Preview No Pier Pressure On Google Play!

[Tomorrowville]

The question isn't "innovative" or not -- although I would question what artist of Brian's generation is still "innovative" to a significant degree. The work becomes more formalist and craft-driven over time -- that's just the arc for most recording artists (unless you're Scott Walker, I guess). The question is O'hagan's specific use of the incredibly pretentious phrase "avant garde." At most, that describes one album that Brian and the Boys ever released (Smiley), and one that they didn't (Smile), both of which were done in about the span of a year.

The kind of music that Brian has made for the bulk of his career -- before and after the Smile experience -- is thickly orchestrated, vocal-harmony based pop, with a jazzy chord sensibility. Nothing avant garde about it. He is, like many of music's most successful artists, an amazing collaborator and assimilator of influences, not necessarily a true original. That was true of the Beatles, and it's largely true of Brian. Pet Sounds isn't necessarily groundbreaking in and of itself -- more complicated and experimental songs had been written before, more intricate arrangements recorded. What Brian did was very specific -- combining the Spector musicians with harmony vocals,  introspective lyrics and a concept of the pop album as a discrete unit of work.

Most of the collaborators Brian has worked with repeatedly understand this. Andy Paley. Joe Thomas. Scott Bennett. Even Van Dyke! All have, to one degree or another, helped Brian create thickly orchestrated, vocal-harmony based pop.

You know who Brian has never collaborated with? Sean O'Hagan. The only one who believes that Brian's music -- and Brian -- are something that they aren't. I'd bet that's not a mistake.

Actually, I completely agree with Wirestone here - I think O'Hagan absolutely believes Brian to be somebody he isn't, and bringing up O'Hagan quotes makes me cringe just a bit (even though I'm inclined to agree with him about Joe Thomas).  For a large subset of indie musicians, things like Smile (or, at least to some extent, the legend of Smile, passed down through a series of muddy bootlegs) were huge influences, but they cast a very narrow window on Brian and his music.  I've never been too keen on the desires for O'Hagan to do a thing with Brian - I just don't think Brian's going to be down with a High Llamas-esque mind trip.

(Personally, if we were to go down the road of "offbeat indie musician who, in our dreams, should make a record with Brian Wilson," I think somebody like Robert Schneider of The Apples in Stereo would be *far* more in tune with Brian's sensibilities than an O'Hagan - I think great things could come about from pairing the guy who wrote songs on Apples records like "Shine A Light" and "Ruby" with BW.  And even just strictly in terms of production sound, I'd love to hear these songs if they were handled by, say, a Ken Stringfellow or Chris Walla or somebody else in modern (but not super weird) indie rock/power pop rather than a Joe Thomas.  But that's just me.)

Brian making "thickly orchestrated, vocal harmony-based pop with a jazzy chord sensibility" is dead-on correct.  And I *love* "thickly orchestrated, vocal harmony-based pop with jazzy chord sensibilities."  I don't really want Brian to try to make Smile 2.  I *want* him to follow his classic sound, that orchestrated harmony-drenched pop.  I just personally don't like having said style be buried in Joe Thomas's production style.  I want to hear those songs and that Brian arrangement without the '70s light rock guitar riffs or the easy listening sax & muted trumpet and with punchier drums.

But yeah, it's apparently what Brian wants.  *shrugs*  I'm not going to judge BW and say he's wrong, just realize that his taste in this and mine are very different and move on (as I plan to do here, rather than just repeat myself too much.  I threw my 2 cents in and I'm done now, and besides I'm a newbie that nobody really cares about, haha).  Not every album's gonna hit my taste.  I still like the guy.  

[JohnMill]

Sean O'Hagan said it best:
"As far as I can see, Joe Thomas hasn't got a clue about Brian Wilson or his legacy. It's all just 'Little Deuce Coupe' to him. He wanted Brian to make a big Eighties ballad record, all cavernous snares. He kept referring to Brian's potential as an Adult Contemporary crossover artist. I sad, 'Don't you realize Brian Wilson is essentially a 20th-century avant-garde pop genius?' And he went, 'Avant-garde? Not the Brian Wilson I know'"

Brian always was - and still is - an innovative writer/artist, not one of those "contemporary" artists! Sean O'Hagan is absolutely right! It's just that Brian is too week, or rather, too kind to say what he thinks, to get rid of people...

