interesting article: "Mike Love states his case"

[HeyJude]

Yesterday, because it was down, it was lame, today, it's Mike's '88 speech.  

Pulling such articles is lame, as is altering them after publication (other than fixing typos or correcting factual inaccuracies; in which case, most publications add an addendum at the bottom stating when and what was changed).

Once the article is up (any version of it), characterizing that article is a whole separate issue. So yes, one day it came be lame for being pulled, and the next day be characterized as being like Mike’s ’88 speech once it’s back up.

Very easy for me to say, but if I was trying to simply find out what Mike thinks of the new Brian track, and I got *that* response, I wouldn’t run it. My immediate thought would be “Hmm, I think I’m just being used as a de facto PR agent for an unprompted, inflammatory essay.” Perhaps such an e-mail might be usable later when putting a large piece together getting into the band’s feelings about each other and C50 and future projects, etc.

But, even if you think for some reason that the “NPP” press release was the biggest a-hole press release of all time, and you think Mike is being persecuted, even then it would be patently obvious that publishing such an e-mail from Mike would just inflame things. If one feels it’s okay to inflame things in such a way, then cool. But then it doesn’t compute to me to then be incredulous about the inevitable inflamed reaction.

[HeyJude]

You know what you should ask him next though? What he thinks of 'The Right Time'. Would make a good question I think.

I think Mike may just agree to a Smiley Smile Q&A, which perhaps would go something like this:

Q: Mike, what’s your favorite pizza?

A: Set end date.

[CenturyDeprived]

You know what you should ask him next though? What he thinks of 'The Right Time'. Would make a good question I think.

I think Mike may just agree to a Smiley Smile Q&A, which perhaps would go something like this:

Q: Mike, what’s your favorite pizza?

A: Set end date.

 

[Micha]

Mike *thinks* he has the evidence/track record backing his theory that a BB album needs to be Wilson/Love co-writes

Unlikely IMHO. If that were the case, Mike wouldn't have done the TWGMTR album.

maybe some execs at Capitol were aware of Mike's recent songwriting proclivities, maybe they had listened to "Summer in Paradise", and maybe they didn't want an album FULL of Mike Love lyrics.

HIGHLY unlikely IMHO. Or is SMiLE Brian a Capitol exec? I don't think Mike insists on a full album of just Wilson/Love penned songs either.

There's also the issue of whether, perhaps, Brian just didn't want to write with Mike in the "old style." For whatever reason, whether it makes him uncomfortable or he feels it's not going to produce the best results, or whatever.

Very likely I think - why else would Brian not agree to write with Mike?

[HeyJude]

Mike *thinks* he has the evidence/track record backing his theory that a BB album needs to be Wilson/Love co-writes

Unlikely IMHO. If that were the case, Mike wouldn't have done the TWGMTR album.

maybe some execs at Capitol were aware of Mike's recent songwriting proclivities, maybe they had listened to "Summer in Paradise", and maybe they didn't want an album FULL of Mike Love lyrics.

HIGHLY unlikely IMHO. Or is SMiLE Brian a Capitol exec? I don't think Mike insists on a full album of just Wilson/Love penned songs either.

There's also the issue of whether, perhaps, Brian just didn't want to write with Mike in the "old style." For whatever reason, whether it makes him uncomfortable or he feels it's not going to produce the best results, or whatever.

Very likely I think - why else would Brian not agree to write with Mike?

As I mentioned, I think TWGMTR was a begrudging compromise, having more to do with expediting getting the album and tour together. I don’t think Mike thinks a BB album *has* to be Wilson/Love tracks (otherwise he wouldn’t have released SIP). But he certainly feels that’s a formula that will result in better product. The track record of recent years or decades doesn’t particularly support this, especially considering Mike seems to measure success more by sales and sustained chart success rather than critical praise.

And of course Mike presumably isn’t implying any BB album should be nothing but Wilson/Love co-writes. But he also feels that his level of songwriting credits on TWGMTR was not at all significant input, even though his name is on 4 of the 12 songs. So I would presume even half of an album with his input might not be enough, if 1/3 of the album featuring his name is something he doesn’t consider as a significant amount of input. Also, when Mike has discussed TWGMTR, he hasn’t suggested that Al or Dave or Bruce should have significant input. I’m not suggesting he would be opposed to those guys having input. But the idea of them having input doesn’t appear to enter into his mind enough to even suggest it. He also seems to specifically be off-put by using pre-existing Wilson/Thomas co-writes. So it sounds like he is advocating for an album dominated by newly-written-from-scratch Wilson/Love songs.

