brian Wilson association in her publicity bio?

You ever name-dropped on a resume or interview or mentioned to someone that you met a Rock star by name, John? If you wrote lyrics to a bunch of songs that were released on a couple of albums and a single by a Rock star, would you put it in your bio or resume some place? Like I said above, maybe she doesn't want to re-live it by people asking her about it or she doesn't want to be associated by the controversial subject surrounding her husband. Notice her last name is still "Morgan".

By the way, John, do you know about a story about Brian and Gary Usher's wife?  How about Brian and a pager and a toilet?

Mikie...if you own the books, what was your purpose in asking me the story about Gary Usher's wife? Am I missing something?

Saw you posted it on a Landy-related thread in 2011 and just wanted to see if you knew the source.

Do you have the original issue of Wilson Project or the 2013 edition? I'd like to know if I'm missing much by not having the newer edition.

I still have to pick up INCEPTION AND CONCEPTION - THE BEACH BOYS 1961-1963 by Steve McParland.

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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #164 on: March 12, 2015, 10:11:46 PM »

Well in the BS Landy/Brian biography Landy made sure to put something in there about how he was going to SAVE Denny next and obviously ran out of time.

My two cents. I give Landy nearly NO credit in any form. A thousand reputable doctors could have/should have treated Brian. People speculate on what if's here all the time. What if a true doctor, instead of that hack that drugged the hell out of Brian, had helped him.

Not just that. The book blames Carl for supposedly wanting to wait until after Christmas to begin Dennis' treatment. He is indirectly blamed for Dennis' death on his older brother's autobio-- it must have been heartbreaking for Carl.
Right. In the book, everything is Carl's fault. Carl, the one Wilson brother who sobered up on his own, is the demon, the one coming between Brian and the Doctor/angel/Godsend who saved his life. In that pathetic interview with Diane Sawyer, Landy said "the family beats him (Brian) up". Yeah, I can just see Carl, Audree, Carnie and Wendy physically or verbally beating the piss out of poor Brian...NOT! Landy was an evil control freak who just couldn't stand the thought of anyone gaining access to his Frankenstein and possibly having any influence on him.
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« Reply #165 on: March 12, 2015, 11:03:59 PM »

A few points to make:

In the Seventies, Brian was very depressed, and did not find an adequate psychiatrist after the accidental death of the psychiatrist that was someone Brian trusted.

The milieu therapy approach is heavily Skinnerian, and is based on replacing aberrant behaviors with healthy behaviors. The method requires immersion in a new milieu, with control of the person in their environment essential.

Chemically and behaviorally dependent people are that way because the issues underlying their addictive behavior have been numbed by whatever addictive substance or activity is used to avoid the emotional pain that would otherwise be experienced (e.g. physical, emotional, or sexual abuse)

The chemically or behaviorally dependent person is by nature a chameleon. He or she can change to counteract whatever challenges may present themselves that are designed to stop the dependency. Brian is an incredible survivor.

In essence, a truly talented chemically or behaviorally dependent individual can allow the "treatment strategies" to blow over him like reeds do in a hurricane. When the hurricane is over, the dependent behavior resumes as before the "treatment."

In truth, there is nothing Carl could have done that he did not try to do in Brian's situation. His efforts truly were the leverage that allowed Brian and Landy to be separated.

Dennis's battle with chemical dependence was sadly lost. He was scheduled to go to treatment a few times, and did not enter at the last minute. Chemical dependence is a genetically transmitted trait, and is usually passed from parent to child. As Timothy White so competently demonstrated, chemical and behavioral dependence in the Wilson family went back at least two generations, and possibly more.

The reason Brian did not produce many more Beach Boys albums after 1967, in my opinion, is that besides stereo being something he could not realize creatively due to hearing loss, he was also behaviorally dependent on his studio work in the mid Sixties. If you read between the lines, his dependence upon music to escape the emotional pain of his childhood began while he still lived at home in high school. When mood altering chemicals were introduced in the mid Sixties, the predictable phenomenon of cross-addiction happened, and he jumped from behavioral dependence upon music to light and then heavier mood altering chemicals, and overeating.