Remember Landy?? A rock star???

http://www.gettyimages.se/detail/nyhetsfoto/brian-wilson-with-dr-eugene-landy-outside-rehearsal-for-nyhetsfoto/77697551

The question isn't "innovative" or not -- although I would question what artist of Brian's generation is still "innovative" to a significant degree. The work becomes more formalist and craft-driven over time -- that's just the arc for most recording artists (unless you're Scott Walker, I guess). The question is O'hagan's specific use of the incredibly pretentious phrase "avant garde." At most, that describes one album that Brian and the Boys ever released (Smiley), and one that they didn't (Smile), both of which were done in about the span of a year.

The kind of music that Brian has made for the bulk of his career -- before and after the Smile experience -- is thickly orchestrated, vocal-harmony based pop, with a jazzy chord sensibility. Nothing avant garde about it. He is, like many of music's most successful artists, an amazing collaborator and assimilator of influences, not necessarily a true original. That was true of the Beatles, and it's largely true of Brian. Pet Sounds isn't necessarily groundbreaking in and of itself -- more complicated and experimental songs had been written before, more intricate arrangements recorded. What Brian did was very specific -- combining the Spector musicians with harmony vocals,  introspective lyrics and a concept of the pop album as a discrete unit of work.

Most of the collaborators Brian has worked with repeatedly understand this. Andy Paley. Joe Thomas. Scott Bennett. Even Van Dyke! All have, to one degree or another, helped Brian create thickly orchestrated, vocal-harmony based pop.

You know who Brian has never collaborated with? Sean O'Hagan. The only one who believes that Brian's music -- and Brian -- are something that they aren't. I'd bet that's not a mistake.

I think Brian Wilson for his time was an innovative artist.  Yes he drew influences (who doesn't) but "Pet Sounds", "Good Vibrations" and "SMiLE" then and now...it's hard to draw comparisons with those works.  There really hasn't been anything like them in terms of approach or result since those recordings were made.  Others may have tried but as far as results go, I don't think anything has sounded as far out of left field and been as successful as something like "Good Vibrations".  I can only imagine how that record sounded back in 1966, it must have sounded like it had come down from Mars or something.  It's the definition of unique and in a class of it's own and quite possibly because of that is the greatest 45 ever released.

Brian Wilson is MOR now.  I think that is to be accepted.  Those who don't accept that fact are going to be woefully out of tune with where Brian's music is today.  Once you've accepted that fact, you can begin to appreciate that it can be argued that Wilson's music has aged better than a lot of his contemporaries because of how he arranges his music.  His vocals obviously aren't where they were when he was in his twenties but the man knows harmony, he knows arrangement, he knows how to get the most out of a particular piece of music.  He has his bulleyes and his complete misses but even on something like "The Right Time" which lyrically isn't anything that is going to blow you away, that block of harmonies is pure heaven.  When you hear those harmonies and how he arranges them, stacking and filling in holes as he goes it might as well be 1965 all over again. 

The notion that Brian Wilson in modern times is an avant garde artist is as Wirestone noted: pure nonsense.  Even if he was inclined to go that route, I'd wager he'd lose a lot of his audience by trying to make another album in the vein of SMiLE.  First off it likely wouldn't be as good and second of all it would be viewed as a retread and I can list many artists who have tried to replicate their greatest successes on modern albums only to come up short.  Brian Wilson knows what he's doing.  He's learned to live both his professional and personal life in the present, allows his music to reflect his current tastes and also is wise enough to harken back to the past when need be and throw us a few bones ("Half Moon Bay", the bass in "Whatever Happened To") that recall his past glories without trying to recreate what he's already accomplished long ago. 

[phirnis]

Sean O'Hagan's perspective is as valid as anyone's. What you hear in BW's music largely depends on your own cultural background and there are many artists from the field of experimental music who consider BW's music (even beyond Pet Sounds and Smile) a crucial inspiration.

To a certain extent I can relate to O'Hagan's approach. Brian himself, however, doesn't seem to be interested in being marketed as an "avant-garde pop genius". That's his choice. Fair enough.

[job]

I think Brian Wilson for his time was an innovative artist.  Yes he drew influences (who doesn't) but "Pet Sounds", "Good Vibrations" and "SMiLE" then and now...it's hard to draw comparisons with those works.  There really hasn't been anything like them in terms of approach or result since those recordings were made. 

Gotta include "Love You" in that list as well.

