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Author Topic: Carl Wilson biography due September 29th  (Read 56782 times)
Loaf
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« Reply #125 on: August 25, 2015, 02:13:30 PM »


05/19/1948.....do I win a new car or something ?



By the way: The announced date of the book's release date is my birthday as well – 9/29/50.

[Wow! The second oldest poster documented on the board! Congratulations!]

6/22/50. Wife 9/11/53. She's been a fan since we met in high school.  Comes with the


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« Reply #126 on: August 25, 2015, 02:21:10 PM »

Sorry for my ignorance. I seem to recall seeing a video clip on YouTube a few years ago about a forthcoming documentary about Carl. Did that ever materialize?
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« Reply #127 on: August 25, 2015, 05:17:50 PM »

Did you mean this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWwhrVXXcZU
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« Reply #128 on: August 25, 2015, 06:28:35 PM »


Sweet, thanks!
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« Reply #129 on: August 25, 2015, 07:43:46 PM »

Here's the link for more info on the CW video:
http://www.billyhinsche.com/CW-HandN.html
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« Reply #130 on: August 25, 2015, 08:18:04 PM »

I should note-that when Jon and I wrote our book we intended to cover the 90s in a lot more detail but the publisher didn't want the book to exceed a certain number of words, so 1986-2012 basically became a list with occasional comments.  Maybe the same thing befell this book.  Publishers often force authors to cut a lot.
That was my only complaint about your wonderful book, so it's nice to hear from you that it was not necessarily your own choice.
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« Reply #131 on: August 25, 2015, 08:20:35 PM »

I think in this case, those who were closest to Carl are respecting Carl's own distaste for tell-all journalism, which from what I've heard (and witnessed) was strong.
I don't care to ever read another tell-all tome about my favorite musicians. You could fill several shelves with the crap written about Elvis Presley.
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« Reply #132 on: August 26, 2015, 07:37:11 AM »

It's a little disappointing to hear this book won't go into further depth than what is already out there or known. Telling the whole story, warts and all, would honor such an integral part of this historic band. The struggles and hard times are all part of his story. One of the best autobiographies I've ever read is Open by Andre Agassi. He revealed a lot of personal and tragic things from his life, but ultimately it helped his fans and historians understand what he dealt with being a world-famous celebrity. I'm certain there would be quite a bit of redemption to be highlighted after some of the more difficult years. I also understand that family/friends would rather not dwell on the hard parts...
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« Reply #133 on: August 26, 2015, 07:49:12 AM »

I am not in favor of a tell all but to tell the story of Carl you need the Wilson family, surviving bandmates and friends to be willing to open up
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« Reply #134 on: August 26, 2015, 07:57:24 AM »

I think there are plenty of areas one could get into concerning Carl, if someone were able and willing to comment on those areas, without going “tabloid.” For instance, some insight from family or associates concerning Carl’s attitude towards the touring band and the BB brand in general would be interesting, and I don’t think that sort of stuff is trashy or tell-all. It’s the sort of thing Carl might have commented on had he given (or been asked for?) more interviews. I would imagine this will be touched on in the book, but if it does breeze through the 80s and 90s, it probably doesn’t get into that stuff in much detail. A breakdown of what happened to the band in the late 90s would also be interesting, especially in relation to Carl and his attitude towards all of that, but again we probably won’t get that.

Does anyone know if the paucity of Carl interviews (comparatively speaking of course), especially in the 80s and 90s, is more to do with Carl turning down interviews or just flying under the radar, or did people just not seek him out for interviews? The obvious answer would be that it was a bit of both. When Carl did interviews, they were always interesting. He obviously would make thoughtful comments, although there was often still some level of a guard up.

Ian has done a good job both of giving us some insight into the book and explaining why the author had some built-in limitations, both in terms of sources and perhaps publisher limitations. But I have to say, breezing through the 80s and 90s is not something I’m particularly happy about. That era, just like in McCartney bios (and other solo Beatles bios), is often glossed over in favor of going through early eras in more detail. I do understand, publishers know that insights into “Smile” and the band’s formation and all of that are more enticing to the average consumer than details about the 1982 tour.

I don’t know if this Carl bio will be a “Day One” purchase for me, but I’m curious to hear more about it.

