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Author Topic: Did Landy ever realize he did anything wrong?  (Read 52731 times)
Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
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« Reply #125 on: March 12, 2015, 11:50:34 AM »

Brian created the ultimate Beach Boys masterpiece in 'Pet Sounds'. Brian went supernova. Is it possible he creatively peaked at that time? Yes, the drug experimentation, possible mental health issues and the peer pressure  Roll Eyes played a part with Brian's lack of creativity or desire to create music post Smile. But tell me what masterpiece Lennon and McCartney created on their own post Beatles? They achieved some success on the charts but nothing they created would ever rival Sgt Peppers or many of their other Beatles albums. Lennon and McCartney peaked with the Beatles. I think George Martin played a big role in that success as well.

I'm sure at the time some would say that forcing Brian to get back in the studio and even on stage was 'good therapy'. Brain makes music. Maybe it was thought that it would help Brian get back to his old self. I think Landy DID save Brian's life but yes, the devil was in the details.

Interesting conversation as always but let's forget about what could have been. Brian appears to be very happy with his wife, children and home life. He's enjoying himself. Nice to see that picture of Brian at the corner store. What kind of pizza do you like, Brian? Who would have thought back in the late 1970's that Brian would be here now in 2015 creating wonderful music while we think about his brothers and what could have been if they were here today. They are missed.

God bless you, Brian. We're looking forward to a wonderful year! Thanks for the music.



I really wish I could understand what so many people see in the fluff that is Pepper. I really do feel like I'm living in the bizarro world sometimes because the idea that that album is some kind of unreachable milestone or the best work Lennon/McCartney did, much less the best work ANYONE ever did, absolutely blows my mind no matter how many times I hear it.

Anyway, I actually think a lot of McCartney's solo work is great and underrated. Live and Let Die, Band on the Run, Jet...those are mini masterpieces in my view. Never really heard Lennons solo work. That infamous cover was certainly a major turn off and I don't see what's so great about Imagine. It's just pandering pipe dreams. Pretentious lyrics and simple instrumentation. Not to mention he's a hypocrite acting like he's some beacon of hope and enlightenment after beating his wife and abandoning his son.

I've yet to hear much of Georges stuff, but he released a triple album. I'm sure some of that at least is worth listening to.

Maybe a bit off topic but I thought this warranted mention.

Edit: George Martin absolutely played a role in their success. He was a brilliant producer who brought life to many of their otherwise "good not great" songs. But I'd also say Brian Epstein really made them the worldwide smash they became. They really must have had a great PR team if the general public hails them as the best band ever unquestionably to this day. There were so many great bands of the 60s but they continue to get all the attention. We'Ve got posters here literally comparing them to Shakespeare, saying they were solely responsible for the counterculture and all other forms of hyperbolic nonsense. Their music is great, but if you took an alien, played him all the 60s musicians you could find with no context, I don't think the Beatles music would stand out that much from their peers if at all. Even if you played every album from every major band in chronological order, I don't think the Beatles albums would stand out, except maybe Rubber Soul in its cohesiveness. What perpetuates the "greatest band ever, omg! and no one else even comes close!" mantra is the amazing PR machine they've got working, which by now is so entrenched it's accepted as indisputable fact.


Not trying to veer off topic, but since you brought this up, that's my two cents. In any case it's a moot point. Brian shouldn't have been forced to be producer anymore. Getting him to write and play music again is one thing. But being everyone's breadwinner is exactly what lead to his breakdown in the first place.
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« Reply #126 on: March 12, 2015, 12:08:08 PM »

Brian created the ultimate Beach Boys masterpiece in 'Pet Sounds'. Brian went supernova. Is it possible he creatively peaked at that time? Yes, the drug experimentation, possible mental health issues and the peer pressure  Roll Eyes played a part with Brian's lack of creativity or desire to create music post Smile. But tell me what masterpiece Lennon and McCartney created on their own post Beatles? They achieved some success on the charts but nothing they created would ever rival Sgt Peppers or many of their other Beatles albums. Lennon and McCartney peaked with the Beatles. I think George Martin played a big role in that success as well.

I'm sure at the time some would say that forcing Brian to get back in the studio and even on stage was 'good therapy'. Brain makes music. Maybe it was thought that it would help Brian get back to his old self. I think Landy DID save Brian's life but yes, the devil was in the details.