[guitarfool2002]

It's been a great read so far with the comments about Sean O'Hagan and what he said regarding Brian and his music. I think a few posters had some spot-on opinions and comments that are worth considering even beyond O'Hagan and Brian, regarding fans, influences, and creating music in general.

I'm repeating or rewording what has already been said, but I can understand where O'Hagan is coming from in some ways. But I would like to add another layer to it. And again, it can go beyond Brian's music and apply to many artists who have the body of influential work that Brian has created in his whole career.

Consider that some very strong impressions, images, and assumptions were created by many fans and especially musicians in their own minds as to who or what these musicians they were connecting with from afar may have been.

I go back to for a moment John Lennon and Elvis. There are numerous interviews where John describes being a teenager and picking up late night radio broadcasts in his bedroom as a song like Heartbreak Hotel was broadcast. It was mythical, it was epic, it was the stuff of legend in the minds of many teenagers like Lennon who heard this music, then saw what images they could find of Elvis and Eddie Cochran and Buddy Holly and others. There was the element of connecting your own dots and forming the opinions and legends about guys like Elvis based on the incredible music coming across late-night radio that was becoming part of your world. Then you start writing and playing music, and a lot of that inspiration came not just from the actual recordings but also of that grand image you held of who and what these heroes of yours actually were.

And perhaps alongside that, what you wanted them to be - maybe to live up to your expectations, to match the enthusiasm created early on by their work that first touched you deeply, or to just be that ideal in your mind in real life.

Remember the meeting between Elvis and the Beatles? Nothing really happened for a long and uncomfortable time when it first got underway after the introductions. The Beatles were starstruck, for once in a long time they couldn't talk or quip their way out of a situation. Here was Lennon sitting in the same room as the guy who he had literally dreamed about and considered a hero sitting in front of him in the same room...and he was overwhelmed by the reality. Elvis finally got tired of the scene and announced he would split if all the Beatles were going to do is stare at him...he wanted to jam, talk, etc. That broke the ice, but even then it was a tense situation. I believe all four Beatles felt let down by the experience, at least that's how they told the story in years to come.

But how could they not be let down in a way...here was the guy they had created and built up in their own mind as a giant among men, an idol, and it turned out he was basically just a guy like them underneath all the legend and fame. That can be shattering, as much as it is a thrill.

Consider how and when I'm guessing a musician like O'Hagan took that kind of deep influence from a musician like Brian Wilson.

The mythology around Smile, around the reclusive genius image, around all of the rumor and innuendo...you'd play scratchy Smile bootlegs, you'd play Smiley Smile and Pet Sounds, you'd read LLVS and all the other Smile related material available, and there would appear an image beyond what was in the music and on those pages. You created in your mind and started to believe what images you got from listening and reading and soaking it all in. I've said many times, what some of the fans who didn't get into it as of the late 80's and early 90's may have a hard time jumping into some fans' shoes and remembering a time when the idea of anything close to the level of musical output, touring, new material, etc from Brian Wilson was a fantasy, a pipe dream. Even a few years before Smile was premiered on stage, I remember very well thinking it will forever exist on bootlegs and will never go beyond.

We'll spend the next decades trying to guess what a finished Smile would be like, we'll spend decades trying to learn and analyze and decipher not only the fragments of music but also the fragments of information about the music's creator.

So perhaps some of us built up a set of expectations and an image of Brian Wilson based on some of those wishes and pipe dreams from those days when the idea of someday buying a ticket to see Brian Wilson not only tour and perform as a solo act, but one day get a full live presentation of Smile *as a cohesive whole* was the stuff of pure fantasy...it could never happen!...we thought.

Now we get the real Brian Wilson, this is the music he created and recorded and wanted to release in 2015. And retroactively, going back the previous decade-plus as well.

If it doesn't line up with that idealized, imagined perception of who he was and what kind of music he'd make if he'd only make another album, it could possibly be going back to that mindset that fans may have had in the 80's and 90's, where short of these speculations and hopes, the reality was there was nothing specific in the works, a full tour wasn't scheduled anytime soon, and Smile would exist only as fragments, bootlegs, and fanmixes.

So I do *think* I understand where Sean O'Hagan may have been coming from because I was one of those fans who went all-in and got major influences at that time when there wasn't anything concrete or even probable in the works as far as new events and music. The images at that point were easier to grasp than the reality, so those images of Brian toiling away on avant-garde music that the world wasn't ready for in 1966 and 1967 became the go-to place to be when listening and imagining the possibilities...and also taking musical and creative influence from those works.