Ian, is there any chance of publishing more detailed entries for 1986-2012 from the “In Concert” book, perhaps online?
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« Reply #135 on: August 26, 2015, 08:37:14 AM »

Yes I am considering starting a blog if I can get it together
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« Reply #136 on: August 26, 2015, 08:54:55 AM »

I was hoping that the upcoming book would at least shed some light on exactly when Carl became seriously ill. I'm pretty sure that it's an "open secret" that Carl was ill quite some time before the "official" cancer diagnosis in April of 1997. A fairly detailed account of the years 1995 to 1997 would be interesting to read.
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« Reply #137 on: August 26, 2015, 05:52:01 PM »

Yeah, let's have a full blown documentary on Carl's lung and brain cancer episodes complete with a  step by step breakdown of how he rapidly declined during his last days on earth. Inquiring minds want to know for sure. Roll Eyes How about doctor visits and MRI's? How about his bouts with chemo therapy-we need to know all about that and his increasing need for oxygen. And why not a section on how his family dealt with the crisis-maybe some interviews and some good old pictures. My God, do we need to go there? Really?  Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh
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« Reply #138 on: August 26, 2015, 08:33:29 PM »

Perhaps it's the (amateur) guitarist in me, but I hope the book contains some detail about Carl's guitar collection. I know that Justyn has said that there isn't a tonne of them, but I'd still be interested nonetheless.
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« Reply #139 on: August 27, 2015, 01:01:57 AM »

Yeah, let's have a full blown documentary on Carl's lung and brain cancer episodes complete with a  step by step breakdown of how he rapidly declined during his last days on earth. Inquiring minds want to know for sure. Roll Eyes How about doctor visits and MRI's? How about his bouts with chemo therapy-we need to know all about that and his increasing need for oxygen. And why not a section on how his family dealt with the crisis-maybe some interviews and some good old pictures. My God, do we need to go there? Really?  Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh

It would have been nice, no, expected, for the author to mention the last time he saw his brother, or how he began to look noticeably ill some two years before the "official" announcement, but a source I trust implicitly tells me it doesn't. Said source agrees with Ian that the first half of the book is mostly a BB biography and adds that there are some unforgivable errors which indicate either poor research, poor proofing or both. Jon handled Dennis' decline and death with great sensitivity and insight. This book seems to offer little more than "he was diagnosed, toured a bit then died". I'll be interested to see the whole thing, but my hopes aren't high.
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« Reply #140 on: August 27, 2015, 01:50:11 PM »

Yeah, let's have a full blown documentary on Carl's lung and brain cancer episodes complete with a  step by step breakdown of how he rapidly declined during his last days on earth. Inquiring minds want to know for sure. Roll Eyes How about doctor visits and MRI's? How about his bouts with chemo therapy-we need to know all about that and his increasing need for oxygen. And why not a section on how his family dealt with the crisis-maybe some interviews and some good old pictures. My God, do we need to go there? Really?  Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh

It would have been nice, no, expected, for the author to mention the last time he saw his brother, or how he began to look noticeably ill some two years before the "official" announcement, but a source I trust implicitly tells me it doesn't. Said source agrees with Ian that the first half of the book is mostly a BB biography and adds that there are some unforgivable errors which indicate either poor research, poor proofing or both. Jon handled Dennis' decline and death with great sensitivity and insight. This book seems to offer little more than "he was diagnosed, toured a bit then died". I'll be interested to see the whole thing, but my hopes aren't high.

Sorry to hear, ADG, that there's apparently little written about Carl's last years (Of course, I'm not referring to the ignorant drivel that was OSD's post).
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« Reply #141 on: August 27, 2015, 02:08:03 PM »

I understand that if sources won’t talk, there are going to be huge limitations. But I would hope the story could be fleshed out by a myriad of BB scholars and fans and insiders. For instance, it wouldn’t take talking to Carl’s family to find posts on this board such as Ray Lawlor’s post describing the letter Mike wrote and sent to BRI in 1997 demanding Carl step down due to his health issues, otherwise he (Mike) was going to quit. I’m not picking on Mike here or even trying to dredge that discussion up again, but all that stuff is pertinent to admittedly sketchy period in 1997/98, so I’m just trying to cite an example of something that isn’t in a bunch of other biographies on the band, but can be found online and/or via talks with fans and scholars. Obviously, I don’t know if the book goes into that stuff; maybe it does. But it’s sounding like it’s already light on the last couple of decades. For both fans of the group and Carl, some clarity or at least additional information about that late era would be indispensable. Right now, our best source for that time period is probably, ironically, a David Marks biography, where Dave was able to add some insights since he was dragged into that situation in late 1997.
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« Reply #142 on: August 27, 2015, 02:36:42 PM »

