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Author Topic: The Paley sessions - some new info from Andy Paley (updated)  (Read 8457 times)
kwan_dk
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« on: February 09, 2015, 05:52:36 AM »

I know there's been a ton of threads about the Paley sessions but I felt like starting a new one since I've gotten some new info directly from Andy.

I have a blog that deals with the Spector sound / the Wall of Sound and recently did an e-mail interview with Andy about his music & the time when he and his brother cut a song with Spector in 1978.

Having access to him, I couldn't help asking him about the sessions with Brian. Maybe it's just me who hasn't been paying attention, but Andy's claim that they recorded heaps of stuff, maybe as much as a hundred songs, was new to me. Up untill now I had just imagined that the widely bootlegged stuff was all there is. Here are some quotes from the interview:

"There are many other recordings that haven’t seen the light of day as far as I know." (...) I will tell you that Brian knows how good the stuff is. We were having lots of fun writing and recording back then. We may’ve written a hundred songs. It was a real creative explosion. (...) in general, the stuff we wrote has never been mixed and released. Maybe someday it will all come out. I hope so."

For the full interview, go here:
https://cuecastanets.wordpress.com/2015/02/05/andy-paley-interview/

Whatever it is that has kept these songs from being mixed and released, it doesn't seem to be because of any unwillingness from Andy. In this fairly recent Popdose interview he notes that he still talks to Brian once in a while.
http://popdose.com/the-popdose-interview-the-paley-brothers/

So just out of curiosity, does anyone here know more about his claim that there's way more material gathering dust somewhere? I personally really like a lot of those songs. It's such a shame that they haven't come out mixed and in proper sound.

UPDATE: Since starting this thread I've had the chance to ask Andy some more questions. It has now been turned into a new interview for my blog. There's some more info about his collaboration with Brian.

https://cuecastanets.wordpress.com/2015/02/15/andy-paley-interview-part-ii/



 

« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 06:08:34 AM by kwan_dk » Logged

Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2015, 06:33:21 AM »

In the interview, he says they "may've written a hundred songs", not recorded a hundred: all he says there is "there are many other recordings that haven't seen the light of day as far as I know".
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2015, 06:44:57 AM »

In the interview, he says they "may've written a hundred songs", not recorded a hundred: all he says there is "there are many other recordings that haven't seen the light of day as far as I know".

The original poster only extrapolated that there MAY be up to a hundred songs recorded. It’s certainly possible Paley has at least some sort of rudimentary demo recording for any songs he co-wrote with Brian. So *if* they really wrote a hundred songs (which is probably where the hyperbole lies), I don’t think it’s inappropriate to suggest there then *may* be up to a hundred songs recorded in some form.

No huge revelations in this Paley interview, but I’m glad people are still asking and trying to get some info. Sounds like the Usher sessions situation; years after the fact, there are parties who would be happy to put the recordings out, but Brian is unlikely to spearhead any such release. It’s probably especially unlikely with the Paley stuff since Brian re-worked a few of the tracks on later releases.

I’ve mentioned it many times and there are links to the old “Internet Wayback Machine”, but there was a really interesting interview with Paley on the short-lived “petsounds.com” website where he got into some specifics about the sessions and especially the BB involvement. It always sticks in my mind that, even if an exaggerated claim, he felt the BB’s could have cut vocals for an entire album’s worth of the material in a couple days. He had some good insights into their vocal strengths. How *good* a BB album full of Paley/Wilson songs could have been, I don’t know. I think having the BB’s add vocals to maybe 5 or 6 of the strongest songs would have been cool. I don’t know if a full strong album of material was there. I’ve even grown to like some of the kitschy eclectic stuff like “Slightly American Music” and even “Chain Reaction of Love”, but the critics would have torn that stuff apart most likely.
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2015, 06:46:08 AM »

I think I remember Brian claiming in a '90s interview that he had worked on only about 30 or so songs.

When did they first meet? The Complete Paley Brothers supposedly has a track with Brian on backing vocals ("Boomerang"), but it's been written that they were only introduced to each other shortly before BW88.
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LeeDempsey
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2015, 07:00:36 AM »

When I interviewed Andy for ESQ back in November 1994 (the day after the tribute show at the Morgan-Wixson Theatre) he pulled out several cassettes of the stuff he was working on with Brian.  I'm sure I heard more tracks than what was eventually bootlegged.

Some of Andy and Brian's songs appear to have been published through SESAC, as opposed to ASCAP or BMI.  A repertory search at
http://www.sesac.com/Repertory/SongsByWriter.aspx?affilNum=101822
turns up these additional titles:
Stay Right Here in Heaven
There's Always Music
Train Train Train

I specifically recall hearing "Stay Right Here In Heaven," a bouncy uptempo tune.