I am so grateful that Brian found the people he did to support his wellness, through encouraging and loving support, unconditional love, and allowing him the choices he needed to make. That, combined with the medicational regimen he is on which helped him rebalance his brain neurochemistry is why we have had so much wonderful music and live performances since Landy and Brian were legally separated.
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« Reply #166 on: March 13, 2015, 12:17:26 AM »

If Alexandra should be reading this, sorry for asking about Brian Wilson. John Malone's posts made me realize that she probably doesn't need to be bothered w/ this stuff.

Take care, & RIP to Gene Landy (March 22nd, 9 yrs since he died)
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« Reply #167 on: March 13, 2015, 07:00:34 AM »

Well in the BS Landy/Brian biography Landy made sure to put something in there about how he was going to SAVE Denny next and obviously ran out of time.

My two cents. I give Landy nearly NO credit in any form. A thousand reputable doctors could have/should have treated Brian. People speculate on what if's here all the time. What if a true doctor, instead of that hack that drugged the hell out of Brian, had helped him.

Not just that. The book blames Carl for supposedly wanting to wait until after Christmas to begin Dennis' treatment. He is indirectly blamed for Dennis' death on his older brother's autobio-- it must have been heartbreaking for Carl.

You are right. It's all coming back to me now..augh..

You don't even need to read the book,  just look at the pictures. I remember there was a set of shots with Brian sitting there looking totally withdrawn, and Landy is in his face talking to him, then hugging him...and the caption said something like "Intense Therapy" ...intense therapy my ass.

I'm really glad that this movie is coming out and tells the story of the way this gold digger further damaged an already damaged person.
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« Reply #168 on: March 13, 2015, 08:28:30 AM »

If Alexandra should be reading this, sorry for asking about Brian Wilson. John Malone's posts made me realize that she probably doesn't need to be bothered w/ this stuff.

Take care, & RIP to Gene Landy (March 22nd, 9 yrs since he died)

I am sorry if you feel I am being too hard on poor Alexandra. She must have been as floored as everyone else to find out her boyfriend was doing such evil things to Brian Wilson. Heck, had she known, she probably would have joined in the lawsuit alongside Carl, Audree, Carnie, and Wendy to have Gene removed from Brian's life.
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« Reply #169 on: March 13, 2015, 08:56:26 AM »


I don't think that he was the only person on the planet who could treat Brian... however, in late '82, at a time of extreme desperation and with the clock ticking fast with Brian's addictions at their worst, I'm not sure the family knew or had access/awareness of anyone else who could have sobered Brian up. I think it was a matter of ignorance of being aware of anyone better, or anyone who would work at all, for that matter (clearly they didn't like Landy in many ways, and it had to be a bite-the-tongue situation made out of desperation).

As I recall, Melinda on the now-deleted-from-Youtube Larry King video said something to the effect of "they had the best doctors at UCLA just minutes away", criticizing the family and Marilyn in particular... a criticism which does sound logical and makes sense to me, in 30 years hindsight... and I'm not sure why the UCLA thing wasn't a valid option at the time.

That said, not to give the family a free pass for handing Brian off to Landy in 1982/1983, but it would seem that they probably had well-intended reasons that made sense to them at the time, wouldn't you think?

It must be added that Brian immediately responded by defending Marilyn:

`My wife didn't know he was a crazy man.`
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« Reply #170 on: March 13, 2015, 08:57:55 AM »

A few points to make:

In the Seventies, Brian was very depressed, and did not find an adequate psychiatrist after the accidental death of the psychiatrist that was someone Brian trusted.

The milieu therapy approach is heavily Skinnerian, and is based on replacing aberrant behaviors with healthy behaviors. The method requires immersion in a new milieu, with control of the person in their environment essential.

Chemically and behaviorally dependent people are that way because the issues underlying their addictive behavior have been numbed by whatever addictive substance or activity is used to avoid the emotional pain that would otherwise be experienced (e.g. physical, emotional, or sexual abuse)

The chemically or behaviorally dependent person is by nature a chameleon. He or she can change to counteract whatever challenges may present themselves that are designed to stop the dependency. Brian is an incredible survivor.

