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Author Topic: New Brian Wilson song just premiered on radio  (Read 66553 times)
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« Reply #150 on: February 16, 2015, 11:55:17 PM »

Man that's a nice tune.
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« Reply #151 on: February 17, 2015, 12:31:41 AM »

It's like Lay Down Burden Pt. 2- 'cept w/Al Jardine. I'm lovin' it.   Afro
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« Reply #152 on: February 17, 2015, 01:36:52 AM »

Man that's a nice tune.
Definite earworm - been ringing through my head all day long!
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« Reply #153 on: February 17, 2015, 02:10:26 AM »

It's lovely, but I did a double take when Al started singing.. I thought it was Mike at first  Shocked
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« Reply #154 on: February 17, 2015, 02:23:11 AM »

It's lovely, but I did a double take when Al started singing.. I thought it was Mike at first  Shocked
LOL  Imagine that.  The board server would have melted-down and heading towards China by now.
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« Reply #155 on: February 17, 2015, 04:05:02 AM »

I'm so late in on this thread so apologies if this has been discussed before:

That last chord really reminds me of one of the TWGMTR songs - maybe Strange World? I can't listen at the moment as my kids have hijacked my spotify acct! It does seem odd that it ends with that clean break and suggestive chord - kind of feels like it is leading in to something.

Could this be one of the Life cycle songs?

It is quite bland MOR and imo one of BW's less remarkable melodies. However, I grew quite fond of the production sound of TWGMTR and this fits right in. I also found that songs that initially did nothing for me (like Strange World) were slow burners. This may be the same deal for me. I like the vocal break in the middle with the Mike Love style 'bows'.

Have any other NPP songs been released yet?
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« Reply #156 on: February 17, 2015, 05:17:25 AM »

Have any other NPP songs been released yet?

Only the one with Peter Hollens (Our Special Love).
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« Reply #157 on: February 17, 2015, 05:33:18 AM »

It's lovely, but I did a double take when Al started singing.. I thought it was Mike at first  Shocked
LOL  Imagine that.  The board server would have melted-down and heading towards China by now.

Heya Al! Smiley    I was thinking a similar thing  Cheesy   
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« Reply #158 on: February 17, 2015, 05:52:59 AM »

Interestingly, the song does not fade out...it has a clear ending. Unusual for BW songs.

Again, kind of ballsy.  Very few songs have a clear ending anymore, I like that we're getting something a little different...

I think the new song is good and all, but is a cold ending really "ballsy"? I'll go ahead and assume "very few" songs have a clean ending anymore for the sake of this discussion. But it isn't like Brian busted out a two minute trumpet solo in the middle of the song. In the realm of recorded music, there's pretty much only two ways to end a track (other than the end of "Strawberry Fields Forever" or the original "Help Me Ronda" or something), and this track uses one of those two ways. Not "ballsy" in the slightest in any way I can measure, nor does it need to be.
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« Reply #159 on: February 17, 2015, 05:56:28 AM »

Have any other NPP songs been released yet?

Only the one with Peter Hollens (Our Special Love).

Thanks - I think I did check that one out when it was announced.
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« Reply #160 on: February 17, 2015, 05:58:24 AM »

I don't want to start another 10-page autotune debate. I'm more than willing to call "autotune" when I hear it. But I'm not so sure Al is autotuned on this track. If he is, it's more subtle and not nearly as obvious as something like "From There to Back Again."

Some of the backing vocals with Brian sound a bit more "auto-tuney", and I agree it's difficult to know by listening, and probably difficult to know even if you're there watching the vocals being recorded (since it will often be applied long after the initial recording). But Al sounds much more organic on this recording. The track is awash in reverb, way too much for my taste, and that might account for a bit of the difficulty in discerning whether autotune is there.
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« Reply #161 on: February 17, 2015, 07:10:40 AM »

Hey does anybody hear Shortin' Bread in this song? No? Well neither do I.But I digress. It amazes me how everybody is now an expert on recording techniques and really has better  taste than Brian Wilson whenit comes to producing a song. There is a weird vibe on this board sometimes, almost as if you wanted the Beach Boys to be something different then they really were. When the album does come out I think this is the last place I'd want to be, too much negativity .Unless Brian Wilson visits, than everyone is on their best behavior.

