Fall Tour

[Andrew G. Doe]

You've been fine to nitpick every stupid move made by Brian's team recently, but you've haven't pointed out Mike's equally stupid things.

Er, actually, I did - for something like 35-odd years, in fanzines, the book and since 1998, on the internet. HOF speech, anyone ?

[Jim V.]

You've been fine to nitpick every stupid move made by Brian's team recently, but you've haven't pointed out Mike's equally stupid things.

Er, actually, I did - for something like 35-odd years, in fanzines, the book and since 1998, on the internet. HOF speech, anyone ?

I'm talking lately. You will tsk, tsk things like the casting call for the taping of Brian's hopefully soon-to-be-released special for trying to get good looking people or whatever, but I don't hear you protesting that same sexism, ageism, whateverism thing when Mike and co. are bringin' up babes to play guitar during the encore or whatever. For the record, I'm waiting for Scott Totten to pick a mustachioed grump out of the crowd instead of the usual buxom blonde.

And as I brought up earlier, you thought Brian's album was gonna be a disaster because of the long (and supposedly troubled) gestation period. However, you've have nothing to say about the fact that Mike has been teasing an album that supposedly won't come out for two years. Which is really odd to me. Why announce a new album two years ahead. Is it that even you don't take whatever Mike is coming out with half as serious as Brian's new album? Because we know Mike's "album" will likely never come out, and if it does it will contain a bunch of re-recordings of previously released Beach Boys songs and also of course another version of "Brian's Back," so in interviews Mike can say "I'm so glad Brian is out there working again, and I'm glad his latest album is doing decently, but if he just got together with me to write, we could do it again and conjure up some good vibrations and we could make huge hits again!"

Now hey, if you criticize the DX7 '80s keyboard sounds and the re-recording of "Be True to Your School" on Mike's "new album" then I'll eat my words.  But I just know that if Brian's team started teasing a new album slated for 2017 today, you'd likely say they were idiots for even announcing such a thing yet.

[Micha]

sweetdudejim, you worry about things I can't understand how they occupy your mind. I don't see why one should write down such lengthy thoughts about what just one board poster thinks and says and what his motifs might be. It seems a bit obsessive in a way. I don't say this to put you down, I'm just kind of baffled and wanted to respectfully express the impression your postings made on me.

[Mike's Beard]

At the risk of sounding like I'm kissing the guy's butt, Andrew's words carry more weight than the average SS poster.

[Jim V.]

sweetdudejim, you worry about things I can't understand how they occupy your mind. I don't see why one should write down such lengthy thoughts about what just one board poster thinks and says and what his motifs might be. It seems a bit obsessive in a way. I don't say this to put you down, I'm just kind of baffled and wanted to respectfully express the impression your postings made on me.

That's fine. My main problem is when people claim to be fair and then obviously are not. I just notice things. There certain posters I look forward to reading opinions from on here (Andrew, Wirestone, guitarfool, Ray Lawlor, ontor pertwast) and I was disappointed that what seemed to be a straight shooting board member seems to instead be "cheering for one team over the other" which I just didn't expect, and I wanted to point out. Should I maybe have done it via PM, probably. But whatever. I just think Brian and his team have taken a bit of sh*t from posters here who I'd expect better from. So I pointed it out. If that's obsessive, so be it. To me, it's just posting and virtually interacting with many of the posters around here for around ten years or so, and so obviously one would have opinions on what they see as unfair (or at least unbalanced) criticism coming from somebody who is a respected name in our circles. I'll say right now, I expect better and more nuanced opinions from Stebbins, Doe, Edelson, Wirestone, etc) and I just wanna point out inconsistencies so newer fans don't take biased talk as gospel.

I do think it is meant to be a put down, but that's okay. It's the internet, and I don't hold it against you.

[Pretty Funky]

Just a question to someone who may know. Do venues cost less to hire in fall or winter compared to summer? Its probably like hotels, airlines etc when during high demand they can charge more.

If they are unsure how a Brian tour, backing a new album would sell, the financial risk may be reduced in the fall rather than a prime summer period.

[Micha]

I do think it is meant to be a put down,

It's a pity you feel that way because it is not the case. I didn't tell you my impression to belittle you, as you are not offensive. But I can't change your mind, and I don't hold that against you either.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

At the risk of sounding like I'm kissing the guy's butt, Andrew's words carry more weight than the average SS poster.

Wow! Could I have a field day rearranging that sentence! Add a word there, pull a word here.......but I promised I wouldn't.

