I Am Brian Wilson: New Autobiography

[Ang Jones]

I just observe what happens.

No, you don't: like anyone with an idée fixe (viz. pretty much everyone in the world at some time or other and certainly everyone here), you see what you want to see in any given situation and build on that. Not that it really matters, because the opinion of anyone who truly thinks - or even puts forth the proposition - that Pet Sounds would have sounded better without the vocals of Carl, Dennis, Mike, Alan & Bruce, but rather with a wall-of-1966-Brians,  is several AUs beyond worthless. Just my opinion, of course, but I feel it has merit.

Gosndarn it, I woke up cranky this morning. More tea, more toast...

You are putting words into my mouth. I never said Pet Sounds would have sounded better without the other Beach Boys - I said that Brian could have done it (and it would have sounded good).  I also made the point that Mike and Dennis had deeper voices than Brian and obviously that means that Brian couldn't sound just like either of them.  The Beach Boys, plural, were responsible for superb vocals, I'm not arguing with that. But that was then. Without Carl and Dennis and with the surviving Beach Boys in their 70s the situation is different. No doubt it helps Brian to have a younger band on stage with him and no doubt the same is true for Mike and Bruce.  

Am I ?

Pet Sounds would have had amazing vocals if Brian had done them all on his own.

... the implication being the existing vocals... aren't: "well, yeah, it's OK I guess, but if Brian...". That's your basic MO these days: anything The Beach Boys can or have done, Brian can do or could have done better. Know something ? There are many times I would heartily agree with you... but invariably ? No. It's the differences that make up the wonder of BB harmony. A wall-of-Brian's can be an astonishing, moving thing ("Midnight's Another Day", "Lovin' Feelin'", to name but two) But as GIOMH proved dramatically, it can also pall if used indiscriminately (granted, such a dire album isn't the best possible example, but you see my point).

BTW, you noted that Mike & Dennis have deeper voices than Brian: fact is, Brian has a respectable bass vocal when he turns his mind to it (best example: 1973 version of "Shortenin' Bread"). Currently, he's the best (only ?) bass in his own band. For some arcane reason that both amuses and pleases me.  

I hold by what I wrote. Pet Sounds WOULD have had amazing vocals had Brian done them on his own. I did not state they would have been better. The interplay of different voices is interesting even when some of those voices are better than some others. The close relationship of most of the band probably helped too.

I find it more than slightly irritating that you read into my words something that wasn't there and even when I point that out, try to make out that was what I implied. NO, it was what you inferred - incorrectly as it happens. I think sometimes Brian does it better. I think Carl did God Only Knows better than Brian, for example. I prefer Brian on Add Some Music, for another example. Al made a great job of Cottonfields. Mike's BVs were very good on many songs.

And, yes, Brian can sing bass vocals when he chooses. Brian had a pretty good range.  Just that it isn't something Brian did very often.

[SMiLE Brian]

Quite the bullying of Ang Jones going on....

[Ang Jones]

Quite the bullying of Ang Jones going on....

Thanks SMiLE Brian - but not to worry. I know there's an answer (and I usually make one!)!  

What makes me smile (a trifle sarcastically I must admit) is that He Who Knows It All is so determined to disagree with me that even when I post that Mike had a deeper voice, emphasising something he could do well, AGD has to remind me that Brian could sing bass vocals too.

[guitarfool2002]

If you want to hear Brian's bass vocals on full display, listen to "The Right Time" from NPP - That's BW doing the low bass during the vocal chorus break. Great part.

There could also be a track-by-track rundown of the Pet Sounds vocal stacks and it might be surprising to see whose vocals are and aren't in the mix. Or just listen to the sessions vocal-only disc and use your ears.

[SMiLE Brian]

Quite the bullying of Ang Jones going on....

Thanks SMiLE Brian - but not to worry. I know there's an answer! 

They are going to lose the fight.

[rab2591]

Quite the bullying of Ang Jones going on....

Quite unnecessary too, but not surprising to see such petulant nitpicking from the usual crowd.

Keep up the great posting, Ang.

[Ang Jones]

If you want to hear Brian's bass vocals on full display, listen to "The Right Time" from NPP - That's BW doing the low bass during the vocal chorus break. Great part.