In essence, a truly talented chemically or behaviorally dependent individual can allow the "treatment strategies" to blow over him like reeds do in a hurricane. When the hurricane is over, the dependent behavior resumes as before the "treatment."

In truth, there is nothing Carl could have done that he did not try to do in Brian's situation. His efforts truly were the leverage that allowed Brian and Landy to be separated.

Dennis's battle with chemical dependence was sadly lost. He was scheduled to go to treatment a few times, and did not enter at the last minute. Chemical dependence is a genetically transmitted trait, and is usually passed from parent to child. As Timothy White so competently demonstrated, chemical and behavioral dependence in the Wilson family went back at least two generations, and possibly more.

The reason Brian did not produce many more Beach Boys albums after 1967, in my opinion, is that besides stereo being something he could not realize creatively due to hearing loss, he was also behaviorally dependent on his studio work in the mid Sixties. If you read between the lines, his dependence upon music to escape the emotional pain of his childhood began while he still lived at home in high school. When mood altering chemicals were introduced in the mid Sixties, the predictable phenomenon of cross-addiction happened, and he jumped from behavioral dependence upon music to light and then heavier mood altering chemicals, and overeating.

I am so grateful that Brian found the people he did to support his wellness, through encouraging and loving support, unconditional love, and allowing him the choices he needed to make. That, combined with the medicational regimen he is on which helped him rebalance his brain neurochemistry is why we have had so much wonderful music and live performances since Landy and Brian were legally separated.
Peter - thanks is for explaining the Skinner method. The state of addiction treatment is pretty poor.  It is heavily rationed, full of highly unqualified people and the whole "waiting for a bed" is cruel and abusive in my view.  Carl could not have done much for Dennis other than "tie him up until he dried out." And it is so unkind to commit a family member during the holidays, especially if they feel badly about themselves, although on balance, the holidays are the time when people often start using again after a period of relative sobriety.  Unless they check themselves in voluntarily, which doesn't happen so often.

Shame on Landy for joining in on making judgment calls as to the reason Dennis died. It shows his unfitness.  At least neuroscience is now beginning to take hold with "measurable and quantifying" scanners which remove the subjective judgment calling that has been the hallmark of this whole dynamic.  It is now possible to see a damaged region of the damaged prefrontal cortex which like an x-Ray of a broken bone, is free of value judgment and shaming.

Nora Volkow is doing great work in this area, and it removes the whole "shaming" of people who suffer from addiction and are unfortunately cut of from their families, as though the "negative reinforcement" worked.  More than one of my former students has died in "the gutter" because of backward addiction attitudes.  Tough love doesn't always work so well. Only unconditional love helps, while neither being called an enabler, nor a doormat.  

A lot of this is just pure luck trying to get to someone before they overdose.  Sometimes you just can't get there fast enough and that is why many police and fire departments now carry narcan which, in the case of heroin will reverse the overdosing pretty quickly.  It probably would not have helped Dennis since he was submerged.  That was not available thirty years ago.  Here's hoping that better things will happen for those who suffer.  
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Wild-Honey
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« Reply #171 on: March 13, 2015, 09:21:06 AM »


All Things Must Pass. Better than any Beatles album by a considerable mile.



Come on now.  

I've never heard it yet

Come back and tell us if the album's better than anythig the Beatles ever released after you've... you know... actually listened to it.

Way to completely sidestep my entire point. I wasn't saying I thought it was better. I've just always noticed a really bizarre, insanely hyperbolic/disturbingly unquestioned cult of personality around the Beatles and I'm sick of it. It's bad enough the mainstream media simplifies the fascinating '60s music scene down to "Beatles, Beatles, Beatles...uh...27 club too" and casual music fans lap it up. But for the more hardcore music buffs, the kind who'd post on a forum like this, I'd expect more diversity in taste and nuance in their understanding of the California & Swinging London scenes. Surely if you dig deep enough, you can find other, criminally underappreciated albums and artists at least on par with the Fab Four? But for so many here to make such ridiculous assertions as I've seen it's kinda sad.

