interesting article: "Mike Love states his case"

[Lee Marshall]

"Mike reclaiming his rightful spot as an important, vital part of the songwriting process within the band"

Rightful?

Please.

Rightful!!!.  Gawd.  I'm going to be sick.
-------------------------------------------------------
sh*t on a stick!!!  I was ALL about leaving THIS thread alone...a piece of history...a thing of the past...old news...a bullshit field for farmers needing some manure..  But NO!!!  Roped in like a ass. 

[CenturyDeprived]

Mama Says...

The answer is simple. For ONE album Mike and Brian pulled a "Lennon & McCartney" or a "Jagger & Richards". Every original song would be a "Wilson & Love" collaboration, even if it wasn't. Or if the lyrics weren't written by someone else like Parks or Asher.

"Mama Says" was written solely by Brian, but it was credited to both. No big deal. Brian didn't mind sharing the credits for this little dittie and Mike didn't really make big bucks from this track alone.

End of story.  

That might well be true, actually.

Nobody has ever been able to appropriately explain the reasoning behind the "by Brian and Mike" credit on the "Gettin' Hungry" single, and this would seem to run tandem to that.

Mike reclaiming his rightful spot as an important, vital part of the songwriting process within the band, at a point when Brian wasn't emotionally vulnerable or feeling defeated in the slightest, and whose emotional state surely played no factor in this happening.

Well I thought they were just having a good time writing songs together for the next R'N'B influenced Beach Boys' album....

But if it's necessary for you - with no evidence in contemporary or more recent interviews - to fantasize about Mike forcing his way and Brian feeling defeated and bending over... Ok. But it's just weird.

Actually, the just plain weird part involves the juxtaposition of Mike being sidelined for two albums (because Brian's vision seemed to have been in conflict with Mike's, unless I'm missing something here), and then immediately thereafter having Mike return not just as Brian's main (and quite nearly sole) collaborator, but for unprecedented incidents such as (probable) overcrediting Mike (Mama Says) as well as going out of the way to state Mike's prominence with the "Brian and Mike" single credit. To me, that credit feels as much a nail in the coffin of the statement of intent I think the "Brian Wilson" Caroline, No single credit was laced with, as a '66 release of the song Surf's Up would have been a nail in the coffin to their cheesy surfin' image. But, ya know, that's just me.

As far as evidence, well, there's circumstantial evidence when Brian spoke on "Beautiful Dreamer" with emotion in his voice, mentioning Mike as part of why SMiLE fizzled... for the guy who seemed to have hurt Brian's feelings in a big way, in late '66/early '67, to be not just "back", but "B-A-C-K" in the collaborator's seat such a big, more prominently-than-ever-before-in-the-history-of-the-band type of way, in a matter of mere months... well, the conclusion/hypothesis that I've drawn seems to have some logic behind it, IMHO. None of us know all the facts, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss these ideas outright as being Flat Earth Society type stuff, Dancing Bear. We all can make educated guesses based on the evidence we've seen, and while I'm more than willing to admit that I may be totally wrong, I think you should on the flipside admit that there *might* be some truth to it also.

That said, I dig Wild Honey. I'm glad it exists, and I want a proper stereo remix to be released. But I do think its main author was defeated and conflicted when it was written, and some weird defeatist amends were being made. And I also think that absent the transparency of the internet, and absent a supportive wife that Melinda is, that a similar situation could have directly followed TWGMTR.

[CenturyDeprived]

"Mike reclaiming his rightful spot as an important, vital part of the songwriting process within the band"

Rightful?

Please.

Rightful!!!.  Gawd.  I'm going to be sick.

I don't for a moment imagine that Mike ever thought anything different, either then or now.

[Lee Marshall]

Oh gawd!!!  Im back in this wearing at the very MINIMUM---neck deep 'hip-waders'.

Smile...Sorry...SMiLE was art.  Smiley Smile [by immediate comparison] was POO.  Brian and Van Dyke?  THAT was actual art.  Brian and Mike?  You guessed it. Pure POO.  Who's the odd man out here?  M.POO L.  My career as a fair and balanced human is over.  I've been exposed.  [and I still have my pants on.]

Rightful.  Gawd!!!!!!!  I need some rope.

sh*t!!!

Rightful?  And YOU'RE  *H E R E* 

[Lee Marshall]

Cent Dep???  Did you write that?  "Rightful?  That was YOU???  Man.  We need to go have a drink together buddy.   We'll bring Mike.  He needs to learn a coupla things.