Don't know how long you've been here Gerry, but believe me: the pedantic, hipster, audiophile vibe has been here a long, long, long time.  Since the inception of the board 10 years ago!  Some people get it, some people don't. 

When you record the human voice, it is immediately processed.  If you amplify the human voice, it is processed.  If Brian isn't sitting in your immediate vicinity with an acoustic band playing this song, the damn thing is processed, we're all just arguing about the level of processing that's been done to it.  Everyone was cool with Brian recording sh*t in a swimming pool in 1966 but if he uses a little too much reverb now he's suddenly lost it and doesn't know what he's doing. 

Production sounds awesome to these ears.  To each his own.

Thanks so much Ron.  I desperately wanted to find a non-bitchy way to say this and failed, so edited myself into saying next to nothing.  A gentleman who speaks regularly to Brian and had access to this music months ago tells us what processing Brian used and people STILL argue the point?  Isn't one of the big reasons most of us are here that we love Brian's production techniques?  Gives me a headache.
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« Reply #162 on: February 17, 2015, 07:20:10 AM »

Why was this song released in Norway of all places?
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« Reply #163 on: February 17, 2015, 07:44:49 AM »

Why was this song released in Norway of all places?

What's wrong with Norway?
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« Reply #164 on: February 17, 2015, 07:45:08 AM »

"The Right Time" is now available when you pre-order on iTunes (and I think on Amazon as well).  Man, I cannot wait for the rest of the album!
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« Reply #165 on: February 17, 2015, 07:51:56 AM »

Why was this song released in Norway of all places?

Why not? Particularly these days, when a track can be heard all over the world within minutes of its debut, no matter where that happens to take place, it really doesn't matter.

I mean, we're all here, people from all over the planet, discussing it. We've all heard it already, even though it only aired in Norway just over 24 hours ago. Anyone who wants to has had the chance to listen to it about five hundred times by now. It's not like it only came out on a 10-inch 78rpm record in three stores in Trøndhejm and no-one else can hear it...   Wink

I say... Go Norway!
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« Reply #166 on: February 17, 2015, 07:54:13 AM »

Hey does anybody hear Shortin' Bread in this song? No? Well neither do I.But I digress. It amazes me how everybody is now an expert on recording techniques and really has better  taste than Brian Wilson whenit comes to producing a song. There is a weird vibe on this board sometimes, almost as if you wanted the Beach Boys to be something different then they really were. When the album does come out I think this is the last place I'd want to be, too much negativity .Unless Brian Wilson visits, than everyone is on their best behavior.

Don't know how long you've been here Gerry, but believe me: the pedantic, hipster, audiophile vibe has been here a long, long, long time.  Since the inception of the board 10 years ago!  Some people get it, some people don't.  

When you record the human voice, it is immediately processed.  If you amplify the human voice, it is processed.  If Brian isn't sitting in your immediate vicinity with an acoustic band playing this song, the damn thing is processed, we're all just arguing about the level of processing that's been done to it.  Everyone was cool with Brian recording sh*t in a swimming pool in 1966 but if he uses a little too much reverb now he's suddenly lost it and doesn't know what he's doing.  

Production sounds awesome to these ears.  To each his own.

I think this is a gross oversimplification in terms of board member attitudes, and the comparison of various forms of “processing” is false equivalency.

There is a very wide margin between “singing into a microphone, running it through a mixing board, and then onto a recording device” and heavy use of a software plug-in (whether it’s “autotune” or some other software).

It is indeed always worth keeping in mind that other forms of studio tricks and processing have been at play for eons. But with some weird exceptions like running a voice through a Leslie speaker on “Be Here in the Morning”, nothing fundamentally alters the sound, tone, timbre, and actual notes of a singing performance the way autotune-type plug-ins do.

I totally buy the idea that an autotune-type effect is not at play on “The Right Time”, and a discussion of the recording and mixing (and mastering) techniques at play that are giving the recording that smooth type of effect would be a great discussion. I’m not sure how equipped most (including in some cases myself) are here to have such a conversation, as it requires a good ear and a familiarity with some recording techniques. Some still swear they can’t hear autotune on “Don’t Back Down” on the C50 live album or on “From There to Back Again.” It’s difficult to have discussion from that basis.  