I mean, like whatever you wanna like. If you've honestly given the lesser known stuff like USA, Zappa, Love, King Crimson, Red Krayola, etc a chance and prefer Sgt Pepper that's fine. But don't feed me this crap that they alone created the hippie scene, are as influential as Shakespeare, are better than every other band combined, etc. I wouldn't mind so much if people stated these borderline insane opinions as fact if others at least called them out on it. But the myth of the greatest, unquestionably genius band ever is so pervasive that no one dares challenge it. Its just taken as a fact that the Beatles alone paved the way and everyone else was riding their coattails.

What you claimed wasn't nearly so ridiculous, but it's your dismissive attitude that I take offense to. It seems ATMP was a major critical and commercial success upon its release and in hindsight. It was made by the guy who wrote the best material on the later Beatles albums. Does the opinion "ATMP is better than any Beatles album" really warrant such a blunt, unsubstantiated, "Nope, you're wrong" kind of response? Would you have felt as comfortable shutting that opinion down, without backing your own up, had Mike's Beard said "ATMP is much better than any Jefferson Airplane/HP Lovecraft/Doors album? I'm not sure, but my guess is probably not.

Edit: After this post I'm not going to address the topic anymore here, not to get the last word in but because I realize I'm derailing this thread which is about a very serious topic and I feel this is an inappropriate place to do so. I've just been noticing lately how firmly entrenched Beatlemania is and I think it's high past time that a more balanced, realistic view of the counterculture music take place. Break free of the echo chamber, of the need for there to be a "best" listen to some of their lesser known contemporaries with an open mind, and consider the fact that just because there are "scholarly articles" written about them that doesn't necessarily mean the Beatles made the most progressive or "best" music in their day. Beach Boys fans of all people should know that the best music isn't always what hits #1 on the charts or is immediately recognized by the critics. Or do you think Surfin USA is objectively better than Pet Sounds because "it sold xyz records!" and "all the screaming girls!" ?

Like you said,  start a new thread about it.
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« Reply #172 on: March 13, 2015, 10:22:35 AM »

I am sorry if you feel I am being too hard on poor Alexandra. She must have been as floored as everyone else to find out her boyfriend was doing such evil things to Brian Wilson. Heck, had she known, she probably would have joined in the lawsuit alongside Carl, Audree, Carnie, and Wendy to have Gene removed from Brian's life.

Oh no. Your opinion is your opinion, just as mine is mine. I wasn't insinuating that I thought you were being negative. Now, I'm gonna wash my hands of all this & change my username. Have a good weekend  Azn
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 10:51:18 AM by 'Ghost' of Dr. Landy » Logged

"It looks like I'm going to have to go bananas all by myself." -B.W.

"Dr. Landy and Brian Wilson are right out of a storybook." -Brian Wilson

"So maybe Beach Boys fans are stupid and we can dismiss the whole thing. But maybe that's a pretty snotty attitude to take; maybe something is happening here that we just ought to know about" -Paul Williams

"Brian is an enigma, a leprechaun," said rhythm guitarist Al Jardine.

"There ain't a rocketship powerfull enough to be able to blast Jeff's fat ass into space."-Mike's Beard
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« Reply #173 on: March 13, 2015, 10:27:36 AM »

I am sorry if you feel I am being too hard on poor Alexandra. She must have been as floored as everyone else to find out her boyfriend was doing such evil things to Brian Wilson. Heck, had she known, she probably would have joined in the lawsuit alongside Carl, Audree, Carnie, and Wendy to have Gene removed from Brian's life.

The notion that, for nine years, Landy's girlfriend had no idea what he was doing to Brian is simply laughable. She was around, she saw what was happening. She knew. She was complicit.
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« Reply #174 on: March 13, 2015, 10:46:31 AM »

I am sorry if you feel I am being too hard on poor Alexandra. She must have been as floored as everyone else to find out her boyfriend was doing such evil things to Brian Wilson. Heck, had she known, she probably would have joined in the lawsuit alongside Carl, Audree, Carnie, and Wendy to have Gene removed from Brian's life.
The notion that, for nine years, Landy's girlfriend had no idea what he was doing to Brian is simply laughable. She was around, she saw what was happening. She knew. She was complicit.
That is credible and makes perfect sense, Andrew.

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