The Four Seasons

[TMinthePM]

I've stumbled into an extended acquaintance with the Four Seasons this past month or so. In truth I haven't given them a thought since sometime in the 60's. Dougie Pendrell's big brother Frankie turned us on to the two greatest hits packages - the gold one and the black one.

Wow! These guys were good on every level - writing, performing, production.

And I think there was a friendly rivalry for awhile with the Beach Boys, each band delivering a good-natured put down of the other in a couple of tunes.

Of course Frankie Valli's falsetto easily matched Brian Wilson's, although each distinctly flavored East/West coasts.

But the Seasons don't seem to have been album oriented the way the Beach Boys were, except maybe for Ragdoll and Genuine Imitation Life. I'm probably mistaken on that point, but haven't the time to Google a discography.

Anyway, I only bring it to the attention of all here because I did stumble upon a reference to some sort of BB/Seasons coproduction in the 80's.

Can anyone help me with this?

[Tony S]

I had the opportunity to meet Tommy DeVito of the Seasons s few times at a friends house a few short years ago. He was in from Vegas. He was best friends with one of her cousins from years ago. He didn't speak too well anymore, mostly a quiet rasp, and told me "his pipes were gone" but he gave me a signed CD of Italian guitar music he had just made. Pretty cool. It was fascinating to listen to the stories he told us about the Season's, from their salad days onward. He didn't have a lot of positive things to say about Frankie, but in general it was really interesting. As fate would have it, my wife worked for many years with Bob Gaudio's son, and never realized it, until he gave us 2cd row tickets to Jersey Boys a few years ago. When I asked her where she got them, she said from her friend at work Shannon Gaudio. I put it together. He also didn't have a lot of positive things to say interestingly, about the Seasons personally. I think they were in the shadows a lot until Jersey Boys, never really concentrating on albums, but great singles. I'm a big fan of their music, most of which is brilliant from their 60's days. It's was really cool to meet Tommy and Shannon, and get some inside scoop about this often overlooked band.

[ArchStanton]

The Beach Boys and Four Seasons song is called "East Meets West." I don't know much about it, but to me it's every bit as gimmicky as the title implies, with lyrics like "from the nights in Hollywood, to the lights on Broadway". I could see it serving as a montage song for an 80s movie with a young couple from different coasts going on dates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ12pAM9Ujc

[ArchStanton]

Ha, here's the Four Seasons "diss record" of the Beach Boys called "No Surfin' Today". Biggie and 2Pac had nothing on these guys!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xRmb3wtbNA

Apparently the Beach Boys made a dig at the Seasons on "Surfer's Rule" which I have never noticed. They sing "Four Seasons you'd better believe it" at the end of the song while Brian does the falsetto to "Walk Like a Man". Interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAf7qgqG7TQ

Also, here's a better video of "East Meets West" that's at least a little interesting to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6ce4pff8jY

[D Cunningham]

Always liked the song "Put a Little Away" --Bob G. and the Seasons in the disco era.
Bob G. was brilliant.

Something liberating and peaceful about that chorus ("put a little away..."), even
as it is such a simple cadence --and with nice 4S/BB harmony backgrounds.


 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpiczf33qTQ&index=1&list=RDvpiczf33qTQ

[Lee Marshall]

I was a BIG 4 Seasons fan when I was a kid.  The Beach Boys...and then slowly...around Rubber Soul...The Beatles supplanted them.  I kept up with them up to and including Genuine Imitation Life Gazette...which basically came with a kind of fold-out album...or 'paged' cover...which turned out to be a mock-up of a newspaper.  The 'standings' in the 'sports section' listed the 4 Seasons in FIRST PLACE and the Beach Boys in the Cellar/dead last which I thought was a humorous thing to do...in lieu of No Surfin Today and Surfer's Rule.

[My gawd I only JUST got 'IT' right blinkin' now.  It wasn't Surfer's Rule as in "these are OUR rules Frankie...follow them shorty"...it was "WE RULE...you suck".  Man I'm a dolt!!! ]

Anyway...the story portrayed in the Jersey Boys movie which I watched a couple of months ago [and movies are hardly the authoritative source for accurate information] suggests that Devito was INSTRUMENTAL in putting the group together.  He basically noticed Frankie, heard the talent and potential, slowly nurtured Frankie and bought him along...and he found Gaudio and somewhat begrudgingly allowed  him to come into the group as they needed a composer/writer and Bob had co-written some novelty thing like Short Shorts was it?  Bob Crewe had something to do with Gaudio's inclusion as well I think. [I'm old...and my memory is crappy]   He had them singing back-ups for other artists til he felt they were ready...especially material-wise.