Like any message board on any topic, folks can scrutinize too much or overanalyze, and jump to conclusions. But I’ve never seen some vast swath of audiophile snobs on this board. If anything, I’ve seen equal amounts of reactionary anti-audiophile sentiment. It’s tough to find someone here, for instance, that particularly loves the work of someone like Steve Hoffman, who in some audiophile circles is “the man”, or someone like Kevin Gray.

It may be wrong to assume that everything Joe Thomas touches will be bathed in autotune. We shouldn’t assume this. But, there is an explanation for why folks might assume this, and it’s worth mentioning that the reason is that two recent projects involving Thomas have used autotune (or autotune-type software), in some cases rather noticeably.

As to getting to the bottom of whether autotune-type effects are used on a recording, it will rarely if ever happen with any artist. With the exception of cases where it is painfully obvious that it is used as an “effect” rather than as a pitch correction tool, you’ll almost never get an artist, producer, or engineer to just come out and admit they used any sort of pitch correction plug-ins on their recordings. Can someone point to some cases where fans or critics screamed “autotune!” where the artist, producer, or engineer just said “yeah, we used it”, and it wasn’t being used as an “effect?”
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« Reply #167 on: February 17, 2015, 07:58:51 AM »

I agree wtih that... I think you could call it an "AM Radio" style production, it's very 70's styled but in a good way, in my opinion.  Like "Welcome Back Kotter" or "WKRP In Cincinatti" or the "Laverne & Shirley" theme song. 

I've missed 70's era Brian Smiley

I missed the part where the BB recorded mundane Steely Dan/Chicago/America/Eagles-styled soft rock in the 1970s -- or how that could have ever been a good thing, had it been the case.
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« Reply #168 on: February 17, 2015, 08:05:41 AM »

Thanks so much Ron.  I desperately wanted to find a non-bitchy way to say this and failed, so edited myself into saying next to nothing.  A gentleman who speaks regularly to Brian and had access to this music months ago tells us what processing Brian used and people STILL argue the point?  Isn't one of the big reasons most of us are here that we love Brian's production techniques?  Gives me a headache.

We love a lot of Brian's production techniques. But we love the techniques because they are impressive, not because Brian did it. Brian has produced some s***ty-sounding recordings in his career too. So have pretty much all of our musical heroes. Sometimes, the production is both insanely impressive and sounds like crap. "Heroes and Villains" is one of the most amazing recordings *and* productions ever, and it also sounds like crapola sonically in places.

Brian and/or Joe Thomas (or someone else involved in the engineering or mixing, etc.) have, in the last few years, used what many feel is a detrimental audio effect, and more importantly, one that is *unneeded*. Jardine still has his pipes. Whoever decided to autotune his voice up the wazoo on "From There to Back Again" made a bad decision, whether it was Brian or Joe Thomas or Van Dyke Parks or Saul Goodman.
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« Reply #169 on: February 17, 2015, 08:17:41 AM »

There is a very wide margin between “singing into a microphone, running it through a mixing board, and then onto a recording device” and heavy use of a software plug-in (whether it’s “autotune” or some other software).

It is indeed always worth keeping in mind that other forms of studio tricks and processing have been at play for eons. But with some weird exceptions like running a voice through a Leslie speaker on “Be Here in the Morning”, nothing fundamentally alters the sound, tone, timbre, and actual notes of a singing performance the way autotune-type plug-ins do.

I totally buy the idea that an autotune-type effect is not at play on “The Right Time”, and a discussion of the recording and mixing (and mastering) techniques at play that are giving the recording that smooth type of effect would be a great discussion. I’m not sure how equipped most (including in some cases myself) are here to have such a conversation, as it requires a good ear and a familiarity with some recording techniques. Some still swear they can’t hear autotune on “Don’t Back Down” on the C50 live album or on “From There to Back Again.” It’s difficult to have discussion from that basis.  

Like any message board on any topic, folks can scrutinize too much or overanalyze, and jump to conclusions. But I’ve never seen some vast swath of audiophile snobs on this board. If anything, I’ve seen equal amounts of reactionary anti-audiophile sentiment. It’s tough to find someone here, for instance, that particularly loves the work of someone like Steve Hoffman, who in some audiophile circles is “the man”, or someone like Kevin Gray.

