interesting article: "Mike Love states his case"

[Cam Mott]

Talk by promoters and labels and unilateral predictions of future albums isn't "discussion in the group". In 2012, no mention of discussion in the group just talk by someone, nothing set in stone, group plans are in the future after C50. In 2015, nothing was ever in writing or concrete so no plans.  It still seems to me they were/are all open to plans but those talking to the group apparently never present anything in writing and there is no discussion in the group of plans. Anyway, like somebody said earlier the whole thing screams of no discussion within the group.

Wait... "Talk" and "predictions" don't amount to even mere "discussion" to you? C'mon.

As I've said, even if one is inclined to be extra sympathetic towards Mike, you have to admit this new interview is a disaster for the interviewer and interviewee.

Well, we are just going by 3 interviews but "talk" and "predictions" don't  equal "discussion in the group", no.  It could mean discussion but it still doesn't say it was "in the group" and it was in the context of promoters and Capitol talking but not having anything "set in stone" and group plans being made at some later date. And then Mike later claim is there were no "discussions in the group" and plans were never presented in writing and nothing was "concrete". So there is all of that.

No I don't see the interview as a disaster. A guy was asked some questions and he gave some answers along with some compliments.

[HeyJude]

Well, we are just going by 3 interviews but "talk" and "predictions" don't  equal "discussion in the group", no.  It could mean discussion but it still doesn't say it was "in the group" and it was in the context of promoters and Capitol talking but not having anything "set in stone" and group plans being made at some later date. And then Mike later claim is there were no "discussions in the group" and plans were never presented in writing and nothing was "concrete". So there is all of that.

No I don't see the interview as a disaster. A guy was asked some questions and he gave some answers along with some compliments.

Yeah, to me, that’s a HUGE stretch. “Talk” and “predictions” don’t amount to “discussion?” Maybe that’s how you define those words, but I’m not inclined to assume Mike defines those words that way. His interview reads like nobody mentioned *word one* about doing another album. I don’t think anyone would come away from that interview assuming “well, maybe smaller groups of band members talked about it, but the five never sat down and had a hardcore planning session for the next album.” A typical person, I believe, would come away thinking nobody ever said *anything* to each other about the possibility of another album.

Further, to the degree Brian (and/or his album press release) discusses the topic, it has never been anything more than suggesting Brian was planning or hoping for another album. Brian has never said there was a concrete contract to do another album.

The issue at hand is, why does Mike take issue with what the NPP press release says? It simply says Brian wanted/planned for another BB album, but it was “not to be.” It doesn’t say Mike promised to do another album and then went back on his word. Even in a scenario where nobody said word one about a new album, and Brian just dreamed it all up in his mind, even then I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the NPP press release.

Which gets us back to, what exactly did David Beard say or imply to Mike?

[ToneBender631]

Why do I think that even if Mike apologized in public for everything atrocious he's ever done to Cousin Brian - like some fans believe that he should - then the haters would say "I don't know, did he really mean it?"...

I think that the perceived success of C50 (from outside), went a long way with the fans in Brian's camp. The quality of the album, the smiles on-stage and when being interviewed...It seemed that they'd all moved on, so the fans finally could do. And then, they reverted back to their norm and all was clearly not forgiven.

They came into C50 as a career .283 hitter, and then at age 39 they inexplicably batted .357 for April through August before eventually coming back down to earth and hitting .220 for the remainder of the season, into the playoffs. The obvious explanation is that someone was on the juice.

[The Shift]

Which gets us back to, what exactly did David Beard say or imply to Mike?

David states quite plainly what he said to Mike:

To clear up any misunderstandings, and to give Love an opportunity to tell us his side of the story, I asked him one question: ""Have you heard Brian's new song, 'The Right Time'?" It seemed, the best way to get the conversation rolling, would be to have Love comment on the new recording, which features three of his former colleagues.

How he knew Mike would go into full flow like that on the basis of such a seemingly innocuous question floors me. Very perceptive.

[Paul J B]

Just curious...were the Disney and Gershwin albums art? I would argue they were oldies covers.

Art ? That's up to how you define art, but what they certainly weren't were straight covers: considerable thought went into how each would be re-imagined.