[CenturyDeprived]

Cent Dep???  Did you write that?  "Rightful?  That was YOU???  Man.  We need to go have a drink together buddy.   We'll bring Mike.  He needs to learn a coupla things.

 

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Mama Says...

The answer is simple. For ONE album Mike and Brian pulled a "Lennon & McCartney" or a "Jagger & Richards". Every original song would be a "Wilson & Love" collaboration, even if it wasn't. Or if the lyrics weren't written by someone else like Parks or Asher.

"Mama Says" was written solely by Brian, but it was credited to both. No big deal. Brian didn't mind sharing the credits for this little dittie and Mike didn't really make big bucks from this track alone.

End of story.  

That might well be true, actually.

Nobody has ever been able to appropriately explain the reasoning behind the "by Brian and Mike" credit on the "Gettin' Hungry" single, and this would seem to run tandem to that.

Mike reclaiming his rightful spot as an important, vital part of the songwriting process within the band, at a point when Brian wasn't emotionally vulnerable or feeling defeated in the slightest, and whose emotional state surely played no factor in this happening.

Well I thought they were just having a good time writing songs together for the next R'N'B influenced Beach Boys' album....

But if it's necessary for you - with no evidence in contemporary or more recent interviews - to fantasize about Mike forcing his way and Brian feeling defeated and bending over... Ok. But it's just weird.

Actually, the just plain weird part involves the juxtaposition of Mike being sidelined for two albums (because Brian's vision seemed to have been in conflict with Mike's, unless I'm missing something here), and then immediately thereafter having Mike return not just as Brian's main (and quite nearly sole) collaborator, but for unprecedented incidents such as (probable) overcrediting Mike (Mama Says) as well as going out of the way to state Mike's prominence with the "Brian and Mike" single credit. To me, that credit feels as much a nail in the coffin of the statement of intent I think the "Brian Wilson" Caroline, No single credit was laced with, as a '66 release of the song Surf's Up would have been a nail in the coffin to their cheesy surfin' image. But, ya know, that's just me.

As far as evidence, well, there's circumstantial evidence when Brian spoke on "Beautiful Dreamer" with emotion in his voice, mentioning Mike as part of why SMiLE fizzled... for the guy who seemed to have hurt Brian's feelings in a big way, in late '66/early '67, to be not just "back", but "B-A-C-K" in the collaborator's seat such a big, more prominently-than-ever-before-in-the-history-of-the-band type of way, in a matter of mere months... well, the conclusion/hypothesis that I've drawn seems to have some logic behind it, IMHO. None of us know all the facts, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss these ideas outright as being Flat Earth Society type stuff, Dancing Bear. We all can make educated guesses based on the evidence we've seen, and while I'm more than willing to admit that I may be totally wrong, I think you should on the flipside admit that there *might* be some truth to it also.

That said, I dig Wild Honey. I'm glad it exists, and I want a proper stereo remix to be released. But I do think its main author was defeated and conflicted when it was written, and some weird defeatist amends were being made. And I also think that absent the transparency of the internet, and absent a supportive wife that Melinda is, that a similar situation could have directly followed TWGMTR.

Very well stated, sir.

All I have to add is I think it's ironic that the Veggies accusation came from a thread in which the very subject matter is how faulty the official credits list has been through the band's history. Far more likely neither Brian nor VDP cared enough about a little throwaway chant to raise a fuss about Mike's erroneous credit than Mike "I-have-to-remind-everyone-I-wrote-GV&Kokomo-every-chance-I-get" Love to not put up a fight to get his name on Vega-Tables. Even if he didn't press it in the lawsuit because the version containing the chorus wasn't released at the time, surely he'd bring it up--loudly and often--after BWPS and TSS. He was already suing Brian in '04, why not add that on? He wrote an essay for TSS, why not mention that anecdote to play up his importance? It would go against his whole character to not bring it up if he really did write a part of a major SMiLE song.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well, we are way off topic now but for what it is worth some one who claimed to BE havin' the songwriting breakdown for some of the Wild Honey...

I see what you did there... 

[Dancing Bear]

Mama Says...

The answer is simple. For ONE album Mike and Brian pulled a "Lennon & McCartney" or a "Jagger & Richards". Every original song would be a "Wilson & Love" collaboration, even if it wasn't. Or if the lyrics weren't written by someone else like Parks or Asher.