Now there is a reality, this is the music being created by Brian Wilson on his terms. That in itself in 2015 is something a lot of us are celebrating and enjoying, it's been one helluva ride for fans. I'd hope a fellow musician like O'Hagan is listening and soaking it all in just as he did in his formative years as he obsessed over all the experimental and way-out sounds. Even if something new might not be exactly what he had imagined or hoped it would be, there are still those musical moments that we can hear and say "THAT is Brian Wilson, the real deal" and perhaps take a few influences on how a harmony part was structured or how the rhythm section was arranged, or any number of musical elements that might stand out. Even if the overall sounds or even the basic structure of the album might not be to everyone's liking, it's still music created by Brian Wilson and full of those (what I call) "Brian moments" like a bizarre chord change or whatever that you hear and smile...then try to figure out on your own.  

It can be tough for fans to progress alongside the artists especially when such strong mental images are formed, like Lennon with Elvis and any number of examples. Reality is reality - Fantasy is fantasy. When the two should meet, it's a wonderful thing. But expecting if not assuming the two will meet can invariably lead to a letdown if you get hung up on expectations versus reality. One can dream, yes, and dream so strong that you can make it a reality on those rare but beautiful moments, but sometimes it's just as enjoyable and fulfilling to take a look around you at what exists in the moment, at what is available, and soak it all in just the same.

I know Sean is a fan of Brian's music, I'd just hope he can put aside the preconceived notions or expectations (if there are any) of what he might want Brian's new music to sound like enough to listen with open ears and an open mind to catch all those "Brian moments" in the new music, whether it can be labeled avant-garde, commercial, or any other name. That one chord or melody or any other sonic goodness that we all have access to via new music in 2015...who would have thought that possible at certain points over the last 30 or even 40 years?

Great time to be a fan.  

[lastofmykind]

I have loved Brian and all BB music for a long time.  I appreciate his effort in making this album but the production is terrible.  I am Joe Thomas'd out.  I just don't see how this album will translate to sales outside of most strident BW/BB fans.  I'm just going to come out and say it, in my opinion I just don't see Brian having ability to be successful in today's music market.  I truly believe the only reason TWGMTR was so successful was because it was the "reunion" album and I would be willing to bet it was a curiosity purchase for the general public unlike most of us hardcore fans.  I have let the Google preview of NPP stew for a couple of days to give it a fair chance to grow on me and unlike most albums every time I try to listen to it, to me it gets worse.  I even hate the fact that I'm typing this, I would love to hear Brian put out a last great rock and roll album!

[ForHerCryingSoul]

I personally believe No Pier Pressure may be as successful as TLOS.  No more, no less.  I said before that this would be his best album to date, and artistically, it is.  It seems free from the pressures of the Beach Boys or Landy or any other forces at work against him.  The writing is his best in years.  Commercially, the production will not be a selling point, as everything seems to be processed through a compressor, which makes tracks sound lifeless and loud.  The vocals (whether auto-tuned or not) are heavily processed, and as a result of that, they sound soulless. 

That said, I'm still excited for this album, and I can't wait to listen to it. 

Let the arguing continue.

[drbeachboy]

I personally believe No Pier Pressure may be as successful as TLOS.  No more, no less.  I said before that this would be his best album to date, and artistically, it is.  It seems free from the pressures of the Beach Boys or Landy or any other forces at work against him.  The writing is his best in years.  Commercially, the production will not be a selling point, as everything seems to be processed through a compressor, which makes tracks sound lifeless and loud.  The vocals (whether auto-tuned or not) are heavily processed, and as a result of that, they sound soulless. 

That said, I'm still excited for this album, and I can't wait to listen to it. 

Let the arguing continue.

So, who is buying this lifeless, loud, processed music these days? Isn't this production technique what is en vogue now? Are our ears simply behind the times? Is this our issue and not Brian & Joe's?

[coco1997]

The best chance for this album to be a big success is for Capitol to promote the hell out of the songs with Zooey, Nate Reuss and the Capital Cities guy.

[ForHerCryingSoul]

So, who is buying this lifeless, loud, processed music these days? Isn't this production technique what is en vogue now? Are our ears simply behind the times? Is this our issue and not Brian & Joe's?