Interesting conversation as always but let's forget about what could have been. Brian appears to be very happy with his wife, children and home life. He's enjoying himself. Nice to see that picture of Brian at the corner store. What kind of pizza do you like, Brian? Who would have thought back in the late 1970's that Brian would be here now in 2015 creating wonderful music while we think about his brothers and what could have been if they were here today. They are missed.

God bless you, Brian. We're looking forward to a wonderful year! Thanks for the music.



I really wish I could understand what so many people see in the fluff that is Pepper. I really do feel like I'm living in the bizarro world sometimes because the idea that that album is some kind of unreachable milestone or the best work Lennon/McCartney did, much less the best work ANYONE ever did, absolutely blows my mind no matter how many times I hear it.

Anyway, I actually think a lot of McCartney's solo work is great and underrated. Live and Let Die, Band on the Run, Jet...those are mini masterpieces in my view. Never really heard Lennons solo work. That infamous cover was certainly a major turn off and I don't see what's so great about Imagine. It's just pandering pipe dreams. Pretentious lyrics and simple instrumentation. Not to mention he's a hypocrite acting like he's some beacon of hope and enlightenment after beating his wife and abandoning his son.

I've yet to hear much of Georges stuff, but he released a triple album. I'm sure some of that at least is worth listening to.

Maybe a bit off topic but I thought this warranted mention.

Edit: George Martin absolutely played a role in their success. He was a brilliant producer who brought life to many of their otherwise "good not great" songs. But I'd also say Brian Epstein really made them the worldwide smash they became. They really must have had a great PR team if the general public hails them as the best band ever unquestionably to this day. There were so many great bands of the 60s but they continue to get all the attention. We'Ve got posters here literally comparing them to Shakespeare, saying they were solely responsible for the counterculture and all other forms of hyperbolic nonsense. Their music is great, but if you took an alien, played him all the 60s musicians you could find with no context, I don't think the Beatles music would stand out that much from their peers if at all. Even if you played every album from every major band in chronological order, I don't think the Beatles albums would stand out, except maybe Rubber Soul in its cohesiveness. What perpetuates the "greatest band ever, omg! and no one else even comes close!" mantra is the amazing PR machine they've got working, which by now is so entrenched it's accepted as indisputable fact.


Not trying to veer off topic, but since you brought this up, that's my two cents. In any case it's a moot point. Brian shouldn't have been forced to be producer anymore. Getting him to write and play music again is one thing. But being everyone's breadwinner is exactly what lead to his breakdown in the first place.

LOL.  I tend to agree, especially when I compare Sgt. Peppers to some (most?) of Brian's best work.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #127 on: March 12, 2015, 12:13:29 PM »

Well in the BS Landy/Brian biography Landy made sure to put something in there about how he was going to SAVE Denny next and obviously ran out of time.

My two cents. I give Landy nearly NO credit in any form. A thousand reputable doctors could have/should have treated Brian. People speculate on what if's here all the time. What if a true doctor, instead of that hack that drugged the hell out of Brian, had helped him.

Interesting, I did not know that Landy ever actually stated that (since I've never bothered to read that fake Brian bio).
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John Malone
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« Reply #128 on: March 12, 2015, 01:38:40 PM »

Alexandra Morgan's one woman play, Sexagenarian, has its own website: http://www.am-sexagenarian.com/contact.html

Here's her profile in the bio section:

Actor, poet, playwright, teacher, Alexandra is an original member of The Company Theater, LA’s premier experimental theater group founded in 1968.  In a previous incarnation, she starred in Arthur Miller’s After the Fall and The Crucible at the Ahmanson. The LA Free Press nominated her for best actress in 1974. Along with the Company, she appeared in the smash-hit environmental theater piece, The James Joyce Liquid Memorial Theater, to sold out performances in LA, San Francisco, and the Guggenheim Museum in NYC.  Alexandra also stars in the cult classic, First Nudie Musical, where she was singled out by Judith Crist for her daring hilarity. She doesn’t like to talk about it, but if you do your research, you may discover that she wrote lyrics for Brian Wilson on several albums.