"Mama Says" was written solely by Brian, but it was credited to both. No big deal. Brian didn't mind sharing the credits for this little dittie and Mike didn't really make big bucks from this track alone.

End of story.  

That might well be true, actually.

Nobody has ever been able to appropriately explain the reasoning behind the "by Brian and Mike" credit on the "Gettin' Hungry" single, and this would seem to run tandem to that.

Mike reclaiming his rightful spot as an important, vital part of the songwriting process within the band, at a point when Brian wasn't emotionally vulnerable or feeling defeated in the slightest, and whose emotional state surely played no factor in this happening.

Well I thought they were just having a good time writing songs together for the next R'N'B influenced Beach Boys' album....

But if it's necessary for you - with no evidence in contemporary or more recent interviews - to fantasize about Mike forcing his way and Brian feeling defeated and bending over... Ok. But it's just weird.

Actually, the just plain weird part involves the juxtaposition of Mike being sidelined for two albums (because Brian's vision seemed to have been in conflict with Mike's, unless I'm missing something here), and then immediately thereafter having Mike return not just as Brian's main (and quite nearly sole) collaborator, but for unprecedented incidents such as (probable) overcrediting Mike (Mama Says) as well as going out of the way to state Mike's prominence with the "Brian and Mike" single credit. To me, that credit feels as much a nail in the coffin of the statement of intent I think the "Brian Wilson" Caroline, No single credit was laced with, as a '66 release of the song Surf's Up would have been a nail in the coffin to their cheesy surfin' image. But, ya know, that's just me.

As far as evidence, well, there's circumstantial evidence when Brian spoke on "Beautiful Dreamer" with emotion in his voice, mentioning Mike as part of why SMiLE fizzled... for the guy who seemed to have hurt Brian's feelings in a big way, in late '66/early '67, to be not just "back", but "B-A-C-K" in the collaborator's seat such a big, more prominently-than-ever-before-in-the-history-of-the-band type of way, in a matter of mere months... well, the conclusion/hypothesis that I've drawn seems to have some logic behind it, IMHO. None of us know all the facts, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss these ideas outright as being Flat Earth Society type stuff, Dancing Bear. We all can make educated guesses based on the evidence we've seen, and while I'm more than willing to admit that I may be totally wrong, I think you should on the flipside admit that there *might* be some truth to it also.

That said, I dig Wild Honey. I'm glad it exists, and I want a proper stereo remix to be released. But I do think its main author was defeated and conflicted when it was written, and some weird defeatist amends were being made. And I also think that absent the transparency of the internet, and absent a supportive wife that Melinda is, that a similar situation could have directly followed TWGMTR.

Well, once in the late 90s Brian and Joe Thomas were such great pals that Brian bought another house in Chicago. Then things didn't go so well and Joe was sued by Brian's wife. Now they're best pals again recording together their seconds CD in a row.

Once in '66 Van Dyke Parks was Brian's perfect collaborator, but then things didn't go so well and Van Dyke took his time off to record his own solo album. They hung out a bit in the 70s before Landy, then nothing much happened till they became best pals again circa BWPS. After TLOS things didn't go so well and now they're estranged, with Van Dyke writing sarcastic tweets about their relationship.

Are you sure you want to look at Brian's relationship with friends / collaborators in a logical way? ("Oh well things went sour during Smile then there's no way Brian would want to write again with Mike 9 months after").   

[Cam Mott]

Well, we are way off topic now but for what it is worth some one who claimed to BE havin' the songwriting breakdown for some of the Wild Honey...

I see what you did there... 

Yeah, I don't know why I keep doing that on stuff he posted publicly. It was Brad Elliott on PSML on Feb. 18, 2000. I know his promise keeping reputation but as far as I know he is still the leading published BB authority on these matters.

[Cam Mott]

All I have to add is I think it's ironic that the Veggies accusation came from a thread in which the very subject matter is how faulty the official credits list has been through the band's history. Far more likely neither Brian nor VDP cared enough about a little throwaway chant to raise a fuss about Mike's erroneous credit than Mike "I-have-to-remind-everyone-I-wrote-GV&Kokomo-every-chance-I-get" Love to not put up a fight to get his name on Vega-Tables. Even if he didn't press it in the lawsuit because the version containing the chorus wasn't released at the time, surely he'd bring it up--loudly and often--after BWPS and TSS. He was already suing Brian in '04, why not add that on? He wrote an essay for TSS, why not mention that anecdote to play up his importance? It would go against his whole character to not bring it up if he really did write a part of a major SMiLE song.