[Mikie]

There certain posters I look forward to reading opinions from on here (Andrew, Wirestone, guitarfool, Ray Lawlor, ontor pertwast)

What?? How come I'm not in that group? Have I ever lied to you? You don't trust what I post? Do I seem uninformed? I may not post that much and may not be as long-winded as Guitarfool, but I never post B.S. just for the hell of it like some do here. 

Guess I'd better post more stuff here to get some respect. Use larger fonts (colored) underlined text with uppercase bold and italics in my posts to get attention....

[Lee Marshall]

There certain posters I look forward to reading opinions from on here (Andrew, Wirestone, guitarfool, Ray Lawlor, ontor pertwast)

What?? How come I'm not in that group? Have I ever lied to you? You don't trust what I post? Do I seem uninformed? I may not post that much and may not be as long-winded as Guitarfool, but I never post B.S. just for the hell of it like some do here. 

Guess I'd better post more stuff here to get some respect. Use larger fonts (colored) underlined text with uppercase bold and italics in my posts to get attention....

I'm the KING of b.s.

I respect you Mikie...but only for these last 10 years or so.  AND I respect Andrew as well...although I don't agree with him as often.  Anybody who puts as much time, effort and thought into 'it' as you guys deserves a tip of the hat. 

Then there's OSD.  I respect HIM too.  We're all experts.  Some of us just haven't revealed what we're experts 'at'.

Anyways...sdj...looks at stuff from his seat.  He sees what he sees.  Doesn't make it wrong.  I just know that over the LONG haul...Andrew G Doe knows what he's talkin' about.  When it comes to fact...he's a source to be counted on...NO question.  When it comes to opinions...his are merely as valid as anyone else's.  You know what they say about opinions...not unlike (fill in the 'hole') we all have one. 

We don't have to always agree with one another.  That'd be boring.  Half of the time I don't agree with myself.  The other half I'm still researching to see where I sit...on...where I sit.  I could go on but...I said it all in my very first sentence.  The rest is just 'filler'.

[Jim V.]

There certain posters I look forward to reading opinions from on here (Andrew, Wirestone, guitarfool, Ray Lawlor, ontor pertwast)

What?? How come I'm not in that group? Have I ever lied to you? You don't trust what I post? Do I seem uninformed? I may not post that much and may not be as long-winded as Guitarfool, but I never post B.S. just for the hell of it like some do here. 

Guess I'd better post more stuff here to get some respect. Use larger fonts (colored) underlined text with uppercase bold and italics in my posts to get attention....

You too Mikie. Absolutely look forward to your posts. You are one of those who I feel calls things as I see 'em. Admittedly, it was a late night post. So yeah, you shoulda been included Mikie!

[guitarfool2002]

There certain posters I look forward to reading opinions from on here (Andrew, Wirestone, guitarfool, Ray Lawlor, ontor pertwast)

What?? How come I'm not in that group? Have I ever lied to you? You don't trust what I post? Do I seem uninformed? I may not post that much and may not be as long-winded as Guitarfool, but I never post B.S. just for the hell of it like some do here. 

Guess I'd better post more stuff here to get some respect. Use larger fonts (colored) underlined text with uppercase bold and italics in my posts to get attention....

You too Mikie. Absolutely look forward to your posts. You are one of those who I feel calls things as I see 'em. Admittedly, it was a late night post. So yeah, you shoulda been included Mikie!

And I get called long-winded in a post about getting more respect, go figure. 

[Mikie]

There certain posters I look forward to reading opinions from on here (Andrew, Wirestone, guitarfool, Ray Lawlor, ontor pertwast)

What?? How come I'm not in that group? Have I ever lied to you? You don't trust what I post? Do I seem uninformed? I may not post that much and may not be as long-winded as Guitarfool, but I never post B.S. just for the hell of it like some do here. 

Guess I'd better post more stuff here to get some respect. Use larger fonts (colored) underlined text with uppercase bold and italics in my posts to get attention....

You too Mikie. Absolutely look forward to your posts. You are one of those who I feel calls things as I see 'em. Admittedly, it was a late night post. So yeah, you shoulda been included Mikie!

Thank you, Jim. Not sure I'm in the same league as AGD and Ray and Stebbins and Howie, but I feel much better now after your acknowledgement. 

Thanks to Add Some too - we go way back to the Cabinessence board where I probably pissed him off more than once. We live in Oldfartdom and are very proud of that.

