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Author Topic: Zo You Think You Can Dance  (Read 6767 times)
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andy
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« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2006, 02:37:41 PM »

Which players who went into the stands did not receive a penalty of any sort?


Fred Jones and Eddie Gill, both of whom went into the stands to separate the players from fans. But that's beside the point. Not everyone who went into the stands that night got what they deserved, and some were victims. Just a bad, misinformed opinion from someone that didn't see everything unfold.
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andy
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« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2006, 02:58:24 PM »

I researched it and found that my memory was faulty; only one player's suspension was reduced.  But even that makes me angry -- there was no excuse for that behavior, and for the players' union to even try to defend it in anyway was offensive.  This is also a league that suffers players choking coaches and other acts of extreme arrogance.

Again, another misinformed opinion from someone who didn't see the event unfold and doesn't understand the circumstances. First of all, Jermaine O'Neal never went into the stands. Second of all, he was defending one of his teammates who was being attacked by an unruly fan. This player had just undergone arthroscopic knee surgery and was still wearing a large brace to protect his knee, and Jermaine stopped that person from continuing to attack said player. And just so you know, that player had to retire because of his knee problems at the age of 24.

Also, the players union had EVERY right to appeal the suspension, for many reasons. The penalties handed down were completely inconsistent with past penalties for more severe actions. Do your research. No previous penalty (for fighting) had even half of the length that these suspensions did. Also, there is a less strict punishment level for first time offenders, and as of that point, several players who were suspended had NEVER been suspended. And to top that off, one player got charged with something that he did not do (entering the stands), and received an unruly suspension.



But that's okay. I mean, you have college football, the 'purest' sport that does not suffer from arrogance or disorderly conduct.

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Jeff Mason
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« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2006, 03:45:56 PM »

Define an action more severe than running into the stands.  There are security guards.  There is NO excuse for running into the stands.  The fans should be banned for life from the stands as well for inciting the event.  NO ONE came off well in that, and the NBA is so spiralling out of control in some ways that someone has to seize the reins.  The penalty IMO is not for fighting but for crossing the invisible line between the game and the fans.  To my knowledge that had not happened in years if ever. 
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Kirk Lowdermilk
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« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2006, 04:58:31 PM »

What about that gem of a human being Ty Cobb?

"Cobb vaulted the guardrail protecting the grandstand, stalked up 12 rows and began punching and kicking a heckler, tearing holes with his spikes and opening gashes around the man's ears and face.

Other spectators pleaded with Cobb, yelling that the man - who'd lost eight fingers in an industrial accident - had no hands.

"I don't care if he has no feet," Cobb replied."

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Charles LePage @ ComicList
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« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2006, 05:47:39 PM »

Kudos to Dwayne Wade for excellent service to the Heat.  Win or lose, the Heat are benefitting from one of the truly great ones.
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Charles LePage @ ComicList
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« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2006, 05:58:42 PM »

The penalty IMO is not for fighting but for crossing the invisible line between the game and the fans.  To my knowledge that had not happened in years if ever. 

The most recent example of an NBA player going into the stands and punching a fan came in February 1995, when Vernon Maxwell of the Houston Rockets pummeled a spectator in Portland. The league suspended him for 10 games and fined him $20,000.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1928540
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Jeff Mason
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« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2006, 06:16:55 PM »

Maybe it was inconsistent with past penalties, but past penalties are a joke. Only 10 games for attacking a fan?  That is ludicrous.  I guess that the union coudl argue that point, but the earlier guy got off easy IMO.
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Jonas
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« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2006, 03:57:37 PM »

GO HEAT!

as for that NBA incident regarding all those players...any player that set foot off the floor deserved a suspension for the whole season and then some. no excuses what-so-ever.
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andy
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« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2006, 05:04:57 PM »

Define an action more severe than running into the stands.  There are security guards.  There is NO excuse for running into the stands.  The fans should be banned for life from the stands as well for inciting the event.  NO ONE came off well in that, and the NBA is so spiralling out of control in some ways that someone has to seize the reins.  The penalty IMO is not for fighting but for crossing the invisible line between the game and the fans.  To my knowledge that had not happened in years if ever.

Let's see:

Having a fan hurl a beer bottle from 10 rows up and striking a fan/official/employee/player.
Having a fan stab someone in the middle of competition.
Having a fan attack the wife or a family member of a player.