Mike has always had a co-credit for Mama Says since 1967. According to Brad Elliott according to the paperwork of Mama Says the music was Brian's and the lyrics were Brian and Mike's. We agree it is weird that people think a co-author in 1966/7 might have gotten undue or over-credit.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Mike has always had a co-credit for Mama Says since 1967.

Yes but as, I think, Wirestone pointed out, Mike has never been credited nor does he appear on the copyright for any version of Vega-tables that includes Mama Says.

[Please delete my account]

I still say if Mama really did Say those things then Audree should have had the royalties.

[phirnis]

Mike has always had a co-credit for Mama Says since 1967.

Yes but as, I think, Wirestone pointed out, Mike has never been credited nor does he appear on the copyright for any version of Vega-tables that includes Mama Says.

Easy solution, he wrote the "poof" part. I'm pretty sure someone must've made this joke before.

[Cam Mott]

Mike has always had a co-credit for Mama Says since 1967.

Yes but as, I think, Wirestone pointed out, Mike has never been credited nor does he appear on the copyright for any version of Vega-tables that includes Mama Says.

And isn't it about time that someone correct those in light of Mike being the established co-author of that lyric of the song since 1967. Unless Mike co-authored the music...but still.

 On the other hand, why is VDP not the co-author of record if he was the co-author of that "Mama Says" lyric?

[Micha]

Mike has always had a co-credit for Mama Says since 1967.

Yes but as, I think, Wirestone pointed out, Mike has never been credited nor does he appear on the copyright for any version of Vega-tables that includes Mama Says.

And isn't it about time that someone correct those in light of Mike being the established co-author of that lyric of the song since 1967. Unless Mike co-authored the music...but still.

 On the other hand, why is VDP not the co-author of record if he was the co-author of that "Mama Says" lyric?

Why is VDP sometimes credited for Wind Chimes and sometimes not?

Why do we expect logic behind the credits?

[Cam Mott]

Mike has always had a co-credit for Mama Says since 1967.

Yes but as, I think, Wirestone pointed out, Mike has never been credited nor does he appear on the copyright for any version of Vega-tables that includes Mama Says.

And isn't it about time that someone correct those in light of Mike being the established co-author of that lyric of the song since 1967. Unless Mike co-authored the music...but still.

 On the other hand, why is VDP not the co-author of record if he was the co-author of that "Mama Says" lyric?

Why is VDP sometimes credited for Wind Chimes and sometimes not?

Why do we expect logic behind the credits?

We don't except that so far the only thing close to logic is that co-authors didn't get unduly credited for something they didn't write.

[Cam Mott]

Also, I didn't read far enough. FWIIW, Brad also said back in the day that:

"Good Vibrations -- Brian 75%, Mike 25%
lyrics: Brian 50%, Mike 50%

Gettin Hungry -- Brian 80%, Mike 20%
lyrics: Brian 60%, Mike: 40%"

and

"Two of the three Wilson-Parks collaborations (Heroes & Villains, Cabinessence) are 50/50 splits, while the third (Vegetables) is 60% Brian, 40% Parks."

So I guess that copyright claims VDP didn't write all of the lyrics of the released version which might be explained by the "cornucopia" version.

Can copies of these documents be obtained through the copyright office?

[CenturyDeprived]

Mama Says...

The answer is simple. For ONE album Mike and Brian pulled a "Lennon & McCartney" or a "Jagger & Richards". Every original song would be a "Wilson & Love" collaboration, even if it wasn't. Or if the lyrics weren't written by someone else like Parks or Asher.

"Mama Says" was written solely by Brian, but it was credited to both. No big deal. Brian didn't mind sharing the credits for this little dittie and Mike didn't really make big bucks from this track alone.

End of story.  

That might well be true, actually.

Nobody has ever been able to appropriately explain the reasoning behind the "by Brian and Mike" credit on the "Gettin' Hungry" single, and this would seem to run tandem to that.

Mike reclaiming his rightful spot as an important, vital part of the songwriting process within the band, at a point when Brian wasn't emotionally vulnerable or feeling defeated in the slightest, and whose emotional state surely played no factor in this happening.

Well I thought they were just having a good time writing songs together for the next R'N'B influenced Beach Boys' album....

But if it's necessary for you - with no evidence in contemporary or more recent interviews - to fantasize about Mike forcing his way and Brian feeling defeated and bending over... Ok. But it's just weird.