And GF knows I'm just messin' with him. I just wish I had the time to express all my thoughts on the board like he has!

[Andrew G. Doe]

And as I brought up earlier, you thought Brian's album was gonna be a disaster because of the long (and supposedly troubled) gestation period.

Correct, because that was the, ah, feeling I was getting at the time. Maybe you've not noticed, but these last few months, I've changed my tune... oh, sorry, I'm not allowed to do that, am I ? My bad.

However, you've have nothing to say about the fact that Mike has been teasing an album that supposedly won't come out for two years. Which is really odd to me. Why announce a new album two years ahead. Is it that even you don't take whatever Mike is coming out with half as serious as Brian's new album?

Of course it won't be. It'll be most likely exactly what you'd imagine. And I'm pretty sure Mike's fine with that. Point is, he doesn't have to do this, but he is. Same with the book.

Because we know Mike's "album" will likely never come out...

Betcha $10 you're all wrong.  

...and if it does it will contain a bunch of re-recordings of previously released Beach Boys songs...

Wrong. They'll be re-recordings of Mike's unreleased material, last I heard.

Now hey, if you criticize the DX7 '80s keyboard sounds and the re-recording of "Be True to Your School" on Mike's "new album" then I'll eat my words.  

Damn right I will (although, as noted above, he won't be doing that): remakes many years after the event are never any damn good. F'rinstance, Kate Bush's Directors Cut album - waste of time, electricity and plastic. About the only such remake that didn't make me go "ugh" was "Carpet Crawlers 1999" on the Genesis 'hits' album.

[Andrew G. Doe]

We have enough KittyKats, Pinders, and OSDs. We don't need more.

As regards the last name noted, one is way too many.

[SMiLE Brian]

Rerecordings of unreleased songs is pretty lame. Does the man really have nothing left in the tank for songwriting at this point?


Or the truth that he is a crappy songwriter who can't hide behind BW's talents and production.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Rerecordings of unreleased songs is pretty lame.

Brian, of course, has never, ever done any such thing. 

[SMiLE Brian]

But you are avoiding my main point, Mike cannot write new songs even in two years. Its all retreads of half baked stuff from failed solo projects 1970s to 2000s.

And his voice isn't even a selling point either, its a nasal wine these days.


There is no market for dreck like Viggie.

[HeyJude]

But you are avoiding my main point, Mike cannot write new songs even in two years. Its all retreads of half baked stuff from failed solo projects 1970s to 2000s.

And his voice isn't even a selling point either, its a nasal wine these days.


There is no market for dreck like Viggie.

The only guy who seems to be able to continually get major solo deals is Brian. The rest of the guys don't seem very motivated to self-distribute their albums (nor apparently seek out little indie labels; a few of which I'm sure would have put out more Jardine albums and maybe even Love albums). Maybe they're just stuck in the old train of thought where you wait for a deal with Capitol or some other major.

If Capitol or some other major label had called Mike up and offered him a solo deal in, say, 2004, I have little doubt we would have seen some variation on that "Mike Love Not War" album finished and published.

Al has been the only one (in addition to Brian early on with the Roxy live album) to seek out essentially self-distributing stuff, which he did with the live Vegas album, the "PT Cruiser" single, and the first version of the "Postcard" album.

Mike Love has given numerous interviews where he indicates one of his major measuring sticks for success is sales, chart placement, and things of that nature; things that he will not likely achieve with a solo release (things that even Brian has limited success with). If he just wanted to put music out for the sake of getting it out, he would have done so long ago. I think VERY slowly it may have become more enticing to do stuff with their music online, so I think it's more likely for Mike to get something out on his own now than it was in, say, 2004.

[Andrew G. Doe]

But you are avoiding my main point, Mike cannot write new songs even in two years. Its all retreads of half baked stuff from failed solo projects 1970s to 2000s.

And his voice isn't even a selling point either, its a nasal wine these days.


There is no market for dreck like Viggie.

According to your very recent pronouncement, BWPS was "pretty lame", because it consisted in no small part of re-recordings of previously unreleased songs. Must be true, because you said it.

But... why am I wasting my time arguing the toss with mental midgets such as you and the other troll ? There's a new album due soon which has definite potential. I am cautiously enthused.

[alf wiedersehen]

Mike Love has given numerous interviews where he indicates one of his major measuring sticks for success is sales, chart placement, and things of that nature; things that he will not likely achieve with a solo release (things that even Brian has limited success with).