Problem was that Devito was a gambler...a heavy gambler with a problem according to the movie...and he gambled the group into serious debt with the WRONG people... ...if ya know what I mean .  He basically bet himself OUT of the very group he more or less formed.  Doubtless if any of that is even close to true that he'd have much good to say about Frankie.  Valli and Gaudio were allies...at least creatively...and Tommy knew it.  So?  He wasn't a Bob fan either.

I enjoyed the movie.  How accurate it is...I don't know.  The 4th 'season' Nick Massi just blew up finally, they say, and quit the group because he'd had WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH of Tommy and his slovenly ways.  They were roommates and bandmates in a pre Four Seasons group, I believe, before Valli and Gaudio came along.

They had plenty of lame names along the way.  The 4 Lovers being the last loser name.  They got the 4 Seasons off the flashing sign of a bowling alley which had told them to take a hike when they went there looking for a 'gig'.  Couple the new group name and the Gaudio/Crewe song Sherry together and years of paying their dues made Tommy, Frankie and the boys overnight sensations.

I guess every group has their fights.  Our heroes, The Fabs, did you read Keith's book...and his take on Mick?...and the 4 Seasons.

[wilsonart1]

If I remember  on Genuine Imation life Gazette the Beach Boy standings had them with 1 tie and it was protested. Funny, yes funny!

[drbeachboy]

Tommy left the group quite a bit later than what the movie indicates. I believe he left in 1970 just before the album Half & Half was released.

[Lee Marshall]

The movie shows them all getting back together for their 'inducement' into the Hall of Fame...and [only in the movies] performing like they hadn't missed a beat.  Anything like THAT happen Doc?

[especially considering that Frankie's hearing was shot by then and he supposedly couldn't hear well enough to sing the way he used to.]

[drbeachboy]

The movie shows them all getting back together for their 'inducement' into the Hall of Fame...and [only in the movies] performing like they hadn't missed a beat.  Anything like THAT happen Doc?

[especially considering that Frankie's hearing was shot by then and he supposedly couldn't hear well enough to sing the way he used to.]

Well, I know Frankie's hearing problem started in the mid-70's and is partly the reason why he took a lower profile on the two Warner albums. I think he had the problem corrected in the late 70's or early 80's, but not absolutely sure. Always loved their hits. I saw them twice, once in 1964 on Steel Pier in Atlantic City (my very first concert when I was six years old), then again in 1976 at the Arizona State Fair. Both shows were terrific, as I recall.

[Lee Marshall]

I saw him...w/o the 4 Seasons [or at least the originals] performing at a hotel out near the airport in Toronto along with co-star Wilson Pickett somewhere in the vicinity of 1985.  He was on the money THAT night for sure.  [So too was Wilson]

[Gerry]

Couple of observations about the Four Seasons: didn't they actually sell more records then the BB's in the '60's and have more #1 singles. They seldom get mentioned in any doc's about '60's music, as if the BB's were the only competition the British Invasion had. Also, I always felt that Brian had a much prettier and truer falsetto then Valli. Frankie's always seemed forced to me. What I have heard of the Season's Christmas is terrible.

[bgas]

Couple of fact checking sites on the Jersey Boys movie, one of which also mentions their return to the R&R Hal of Fame: 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/06/20/jersey_boys_accuracy_fact_checking_clint_eastwood_s_four_seasons_biopic.html

http://www.historyvshollywood.com/reelfaces/jersey-boys/

What I find interesting is Devito's dispute of the accounts on his leaving the group, yet it seems to me if it was truly not accurate it would have been an easy lawsuit win to have it removed from the stageplays AND the Movie

[Gerry]

That should be Season's Christmas album. Sorry.

[bgas]

That should be Season's Christmas album. Sorry.

Ooohhh, to be technical, it should really be >  Four Seasons Christmas Album<  ( since the group had more than one Season and then you wouldn't need the apostrophe) 

[Gerry]

Gosh you are so helpful.I should have you screen all my posts .

[bgas]

Gosh you are so helpful.I should have you screen all my posts .