It may be wrong to assume that everything Joe Thomas touches will be bathed in autotune. We shouldn’t assume this. But, there is an explanation for why folks might assume this, and it’s worth mentioning that the reason is that two recent projects involving Thomas have used autotune (or autotune-type software), in some cases rather noticeably.

As to getting to the bottom of whether autotune-type effects are used on a recording, it will rarely if ever happen with any artist. With the exception of cases where it is painfully obvious that it is used as an “effect” rather than as a pitch correction tool, you’ll almost never get an artist, producer, or engineer to just come out and admit they used any sort of pitch correction plug-ins on their recordings. Can someone point to some cases where fans or critics screamed “autotune!” where the artist, producer, or engineer just said “yeah, we used it”, and it wasn’t being used as an “effect?”

Nice post; my thoughts exactly. The only thing I would add is that autotune is sometimes used by the horribly misinformed so that vocals will 'sit better in the mix', as I once heard it phrased. It has nothing to do with the actual performances of the vocalists.

No matter which way you look at it, pushing autotune is a huge dishonor to Brian and the BB. They can still sing. They don't need it, and Brian doesn't need his songs ruined by it.
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« Reply #170 on: February 17, 2015, 09:03:57 AM »


There is a very wide margin between “singing into a microphone, running it through a mixing board, and then onto a recording device” and heavy use of a software plug-in (whether it’s “autotune” or some other software).

It is indeed always worth keeping in mind that other forms of studio tricks and processing have been at play for eons. But with some weird exceptions like running a voice through a Leslie speaker on “Be Here in the Morning”, nothing fundamentally alters the sound, tone, timbre, and actual notes of a singing performance the way autotune-type plug-ins do.

I totally buy the idea that an autotune-type effect is not at play on “The Right Time”, and a discussion of the recording and mixing (and mastering) techniques at play that are giving the recording that smooth type of effect would be a great discussion. I’m not sure how equipped most (including in some cases myself) are here to have such a conversation, as it requires a good ear and a familiarity with some recording techniques.

I wouldn't normally excerpt a post like this, but I wanted to address these three points in particular, in bold.

First point: You'd be surprised. Many variables are in play. There is no such thing as a pure signal chain as it seems you're suggesting and trying to compare to the plug-in signal chain. I could mention one of at least a dozen variables that could alter the sound of that natural voice going into a recording device.

Let me focus on one: The microphone. Are you using a large diaphragm or small diaphragm condenser? Are you using a condenser mic or a ribbon mic? Are you using a dynamic mic like a 57 or an old-school dynamic mic like a 666? Maybe a broadcast-style mic like the RE20, or an SM7? How about condensers, are you going for a vintage style tube mic like a C12 or a U47? Ribbon mics...RCA 44, 77, or a newer model like a Royer? Large diaphragm condensers, perhaps an AKG 414, maybe a Blue Bottle? Want a distorted sound, maybe a Green Bullet for that effect, or simply overdrive a preamp with any mic? Why use a 57 in a studio but not a 58? Omnidirectional, unidirectional, figure 8? Go for vintage Neumann or a modern Mojave?...yada yada yada.  Smiley

The point is that the choice of microphone is only one factor in the voice-microphone-recording device chain that can have a radical effect on how that voice sounds when recorded. Only one - and even the variables and choices I listed scratch the surface as far as what can alter the sound. How about the non-electronic or non-mechanical variables, such as mic placement, mic technique from the vocalist, placement within a room or a booth if you want an open sound versus a controlled sound...all that jazz. Then preamps, EQ's, the "voice" of one board versus another, type of cable, type of converter if it's digital or type of tape machine if it's analog...some very minor but among the pros, each can have enough of an effect on the sound to make a difference, and to influence certain choices as they're made in the process.

Two quotes from engineer Wesley Seidman's article in Mix magazine describing the recording process from Brian's No Pier Pressure sessions:

1. Seidman captured the performances to Pro Tools in all three of the studios at Ocean Way (A, B and D), but the engineer says Wilson prefers to do live band tracking and orchestral sections in Studio B, a room that has also hosted sessions for award-winning albums by Green Day, Radiohead, and Eric Clapton with B.B. King: “It’s just the sound and feel of the room itself, and the [custom 56-Input 8068/8088] Neve doesn’t hurt,” Seidman says. “He did almost all of the work on his solo records in there. But he also likes Studio A, where we cut a few tracks and is my favorite room for strings. We also cut a lot of the background vocals and guest vocals for the new album in D.”