I know a lot of thought went into those records but the "art" had already been created decades ago. Same with BWPS. Straight covers no, but giving Disney and Gershwin the Pet Sounds treatment is far from the avant-garde genius people like to pretend is what happens every time Brian walks into a recording studio.

My beef is that these people that can't stand Mike Love are incapable of keeping their gripes relevant to certain things Mike does. It always goes back to this crap about money, greed, he killed Smile, ect. and it's a false charge. It's a tiresome charge. And it's why guys like Pinder or myself are compelled to call it for the crap it is.

Carl and Al were there for Summer in Paradise and all of those late 80's 90's concerts that chugged along with cheerleaders onstage too. No one ever seems to remember that while Brian was either at home doing nothing or being brainwashed by Landy the rest of the BOYS were all about business as usual ..... not just Mike.

Furthermore, I never liked that Mike went on as the Beach Boys after Carl died but THAT IS WHAT MIKE AND BRIAN AGREED TO like it or not. Years later the unlikely C50 was a dream come true and TWGMTR a huge bonus.  To have expected more beyond that was foolish given the history of this band, these individuals, and their management.

[bossaroo]

Mike is just as good at what he does as what Brian does

perhaps but there's not a lot of genius in pointing, miming lyrics, and color coordinating. or regurgitating lyrical themes. or continuously playing the same 30 or so songs you recorded in your 20s for the last 3 or 4 decades.

Brian plays those same 30 songs too. Brian points, as well. Brian has solo music he can perform, but does he? No, he does not. He relies on the same set of songs that Mike does. Those 30 songs are the cash cows for both performers.

funny, the last time I saw Brian (and Al and Dave) they played quite a mix of hits and obscure tunes, as well as some of Brian's solo numbers. and Summer's Gone.

and didn't Brian just film a performance of nothing BUT new material?

You nit-pick over one show? Hard to have an educated conversation about this if this is how you go about proving your point. Anyone who has been to both shows know that both Brian & Mike play the hits and a few deep cuts. Brian may play a few more, but all in all it is mostly a meat & potatoes show, just like Mike's. Brian has a helluva lot more to choose from with his solo material, but he chooses not to play them, which in my eye makes him a more meat & potatoes man than Mike.

not nitpicking at all. just pointing out that Brian plays a much more diverse and satisfying (to hardcore fans) setlist on just about any given night. of the 39 songs he played when I last saw him, 13 of those were either deep cuts, solo tunes, or new material. that's a full third of the show.

oh, and he also had two other Beach Boys that he doesn't mind sharing the spotlight with. more Beach Boys than "The Beach Boys" show. how's that for meat & potatoes?

[CenturyDeprived]

Why do I think that even if Mike apologized in public for everything atrocious he's ever done to Cousin Brian - like some fans believe that he should - then the haters would say "I don't know, did he really mean it?"...

Well, while an apology for inadvertently deeply hurting Brian's feelings during Smile (and, ya know, Ol' Man River sessions, etc ) would be about half a century overdue, if it was sincere, I don't think that people would question it. When  I saw Mike talking from the heart and getting legitimately choked up at the Grammy Museum when talking about what drugs are done to his family, I felt it... It was real and sincere, and while I am critical of many actions of Mike, I would have wanted to punch somebody for saying there was anything insincere about how he came off.

[CenturyDeprived]

Why do I think that even if Mike apologized in public for everything atrocious he's ever done to Cousin Brian - like some fans believe that he should - then the haters would say "I don't know, did he really mean it?"...

Meh, I think even just a few cases of being earnest and humble and admitting some mistakes and faults would go a long way. Now, "we should have put out a greatest hits package instead of a new album that year" or something like that does not count as admitting a mistake. I mean something more like admitting a personal fault.

There was a thread awhile back where a few folks tried to think of a case of Mike admitting a fault, a personal specific fault, and one that isn't anything like "my problem is I *care* too much!" or some sort of self-deprecating "I'm an old guy" joke for the live shows, and I don't think anyone could come up with much of anything.

