Smiley Smile = Party! Part II

[TMinthePM]

Nice work, GF.

Two books come to mind as I read your post - Goeff Emerick's (hope I've spelled that correctly) memoir of working with the Beatles at Abbey Road, and Revolution in the Head, by MacDonald, the last the best I've ever read (repeatedly) concerning the Fabs.

[joshferrell]

when it comes to SS I kind of think of it like when Kurt Cobain recorded "In Utero" his intention was to make the worst album he could so that it would fail, of course in doing so it became a masterpiece that was so unique people just thought he was being artistic, I'm thinking maybe Brian was getting back at the other guys for not supporting Smile so he set out to record the worst album he could, and it became an art statement....lol.. like his ex wife Marilyn said in IJWMFTT about Brian and the other members of the group after Smile(and I'm paraphrasing) "Look if you think you can do better than go ahead." Brian gave the producer helms to the other boys, washing his hands of it, hence it being Produced by Beach Boys..

[Micha]

I think it was "If you think it's so easy, you do it." - At least that's what I remember, but it's the same point really.

[Micha]

the music itself was mostly just Revolver part II.

Interesting, this is not how I feel at all. The only two tracks that retain a little bit of that "Revolver" vibe IMHO are Good Morning and Lovely Rita. But I just don't like the sheer sound of them as much as the overall sound of Revolver. I don't know the reason, guitarfool could probably write a full message board's worth of detail about it, be it the placement of the mikes or the way the reverb is used.

It's really a thing like preferring dark hair over blondes or vice versa. I don't care how much innovation or creativity Pepper contains more than Revolver. Pepper feels to me like watching a rainy English afternoon with a cup of tea in my hand (which can be nice in a way), while Revolver is like watching an exciting football (soccer) match.

I don't believe that Revolver is regarded better by some because the sounds can be recreated more easily. It just has a more natural sound.

[Bean Bag]

Party
Pet Sounds
Smiley Smile

A party sandwich.  Party! is the top bun.  Light, airy, fluffy.  Pet Sounds the meat & veggies (or tofu for those with a hard-on for the lousy Beatles).  And Smiley is the bottom bun -- that absorbs all the burger juice.

[joshferrell]

as far as Sgt Pepper, I just recently heard the Mono mix, and don't get me wrong the stereo mix sounds excellent but the mono version sounds "Unique" in the same way that Pet sounds sounds great in stereo but has it's own "Unique" sound mixed in mono...I hear more of the pet sounds influence on the mono version.. but yeah I always thought it was overrated, I like Magical Mystery tour better because the songs are better, I also Like Abbey Road mainly because of the production but I like how it has the Beatles from ALL time periods represented on it, it has heavy guitars, it has pianos, it has orchestral music, it has harmonies, it has ballads, it has political statement (maxwell silver hammer) it has earthy Folk music (Her majesty) it has the moog synths, it has all the Beatles actually playing together unlike the White Album, it has psychedelic sounds and lyrics (Come together and Polythene pam), it has a happy kid song, it has a blues type song (Oh darlin) and (with the exception of Her Majesty) it has no fillers. it's the beatles going back to the basics but with great production..I just wish the "Let it be" album was like that, even though I think that "I,Me,Mine" comes closest to that..

[CenturyDeprived]

Party
Pet Sounds
Smiley Smile

A party sandwich.  Party! is the top bun.  Light, airy, fluffy.  Pet Sounds the meat & veggies (or tofu for those with a hard-on for the lousy Beatles).  And Smiley is the bottom bun -- that absorbs all the burger juice.

 

that's both hilarious and remarkably accurate. I can't think of many bands who have released an iconic record (which is not the band's 1st or last record), and to have that record bookended on BOTH sides by such unusual, drastically different (from the iconic record's sound) albums, especially all within a short time period. It's quite unique, AFAIK.

Of course, if you put Summer Days and Summer Nights (the last "proper" studio record), and have the Boys finish SMiLE and release it, it seems like a much more logical progression in a Pet Sounds sandwich. The only real reason the actual released album chronology is so bizarre as it is, is because of a stopgap-to-buy-time quickie record (are there any people here who really think Party! was conceived for any other reason?) and the unprecedented amount of unreleased SMiLE recordings (which show the natural, yet huge leap forward, artistic progression that was **supposed** to follow). Can someone please just invent a time machine and find a way to help get SMiLE completed in '67? Let's get on that, people.