Actually, the just plain weird part involves the juxtaposition of Mike being sidelined for two albums (because Brian's vision seemed to have been in conflict with Mike's, unless I'm missing something here), and then immediately thereafter having Mike return not just as Brian's main (and quite nearly sole) collaborator, but for unprecedented incidents such as (probable) overcrediting Mike (Mama Says) as well as going out of the way to state Mike's prominence with the "Brian and Mike" single credit. To me, that credit feels as much a nail in the coffin of the statement of intent I think the "Brian Wilson" Caroline, No single credit was laced with, as a '66 release of the song Surf's Up would have been a nail in the coffin to their cheesy surfin' image. But, ya know, that's just me.

As far as evidence, well, there's circumstantial evidence when Brian spoke on "Beautiful Dreamer" with emotion in his voice, mentioning Mike as part of why SMiLE fizzled... for the guy who seemed to have hurt Brian's feelings in a big way, in late '66/early '67, to be not just "back", but "B-A-C-K" in the collaborator's seat such a big, more prominently-than-ever-before-in-the-history-of-the-band type of way, in a matter of mere months... well, the conclusion/hypothesis that I've drawn seems to have some logic behind it, IMHO. None of us know all the facts, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss these ideas outright as being Flat Earth Society type stuff, Dancing Bear. We all can make educated guesses based on the evidence we've seen, and while I'm more than willing to admit that I may be totally wrong, I think you should on the flipside admit that there *might* be some truth to it also.

That said, I dig Wild Honey. I'm glad it exists, and I want a proper stereo remix to be released. But I do think its main author was defeated and conflicted when it was written, and some weird defeatist amends were being made. And I also think that absent the transparency of the internet, and absent a supportive wife that Melinda is, that a similar situation could have directly followed TWGMTR.

Well, once in the late 90s Brian and Joe Thomas were such great pals that Brian bought another house in Chicago. Then things didn't go so well and Joe was sued by Brian's wife. Now they're best pals again recording together their seconds CD in a row.

Once in '66 Van Dyke Parks was Brian's perfect collaborator, but then things didn't go so well and Van Dyke took his time off to record his own solo album. They hung out a bit in the 70s before Landy, then nothing much happened till they became best pals again circa BWPS. After TLOS things didn't go so well and now they're estranged, with Van Dyke writing sarcastic tweets about their relationship.

Are you sure you want to look at Brian's relationship with friends / collaborators in a logical way? ("Oh well things went sour during Smile then there's no way Brian would want to write again with Mike 9 months after").  

Fair enough, Dancing Bear. But what you're saying is also not much of an argument in outright dispelling my theories... being as Brian willingly (?) musically collaborated with both Murry in '69, and Landy for nearly a decade. Not comparing Mike to those two, but I'm just saying that while yes, Brian's choices/relationships with friends/collaborators will always remain questionable and his own reasons/justifications subject to debate/speculation, it's also essentially an established fact based on the Murry/Landy examples that Brian still will work with people who either have deeply hurt him and/or who have been able to push his buttons in ways which he has a hard time saying "no" to. I think Brian was/is afraid to say "no" directly to Mike's face, and will always be.

[Dancing Bear]

Mama Says...

The answer is simple. For ONE album Mike and Brian pulled a "Lennon & McCartney" or a "Jagger & Richards". Every original song would be a "Wilson & Love" collaboration, even if it wasn't. Or if the lyrics weren't written by someone else like Parks or Asher.

"Mama Says" was written solely by Brian, but it was credited to both. No big deal. Brian didn't mind sharing the credits for this little dittie and Mike didn't really make big bucks from this track alone.

End of story.  

That might well be true, actually.

Nobody has ever been able to appropriately explain the reasoning behind the "by Brian and Mike" credit on the "Gettin' Hungry" single, and this would seem to run tandem to that.

Mike reclaiming his rightful spot as an important, vital part of the songwriting process within the band, at a point when Brian wasn't emotionally vulnerable or feeling defeated in the slightest, and whose emotional state surely played no factor in this happening.

Well I thought they were just having a good time writing songs together for the next R'N'B influenced Beach Boys' album....

But if it's necessary for you - with no evidence in contemporary or more recent interviews - to fantasize about Mike forcing his way and Brian feeling defeated and bending over... Ok. But it's just weird.