Here are my two cents:

If "she doesn't like to talk about it," then why in the hell did she write it into her own profile on her own web page? Still trying to trade on the BW name, huh? This provides the answer to the question in the thread title. Did Landy ever realize he did anything wrong? Absolute not then. And obviously, with Alexandra, not now either.
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Mikie
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« Reply #129 on: March 12, 2015, 01:50:20 PM »

Nothing wrong with Alexandra Morgan that I can see. Give her a break. Personally, I like her contributions to the songs "Love & Mercy", "There's So Many", "Let It Shine", "Night Time", and "Being With The One You Love". I'd like to encourage her to talk about it.  Smiley
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 01:52:15 PM by Mikie » Logged

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #130 on: March 12, 2015, 02:04:17 PM »

Well in the BS Landy/Brian biography Landy made sure to put something in there about how he was going to SAVE Denny next and obviously ran out of time.

My two cents. I give Landy nearly NO credit in any form. A thousand reputable doctors could have/should have treated Brian. People speculate on what if's here all the time. What if a true doctor, instead of that hack that drugged the hell out of Brian, had helped him.

Interesting, I did not know that Landy ever actually stated that (since I've never bothered to read that fake Brian bio).

Good for you 'cause it was really horrible. I did not even keep my copy after paying full price when it came out. It made me angry to read it because it was so obviously a pile of rubbish.  Just like when Sawyer interviewed him....your blood pressure would shoot up.
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John Malone
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« Reply #131 on: March 12, 2015, 02:30:28 PM »

Nothing wrong with Alexandra Morgan that I can see. Give her a break. Personally, I like her contributions to the songs "Love & Mercy", "There's So Many", "Let It Shine", "Night Time", and "Being With The One You Love". I'd like to encourage her to talk about it.  Smiley

OK, then. Given that Ms. Morgan gets a free pass from the Landy court-of-public opinion, she should come forward and tell all. After all, the millions that were siphoned off Brian's bank account for better than a decade are probably still drawing interest in her bank accounts.
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« Reply #132 on: March 12, 2015, 02:46:21 PM »

His last words before passing on was "Tell Brian that there is another Wilson and his name is Zeppooooooooooo...... ahhhhhhhh."
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Mikie
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« Reply #133 on: March 12, 2015, 03:01:26 PM »

Alexandra more than likely didn't have much to do with Landy's business affairs, other than to write lyrics for the Brian Wilson '88 and Sweet Insanity albums. Probably her association with the controversial Landy is why she doesn't want to discuss the songwriting part of it. It's entirely possible that legally, she can't discuss it. She'd obviously rather talk about her acting career anyway.

After Landy checked out, Alexandra stated, "His [Landy's] one regret was that he didn't get out sooner. If anything, he lost sight of what was best for Eugene in his desire to help Brian."
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #134 on: March 12, 2015, 03:14:48 PM »

Alexandra more than likely didn't have much to do with Landy's business affairs, other than to write lyrics for the Brian Wilson '88 and Sweet Insanity albums. Probably her association with the controversial Landy is why she doesn't want to discuss the songwriting part of it. It's entirely possible that legally, she can't discuss it. She'd obviously rather talk about her acting career anyway.

After Landy checked out, Alexandra stated, "His [Landy's] one regret was that he didn't get out sooner. If anything, he lost sight of what was best for Eugene in his desire to help Brian."

Pure horseshit.   His one regret is that he and Alexandra got nailed having his patient alter his will , making them the prime beneficiaries of Brian Wilson's estate....
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« Reply #135 on: March 12, 2015, 03:19:34 PM »

Alexandra more than likely didn't have much to do with Landy's business affairs, other than to write lyrics for the Brian Wilson '88 and Sweet Insanity albums. Probably her association with the controversial Landy is why she doesn't want to discuss the songwriting part of it. It's entirely possible that legally, she can't discuss it. She'd obviously rather talk about her acting career anyway.

After Landy checked out, Alexandra stated, "His [Landy's] one regret was that he didn't get out sooner. If anything, he lost sight of what was best for Eugene in his desire to help Brian."

As Ray Lawlor said about Landy, "not dead enough yet..."  "His [Landy's] one regret was that he didn't get out sooner." - You mean kill Brian sooner so he and Alexandra could make off with the remainder of the estate?  I have no desire to make excuses for this woman, even if she wrote some of the most unintentionally funny lyrics ever.  She profited handsomely from what was done to Brian during that time.  I will save my sympathies for those who deserve them.

Oops - just saw Ray posted at the same time.  This is despicable. 
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 03:21:08 PM by Debbie Keil-Leavitt » Logged
John Malone
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« Reply #136 on: March 12, 2015, 03:34:16 PM »

She'd obviously rather talk about her acting career anyway.