Lee
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2015, 07:07:12 AM »

When did they first meet? The Complete Paley Brothers supposedly has a track with Brian on backing vocals ("Boomerang"), but it's been written that they were only introduced to each other shortly before BW88.

Try reading the interview.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 07:09:23 AM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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puni puni
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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2015, 08:34:27 AM »

I did read the interview, but did not notice the popdose link, which does answer my questions.
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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2015, 08:54:09 AM »

Can you guys recommend a good all-around primer on the Wilson/Paley sessions?

It's history, list of known songs written/recorded, plans for release, etc.

And if it's within the rules of the board, the name of the collection(s) where the recordings themselves can be experienced?


I've done some searches here, and while there are some promising-looking threads, I'm just wondering if there exists any "one-stop-shop" place for the fan new to the W/P project?

Thanks. Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2015, 10:21:45 AM »

I read on this board (and I believe everything I read) that about 80% of the music is Paley and 20% Wilson. That's why it hasn't come out. Can somebody corroborate that? I think Paley was asked and he sidestepped or was vague in his answer to the question and someone ascertained that Paley had written most of the material.
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2015, 11:34:30 AM »

"Slightly American Music" is allegedly almost entirely a Paley composition, and in private conversation with a mutual friend many years ago, he stated that "Soul Searching" was 95% him.
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2015, 12:14:29 PM »

I personally don't think it's 80/20, maybe more like 55/45. There's songs on those sessions that scream Andy Paley ("Slightly American Music", "Chain Reaction of Love", "Elbow '64") and others like "Gettin' in Over My Head" and "Saturday Morning in the City" that are very Brian.

Recall reading somewhere that "Soul Searchin'" was Paley's song and Brian added the middle eight. I might be misremembering, but I'll see if I can find the link for where I saw that.

Regardless of who wrote what, to me the material that's out there from these sessions is the best music Brian's been involved with since Love You. I really think it's criminal that a curious fan can't just order a copy off Amazon and hear this for themselves when things like the Disney album and GIOMH (good as they can be at times) exist.

With apologies to AGD for stealing his bit, I'd say the odds of release for a definitive Wilson/Paley sessions are pretty low. I can't see Brian gathering any enthusiasm for revisiting 20 year old sessions at this point, regardless of their quality. Sadly I think the best we're going to get at this point might be a few tracks on a Brian Wilson solo box set.

Thanks for the link to the interview! Off to read it now.
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kwan_dk
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2015, 01:09:30 PM »

I personally don't think it's 80/20, maybe more like 55/45. There's songs on those sessions that scream Andy Paley ("Slightly American Music", "Chain Reaction of Love", "Elbow '64") and others like "Gettin' in Over My Head" and "Saturday Morning in the City" that are very Brian.

Recall reading somewhere that "Soul Searchin'" was Paley's song and Brian added the middle eight. I might be misremembering, but I'll see if I can find the link for where I saw that.

Maybe this is the interview you remember, Jason?
http://www.rockcellarmagazine.com/2013/09/04/beach-boys-collaborators-stephen-kalinich-andy-paley-interview/#sthash.u1qFRZcc.dpbs

According to Andy here, Soul Searching was mostly his but Brian contributed heavily with lyrics - pretty unusual. It normally seems to be the other way around with Brian. Andy also calls 'You're Still a Mystery' a 50/50 effort.

Someone really should conduct an in-depth interview with Andy about all this. I merely touched upon the subject in passing in my interview (see original post) because the main focus was on Andy's own music and his experience working with Spector. I was actually surprised that Andy elaborated a bit on his and Brian's collaboration since it seems to be clouded in mystery and, it appears, a bit of controversy.

Oh, and Andrew - you're right. I should have been more specific in my original post. I didn't mean to give the impression that there may be as much as a hundred songs recorded - I don't believe that at all - but like others in this thread have stated, I think it's very likely that there's a great deal more than what has been bootlegged. I was just surprised to learn that Andy considered the amount of co-written songs big enough to merit using the number 'hundred' to emphasize their productivity. Some of those songs must have been turned into demos.