There could also be a track-by-track rundown of the Pet Sounds vocal stacks and it might be surprising to see whose vocals are and aren't in the mix. Or just listen to the sessions vocal-only disc and use your ears.

Thanks guitarfool - totally in agreement about The Right Time. Every time I hear Brian's vocal on this I immediately smile.

An interesting comment about  Pet Sounds too. I often listen to the vocals only disc of Pet Sounds - Brian has a versatility that is quite extraordinary and I cannot always tell who is singing.

[Ang Jones]

And thanks again to SmileBrian and rab2591 for the support. I enjoy your posts too!

[filledeplage]

Quite the bullying of Ang Jones going on....

Thanks SMiLE Brian - but not to worry. I know there's an answer! 

They are going to lose the fight.

Smile Brian - Ang is not being bullied.  She asserted positions that are both erroneous and ridiculous, in my opinion.  And these posts of yours are "all about fighting."  There is no need for this board to become more polarized.  

Brian has a solo Pet Sounds. And The Beach Boys have a joint effort Pet Sounds, and that one is the one of which legends have been made.  

At the time of release it required time to be accepted and digested.  Maybe it went over bigger in the UK. Well, we were a nation at war.  

The Beach Boys in part were modeled on The Four Freshmen and barbershop quartet harmony.  Brian was part of a band, and not a solo artist, at the time of Pet Sounds.  This is not revisionist history.  Brian was "in service to" The Beach Boys, as a whole, as a composer.  The band wasn't off twiddling their thumbs.  They were keeping the music out there.  All of the music.

The BRI group shall decide the future of whether or not there will be a PS 50 tour.  And not me, you or Ang.  

[guitarfool2002]

And while Ang argues that C50 was not a bona fide effort, or doesn't agree with what happened post-reunion, notwithstanding the apparently conflicting press releases, the fact remains that there were contractual obligations in place that the Touring Band had to perform on.  

There was a huge outcry when Brian cancelled the UK tour.  Lots of very disappointed fans.  The Touring Band avoided that by honoring those contractual obligations.  They may have remembered an ill-fated cancelled tour in 1968. I surely remember.

What were those obligations that were in place while C50 was happening? If I recall there was a breakdown of Mike's bookings for immediately following the final UK shows, and there was one show on the books for Chile and another planned for Argentina and both were cancelled, there was the Nutty Jerry's debacle which Nutty Jerry's canceled due to the which-band-is-it confusion, and I believe it was either a day or two after flying back from the UK that the touring band did a charity gig featuring John Stamos in California. After that, for the rest of 2012 the band played just over a half-dozen shows in those final three months. Into January/February 2013 until the end of March, they did a combined half-dozen shows until they traveled to Asia, end of March 2013.

So in roughly 6 months time end of 2012 into 2013, there were about a dozen shows "on the books". The two which fans knew about due to news reports during C50 that caused something of an issue with booking them during C50 and confusions about the names and all of that - Nutty Jerry's and Chile/Argentina - were canceled anyway.

Whatever we want to discuss as far as what could have been done or why things were done or whatever else, the schedule shows that in the 6 months or so following C50 the schedule wasn't exactly packed with contractual obligations. And I remember there was even some confusion about that charity gig with Stamos in California they played as soon as they got back from the UK, that was discussed on this board as it happened.

As far as "lots of very disappointed fans", why did the BB's cancel their performance in Israel? I don't believe an explanation was ever given. Why did they pull out of the "Summernites Cruise" which would have happened last weekend? There were a lot of disappointed fans who thought they'd be seeing the band at that event, too, and I don't think I've seen a reason given for the cancellation. Things happen.

[harrisonjon]

I assume that Brian gave leads to other band members because he felt their ranges and timbres would put the songs over better: e.g. Carl on GOK.

I also assume that multitracked stacked vocals are not as moving as six guys around the same microphone

[guitarfool2002]

I assume that Brian gave leads to other band members because he felt their ranges would put the songs over better: e.g. Carl on GOK.

I also assume that multitracked stacked vocals are not as moving as six guys around the same microphone

Have you heard the SOT Wouldn't It Be Nice vocal overdubbing tracks? Apart from the obvious lines sung by other Beach Boys, a larger portion than some realize of that track's vocals are Brian overdubbing.

[Ang Jones]

Quite the bullying of Ang Jones going on....

Thanks SMiLE Brian - but not to worry. I know there's an answer! 