Again...then why in the world would she include her Brian Wilson association in her publicity bio?
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« Reply #137 on: March 12, 2015, 03:44:00 PM »

Gee, Ray, been waitin' 3 days for you to come on this thread to help weed out the truth from bullshit!  Finally, I state a fact about Alexandra along with some speculation and you decide to call bullshit. I know you did that respectfully, Ray, maybe after a 6-er of Artois(?)

Then Debbie comes along, following Ray as she seems to be doing on the Love & Mercy thread putting in her .02 sense saying Alexandra's lyrics are "funny". Granted Alexandra's credits were subsequently removed from "Love & Mercy", but I don't find any of the lyrics to the above songs "funny". Why do you think they're funny, Debbie?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 04:08:26 PM by Mikie » Logged

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #138 on: March 12, 2015, 03:47:46 PM »

She'd obviously rather talk about her acting career anyway.

Again...then why in the world would she include her Brian Wilson association in her publicity bio?

Perhaps - as might be the case with Landy - she didn't realize what was going on, and didn't see how evil Landy's behavior towards Brian was.

She was Landy's patient first, love affair second. Thus, Landy probably had a very strong influence on her (especially since she may have had an easily "corrupted" mind, as she needed the services of a psychologist, but that's speculation), and might have been able to convince her, intentionally or not, that they weren't doing anything wrong. Maybe she's still convinced of it to this day.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 03:50:17 PM by SloopJohnB » Logged

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« Reply #139 on: March 12, 2015, 03:50:45 PM »

She'd obviously rather talk about her acting career anyway.

Again...then why in the world would she include her Brian Wilson association in her publicity bio?

You ever name-dropped on a resume or interview or mentioned to someone that you met a Rock star by name, John? If you wrote lyrics to a bunch of songs that were released on a couple of albums and a single by a Rock star, would you put it in your bio or resume some place? Like I said above, maybe she doesn't want to re-live it by people asking her about it or she doesn't want to be associated by the controversial subject surrounding her husband. Notice her last name is still "Morgan".

By the way, John, do you know about a story about Brian and Gary Usher's wife?  How about Brian and a pager and a toilet?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 03:55:54 PM by Mikie » Logged

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #140 on: March 12, 2015, 03:53:12 PM »

Nothing wrong with Alexandra Morgan that I can see. Give her a break. Personally, I like her contributions to the songs "Love & Mercy", "There's So Many", "Let It Shine", "Night Time", and "Being With The One You Love". I'd like to encourage her to talk about it.  Smiley

OK, then. Given that Ms. Morgan gets a free pass from the Landy court-of-public opinion, she should come forward and tell all. After all, the millions that were siphoned off Brian's bank account for better than a decade are probably still drawing interest in her bank accounts.
Not sure she is getting a pass...if what I'm reading here is true and verified...surprising that they were not "disgorged" of their ill-gotten gains.  And the whole concept of the attempt to cause his rightful heirs to be disinherited.  

Who does this?  Predators and frauds.  

Gross beyond words.

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Ray Lawlor
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« Reply #141 on: March 12, 2015, 03:53:54 PM »

Gee, Ray, been waitin' 3 days for you to come on this thread to help weed out the truth from bullshit!  Finally, I state a fact about Alexandra along with some speculation and you decide to call bullshit. I know you did that respectfully, Ray, maybe after a 6-er of Artois(?)

Then Debbie comes along, following Ray as she seems to be doing on the Love & Mercy thread putting in her .02 sense saying Alexandra's lyrics are "funny". Granted Alexandra's credits were subsequently removed from "Love & Mercy", but I don't find any of the lyrics to the above songs "funny". Why do you think they're funny, Debbie? No funnier than "The Night Was So Young", I'd say.

Hi Mikie;  I try to hang loose until I have something what I consider relevant to say. I called bullshit on her quote, not your usage of it.
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« Reply #142 on: March 12, 2015, 03:54:43 PM »


My two cents. I give Landy nearly NO credit in any form. A thousand reputable doctors could have/should have treated Brian.

Exactly, people acting like Landy was the only person on the planet who could treat Brian is just bizarre.


I've yet to hear much of Georges stuff, but he released a triple album. I'm sure some of that at least is worth listening to.

All Things Must Pass. Better than any Beatles album by a considerable mile.