I agree, it could be our (my) issue.  However, it is up to the artist/musician/producer to create a product that is tasteful for the market's ears.  Brian and Joe (I believe) are trying to market toward the hip teen crowd, as evidenced by Brian's collaborations with younger musicians (which were requested by his daughters I believe).  However, the problem with this vision is that Brian is marketing toward the wrong crowd.  Many youngsters do not know or care to know who Brian Wilson is.  They (mostly) dispose and consume records quickly, anxiously waiting for the next hook.  A work with layers upon layers of instruments with a fleshed out production is not what the kids will want to hear.  Brian and Joe are marketing to the wrong audience.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

4) The exact same as #3, only without the equalization....and one note was tuned using Kerovee. Did that to throw people off.

Was it the "meant"? Because that was the one note that seemed processed to me.

Nope...it was 'these'

[ForHerCryingSoul]

The best chance for this album to be a big success is for Capitol to promote the hell out of the songs with Zooey, Nate Reuss and the Capital Cities guy.

If Lana Del Ray were on the album, Capitol would promote it, as she is a hit with the young ones.  I'm not trying to make myself seem pessimistic, but fun. is considered a has-been now, as Reuss has not released a major single since 2012 with Some Nights.  Zooey of She and Him is not a big enough artist to have an impact.  Katy Musgraves does not have a big enough fanbase to justify sales.  

I do think Peter Hollins will score some buys from internet savvy fans.

[Empire Of Love]

Great post GF, and much appreciated.  I think this can also be what is behind the tendency to view Brian as controlled by outside entities.  It is easier to take that route than to let go of our preconceived ideas of who he was and is...and who we want him to be.  And of course the Landy years, an overheard interaction backstage, his overall state of mind, etc, are easy to point to as proof that Brian is not in control and that Joe Thomas is creating this music or adding non-Brian production touches or whatever.  It's become so entrenched in the way people view him that even when someone like Ray comes here and says otherwise the illusion cannot be broken.  No, he's controlled, otherwise his new records would sound the way I want them to sound.  I'm not a fan of the Imagination-like production, and I wish Brian wasn't either, but what if he digs that sound?  We can either deal with it, move on to another hero, or continue on in denial no matter what Ray and others say.  A court of law determined Melinda was capable of acting in Brian's best interest, to my knowledge no one legally challenged that, but there are those here that still disagree, and have been vocal about it. 

So I'm with you GF, I think there is as good of a chance that these records are a better indicator of Brian and his current taste than are our own O'Hagan-esque views.

[Larry Franz]

Brian Wilson is MOR now.  I think that is to be accepted.  Those who don't accept that fact are going to be woefully out of tune with where Brian's music is today. 

Based on the two complete tracks we've heard and the snippets, NPP is MOR (or what I assume is MOR now, or what MOR was when Imagination came out). Yet it was only a few years ago that Brian produced TWGMTR. Maybe that was MOR-ish too, but I don't remember a lot of people complaining about the production. My first reaction to this new music has been disappointment, because it sounds like Brian and Joe Thomas have taken a step back from where Brian was in 2012.

Since it's safe to assume that Brian is happy with the way NPP sounds [as Empire of Love just pointed out], I'd love to hear him explain why he wanted this kind of production. And assuming he blesses us with more music in the future, I hope that he goes back to producing it without Joe Thomas's help. Anyone who can produce songs like "Shelter", "From There To Back Again" and "Summer's Gone" doesn't need a co-producer, even though he might want one, and want Joe Thomas in particular.

[HeyJude]

I think O'Hagan had some interesting insights and experiences with the BB's. Certainly entertaining stories. I don't know that a collaboration would have resulted in great music, and there's a huge question as to whether it would have functionally been able to even happen.

I think, especially back around that time, the frustration and tendency for fans to quickly jump on the O'Hagan scenario as desirable was that Brian and the band were picking some sub-par projects. This was within a year or two of Carl abandoning the Paley material (which wasn't pure genius either, but had at least a handful of tracks that were more solid than anything they had done in years) for the dire "Stars and Stripes" project and continued autopilot touring. Meanwhile, Brian's sometimes marvelous compositions were being wrung through a Kenny G filter for his solo album.

I think it would be great for Brian to do a bit like McCartney did with Nigel Godrich several years back; work with someone who will tell you when your stuff sucks, and also not overwhelm your inherent "sound." The problem is, I would guess Brian isn't comfortable with a new person coming in and "editing" his song portfolio and cracking the whip. Supposedly Darian did this a bit production-wise for "Smile", but that didn't involve all-new compositions.

All just stream of consciousness sorts of thoughts of course.  