I guess Brian and his management would still own the rights to these recordings, right? Or could they somehow belong to Andy legally?
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2015, 02:08:25 PM »

I guess Brian and his management would still own the rights to these recordings, right? Or could they somehow belong to Andy legally?
Whoever pays for the recordings owns them.
Ownership of the songs is a different matter, of course.
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2015, 02:39:23 PM »

I know this much. As per the Pulp Surfin' liners, "In My Moondreams" is 100% Paley; Brian's only contribution is the vocals.
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2015, 04:37:57 AM »

"Slightly American Music" is allegedly almost entirely a Paley composition, and in private conversation with a mutual friend many years ago, he stated that "Soul Searching" was 95% him.
The first part of the verses is a complete rewrite of Brian's Hey Little Tomboy. The 'I heard it', 'I gotcha' and 'we made it' bits are Rudy Clark's Got My Mind Set On You and the 'Honest Abe done freed those slaves' bit is the 'Round and around and around we go, the music keeps me on my feet' hook from Brian's Roller Skating Child etc etc.
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« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2015, 06:20:18 AM »

"Slightly American Music" is allegedly almost entirely a Paley composition, and in private conversation with a mutual friend many years ago, he stated that "Soul Searching" was 95% him.
The first part of the verses is a complete rewrite of Brian's Hey Little Tomboy. The 'I heard it', 'I gotcha' and 'we made it' bits are Rudy Clark's Got My Mind Set On You and the 'Honest Abe done freed those slaves' bit is the 'Round and around and around we go, the music keeps me on my feet' hook from Brian's Roller Skating Child etc etc.

Meh, in the realm of Brian “re-purposing” melodies/songs, these aren’t the most clear examples. I agree there are similarities in the comparisons here, but they are not straight lifts of the chords/melody as much as using similar syncopation and meter. The “honest abe” versus “round and round and round we go” are not the exact same chord changes. Same thing with the verses on “Slightly” versus “Hey Little Tomboy.” I suppose the “we made it” bit is like “Got My Mind Set On You” on that two-chord riff, but when each song moves to a third chord to move to the next part of the song, that chord is different.

I’d say something like “Walkin’ the Line” versus “Looking Down the Coast” is a better example of two very different songs where a prolonged very similar chord *and* melody pattern was used.

To the degree Paley material sounds like “Roller Skating Child” and “Hey Little Tomboy”, that *would* maybe help to explain why they couldn’t score a record deal off of the material.
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« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2015, 04:03:47 PM »


Yep, that's the one I think. I still have a nagging recollection of reading someplace the middle eight was Brian's as well, but I can't remember where or when I came across the tidbit, so better not to believe that I guess.

In terms of picking out Brian's musical involvement in these sessions, the pre-chorus if you will to "Must Be a Miracle" was also in the song "Tricia" which itself is a spin-off of Sandy/Sherry/She Says That She Needs Me as somebody helpfully pointed out in another thread.
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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2015, 02:23:44 AM »


Yep, that's the one I think. I still have a nagging recollection of reading someplace the middle eight was Brian's as well, but I can't remember where or when I came across the tidbit, so better not to believe that I guess.

In terms of picking out Brian's musical involvement in these sessions, the pre-chorus if you will to "Must Be a Miracle" was also in the song "Tricia" which itself is a spin-off of Sandy/Sherry/She Says That She Needs Me as somebody helpfully pointed out in another thread.
The melody of parts of the verses("Have you ever seen...", etc) also sound quite similar to "When Girls Get Together".
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« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2015, 04:02:42 PM »


The melody of parts of the verses("Have you ever seen...", etc) also sound quite similar to "When Girls Get Together".

Bingo. Another good catch.
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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2015, 06:08:13 AM »

UPDATE: Since starting this thread I've had the chance to ask Andy some more questions. It has now been turned into a new interview for my blog. There's some more info about his collaboration with Brian.

https://cuecastanets.wordpress.com/2015/02/15/andy-paley-interview-part-ii/
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« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2015, 07:29:02 AM »

Nice followup, thanks.
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Jason Penick
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2015, 02:21:55 PM »

Hi, I left a comment on your blog but just wanted to say thanks again in case you missed it. Your interview with Paley was really enlightening.

This part in particular was a nice reveal:

Quote
It was a true 50 / 50 collaboration in every way including production. There were a few exceptions but in general that’s the way it worked. Brian told me that I was the only writer he ever worked with who wrote music as well as lyrics. By the way I think Brian is a great lyricist.
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2015, 03:32:43 PM »

Hi, I left a comment on your blog but just wanted to say thanks again in case you missed it. Your interview with Paley was really enlightening.

Thank you for the comment, Jason. Both here and on the blog. I'm glad that you found this second interview interesting.

I sure hope we'll somehow get to hear those Brian & Andy songs the way they were envisioned and properly mixed as Paley himself points out in the interview.
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« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2017, 10:12:11 AM »

I have been searching and can't find a good answer, so I thought I'd bump this thread.  Regarding the Paley Brothers song Boomerang, does anybody know more details on Brian's involvement?  I know he is credited as working with the background vocals, but I am curious as to whether he wrote the harmonies, did the falsetto, was a middle voice in the stack, etc.  Thanks!
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