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« Reply #143 on: March 12, 2015, 03:59:45 PM »

Giving Landy credit for what he accomplished isn't the same as saying nobody else could have done it.  History just tells us that he WAS the person who did it.  I think people are just saying to his credit he did straighten Brian out (for awhile).

Landy undoubtedly used some strong arm techniques, that may have been the difference between him and other doctors.  He wasn't able to strong arm Dennis but was in a position where he could basically abuse Brian into doing what he wanted.  If another doctor would have been involved he may not have been able to achieve results because his ethics would keep him in line.


With that said though, Brian's done even better without Landy than he ever did with him, so that's something and a testament to the other doctors that have worked with him. 
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« Reply #144 on: March 12, 2015, 04:00:37 PM »


All Things Must Pass. Better than any Beatles album by a considerable mile.



Come on now. 
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #145 on: March 12, 2015, 04:01:23 PM »


My two cents. I give Landy nearly NO credit in any form. A thousand reputable doctors could have/should have treated Brian.

Exactly, people acting like Landy was the only person on the planet who could treat Brian is just bizarre.


I don't think that he was the only person on the planet who could treat Brian... however, in late '82, at a time of extreme desperation and with the clock ticking fast with Brian's addictions at their worst, I'm not sure the family knew or had access/awareness of anyone else who could have sobered Brian up. I think it was a matter of ignorance of being aware of anyone better, or anyone who would work at all, for that matter (clearly they didn't like Landy in many ways, and it had to be a bite-the-tongue situation made out of desperation).

As I recall, Melinda on the now-deleted-from-Youtube Larry King video said something to the effect of "they had the best doctors at UCLA just minutes away", criticizing the family and Marilyn in particular... a criticism which does sound logical and makes sense to me, in 30 years hindsight... and I'm not sure why the UCLA thing wasn't a valid option at the time.

That said, not to give the family a free pass for handing Brian off to Landy in 1982/1983, but it would seem that they probably had well-intended reasons that made sense to them at the time, wouldn't you think?
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« Reply #146 on: March 12, 2015, 04:02:34 PM »

Gee, Ray, been waitin' 3 days for you to come on this thread to help weed out the truth from bullshit!  Finally, I state a fact about Alexandra along with some speculation and you decide to call bullshit. I know you did that respectfully, Ray, maybe after a 6-er of Artois(?)

Then Debbie comes along, following Ray as she seems to be doing on the Love & Mercy thread putting in her .02 sense saying Alexandra's lyrics are "funny". Granted Alexandra's credits were subsequently removed from "Love & Mercy", but I don't find any of the lyrics to the above songs "funny". Why do you think they're funny, Debbie? No funnier than "The Night Was So Young", I'd say.

Hi Mikie;  I try to hang loose until I have something what I consider relevant to say. I called bullshit on her quote, not your usage of it.

I thought so. I never post bullshit on purpose, Ray, unless I'm egging someone on or being sarcastic. Like you and AGD and Stebbins and Howie, I don't hesitate to call it when I see it either. I usually try to check more than one source for the info. There's so much speculation on this board, we need guys like you around to tell it like it is.
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #147 on: March 12, 2015, 04:05:42 PM »

Exactly, people acting like Landy was the only person on the planet who could treat Brian is just bizarre.

Who did that? Somebody here? They should get smacked!!
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #148 on: March 12, 2015, 04:05:52 PM »

Giving Landy credit for what he accomplished isn't the same as saying nobody else could have done it.  History just tells us that he WAS the person who did it.  I think people are just saying to his credit he did straighten Brian out (for awhile).

Landy undoubtedly used some strong arm techniques, that may have been the difference between him and other doctors.  He wasn't able to strong arm Dennis but was in a position where he could basically abuse Brian into doing what he wanted.  If another doctor would have been involved he may not have been able to achieve results because his ethics would keep him in line.

I basically agree with that. Landy went above and beyond, too far (at a time when the family knew of no other resource to get results, and maybe they needed someone who was ethically questionable to go that bit too far, to essentially scare and force him into sobriety). I dunno. It sounds awful to in any way, shape or form condone that, but it did work at the time, before it very quickly escalated and got way, way, way out of line of course.

I wish there could have been a better way, and there surely was... but I guess nobody in the family really quite knew what that better way was at the time.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 04:07:31 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #149 on: March 12, 2015, 04:15:23 PM »

Juuuuuuust kidding.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 04:35:22 PM by Mikie » Logged

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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