[timbnash68]

O'Hagen's statement is certainly interesting, but it says a lot more about him than Joe Thomas or Brian Wilson.

Who on Earth seriously thinks that modern-day -- as in, the last 30 years-plus -- Brian has any interest in being an avant garde pop artist?

Joe's perspective on Brian sounds much more on point, from both a personal and commercial standpoint.

I couldn't agree more. and furthermore I don't believe Brian ever really did have any interest in being avant g arde. Except for Smile and the fact that Pet Sounds was very ahead of it's time. I certainly wouldn't call the bulk of Brian's work avant g arde. O'Hagens comments aside about Thomas and Duece Coupe which I don't understand, I think it is O'Hagen who is romanticizing his own wishes or opinions about how he visualizes HIMSELF working with Brian. Just like that girl or guy that some sit in high school dreaming about. You can visualize your house , kids and whole life with the person. The only problem is they ARE going out with Joe Thomas, or Andy Paley or Scott Bennett and NOT YOU !  I personally think Brian may actually like to hang out with these guys. I've never read an interview where Brian mentioned being influenced by O'Hagen. And I certainly don't see the Brian Wilson of the last 20 years laying on the floor with Joe Thomas, smoking a joint and recording vocals.  Auto Tuned or not. Who would help either one of them get up off the floor? Maybe they could get O'Hagen to help them up!

[Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll]

I know Sean is a fan of Brian's music, I'd just hope he can put aside the preconceived notions or expectations (if there are any) of what he might want Brian's new music to sound like enough to listen with open ears and an open mind to catch all those "Brian moments" in the new music, whether it can be labeled avant-garde, commercial, or any other name. That one chord or melody or any other sonic goodness that we all have access to via new music in 2015...who would have thought that possible at certain points over the last 30 or even 40 years?

Great time to be a fan.  

These Sean quotes are from nearly 20 years ago, right?

[Amy B.]

At this stage in his career, it seems to me that sales are not the most important factor for Brian. The fact that he's making new music and that he is a marquis name for a label should be enough. But I know that Brian has said that sales are important to him, and certainly sales are important to record labels. I doubt this will be a big hit, simply because Brian Wilson is not a big name (I realize this contradicts what I said about his being a marquis name--well, it is, for those people in the know. But his name does not have the Baby Boomer backing that the Beach Boys name does, nor is a known to young people). I have no idea how well Paul McCartney's last album did, but he is very, very savvy at marketing, and I believe he teamed up with a hit-making producer, did he not? Joe Thomas isn't exactly the hot producer of the moment. (McCartney also recently collaborated with Kanye West.)

I'm not expecting Brian to suddenly have a huge hit, but I love that something is driving him to make new music, and that those of us who love his music get to enjoy new material.

[Autotune]

Sean O'Hagan said it best:
"As far as I can see, Joe Thomas hasn't got a clue about Brian Wilson or his legacy. It's all just 'Little Deuce Coupe' to him. He wanted Brian to make a big Eighties ballad record, all cavernous snares. He kept referring to Brian's potential as an Adult Contemporary crossover artist. I sad, 'Don't you realize Brian Wilson is essentially a 20th-century avant-garde pop genius?' And he went, 'Avant-garde? Not the Brian Wilson I know'"

Brian always was - and still is - an innovative writer/artist, not one of those "contemporary" artists! Sean O'Hagan is absolutely right! It's just that Brian is too week, or rather, too kind to say what he thinks, to get rid of people...

Remember Landy?? A rock star???

http://www.gettyimages.se/detail/nyhetsfoto/brian-wilson-with-dr-eugene-landy-outside-rehearsal-for-nyhetsfoto/77697551

The question isn't "innovative" or not -- although I would question what artist of Brian's generation is still "innovative" to a significant degree. The work becomes more formalist and craft-driven over time -- that's just the arc for most recording artists (unless you're Scott Walker, I guess). The question is O'hagan's specific use of the incredibly pretentious phrase "avant garde." At most, that describes one album that Brian and the Boys ever released (Smiley), and one that they didn't (Smile), both of which were done in about the span of a year.

The kind of music that Brian has made for the bulk of his career -- before and after the Smile experience -- is thickly orchestrated, vocal-harmony based pop, with a jazzy chord sensibility. Nothing avant garde about it. He is, like many of music's most successful artists, an amazing collaborator and assimilator of influences, not necessarily a true original. That was true of the Beatles, and it's largely true of Brian. Pet Sounds isn't necessarily groundbreaking in and of itself -- more complicated and experimental songs had been written before, more intricate arrangements recorded. What Brian did was very specific -- combining the Spector musicians with harmony vocals,  introspective lyrics and a concept of the pop album as a discrete unit of work.