Actually, the just plain weird part involves the juxtaposition of Mike being sidelined for two albums (because Brian's vision seemed to have been in conflict with Mike's, unless I'm missing something here), and then immediately thereafter having Mike return not just as Brian's main (and quite nearly sole) collaborator, but for unprecedented incidents such as (probable) overcrediting Mike (Mama Says) as well as going out of the way to state Mike's prominence with the "Brian and Mike" single credit. To me, that credit feels as much a nail in the coffin of the statement of intent I think the "Brian Wilson" Caroline, No single credit was laced with, as a '66 release of the song Surf's Up would have been a nail in the coffin to their cheesy surfin' image. But, ya know, that's just me.

As far as evidence, well, there's circumstantial evidence when Brian spoke on "Beautiful Dreamer" with emotion in his voice, mentioning Mike as part of why SMiLE fizzled... for the guy who seemed to have hurt Brian's feelings in a big way, in late '66/early '67, to be not just "back", but "B-A-C-K" in the collaborator's seat such a big, more prominently-than-ever-before-in-the-history-of-the-band type of way, in a matter of mere months... well, the conclusion/hypothesis that I've drawn seems to have some logic behind it, IMHO. None of us know all the facts, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss these ideas outright as being Flat Earth Society type stuff, Dancing Bear. We all can make educated guesses based on the evidence we've seen, and while I'm more than willing to admit that I may be totally wrong, I think you should on the flipside admit that there *might* be some truth to it also.

That said, I dig Wild Honey. I'm glad it exists, and I want a proper stereo remix to be released. But I do think its main author was defeated and conflicted when it was written, and some weird defeatist amends were being made. And I also think that absent the transparency of the internet, and absent a supportive wife that Melinda is, that a similar situation could have directly followed TWGMTR.

Well, once in the late 90s Brian and Joe Thomas were such great pals that Brian bought another house in Chicago. Then things didn't go so well and Joe was sued by Brian's wife. Now they're best pals again recording together their seconds CD in a row.

Once in '66 Van Dyke Parks was Brian's perfect collaborator, but then things didn't go so well and Van Dyke took his time off to record his own solo album. They hung out a bit in the 70s before Landy, then nothing much happened till they became best pals again circa BWPS. After TLOS things didn't go so well and now they're estranged, with Van Dyke writing sarcastic tweets about their relationship.

Are you sure you want to look at Brian's relationship with friends / collaborators in a logical way? ("Oh well things went sour during Smile then there's no way Brian would want to write again with Mike 9 months after").  

Fair enough, Dancing Bear. But what you're saying is also not much of an argument in outright dispelling my theories... being as Brian willingly (?) musically collaborated with both Murry in '69, and Landy for nearly a decade. Not comparing Mike to those two, but I'm just saying that while yes, Brian's choices/relationships with friends/collaborators will always remain questionable and his own reasons/justifications subject to debate/speculation, it's also essentially an established fact based on the Murry/Landy examples that Brian still will work with people who either have deeply hurt him and/or who have been able to push his buttons in ways which he has a hard time saying "no" to. I think Brian was/is afraid to say "no" directly to Mike's face, and will always be.

Fair enough, it's not impossible. Just saying that between Wild Honey and Friends, by all accounts, Brian was having a good time working with the group. There's enough conflict through 53 years, do we need to find more between the lines?

[Cam Mott]

"I'm disappointed that Mike would now say that the release was done at the request of my representative. The first I heard about it was at the Grammy Museum event. We hadn't even discussed as a band what we were going to do with all the offers that were coming in for more 50th shows." Brian Wilson LA Times Oct 9 2012

For those who struggled with "talk" vs "discussion".

[Cam Mott]

So Brian and Mike agree there was talk without discussion within the group. In case anyone didn't get it yet. Sooooooo....

[onkster]

VDP once told me his name was indeed on a SMiLE song he had nothing to do with--and I'm pretty sure it was "Wind Chimes".

He also told me that he was definitely NOT the man behind the lyrics to "He Gives Speeches".

[Cam Mott]

VDP once told me his name was indeed on a SMiLE song he had nothing to do with--and I'm pretty sure it was "Wind Chimes".

He also told me that he was definitely NOT the man behind the lyrics to "He Gives Speeches".

Wasn't it Wonderful that had the come-and-go credit?

[Cam Mott]

VDP once told me his name was indeed on a SMiLE song he had nothing to do with--and I'm pretty sure it was "Wind Chimes".

He also told me that he was definitely NOT the man behind the lyrics to "He Gives Speeches".

Was VDP ever credited on Windchimes? He wasn't in 1967 was he?