My theory about Capitol having any misgivings about heavy Mike lyrical involvement was just a theory. It’s plausible, nothing more. We do have comments from band members that Capitol execs had some level of control over the album’s track selection. We also know they scored the deal based off of Wilson/Thomas tracks. So I don’t think it’s out of line to suggest perhaps Capitol would not have been amenable to a shift towards mostly newly-written Wilson/Love tracks.

[Andrew G. Doe]

"And would some Power the small gift give us
To see ourselves as others see us!
It would from many a blunder free us,
And foolish notion:
What airs in dress and gait would leave us,
And even devotion!"

From To A Louse, Robert Burns, 1786.

[Mendota Heights]

And bending down beside the glowing bars,
Murmur, a little sadly, how Love fled
And paced upon the mountains overhead
And hid his face amid a crowd of stars.

From When You Are Old, William Butler Yeats, 1893.

[Andrew G. Doe]

A poem composed post mortem, apparently. 

[Mendota Heights]

A poem composed post mortem, apparently.  

Yes, it is about being really old and Yeats took to great lengths in this case.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Pinder, I owe you an apology. The whole "maybe Mike wrote Vega-Tables" theory came from Cam it seems.

It was "Mama Says", not "Vega-Tables".

Same exact thing?

[wilsonart1]

Andrew Doe...Should invite you to ride a slab of spring ice.. fish during the ride or sip a glass of wine.  The golden sunshine decides the time of the ride.  After on the shore next to a fire you can have the first two hours of bear watch.  Get's the blood flowing.  Still not sure which Wilson songs go best with this pastime...seems all do!  Doe a deer, the bears eat here!

[Lowbacca]

You know what you should ask him next though? What he thinks of 'The Right Time'. Would make a good question I think.

I think Mike may just agree to a Smiley Smile Q&A, which perhaps would go something like this:

Q: Mike, what’s your favorite pizza?

A: Set end date.

[CenturyDeprived]

I think it's time Mike get back into the rap duet mode, after having the Bart Simpson "Summer of Love" collab sadly fall through years prior.

"Mike Love States His Case That They Gave Me" could be an opportunity for the Snoop Dogg/Love combo that the world's been waiting for.  

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

You know what you should ask him next though? What he thinks of 'The Right Time'. Would make a good question I think.

I think Mike may just agree to a Smiley Smile Q&A, which perhaps would go something like this:

Q: Mike, what’s your favorite pizza?

A: Set end date.

More like "well, I try to take care about my body and what I put into it, which is why I've never used drugs. My cousin Brian, on the other hand..."

[Cam Mott]

Pinder, I owe you an apology. The whole "maybe Mike wrote Vega-Tables" theory came from Cam it seems.

It was "Mama Says", not "Vega-Tables".

Same exact thing?

In what Universe?

[bgas]

Pinder, I owe you an apology. The whole "maybe Mike wrote Vega-Tables" theory came from Cam it seems.

It was "Mama Says", not "Vega-Tables".

Same exact thing?

In what Universe?

In the Cam-y Way?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Pinder, I owe you an apology. The whole "maybe Mike wrote Vega-Tables" theory came from Cam it seems.

It was "Mama Says", not "Vega-Tables".

Same exact thing?

In what Universe?

There was a period where Mama Says was a section of Vega-Tables and if my memory serves correctly, you were suggesting that it was possible that Mike wrote the section during the period when it was part of Vega-Tables (even though, in reality, the section was written before that).

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Pinder, I owe you an apology. The whole "maybe Mike wrote Vega-Tables" theory came from Cam it seems.

It was "Mama Says", not "Vega-Tables".

Same exact thing?

In what Universe?

There was a period where Mama Says was a section of Vega-Tables and if my memory serves correctly, you were suggesting that it was possible that Mike wrote the section during the period when it was part of Vega-Tables (even though, in reality, the section was written before that).

Right. I believe it was recorded originally in January as "Do a Lot" a Heroes fragment. It's undeniably linked to SMiLE in any case, which by all accounts Mike was uninvolved in the creative process for (unless you count GV, and even then Brian wanted VDP for that) and if he really had written that chant, wouldn't you expect Mike of all people to broadcast it time and again by now? Its be the perfect defense to the "killed SMiLE" accusations. All he has to say is "I wrote some lyrics for it" And suddenly he's a collaborator in their best work. Knowing Mike, that seems like something he'd surely do.

It's a wild accusation any way you slice it. There's no evidence, concrete or circumstantial as far as I can see, and if you're gonna make it, it's up to you to back it up.