However, Brian has stated the same - that he thinks success equates to how well something does commercially. And, good on him, he continues to make music despite his albums hardly ever reaching the point where he would probably deem them a success. Although, to be fair, there are undoubtedly differences in their potential for album releases. Brian seems to easily be able to get a record deal, and he has a legacy and a name that sells albums. Mike, on the other hand, would probably face a great deal of trouble in trying to acquire a record deal, and how many people out there are looking to pick up an album by Mike Love? So, I can respect the fact that he's actually going to release an album, one that he probably knows has no chance of meeting his definition of "success". It's probably not gonna be good, though.

[SMiLE Brian]

But you are avoiding my main point, Mike cannot write new songs even in two years. Its all retreads of half baked stuff from failed solo projects 1970s to 2000s.

And his voice isn't even a selling point either, its a nasal wine these days.


There is no market for dreck like Viggie.

According to your very recent pronouncement, BWPS was "pretty lame", because it consisted in no small part of re-recordings of previously unreleased songs. Must be true, because you said it.

But... why am I wasting my time arguing the toss with mental midgets such as you and the other troll ? There's a new album due soon which has definite potential. I am cautiously enthused.

And how are you feeling about Mike's new album, resigned to defend it as King Kokodoe?

[Andrew G. Doe]

I think it's fair to say that some of Brian's solo releases are almost willfully uncommercial, and major props to him for that: I loved the way he essentially held Disney to ransom in order to get the excellent Gershwin album out.

[HeyJude]

Mike Love has given numerous interviews where he indicates one of his major measuring sticks for success is sales, chart placement, and things of that nature; things that he will not likely achieve with a solo release (things that even Brian has limited success with).

However, Brian has stated the same - that he thinks success equates to how well something does commercially. And, good on him, he continues to make music despite his albums hardly ever reaching the point where he would probably deem them a success. Although, to be fair, there are undoubtedly differences in their potential for album releases. Brian seems to easily be able to get a record deal, and he has a legacy and a name that sells albums. Mike, on the other hand, would probably face a great deal of trouble in trying to acquire a record deal, and how many people out there are looking to pick up an album by Mike Love? I can respect the fact that, despite that, he's actually going to release an album, one that he probably knows has no chance of meeting his definition of "success".

I think Brian and Mike's takes (as published in interviews, etc.) are not that much the same. Brian has indeed referenced many times wanting a "hit", and in that sense he still seems to have the same train of thought as he did in 1964, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But he has continued to make *numerous* solo albums and do other projects when very few have sold in huge numbers; when he hasn't had anything approaching a "hit" single, and only a few albums that you could debatably call minor hits.

Mike Love in a 2013 interview even minimized the #3 chart debut for TWGMTR, saying:

"Well, it debuted at No. 3. That’s not bad. But it didn’t stay up there very long. To have sustained success, like we’ve been known to do, you need a single that will chart and stay in the Top 20 or the Top 10 for three months. And that didn’t happen with this album."

Now, I think his opinion of the album was probably severely colored by his retrospective negative pronouncements about the reunion (songwriting, etc.). But beyond the fact that his statement shows that he's as out of touch with how "hit singles" work as Brian is, it shows that Mike has pretty freaking high bar for what constitutes success for an album.

He also continually cites not critics' reactions, but polls and chart placements (top "oldies radio" act, 1967 NME Poll Winners; beating out the Beatles, Kokomo getting to #1) as the seeming justification (or vindication) for the band and its music.

This isn't always a bad thing. Sometimes then a failure in sales and chart performance can lead to some introspective thinking. I'd like to believe that part of the reason Mike has pursued little music releases of new material since 1992 has something to do with the utter failure of the SIP album in 1992. It's unfortunate he seems to have more critical comments about the #3 TWGMTR album than the non-charting (as in failing to reach the Top 200) SIP album.

But I'm sure steady tickets sales for decades while the band continued to slip off the charts has informed his decision to tour incessantly and stay away from much new music releases.

[Les P]

I think it's fair to say that some of Brian's solo releases are almost willfully uncommercial, and major props to him for that: I loved the way he essentially held Disney to ransom in order to get the excellent Gershwin album out.

Andrew, I've always been perplexed why Disney wanted him to do ITKOD so badly they let him do the Gershwin album first, then seemed to put zero effort behind promoting ITKOD.  Do you have any insight into this?  Was it about disappointment with BWRG sales?

Apologies if this is OT, but then so is Mike Love's album...