[ppk700]

when it comes to SS I kind of think of it like when Kurt Cobain recorded "In Utero" his intention was to make the worst album he could so that it would fail, of course in doing so it became a masterpiece that was so unique people just thought he was being artistic, I'm thinking maybe Brian was getting back at the other guys for not supporting Smile so he set out to record the worst album he could, and it became an art statement....lol.. like his ex wife Marilyn said in IJWMFTT about Brian and the other members of the group after Smile(and I'm paraphrasing) "Look if you think you can do better than go ahead." Brian gave the producer helms to the other boys, washing his hands of it, hence it being Produced by Beach Boys..

That's a very interesting theory. "In Utero" is my favorite album, and I very much like the comparison you've drawn with "Smiley Smile." I can see it. Both are masterpieces, to this listener.

[CenturyDeprived]

I wonder if Brian would have been able to release an album to "buy time" to help him finish SMiLE, if such an easy option were afforded to him. Not saying time was all he needed to finish it, but it was one of the things he needed.  As I stated in an earlier post, I theorize that maybe SS was an attempt at this in and of itself, if he had it in his head to maybe finish recording SMiLE at a later point (which of course, he did - mucccch later).

He was lucky that Party! filled that role when it did, but maybe it was obvious 1.5 years after Party! that the public wasn't gonna accept another record like that, due to the exponentially sped-up rate of change in popular music, and expectation from the public.

Was Lei'd in Hawaii almost another attempt at an album with the Party! mindset too, to get an easy-to-record album done quickly in order to buy time for writing more new songs?

[Micha]

Can someone please just invent a time machine and find a way to help get SMiLE completed in '67?

Sometimes I wonder if it wasn't for the better that we got to choose our favorite bits from the big pool of recordings. I'm certain I would appreciate a 1967 finished SMiLE less than my own I-put-on-it-what-I-like SMiLE compilation. If I imagine a 1967 SMiLE without Holidays and Look (SFC) but with the Rock Me Henry Wonderful in place of the harpsichord version...

On the other hand, it would be nice to have a fully orchestrated version of Surf's Up with those Good Vibrations era sonic characteristics in place of the prog-rock-era cobbled together picking over the bones from 1971 which does next to nothing for me.

[CenturyDeprived]

Can someone please just invent a time machine and find a way to help get SMiLE completed in '67?

Sometimes I wonder if it wasn't for the better that we got to choose our favorite bits from the big pool of recordings. I'm certain I would appreciate a 1967 finished SMiLE less than my own I-put-on-it-what-I-like SMiLE compilation. If I imagine a 1967 SMiLE without Holidays and Look (SFC) but with the Rock Me Henry Wonderful in place of the harpsichord version...

On the other hand, it would be nice to have a fully orchestrated version of Surf's Up with those Good Vibrations era sonic characteristics in place of the prog-rock-era cobbled together picking over the bones from 1971 which does next to nothing for me.

I'll bet ya anything that if SMiLE had in fact come out in '67, that regardless of if immediately became a game-changer in music history or not (debatable by some, though I for one think it would have), that we'd STILL have gotten an official Capitol huge box set of fragments/parts by themselves many years later, as was the case with the completed album Pet Sounds.

[Lee Marshall]

I'll bet ya anything that if SMiLE had in fact come out in '67, that regardless of if immediately became a game-changer in music history or not (debatable by some, though I for one think it would have), that we'd STILL have gotten an official Capitol huge box set of fragments/parts by themselves many years later, as was the case with the completed album Pet Sounds.

100%.  [well as close to 100% as one can come when guessing about something which really didn't and therefore couldn't happen]  Still THAT'S how I think it would have gone too Cent Dep.  I disagree with Brian D Wilson.  I think the general public WAS more than ready...that they were, in fact, primed and pining for something which Smile would have delivered by the hay-wagon load.

So?  We got albums like...Sgt Peppers, Their Satanic Magesties Request, Days of Future Past,/On The Treshold of a Dream/In Search of the Lost Chord/Tommy/The Genuine Immitation Life Gazette...for goodness sake...,and 'Prog Rock'.

Yes.  We were MORE than ready for Smile.

[stack-o-tracks]

when it comes to SS I kind of think of it like when Kurt Cobain recorded "In Utero" his intention was to make the worst album he could so that it would fail, of course in doing so it became a masterpiece that was so unique people just thought he was being artistic, I'm thinking maybe Brian was getting back at the other guys for not supporting Smile so he set out to record the worst album he could, and it became an art statement....lol.. like his ex wife Marilyn said in IJWMFTT about Brian and the other members of the group after Smile(and I'm paraphrasing) "Look if you think you can do better than go ahead." Brian gave the producer helms to the other boys, washing his hands of it, hence it being Produced by Beach Boys..

I dunno about Kurt trying to make the "worst album he could" or Brian doing the same in regards to In Utero and Smiley Smile, because there's some killer songwriting on both those releases.... But  I do agree Kurt & Brian had similar intentions with them, trying to relieve  pressure from the record company suits to follow up hit albums they wrote/produced.