To me, never admitting a fault and constantly being defensive and evasive is a big warning sign. So, as I said, even a few cases of some self-refelection that doesn't result in "the lyrics I wrote were awesome for Brian's music" would be refreshing and would go a LONG way I think. Just like the simple act of *doing* the C50 project went a LOOOONG way toward making a lot of crusty, cranky fans forget about the past Mike B.S.

+1

[CenturyDeprived]

Talk by promoters and labels and unilateral predictions of future albums isn't "discussion in the group". In 2012, no mention of discussion in the group just talk by someone, nothing set in stone, group plans are in the future after C50. In 2015, nothing was ever in writing or concrete so no plans.  It still seems to me they were/are all open to plans but those talking to the group apparently never present anything in writing and there is no discussion in the group of plans. Anyway, like somebody said earlier the whole thing screams of no discussion within the group.

Wait... "Talk" and "predictions" don't amount to even mere "discussion" to you? C'mon.

As I've said, even if one is inclined to be extra sympathetic towards Mike, you have to admit this new interview is a disaster for the interviewer and interviewee.

Well, we are just going by 3 interviews but "talk" and "predictions" don't  equal "discussion in the group", no.  It could mean discussion but it still doesn't say it was "in the group" and it was in the context of promoters and Capitol talking but not having anything "set in stone" and group plans being made at some later date. And then Mike later claim is there were no "discussions in the group" and plans were never presented in writing and nothing was "concrete". So there is all of that.

No I don't see the interview as a disaster. A guy was asked some questions and he gave some answers along with some compliments.

Cam, is there any feasible way Mike could ever give an interview which you would qualify as a disaster? What what do you have to do, say he wishes for the earth to be blown up by aliens?

[SMiLE Brian]

CD wins the thread...

[drbeachboy]

Mike is just as good at what he does as what Brian does

perhaps but there's not a lot of genius in pointing, miming lyrics, and color coordinating. or regurgitating lyrical themes. or continuously playing the same 30 or so songs you recorded in your 20s for the last 3 or 4 decades.

Brian plays those same 30 songs too. Brian points, as well. Brian has solo music he can perform, but does he? No, he does not. He relies on the same set of songs that Mike does. Those 30 songs are the cash cows for both performers.

funny, the last time I saw Brian (and Al and Dave) they played quite a mix of hits and obscure tunes, as well as some of Brian's solo numbers. and Summer's Gone.

and didn't Brian just film a performance of nothing BUT new material?

You nit-pick over one show? Hard to have an educated conversation about this if this is how you go about proving your point. Anyone who has been to both shows know that both Brian & Mike play the hits and a few deep cuts. Brian may play a few more, but all in all it is mostly a meat & potatoes show, just like Mike's. Brian has a helluva lot more to choose from with his solo material, but he chooses not to play them, which in my eye makes him a more meat & potatoes man than Mike.

not nitpicking at all. just pointing out that Brian plays a much more diverse and satisfying (to hardcore fans) setlist on just about any given night. of the 39 songs he played when I last saw him, 13 of those were either deep cuts, solo tunes, or new material. that's a full third of the show.

oh, and he also had two other Beach Boys that he doesn't mind sharing the spotlight with. more Beach Boys than "The Beach Boys" show. how's that for meat & potatoes?

See, the thing is, on the whole, Brian isn't that more diverse. His last show was a TV Special, so that of course will be different. If he tours NPP, then yes, he will play a few new tunes. Even when he toured with Al, Dave & Blondie, they did very few extra deep cut tracks. I just don't see enough difference in the setlists to agree with your point. But, I do agree that Brian's shows are more satisfying having Al, Dave & Blondie on stage with him.

[bossaroo]

On another note did anyone see David Crosby's tweet about ML?

he just added the word 'exactly' https://twitter.com/thedavidcrosby/status/571087496739553281


burn.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

On another note did anyone see David Crosby's tweet about ML?

he just added the word 'exactly' https://twitter.com/thedavidcrosby/status/571087496739553281


burn.

Yeah, Crosby.... Who certainly didn't do his best to derail his own band with drugs and who's certainly not currently involved in childish drama with Neil Young .... What an authority.

Hipocrisy is great when it suits ya....

