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Author Topic: How to get that 1965-1966 BW bass sound???  (Read 2783 times)
37!ws
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« on: January 27, 2015, 12:16:45 PM »

Okay, so this isn't one of those "here's my cover of ______" or "here's a new song I wrote that sounds like Brian" posts, so I apologize, but...

How does one get that plucky sound that (assumingly) Carol Kaye made on the Beach Boys' recordings?? You can clearly hear that the bass string is plucked with a pick, and it sounds almost staccato except there is some resonance to it...it's especially noticeable on "The Little Girl I Once Knew."

I've tried different-sized flat picks, different EQ settings, different gain settings, resting the bottom of my palm on the strings, etc., but no matter what I do, it just sounds like any ol' bass playing...
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2015, 12:26:29 PM »

Definitely a guitar pick is being used, and this is just a guess but could it also be it sounds that way because the bass tracks are doubled giving it a fatter sound?
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2015, 12:53:53 PM »

Close, 150ms delay on the track, I use it sometimes!
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2015, 12:55:04 PM »

This is a great topic and one that I remember being discussed at some length previously.  Might be worth discussing in the main forum; guitarfool is fantastic on topics like this, and others such as DonnyL.
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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2015, 01:07:21 PM »

This is a great question, I know we've discussed this before but I want to offer some suggestions here as well. I know some of us made some suggestions that were pretty good so I'd also recommend searching the archives, I can't remember where those discussions are posted!

I'll say similar recommendations on various sources for "getting that tone" assume everyone has the exact equipment as on the original tracks, guitars/amps/effects, etc. I'd rather go with the tools available, or more easily and readily available.

The bass itself: Do you have a Fender style bass? Carole and Ray Pohlman had Fender P-Basses on most of those tracks, Joe Osborn had a Jazz Bass. I mention them because all three were known for being pick players, that was a key part of the sound. More plucky than, say, Jamerson on Motown tracks.

If you have a Fender style bass, start by having the tone knobs all the way up. I also always recorded bass with the volume at full - in other words, every control set to "10", full out. I think the tone of the bass comes out better that way.

Use a heavy pick. Anything lower than heavy doesn't work as well.

Palm mute. This is another key - although Carole for one would put masking tape at the bridge to mute, but sometimes for different reasons. I use a piece of foam which I cut to size and fit under the strings at the bridge, barely touching the strings. I do this to cut overtones and other noises to avoid when recording direct. Make the foam thicker and more of a deliberate "mute" for the extreme effect. But I would say if you're not palm muting with your picking hand resting on the bridge, it's not going to get the sound.

Amps: Do you have an actual bass amp, vintage/modern? Or do you run through a simulator like a Line 6 Pod type device? Or an amp modeler either on a DAW plug in or an iPhone/iRig type of setup?

If you have a modeling plug in or iRig type of setup, that's the easiest way to test this out.

Carole for one would run bass through a Fender tube guitar amp, I believe it was a Super Reverb. If you have an amp modeling program, try dialing up a Fender Twin guitar amp and run your bass through it. No real need to tweak the tone eq that much, just like a real Fender I'd dial in anywhere around 7-8 on bass, mid, and treble, and if needed you can roll off the treble knob and boost the bass.

Definitely add reverb, enough to be noticeable. On the actual amp, I'd start around 5 and add or roll off as necessary. Reverb on bass? It sounds crazy now, but try it out. That reverb helps give some of the "resonance" you mentioned, as the picked, muted note has no sustain but the reverb keeps the sound ringing after the initial attack.

Then for an added layer which is on those BB's tracks, put on a slapback tape echo effect. Set it like a rockabilly slapback, keep the delayed note close to the original, and adjust levels to suit. In this case, a little less volume on the echo'ed signal combined with the reverb adds even more resonance and depth to what is ultimately a dead note going in.

If you're trying to get the sound through a standard, solid state bass amp it can be do-able, but you really have to focus more on the guitar-like qualities and set the amp's eq that way. Modern bass amps at their most common settings are not designed to pump out that 60's tone we're trying to get. If possible go straight for a Fender tube amp simulation, or run it through a guitar amp to try it out.

Do NOT run bass through a vintage (or even a modern) tube guitar amp!  Smiley  While some may handle it, I learned the very hard and expensive way that vintage tube guitar amps like the one I tried it with are not set up to handle a thumping bass. It sounded great for a few minutes, then needed a few hundred worth of repair to fix what was blown out. The exception would be an old piggyback Bassman, or a vintage amp which has been modded to be able to handle bass versus guitar. That's just my take from experience, I'm sure you'll find many players who might disagree.

Fender style bass, tone and volume at 10 - palm mute - heavy pick - Fender tube-style guitar amp sound (or guitar amp in general) - reverb - slapback tape delay.

Give it a try and report back on the results! I'll adjust anything that doesn't work... Wink
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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2015, 01:33:03 PM »

In terms of equipment...a Fender Squier P-Bass (I'm not rich!) that came with a Squier bass amp....where I'll be using this thing basically I have to use whatever amp they have on hand...usually better than the cheap crap I use. Smiley

I do have a DigiTech RP300A effects thingy too, though, so I guess I could futz with that too....I'll try the masking tape!
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2015, 01:44:50 PM »

In terms of equipment...a Fender Squier P-Bass (I'm not rich!) that came with a Squier bass amp....where I'll be using this thing basically I have to use whatever amp they have on hand...usually better than the cheap crap I use. Smiley

I do have a DigiTech RP300A effects thingy too, though, so I guess I could futz with that too....I'll try the masking tape!

The Digitech RP300 has all the sounds you need!  Smiley  I know that line of effects, I have one of the 2-pedal versions and have had students who ran through the exact model you have.

There is an amp modeler in there, you can scroll through and set up a custom setting for yourself, then store it. There is a Fender Twin simulation, find a clean patch that uses the Twin setting. Turn off all effects except reverb and delay, sometimes Digitech went overboard with their presets.

Play your bass through what would be a "clean guitar" patch, with reverb and slapback delay. You can tweak all of those effects in the pedal. Use your bass, into that pedal with the Fender clean tone, into whatever bass amp you have to use. Adjust the bass amp's eq, and you can come really, really close to the tone you're looking for.

The RP300 and all its relatives have some very useable sounds in them, sometimes you just have to make them yourself! You should have everything you need in that one pedal. And if you don't have the manual (which is key because because the tweaking can be non-user-friendly), Digitech I think still has them all online as pdf's.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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