I understand that if sources won’t talk, there are going to be huge limitations. But I would hope the story could be fleshed out by a myriad of BB scholars and fans and insiders. For instance, it wouldn’t take talking to Carl’s family to find posts on this board such as Ray Lawlor’s post describing the letter Mike wrote and sent to BRI in 1997 demanding Carl step down due to his health issues, otherwise he (Mike) was going to quit. I’m not picking on Mike here or even trying to dredge that discussion up again, but all that stuff is pertinent to admittedly sketchy period in 1997/98, so I’m just trying to cite an example of something that isn’t in a bunch of other biographies on the band, but can be found online and/or via talks with fans and scholars. Obviously, I don’t know if the book goes into that stuff; maybe it does. But it’s sounding like it’s already light on the last couple of decades. For both fans of the group and Carl, some clarity or at least additional information about that late era would be indispensable. Right now, our best source for that time period is probably, ironically, a David Marks biography, where Dave was able to add some insights since he was dragged into that situation in late 1997.
Hey Jude - I'm on the same page as dear OSD. (We don't have to go there.) It is difficult to imagine what could be gained by prying into a very difficult era, which was one heroic last farewell to Carl's fans, and consider myself blessed having seen him that one last time.

If Carl's family wishes discretion and privacy, why does that need to be violated?
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« Reply #143 on: August 27, 2015, 03:24:31 PM »

It's sounding like this book may be a bit bland, maybe I should cancel my pre order and get it from the library. It's one thing to respect a family's privacy, another thing to present the facts in a professional, heartfelt manner. He was after all a public figure and reporting events in a proper manner is not an unreasonable thing to expect.
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« Reply #144 on: August 27, 2015, 03:51:31 PM »

I understand that if sources won’t talk, there are going to be huge limitations. But I would hope the story could be fleshed out by a myriad of BB scholars and fans and insiders. For instance, it wouldn’t take talking to Carl’s family to find posts on this board such as Ray Lawlor’s post describing the letter Mike wrote and sent to BRI in 1997 demanding Carl step down due to his health issues, otherwise he (Mike) was going to quit. I’m not picking on Mike here or even trying to dredge that discussion up again, but all that stuff is pertinent to admittedly sketchy period in 1997/98, so I’m just trying to cite an example of something that isn’t in a bunch of other biographies on the band, but can be found online and/or via talks with fans and scholars. Obviously, I don’t know if the book goes into that stuff; maybe it does. But it’s sounding like it’s already light on the last couple of decades. For both fans of the group and Carl, some clarity or at least additional information about that late era would be indispensable. Right now, our best source for that time period is probably, ironically, a David Marks biography, where Dave was able to add some insights since he was dragged into that situation in late 1997.
Hey Jude - I'm on the same page as dear OSD. (We don't have to go there.) It is difficult to imagine what could be gained by prying into a very difficult era, which was one heroic last farewell to Carl's fans, and consider myself blessed having seen him that one last time.

If Carl's family wishes discretion and privacy, why does that need to be violated?

This is the same straw man nonsense that you went around and around about when some of these issues were brought up months ago. Nobody is suggesting anything to the degree you seem to be implying.

To simply know what occurred with the band itself is not off limits; and why should it be? Nobody is trying to violate HIPAA guidelines or even get into Carl's illness itself beyond mention that he was ill and then passed away. Mike Love himself has discussed Carl's health issues in more specific and graphic terms than *anything* I'm talking about here (there's an interview where Mike gets into specifics about his wife's armchair diagnosis of how much time Carl had left based on specific secondary health ailments he was having). I'm talking less about anything to do with Carl and more about how his situation impacted the band. This should be on record for historians and scholars of the band.

Nobody is "violating" anything. Are you suggesting that Ray Lawlor mentioning a few details about a letter Mike sent to BRI asking Carl to step down in 1997, a letter also mentioned and referenced by BRI's Elliott Lott, is "violating" the wishes of Carl's family?