[ontor pertawst]

So to recap:

1. Mike gives a REALLY stupid interview.
2. Somehow it's Melinda's fault.
3. Brian Wilson does the same show as Mike Love and all of those tours playing entire albums or presenting new material somehow never happened because of "Pisces Brothers" and Cowsill singing "Wild Honey" sometimes.
4. Talk isn't discussion.
5. If Mike Love were the head of ISIS, somehow it would still be Melinda's fault. Possibly Joe Thomas' for living in Chicago... the bastard!

[bossaroo]

I know a lot of thought went into those records but the "art" had already been created decades ago. Same with BWPS. Straight covers no, but giving Disney and Gershwin the Pet Sounds treatment is far from the avant-garde genius people like to pretend is what happens every time Brian walks into a recording studio.

not true. two songs from Gershwin were brand-new "collaborations" and that was a pretty big deal.
same with BWPS. new lyrics were written and several songs were finally completed, not to mention the whole project was finally given cohesion and released! f*cking SMiLE!!! 37 YEARS LATER!!!!! but you're right. no big deal.

My beef is that these people that can't stand Mike Love are incapable of keeping their gripes relevant to certain things Mike does. It always goes back to this crap about money, greed, he killed Smile, ect. and it's a false charge. It's a tiresome charge. And it's why guys like Pinder or myself are compelled to call it for the crap it is.

these people? I'm assuming that includes me, though I never used the word greed. I actually think he is more greedy of the spotlight and the recognition than the money. I also never said Mike killed SMiLE. so I guess I can call some crap too.

Carl and Al were there for Summer in Paradise and all of those late 80's 90's concerts that chugged along with cheerleaders onstage too. No one ever seems to remember that while Brian was either at home doing nothing or being brainwashed by Landy the rest of the BOYS were all about business as usual ..... not just Mike.

Carl and Al were there, it's true but it's pretty obvious who was steering the ship in the late 80s or so. Carl is gone now and Al has regained his integrity, but Mike and Bruce keep chugging on.

your statement about Brian being "home doing nothing" is rather cruel and uncalled for. or were you peeking in his windows?

Furthermore, I never liked that Mike went on as the Beach Boys after Carl died but THAT IS WHAT MIKE AND BRIAN AGREED TO like it or not. Years later the unlikely C50 was a dream come true and TWGMTR a huge bonus.  To have expected more beyond that was foolish given the history of this band, these individuals, and their management.

I never liked it either. at least we agree on something.
Mike and Brian may have agreed to Mike continuing as the Beach Boys after Carl's passing, but that obviously changed when C50 happened. BRIAN DID NOT AGREE with the way things ended. like it or not

and I think most everyone would have expected a follow-up to TWGMTR, considering it got great reviews and was their highest-charting album of all-time.

[clack]

Some Clintonesque prevarications ("it depends on what your definition of 'is' is") Mike has going on here.  Maybe he's making some distinction between "discussion" and "talks"?

If so, an interview is not a court of law. He should just concentrate on saying what he has to say as clearly as he can.

[drbeachboy]

So to recap:

1. Mike gives a REALLY stupid interview.
2. Somehow it's Melinda's fault.
3. Brian Wilson does the same show as Mike Love and all of those tours playing entire albums or presenting new material somehow never happened because of "Pisces Brothers" and Cowsill singing "Wild Honey" sometimes.
4. Talk isn't discussion.
5. If Mike Love were the head of ISIS, somehow it would still be Melinda's fault.

You should go into politics. You twist stuff into whatever point you want to get across. With point 3, nobody was really talking about tours 10 plus years ago. Let's keep this to fairly recent goings on.

[ontor pertawst]

Right. I'm the one twisting stuff. Like talk not being discussion?

Face it, Mike gave a HORRENDOUS interview. David Beard framed it badly. All this distraction isn't going to make that come up smelling like roses.

[Jim V.]

Carl and Al were there for Summer in Paradise and all of those late 80's 90's concerts that chugged along with cheerleaders onstage too. No one ever seems to remember that while Brian was either at home doing nothing or being brainwashed by Landy the rest of the BOYS were all about business as usual ..... not just Mike.