They are going to lose the fight.

Smile Brian - Ang is not being bullied.  She asserted positions that are both erroneous and ridiculous, in my opinion.  And these posts of yours are "all about fighting."  There is no need for this board to become more polarized.  

Brian has a solo Pet Sounds. And The Beach Boys have a joint effort Pet Sounds, and that one is the one of which legends have been made.  

At the time of release it required time to be accepted and digested.  Maybe it went over bigger in the UK. Well, we were a nation at war.  

The Beach Boys in part were modeled on The Four Freshmen and barbershop quartet harmony.  Brian was part of a band, and not a solo artist, at the time of Pet Sounds.  This is not revisionist history.  Brian was "in service to" The Beach Boys, as a whole, as a composer.  The band wasn't off twiddling their thumbs.  They were keeping the music out there.  All of the music.

The BRI group shall decide the future of whether or not there will be a PS 50 tour.  And not me, you or Ang.  

What erroneous and ridiculous positions? AGD took it upon himself to misrepresent what I had written. The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds was written at a time when the guys were young men. Of course it is completely unfair to compare to a record done when Brian was in his 60s.

As for the comment of the US being a nation at war when Pet Sounds was released, they seemed to be enjoying Beatles' records well enough.

Of course whether there is a reunion is not the decision of those posting here - just an obsession of some of them, who though they compare Brian's solo work unfavourably to his earlier work with the Beach Boys still seem to think that as if by magic, if he returned to the fold, time would suddenly go into reverse and all of his fans would feel young again.

[filledeplage]

Quite the bullying of Ang Jones going on....

Thanks SMiLE Brian - but not to worry. I know there's an answer! 

They are going to lose the fight.

Smile Brian - Ang is not being bullied.  She asserted positions that are both erroneous and ridiculous, in my opinion.  And these posts of yours are "all about fighting."  There is no need for this board to become more polarized.  

Brian has a solo Pet Sounds. And The Beach Boys have a joint effort Pet Sounds, and that one is the one of which legends have been made.  

At the time of release it required time to be accepted and digested.  Maybe it went over bigger in the UK. Well, we were a nation at war.  

The Beach Boys in part were modeled on The Four Freshmen and barbershop quartet harmony.  Brian was part of a band, and not a solo artist, at the time of Pet Sounds.  This is not revisionist history.  Brian was "in service to" The Beach Boys, as a whole, as a composer.  The band wasn't off twiddling their thumbs.  They were keeping the music out there.  All of the music.

The BRI group shall decide the future of whether or not there will be a PS 50 tour.  And not me, you or Ang.  

What erroneous and ridiculous positions? AGD took it upon himself to misrepresent what I had written. The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds was written at a time when the guys were young men. Of course it is completely unfair to compare to a record done when Brian was in his 60s.

As for the comment of the US being a nation at war when Pet Sounds was released, they seemed to be enjoying Beatles' records well enough.

Of course whether there is a reunion is not the decision of those posting here - just an obsession of some of them, who though they compare Brian's solo work unfavourably to his earlier work with the Beach Boys still seem to think that as if by magic, if he returned to the fold, time would suddenly go into reverse and all of his fans would feel young again.

First - Brian has a solo Pet Sounds.

Second - The Beach Boys were thrown under the bus by Capitol when The Beatles landed. 

Third - being a nation at war, protest music emerged as a force to be reckoned with and compete with. Carl was in the midst of draft problems.

Fourth - Andrew does his own thing.

Fifth - ageism is creeping into this discussion.  It connotes that some singers/members should be put out to pasture. And I'd disagree with the pejorative term "obsession" but prefer the term "passionate" -  life is indeed a dull journey without a lively and quality interest.  Music and art fit that bill. Society is better for it.

And, I'm not obsessed with a reunion just looking at issues as dispassionately as possible. 

I haven't "picked a team"  It's all good, as far as I'm concerned.  But there are those, here, who want a division between "camps" and I fail to see the point.  Each and every band has it's own identity and strengths.

[KDS]

I look at this thread, and I see people expressing their opinions about music. 

I don't see anything malicious, so I'm not sure where the bullying accusation comes from. 

[SMiLE Brian]

M&B were barely on pet sounds in way that BW doesn't need them for a tour of the album. Plus add all the baggage of them being dicks to BW and its a no brainier. BW's 2015  band with Al  Jardine is all that is needed to recreate the lush studio sounds.