This stuff is already public record. Nobody is suggesting we dwell on it. But to create some straw man argument about "not going there" (wherever "there" is) is silly, regardless of the reasoning, which I sense in this case happens to be related to the fact that the little factoid I cited happens to not make Mike Love look particularly great.

If even a cursory discussion of the band's internal issues in 1997 and 1998, both relating to Carl and other issues, is "off limits" because of Carl's death, then I would imagine you also feel that *huge* chunks of, say, Jon Stebbins' book about Dennis Wilson is also out of line?
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« Reply #145 on: August 27, 2015, 04:04:04 PM »

My concern on any of these projects is getting the facts right. With sourced material, previously published works, all of that, you run the risk of republishing things that aren't quite the facts. Look, we've recently had a case where someone posted a link to this board of what purported to be a clinical psychoanalysis of Brian Wilson, but done by someone who apparently had not even been in the same room with let alone spoken with or interviewed the subject of that analysis. It's one thing to do this as an academic exercise or something for a hypothetical classroom type of experience, but it's beyond irresponsible when things like that start being posted online then taken as fact, or even given attention as truth or even learned opinion. At some point the line of common sense has to be drawn, and certain things dismissed and ignored appropriately.
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« Reply #146 on: August 27, 2015, 04:16:59 PM »

If Carl's family wishes discretion and privacy, why does that need to be violated?

If - as seems to have been the case - Carl's immediate family declined to participate, then fine, that's the end of that. However, there's a fair amount of info about Carl's last years that is public record, and my understanding is that pretty much all of it has been passed over. Example: Brian & Melinda went to watch the 1998 Super Bowl with Carl at Jerry Schilling's house. Having seen his brother looking (relatively) good at Audree's funeral roughly two months earlier, Brian was shocked at his appearance and in the car on the way back told Melinda "I don't think we're going to see him again". And they didn't. Last meeting between the two remaining Wilson brothers deserves at least a mention.

Here's an odd thing: I've been told I get a thanks in the credits. The author never contacted me in any way, and, if the errors I've been told of are accurate (you know what I mean...) it's clear that he never so much as looked at 10452 or the ComGuide. Or the Billboard chart archives.
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« Reply #147 on: August 27, 2015, 05:52:13 PM »

Yeah, let's have a full blown documentary on Carl's lung and brain cancer episodes complete with a  step by step breakdown of how he rapidly declined during his last days on earth. Inquiring minds want to know for sure. Roll Eyes How about doctor visits and MRI's? How about his bouts with chemo therapy-we need to know all about that and his increasing need for oxygen. And why not a section on how his family dealt with the crisis-maybe some interviews and some good old pictures. My God, do we need to go there? Really?  Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh

It would have been nice, no, expected, for the author to mention the last time he saw his brother, or how he began to look noticeably ill some two years before the "official" announcement, but a source I trust implicitly tells me it doesn't. Said source agrees with Ian that the first half of the book is mostly a BB biography and adds that there are some unforgivable errors which indicate either poor research, poor proofing or both. Jon handled Dennis' decline and death with great sensitivity and insight. This book seems to offer little more than "he was diagnosed, toured a bit then died". I'll be interested to see the whole thing, but my hopes aren't high.

Sorry to hear, ADG, that there's apparently little written about Carl's last years (Of course, I'm not referring to the ignorant drivel that was OSD's post).

Oh, it's drivel alright, BUT YOU READ IT, DIDN"T YOU?HuhHuh?? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
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« Reply #148 on: August 27, 2015, 09:26:06 PM »

All in all, it sounds as if the definitive Carl Wilson bio is yet to be written.  But it also seems that much of the history is "out there " but has not been compiled, sequenced, and fleshed out through follow up research and interviews with family, friends, and those in or close to the band.     
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« Reply #149 on: August 28, 2015, 12:53:46 PM »

I really would have loved to hear about what the relationship between Carl and Dean Martin was like. Two of the most beautiful voices of the 20th century.... Man, if there only was a recording with the two of them....


Apart from the biographical stuff, I really would like to read about Carl's work in the recording business (not just Beach Boys), his skills as a guitar player and producer even more.
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