[Cam Mott]

I'm pretty sure I pointed out that "Mama Says" is on the Wild Honey album and is copyrighted and credited to Brian and Mike alone.

[Dancing Bear]

Mama Says...

The answer is simple. For ONE album Mike and Brian pulled a "Lennon & McCartney" or a "Jagger & Richards". Every original song would be a "Wilson & Love" collaboration, even if it wasn't. Or if the lyrics weren't written by someone else like Parks or Asher.

"Mama Says" was written solely by Brian, but it was credited to both. No big deal. Brian didn't mind sharing the credits for this little dittie and Mike didn't really make big bucks from this track alone.

End of story. 

[Cam Mott]

Well, we are way off topic now but for what it is worth some one who claimed to BE havin' the songwriting breakdown for some of the Wild Honey songs posted this on PSML (I believe) a long time ago. It supposedly showed the split of record next to the title and the second line supposedly showed who got how much credit for lyrics. Can't vouch for it's authenticity beyond that.

Wild Honey -- Brian 50%, Mike 50%
lyrics: Mike 100%

Aren't You Glad -- Brian 70%, Mike 30%
lyrics: Brian 40%, Mike 60%

Country Air -- Brian 70%, Mike 30%
lyrics: Brian 40%, Mike 60%

A Thing or Two -- Brian 60%, Mike 40%
lyrics: Brian 20%, Mike 80%

Darlin' -- Brian 70%, Mike 30%
lyrics: Brian 40%, Mike 60%

I'd Love Just Once to See You -- Brian 70%, Mike 30%
lyrics: Brian 40%, Mike 60%

Let the Wind Blow -- Brian 60%, Mike 40%
lyrics: Brian 20%, Mike 80%

How She Boogalooed It -- Mike, Alan, Bruce and Carl: 25% each
lyrics: Mike 50%, others 50%

Mama Says -- Brian 60%, Mike 40%
lyrics: Brian 20%, Mike 80%
 

[CenturyDeprived]

Mama Says...

The answer is simple. For ONE album Mike and Brian pulled a "Lennon & McCartney" or a "Jagger & Richards". Every original song would be a "Wilson & Love" collaboration, even if it wasn't. Or if the lyrics weren't written by someone else like Parks or Asher.

"Mama Says" was written solely by Brian, but it was credited to both. No big deal. Brian didn't mind sharing the credits for this little dittie and Mike didn't really make big bucks from this track alone.

End of story.  

That might well be true, actually.

Nobody has ever been able to appropriately explain the reasoning behind the "by Brian and Mike" credit on the "Gettin' Hungry" single, and this would seem to run tandem to that.

Mike reclaiming his rightful spot as an important, vital part of the songwriting process within the band, at a point when Brian wasn't emotionally vulnerable or feeling defeated in the slightest, and whose emotional state surely played no factor in this happening.

[donald]

I wonder if a Wilson/ Love composition, a good one, would get more backing a support from a record company than a good Brian track.   

[Dancing Bear]

I wonder if a Wilson/ Love composition, a good one, would get more backing a support from a record company than a good Brian track.   

In 1967 or 2015?

I think Capitol in 1967 didn't care if the next Beach Boys single was written by Brian and... Peter Noone, as long as it sold. You build a "Jagger & Richards" trademark partnership which the buying public cares about only if you do it from the get go - yeah I know about Nanker / Pheldge - or if you persevere with it, like three or four albums in a row.

[Dancing Bear]

Mama Says...

The answer is simple. For ONE album Mike and Brian pulled a "Lennon & McCartney" or a "Jagger & Richards". Every original song would be a "Wilson & Love" collaboration, even if it wasn't. Or if the lyrics weren't written by someone else like Parks or Asher.

"Mama Says" was written solely by Brian, but it was credited to both. No big deal. Brian didn't mind sharing the credits for this little dittie and Mike didn't really make big bucks from this track alone.

End of story.  

That might well be true, actually.

Nobody has ever been able to appropriately explain the reasoning behind the "by Brian and Mike" credit on the "Gettin' Hungry" single, and this would seem to run tandem to that.

Mike reclaiming his rightful spot as an important, vital part of the songwriting process within the band, at a point when Brian wasn't emotionally vulnerable or feeling defeated in the slightest, and whose emotional state surely played no factor in this happening.

Well I thought they were just having a good time writing songs together for the next R'N'B influenced Beach Boys' album....

But if it's necessary for you - with no evidence in contemporary or more recent interviews - to fantasize about Mike forcing his way and Brian feeling defeated and bending over... Ok. But it's just weird.