Brian was at home doing nothing? At least during the Landy years, he was actually doing quite a bit of recording. However, only one album got released (the '88 solo debut). And keep in mind this was a guy who was being severely mistreated for deep psychological issues. And how you just throw out "him being brainwashed by Landy," what's that supposed to mean? I don't think Brian wanted to be mistreated by his doctor, so why are you throwing that out there offhand. It's not really a situation that should be joked about.

And I don't know where you've been, but Carl has gotten a whole lot of flak for being part of the shitshow that was the '90s Beach Boys. He has repeatedly gotten thrashed for participating in the Summer In Paradise disaster, yet calling an end to the mid '90s reunion sessions with Brian. However, he died in 1998 and also hasn't spent a large part of the past 25 years suing Brian and making snarky comments every chance he gets.

And Al, well...yeah he does seem to have a good place among fans these days. Since he was the one protesting the ridiculous cheerleaders and the stale setlists, etc. people seem to forgive Al a little easier. Not to mention his advocacy of parts of the back catalogue that Mike for the most part avoids. However he did have a ridiculous ponytail and cheesed it up with the other three for a long while. So yeah.

[drbeachboy]

Right. I'm the one twisting stuff. Like talk not being discussion?

You should read yourself sometime.

[ontor pertawst]

It's a crap interview that makes Mike Love come off whiny and bitter... and it's full of contradictions to his other interviews. You can attack me all you want with your utterly ineffectual distractions, but Mr. Love is the one that sh*t the bed.

He got what he wanted and doesn't want to deal with the fallout, thinks he can spin reality into something that shows him a better light. He's wrong. People will continue to point it out. I hope he enjoys his touring and living off the name that BW and AJ helped build, but internet comments are NOT going to be positive about the man for years to come. You guys have been defending him so long this all seems normal to you, but I assure you that Mike Love defenders can be counted on what, two hands? Maybe three? Nobody else is going to believe that talk isn't discussion or that Mike Love didn't end C50 in the most embarrassing, idiotic way possible.

[SMiLE Brian]

AGD, Cam Mott, Pinder, Paul JB, and others are the great wall of kokomo. Mike can do no wrong with them despite shitting on the BBs name everytime he uses it in M&B.

[the professor]

I agree.  I can't believe that Mike would not have/could not have grabbed Brian and planned a second album if he wanted to and that they could have worked it out. We all compromise in life, and if some elements of production and writing were not to Mike's liking, the notion of a "BB album" could have overridden all particular concerns if he wanted to make it happen. BW, AJ, DM were up for it big time, and BJ loves to sing. I feel Mike's pain, but he could have made sure it happened if he wanted to. Ego and pride, in a very non-TM way, have nagged him.

It's a crap interview that makes Mike Love come off  whiny, bitter, and full of contradictions to his other interviews. You can attack me all you want with your utterly ineffectual distractions, but Mr. Love is the one that sh*t the bed.

[CenturyDeprived]

AGD, Cam Mott, Pinder, Paul JB, and others are the great wall of kokomo. Mike can do no wrong with them despite shitting on the BBs name everytime he uses it in M&B.

Mike can always come up with a new car song (who doesn't love Mike singing on car songs, right?) called Skid Marks, and the title can have a dual meaning too. 

[drbeachboy]

It's a crap interview that makes Mike Love come off  whiny, bitter, and full of contradictions to his other interviews. You can attack me all you want with your utterly ineffectual distractions, but Mr. Love is the one that sh*t the bed.

He got what he wanted and doesn't want to deal with the fallout, thinks he can spin reality into something that shows him a better light. He's wrong. People will continue to point it out. I hope he enjoys his touring and living off the name that BW and AJ helped build, but internet comments are NOT going to be positive about the man for years to come. You guys have been defending him so long this all seems normal to you, but I assure you that Mike Love defenders can be counted on what, two hands? Maybe three? Nobody else is going to believe that talk isn't discussion or that Mike Love didn't end C50 in the most embarrassing, idiotic way possible.

Believe me, we are the only ones that care. I don't let it affect me one bit. It is their business and no amount of my caring one way or another makes a bit of difference. I hate arguing with folks over this stuff. Even Mike & Brian don't seem to get that bothered by it all.