I can go on, but it doesn't matter. You're right. There are security guards. They didn't do their job, and neither did the officiating crew at calming the situation down or ejecting Wallace. But either way, that line has been crossed so many freaking times I can't count. Charles points out one example, but there have been things in between then and many things before then. The severity of the penalty definitely sent the right message, but it was unwarranted in several players' cases and very inconsistent in the rest. Anyone can compare past and previous penalties for far worse infractions that got 5 times less suspension time and understand that the only ludicrous matter were the inflated suspensions. Anyone with a sense of mathematics should be able to comprehend that regardless of their personal beliefs. The league got their message across, and I'm as glad as any other basketball fan, but it was at the expense of several players, and more importantly, one team. All from an incident that should've been avoided by several league policies that were ignored.

And Joe, that's quite a blanket statement.
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Jeff Mason
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« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2006, 07:05:03 PM »

No one is excusing the fans.  Again, use video tape, find out who did what, and ban them from life from the arena and see if you can press charges.  Punish the wrongdoers.  But that still doesn't excuse going into the crowd -- two wrongs don't add up to one right.  At least we agree it needed to be punished severely, even if we don't agree as to how it got meted out.  Again, past suspensions have to be considered wimpy and insufficient, and there has to be SOME way of increasing the penalties.  10 games for going into the crowd and beating up a fan?  You think that was an adequate penalty?  At what point can a league admit it was too cushy and turn up the heat?  As long as it is consistently turned up for all teams and players.
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Jonas
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« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2006, 09:02:29 PM »

3D
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Jeff Mason
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« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2006, 04:50:05 AM »

Yeah, but your prediction was STILL wrong.  They were supposed to lose last night!
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« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2006, 07:25:37 AM »

i KNOW! I was off by one game, however I Did call Heat in 6 on another messageboard...Shrug
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« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2006, 10:32:51 AM »

No one is excusing the fans.  Again, use video tape, find out who did what, and ban them from life from the arena and see if you can press charges.  Punish the wrongdoers.  But that still doesn't excuse going into the crowd -- two wrongs don't add up to one right.  At least we agree it needed to be punished severely, even if we don't agree as to how it got meted out.  Again, past suspensions have to be considered wimpy and insufficient, and there has to be SOME way of increasing the penalties.  10 games for going into the crowd and beating up a fan?  You think that was an adequate penalty?  At what point can a league admit it was too cushy and turn up the heat?  As long as it is consistently turned up for all teams and players.

Not saying two wrongs make a right. The penalty was easily too severe, and there are so many factors that go into that. It isn't justifiable to randomly quintuple the length of a suspension for an action in the middle of a season. League sanctions occur every off-season, so if they wanted to make stricter penalties they could've done it then. On top of that the league is 4/7ths responsible for the brawl occurring by not following their own sanctions, yet only one team (that also happens to be 1/7th of the equation) was given 90% of the penalties. It's unfair just from that standpoint, nevermind the severity of the penalty. Even if you look at the players who were penalized you can see unfairness. Artest and Jackson do the same thing, yet one player gets a suspension over twice as long as the others? Give me a break. I can go on and on, but what's most damning is how it affected one team.
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Jeff Mason
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« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2006, 11:00:35 AM »

Now unequal suspensions I can agree are wrong -- both teams needed to share the load of the penalties, and both players needed the same length suspension.  As for changing in the middle of the season, who could have imagined such an outrageous event before it happened? 
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andy
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« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2006, 02:07:15 PM »

I think there were warnings. It was only a matter of time before the next incident; it'd been a couple of years in basketball, and baseball and football were both coming off of fan/player altercations. Rules in other sports were already changing in regards to alcohol consumption cutoff times and penalties for game interference. In basketball they weren't, and the security, especially in the Palace at Auburn Hills, was notoriously lax and unresponsive (you can read complaints by players throughout the league for the brawl happened) with fan incidents. Several other arenas were the same way.

The big difference is that the 'hype' surrounding the next possible fan/player sports incident had grown so much, especially after that baseball player broke that fan's nose by throwing a chair into the stands. After that it was just hyped to the point where the next event was going to draw huge suspensions, and it did.

A little digression..I'm all for changing rules that need to be changed, especially in terms of security. Unfortunately, security hasn't changed with several player/fan interactions just from this past year and is still not responsive enough. Even for penalties, but not to the degree that happened with a couple of players from that brawl, not to mention the complete wrongdoing by the league. If security isn't going to separate fans from players and vice-versa, who else physically capable of doing it but other players? And for that, suspensions shouldn't have been handed down.
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