[KDS]

M&B were barely on pet sounds in way that BW doesn't need them for a tour of the album. Plus add all the baggage of them being dicks to BW and its a no brainier. BW's 2015  band with Al  Jardine is all that is needed to recreate the lush studio sounds.

I'd be fine with a Brian Wilson Pet Sounds Tour with Al on board for the 50th Anniversary of Pet Sounds.   

While I don't want to diminish the contributions of Mike Love or Bruce Johnston to The Beach Boys, I don't think that a reunion at this point would really serve either camp. 

[SMiLE Brian]

Agreed, the gap between the two camps is such a problem that the current arrangement  of two groups is best for all.

[filledeplage]

And while Ang argues that C50 was not a bona fide effort, or doesn't agree with what happened post-reunion, notwithstanding the apparently conflicting press releases, the fact remains that there were contractual obligations in place that the Touring Band had to perform on.  

There was a huge outcry when Brian cancelled the UK tour.  Lots of very disappointed fans.  The Touring Band avoided that by honoring those contractual obligations.  They may have remembered an ill-fated cancelled tour in 1968. I surely remember.

What were those obligations that were in place while C50 was happening? If I recall there was a breakdown of Mike's bookings for immediately following the final UK shows, and there was one show on the books for Chile and another planned for Argentina and both were cancelled, there was the Nutty Jerry's debacle which Nutty Jerry's canceled due to the which-band-is-it confusion, and I believe it was either a day or two after flying back from the UK that the touring band did a charity gig featuring John Stamos in California. After that, for the rest of 2012 the band played just over a half-dozen shows in those final three months. Into January/February 2013 until the end of March, they did a combined half-dozen shows until they traveled to Asia, end of March 2013.

So in roughly 6 months time end of 2012 into 2013, there were about a dozen shows "on the books". The two which fans knew about due to news reports during C50 that caused something of an issue with booking them during C50 and confusions about the names and all of that - Nutty Jerry's and Chile/Argentina - were canceled anyway.

Whatever we want to discuss as far as what could have been done or why things were done or whatever else, the schedule shows that in the 6 months or so following C50 the schedule wasn't exactly packed with contractual obligations. And I remember there was even some confusion about that charity gig with Stamos in California they played as soon as they got back from the UK, that was discussed on this board as it happened.

As far as "lots of very disappointed fans", why did the BB's cancel their performance in Israel? I don't believe an explanation was ever given. Why did they pull out of the "Summernites Cruise" which would have happened last weekend? There were a lot of disappointed fans who thought they'd be seeing the band at that event, too, and I don't think I've seen a reason given for the cancellation. Things happen.

GF - my sidelines observation is that the band seems to return for "annual gigs" so that would be booking out a year in advance.  Eg. Some casino in Mississippi seems to book them every Columbus weekend.  I don't do their booking, so I don't know.  I vaguely remember the Nutty Jerry's thing.  Some local promoters use very outdated photos "on their own" while selling tix.  

IIRC, Israel was cancelled and it was during some heavy bombing. Could it have been for safety?  I don't know.  Some friends were in Israel at the time and told me it was not a safe time.

There could be some clause which releases them for "force majeure." It is a common clause in contacts that frees both parties from liability or obligation when extraordinarily events or circumstances beyond the control of the parties, such as war, strike, riot, crime, or under an "Act of God" clause such as a hurricane, flooding, earthquake, volcanic eruption.

But, if the annual booking theory could be correct and they started planning in December of 2011, those "standing appointments" for October were likely in place.  I'm not privy to their schedule and don't represent that I do.

From what I've read that event (if we are taking about the same gig) was canceled months prior.

And, I've "felt the pain" of a cancelled tour. 1968 - a crushed teenager!  

[filledeplage]

Agreed, the gap between the two camps is such a problem that the current arrangement  of two groups is best for all.

Do you give them permission to reunite? 

[Jim V.]

Of course whether there is a reunion is not the decision of those posting here - just an obsession of some of them, who though they compare Brian's solo work unfavourably to his earlier work with the Beach Boys still seem to think that as if by magic, if he returned to the fold, time would suddenly go into reverse and all of his fans would feel young again.