  I'm here a lot, if you want  to send them to me before you post

[Lee Marshall]

Yes Gerry...You're right.  The 4 Seasons continued to give a VERY STRONG account of themselves in the face of the British Invasion...and beyond.  They did at least as well as the Beach Boys in terms of chart success really.  I think Frankie's voice was WAY stronger than Brian's and his range was certainly wider.  Carl eventually developed a STRONG singing voice as well.  The Beach Boys were more about harmony and double tracking their lead voices.  They were singers...not belters.  Frankie could do both...the latter better than everyone but Carl.

bgas...highly unlikely that Tommy D would admit to peein' in the hotel room sinks and to seldom changing his underwear.  Mind you...as a 'ladies' man' 'vintage' underwear is a LOT less of a help and WAY more of a hindrance one who think.

And Frankie Valli is now what?....81 years old.  Wow!!!  81.  Old fart.

[Cyncie]

I love The Four Seasons, but I have to say that I find Frankie Valli's falsetto to be more strident than Brian's. It works for their songs, so that's okay. But, just considering the falsetto alone, I much prefer Brian's clear, pure tone.

[bgas]

bgas...highly unlikely that Tommy D would admit to peein' in the hotel room sinks and to seldom changing his underwear.  

Oh sure, I agree with that, I meant more the part of his >choosing to leave the group< rather than being forced out on account of his gambling/embezzling of group funds as it appeared

Oh, By the way!  For anyone who hasn't, the movie version is decent, but if you get a chance to see the touring stageplay it's great!! 

[Lee Marshall]

I love The Four Seasons, but I have to say that I find Frankie Valli's falsetto to be more strident than Brian's. It works for their songs, so that's okay. But, just considering the falsetto alone, I much prefer Brian's clear, pure tone.

Me too.  Brian's is more of a singing voice...sweeter, cleaner...and far more romantic.  Carl's too.  Lou Christie was trying to capture Frankie's "sound".  Brian wasn't.

[PS]

The Bobs, Crewe and Gaudio, made a great composing and production team, and the sound of those early recordings are explosive - and a great deal of that sound has to do with their version of Hal Blaine, the late, great session drummer, Buddy Saltzman.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/legendary-session-drummer-buddy-saltzman-rip.284915/

I found No Surfing Today on the flip of Dawn in my sister's 45 rpm box, and have been haunted by it ever since...

[Lee Marshall]

The Bobs, Crewe and Gaudio, made a great composing and production team, and the sound of those early recordings are explosive - and a great deal of that sound has to do with their version of Hal Blaine, the late, great session drummer, Buddy Saltzman.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/legendary-session-drummer-buddy-saltzman-rip.284915/

I found No Surfing Today on the flip of Dawn in my sister's 45 rpm box, and have been haunted by it ever since...

Ya...I owned Dawn...and there it was.  Up in Canada, at least, the 4 Seasosn releases came out on several different lablels.  It was weird.  Some on Phillips.  Some on Reo.  Some on Pickwick I think?  And it kept happening.  Their drum sound POUNDED the Blaine/Brian thing.  Just ate it for breakfast, lunch and dinner.  Ol' Buddy was a GREAT session drummer...as was the person who mic'd and recorded that SOUND great.

bgas...the Vegas thing is likely a grey area.  I'm thinkin' when the 'made' guys tell you you're leavin' the band...you're leavin'.  And you're not asking them if you can at least finish the tour.  He owed them a pant-load of dough.  He's lucky he wasn't pushin' up the plankton.  Daisies would have been too good for him.

[Gerry]

I wonder what was worse, dealing with the mafia or dealing with Murry?

[Jon Stebbins]

Yes Gerry...You're right.  The 4 Seasons continued to give a VERY STRONG account of themselves in the face of the British Invasion...and beyond.  They did at least as well as the Beach Boys in terms of chart success really.  

What people miss when they compare Four Seasons to Beach Boys in record sales is that the Beach Boys, along with the Beatles, turned the teen/rock sales market from what had historically been a singles oriented market, to an album oriented market. Beginning in '63 and '64 kids started buying albums in big numbers and Surfin USA, All Summer Long, Beach Boys Concert etc... were among the strongest sellers in the US. The Beach Boys sold millions upon millions more LP's than the Four Seasons who never really made the transition to being a major player in the LP market, and therefore they were kind of left behind.