2. Wilson’s vocals were recorded in all three rooms with a Neumann U 47. In Studio A, his voice went through the modified Focusrite console to a Teletronix LA-2A. “In D, we would go through the remote Neve pre’s into an [Universal Audio] 1176, and then toward the last third of the record, I purchased a modified API mic pre, which has amazing bandwidth, and sent the 47 through that, into an 1176. And this is all flat—Brian EQs himself by moving around the mic, which he does naturally. We also used a plethora of [UAD] reverb and delay plug-ins. This enabled us to automate the delay and reverb times for each section of the songs where desired. Brian and I both like the FX to be just right.


Note the choice between different rooms in the same studio complex to capture specific characteristics and for specific purposes. Note also the mentions of an LA-2A and 1176...why use an optical compressor versus a FET compressor, and what's the difference? It all seems minor, but again all of these factors can dramatically and noticeably change that so-called "pure sound" depending on how they are used.


Second:

But with some weird exceptions like running a voice through a Leslie speaker on “Be Here in the Morning”, nothing fundamentally alters the sound, tone, timbre, and actual notes of a singing performance the way autotune-type plug-ins do.

This is simply not true. The misconception or misunderstanding may be between the Cher, T-Pain, or Kanye deliberate over-use of the effect versus setting up the parameters as to be mostly unnoticeable. It could be shown by taking an unprocessed isolated vocal track and A-B'ing it with an Autotuned track done to smooth out rather than to deliberately create an effect. If anyone has problems with and can even hear the latter use on any number of vocal tracks across the musical spectrum, I'd suggest there is a very lucrative career in the audio mastering field waiting for such highly trained ears.  Grin

Last, I’m not sure how equipped most (including in some cases myself) are here to have such a conversation, as it requires a good ear and a familiarity with some recording techniques.

Sounds about right.  Wink  Which is why I don't understand making all of these things an ongoing issue, again and again and again.
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« Reply #171 on: February 17, 2015, 09:16:03 AM »

From what I've heard (I can only go by the segment of it in the "sizzle reel" on YouTube), it's a pretty, pleasant song, but I find myself let down by the production.  I'm not even talking about the presence or absence of any pitch correction - if it's there, it's not bothering me much.  It's more the instrumental sound.  It's very clean, very slick, very professional, but just...I dunno, I wish for a more gutsy, lively production style.  Same issue I had with "Imagination."  Keeping the collaboration production style, I can't help but imagine how it'd sound with the input of a more lively indie rock-y producer rather than Thomas.
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« Reply #172 on: February 17, 2015, 09:21:07 AM »

Interestingly, the song does not fade out...it has a clear ending. Unusual for BW songs.

Again, kind of ballsy.  Very few songs have a clear ending anymore, I like that we're getting something a little different...

I think the new song is good and all, but is a cold ending really "ballsy"? I'll go ahead and assume "very few" songs have a clean ending anymore for the sake of this discussion. But it isn't like Brian busted out a two minute trumpet solo in the middle of the song. In the realm of recorded music, there's pretty much only two ways to end a track (other than the end of "Strawberry Fields Forever" or the original "Help Me Ronda" or something), and this track uses one of those two ways. Not "ballsy" in the slightest in any way I can measure, nor does it need to be.

You're right, i'll go change my opinion.
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« Reply #173 on: February 17, 2015, 09:23:19 AM »

Why was this song released in Norway of all places?

What's wrong with Norway?

You could argue the weather's too cold and the women are too hot.  Other than that, not much...

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« Reply #174 on: February 17, 2015, 09:24:25 AM »

I agree wtih that... I think you could call it an "AM Radio" style production, it's very 70's styled but in a good way, in my opinion.  Like "Welcome Back Kotter" or "WKRP In Cincinatti" or the "Laverne & Shirley" theme song. 

I've missed 70's era Brian Smiley

I missed the part where the BB recorded mundane Steely Dan/Chicago/America/Eagles-styled soft rock in the 1970s -- or how that could have ever been a good thing, had it been the case.

You're right.  I'll go change my opinion. 
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