The f*** are you on about? It has nothing to do with feeling young again. Some of us like hearing Mike Love, Al Jardine and Bruce Johnston on a Brian Wilson written song. Simply put. I like listening to "Spring Vacation" or "Beaches In Mind" more than "Good Kind of Love" and maybe it's because I'm hypnotized. Or maybe it's because I like them singing together. That they can elevate the material they are working on a step higher.

[HeyJude]

Referencing the above, the 2012 reunion did not end because Mike had "contractual obligations" for his own touring band that he *had* to attend to.

The opposite is true. He had other dates booked because the reunion ended. He chose to end the reunion and book other dates (that his dates were scheduled before C50 was over doesn't matter; and in fact if anything speaks more strongly to Mike choosing before the reunion even ended that he was done with it).

This of course doesn't even speak to the idea that if somehow someone somewhere had been forcing Mike to book and perform previously-scheduled dates for his own band, he could have done those gigs and then gone back to the reunion lineup. This also doesn't even speak to the myriad of other solutions that were possible (buying the shows off, rescheduling them, re-booking them as C50 shows, etc.)

It's laughable that anyone can argue that the end of the reunion was *caused* by contractual obligations Mike had to attend to with his own band, in light of the fact that three years later Mike has still not gone back to the reunion. It was a choice, and a choice made by Mike. He quit The Beach Boys and went back to his own band. That's fine, but he has to own that decision (which he actually has more than some of his supporters), and fans and spectators have to accept that.

[Ang Jones]

Let me get this straight. I am not ageist - it would be daft at my age! However, I cannot imagine why a reunion is so important other than for nostalgic reasons - the Beach Boys sounded great together once, a very long time ago, but things have changed. Brian, Al and Blondie have been touring together - I can't see how Mike and Bruce would make that vast a  qualitative difference to the vocals and instrumentally the only difference would be Bruce's piano playing. I'm sure few of us would be able to pick out Mike's tambourine from dozens of other musicians.

Filledeplage's claim that I had written that the C50 wasn't a bona fide effort was also incorrect. I wrote that the teamwork had lasted for a certain time but that a team was only as strong as its weakest link.

As for Capitol throwing the Beach Boys under the bus , surely were that the reason for the relative lack of success  of Pet Sounds in America, the same would be true in the UK.

Those who want the reunion want it but  'wouldn't it be nice' if we could occasionally have a discussion without this subject being brought up yet again?  Well, it would be nice for me.

[KDS]

Let me get this straight. I am not ageist - it would be daft at my age! However, I cannot imagine why a reunion is so important other than for nostalgic reasons - the Beach Boys sounded great together once, a very long time ago, but things have changed. Brian, Al and Blondie have been touring together - I can't see how Mike and Bruce would make that vast a  qualitative difference to the vocals and instrumentally the only difference would be Bruce's piano playing. I'm sure few of us would be able to pick out Mike's tambourine from dozens of other musicians.

Filledeplage's claim that I had written that the C50 wasn't a bona fide effort was also incorrect. I wrote that the teamwork had lasted for a certain time but that a team was only as strong as its weakest link.

As for Capitol throwing the Beach Boys under the bus , surely were that the reason for the relative lack of success  of Pet Sounds in America, the same would be true in the UK.

Those who want the reunion want it but  'wouldn't it be nice' if we could occasionally have a discussion without this subject being brought up yet again?  Well, it would be nice for me.

Yes, I'm with you on that one Ang.  The reunion ended almost three years ago.  Both camps are doing well these days.  It's all good. 

[Wirestone]

I assume that Brian gave leads to other band members because he felt their ranges would put the songs over better: e.g. Carl on GOK.

I also assume that multitracked stacked vocals are not as moving as six guys around the same microphone

Have you heard the SOT Wouldn't It Be Nice vocal overdubbing tracks? Apart from the obvious lines sung by other Beach Boys, a larger portion than some realize of that track's vocals are Brian overdubbing.

And I don't think folks understand that TWGMTR is exactly the same. It's mostly Brian and Jeff singing backgrounds -- at least 80 percent, if not 90. The other guys are on it sparingly, and not at all in certain tracks.

NPP, with Brian, Al, Matt and Blondie actually singing background parts together on multiple tracks, has far more of a BB harmony sound than the previous record. So if you're simply concerned with the BB blend, Brian has you covered.