And in a way, they succeeded. Neither of them were forced into rehashing their old sounds, and neither achieved the lofty commercial heights as their earliest works..... Though it's a goshdarn shame what happened to both of those creative geniuses, because with one we lost decades of great music, and the other we lost a whole lifetime of great music....


Mental illness and drug addiction are some of the worst things. Glad people finally came around and stopped stigmatizing, and started being more accepting of those "eccentricities".

[Micha]

I'll bet ya anything that if SMiLE had in fact come out in '67, that regardless of if immediately became a game-changer in music history or not (debatable by some, though I for one think it would have), that we'd STILL have gotten an official Capitol huge box set of fragments/parts by themselves many years later, as was the case with the completed album Pet Sounds.

Good point, could be.

I disagree with Brian D Wilson.  I think the general public WAS more than ready...

I wonder if Brian D. Wilson really disagrees with you or if that's only the official version for interview perposes.

Personally, I think a 1967 finished SMiLE would be regarded as highly as Satanic Majesties and The Who Sell Out. Pet Sounds would still be regarded as "THE" masterpiece.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

To address some recent points that have been raised:

Until/unless we get more insight, it's unclear if Brian was self-sabotaging or genuinely trying a new direction when the old one didn't work out. I tend to think he took the boys criticisms (it's too complex to play live! / the lyrics are too obtuse and depressing) and tried to rectify that for Smiley. He just didn't do it how the Boys wanted, and intentionally so. You want something more stripped down? Here. Have fun. But I'm still not comfortable writing the album off as intentionally subpar. Maybe a dig at the Boys criticisms, but I still think he wanted to push boundaries in a different way and still wanted people to like it.

The fact that we can mix our own SMiLEs is a definite silver lining, but in no way an ideal scenario to Brian just finishing it properly. I want the complete vocals to Worms, Child, Look and others. I want a complete Surfs Up and Elements. I want to be able to introduce people to this music without showing them BWPS, the unfinished TSS or my fan fiction mixes. I want the public to have acknowledged the true masterwork instead of the lame Pepper as the statement of the decade. I want this new direction of Brian's to have been encouraged so he'd keep going and make more albums of that calibur.

I agree 100% with Add Some. The world was absolutely ready for SMiLE. It was poised to take the public by storm.

[SMiLE Brian]

BWPS is smile...

[rab2591]

BWPS is smile...

No. BWPS is the one that was recorded and released by Brian Wilson...ya know, the artist who created the music. So, uh, that doesn't count as Smile.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

BWPS is smile...

I'm not gonna get into that again, not here.

But I vastly prefer the Wrecking Crew instruments and Beach Boy vocals, and I know the majority does too. So if I were to tell someone "check out SMiLE, it's the best" I'd want them to hear, well, the best.

[SMiLE Brian]

BWPS is BW's final word on SMiLE. I like the sessions a damn lot, but it gets annoying since it is unfinished. BWPS is the key to the puzzle.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

BWPS is BW's final word on SMiLE. I like the sessions a damn lot, but it gets annoying since it is unfinished. BWPS is the key to the puzzle.

I think this is the wrong thread to debate this old point again.

I want people to be able to hear SMiLE the Beach Boys album. The 60s album. The psychedelic album. Without having to just settle for TSS or fan mixes. Is that better? Is that the semantically correct way to express this point, without starting a debate on BWPS' legitimacy?

[TMinthePM]

Quote: "We were MORE than ready for Smile."

The assertion that we were all waiting for Smile to be released in 1967 has always puzzled me. Granted, I was only a kid in my mid-teens, and rock n roll was certainly central to my existence, but I never knew what was coming next. I'd just be down at the record department of Times Square Store in Babylon, N.Y. scanning the display racks and flipping thru the bins (Beach Boys/Beatles back to back and always my first stop). Never even heard of Smile till, I don't know, maybe the early 70's.

 

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Quote: "We were MORE than ready for Smile."

The assertion that we were all waiting for Smile to be released in 1967 has always puzzled me. Granted, I was only a kid in my mid-teens, and rock n roll was certainly central to my existence, but I never knew what was coming next. I'd just be down at the record department of Times Square Store in Babylon, N.Y. scanning the display racks and flipping thru the bins (Beach Boys/Beatles back to back and always my first stop). Never even heard of Smile till, I don't know, maybe the early 70's.

 

You're taking it too literally. That just means the world was ready for the far out, challenging, psychedelic type of music SMiLE had to offer. The abundance of crazy progressive albums from '66 to '70 ought to be proof of that.

[TMinthePM]

Yeah. OK. That is certainly true.