Most of the collaborators Brian has worked with repeatedly understand this. Andy Paley. Joe Thomas. Scott Bennett. Even Van Dyke! All have, to one degree or another, helped Brian create thickly orchestrated, vocal-harmony based pop.

You know who Brian has never collaborated with? Sean O'Hagan. The only one who believes that Brian's music -- and Brian -- are something that they aren't. I'd bet that's not a mistake.

Brilliantly put, Wirestone. "Avant garde" is a term that does not apply to Brian; and much debatable as an asset, as O'Hagan seems to imply in his bitter and full-of-prejudice account of his approach to the band. In the end, Thomas digs Brian more than O'Hagan did.

[Larry Franz]

Or maybe NPP will start sounding great after many listens to the whole thing.

But one thing for sure: If I heard "Our Special Love" on the radio, and didn't know it was a Brian Wilson song, I'd switch to another station as soon as Peter Hollens started singing.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Or maybe NPP will start sounding great after many listens to the whole thing.

But one thing for sure: If I heard "Our Special Love" on the radio, and didn't know it was a Brian Wilson song, I'd switch to another station as soon as Peter Hollens started singing.

Why? He's very good. Makes that song IMO.

[rab2591]

Or maybe NPP will start sounding great after many listens to the whole thing.

But one thing for sure: If I heard "Our Special Love" on the radio, and didn't know it was a Brian Wilson song, I'd switch to another station as soon as Peter Hollens started singing.

Why? He's very good. Makes that song IMO.

Though I liked it from the get-go, it did take a while to get used to the new style. If you listen closely and peel away the layers, there is a lot of brilliance in that song - many harmonies are buried deep in the mix that you don't quite pick up on during the initial listen (at least for me). That the entire thing is a cappella is stunning.

[guitarfool2002]

I know Sean is a fan of Brian's music, I'd just hope he can put aside the preconceived notions or expectations (if there are any) of what he might want Brian's new music to sound like enough to listen with open ears and an open mind to catch all those "Brian moments" in the new music, whether it can be labeled avant-garde, commercial, or any other name. That one chord or melody or any other sonic goodness that we all have access to via new music in 2015...who would have thought that possible at certain points over the last 30 or even 40 years?

Great time to be a fan.  

These Sean quotes are from nearly 20 years ago, right?

You'll have to ask the poster who posted them. I'm relating it to 2015 just as the quote was posted in a discussion about a new Brian Wilson album in 2015.

[Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll]

I know Sean is a fan of Brian's music, I'd just hope he can put aside the preconceived notions or expectations (if there are any) of what he might want Brian's new music to sound like enough to listen with open ears and an open mind to catch all those "Brian moments" in the new music, whether it can be labeled avant-garde, commercial, or any other name. That one chord or melody or any other sonic goodness that we all have access to via new music in 2015...who would have thought that possible at certain points over the last 30 or even 40 years?

Great time to be a fan.  

These Sean quotes are from nearly 20 years ago, right?

You'll have to ask the poster who posted them. I'm relating it to 2015 just as the quote was posted in a discussion about a new Brian Wilson album in 2015.

Yeah, They are all pre-imagination quotes so what Sean thinks now may be quite different....or not.

Article is behind a subscription wall here if anyone has one - http://www.rocksbackpages.com/Library/Article/brain-wilson-endless-bummer

[Wirestone]

Yet it was only a few years ago that Brian produced TWGMTR. Maybe that was MOR-ish too, but I don't remember a lot of people complaining about the production.

They most definitely did. And on all of the same points -- instrumentation, vocal processing, etc. It was muted somewhat by the excitement that everyone had at seeing all the guys back together as a coherent unit.

Anyone who can produce songs like "Shelter", "From There To Back Again" and "Summer's Gone" doesn't need a co-producer, even though he might want one, and want Joe Thomas in particular.

Point taken -- except that each one of those songs was co-written by Joe. I've come to think Joe's greatest skill is actually his songwriting with Brian. He's gotten stuff out of the man -- songs like "Lay Down Burden" and the suite on TWGMTR -- that few others have managed since the 70s (giant exception made for Scott Bennett and "Midnight's Another Day).