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Author Topic: Was Dennis in the Wrong Group?  (Read 26709 times)
retrokid67
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« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2015, 04:54:19 PM »

Should also mention that at one point or another every member of The Beach Boys (With the exception of Blondie and Ricky, who were at the right place at the right time) was in the wrong group.

What group would Al be in otherwise? No offense to him personally, but it's not like he had the songwriting chops or household name brand of the Wilson's. Mike is largely talentless and lives off the brand name; no way hed ever want to be anything but a Beach Boy. I think everybody was held back and probably largely made miserable from the late '70s on. But I think Brian and Dennis are the only two who proved that they could have made it on their own if they had really set their minds to it. Carl did make two solo albums, but from what I've heard from just about every review I've seen is that they arent very good.

Some people are meant to go solo and others aren't.  Al definitely could've continued singing folk music with another group and Mike could've joined Jan and Dean.  The Beach Boys were/are considered a "rock group" but Dennis was the only one who really knew how to rock.  Carl was heavily influenced by Chuck Berry and was a great guitar player, but his stage presence wasn't anything compared to Dennis behind the drums.  And Brian just wanted to write symphonies.  It's been discussed in other threads how being a frontman just comes naturally to Mike and that Dennis needed more confidence if he was to take on that role (his jokes were better than Mike's though that's for sure).
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« Reply #76 on: January 15, 2015, 05:21:29 PM »

I wonder how the Beach Boys ever made it big with so many untalented members who couldn't rock.
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« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2015, 05:29:32 PM »

I wonder how the Beach Boys ever made it big with so many untalented members who couldn't rock.

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« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2015, 05:30:26 PM »

How is this still even a thread?
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« Reply #79 on: January 15, 2015, 05:38:49 PM »

I wonder how the Beach Boys ever made it big with so many untalented members who couldn't rock.

You are my new God and I appreciate your existence.

Look at clips like the TAMI show and tell me who was getting the crowd wild.  Listen to some interviews and tell me who got the most responses from the crowd.  Watch that 1974 New Years Eve special, did their performance leave you feeling excited?  Undecided 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 05:55:13 PM by retrokid67 » Logged

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« Reply #80 on: January 15, 2015, 05:57:06 PM »

I wonder how the Beach Boys ever made it big with so many untalented members who couldn't rock.

You are my new God and I appreciate your existence.

Look at clips like the TAMI show and tell me who was getting the crowd wild.  Listen to some interviews and tell me who got the most responses from the crowd.
Absolutely! Shame that Dennis couldn't be coaxed or eased in with being more out front. I'm sure that people would have rather seen him than the lovester who looked more like their dad. LOL
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« Reply #81 on: January 15, 2015, 06:01:05 PM »

I wonder how the Beach Boys ever made it big with so many untalented members who couldn't rock.

You are my new God and I appreciate your existence.

Look at clips like the TAMI show and tell me who was getting the crowd wild.  Listen to some interviews and tell me who got the most responses from the crowd.
Absolutely! Shame that Dennis couldn't be coaxed or eased in with being more out front. I'm sure that people would have rather seen him than the lovester who looked more like their dad. LOL

Ikr.  Ever stop to think why the camera panned on Dennis during Carl's guitar solos?
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« Reply #82 on: January 15, 2015, 06:03:23 PM »

I'm sure that people would have rather seen him than the lovester who looked more like their dad. LOL

LOL
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« Reply #83 on: January 15, 2015, 06:38:32 PM »

To be upfront, I don't think any of these people , individually, would have been in a band at all, if they hadn't formed the Beach Boys. Al and Brian were in college studying for degrees. Carl was still in high school with typical teen aspirations. Mike and Dennis were joining the blue collar rat race. But, if we're talking about post SMiLE potential for careers outside of the band, that's another discussion.

So, considering them separately, in reverse order of potential and purely in my own opinion:

Mike: To go solo, Mike would have needed to create a voice of his own, apart from The Beach Boys. I'm not sure he really cared about that as much as he wanted to keep the band afloat.  Mike seems to completely identify as a Beach Boy. To join another band, he would need to team up with someone who needs a hook writer who can front a group in his particular style. That might not have been a great fit for other bands. These days,  I don't think there's anything really "natural" about Mike's abilities as a frontman. He's very studied and rehearsed and he uses the same gestures and jokes in every show. In fact, when someone else is singing the lines he's used to delivering (as in C50) he STILL does the hand gestures! Is he comfortable up there? Sure. But, he's not spontaneous. His act has been in rehearsal for 50 years and that's how he wants it.  Mike may play around with solo projects and he may want people to think more highly of his talent, but he is definitely in the right band.

Al: Alan's primary outside musical interest was in folk music, and if he had wanted to leave the group to pursue joining up with the Kingston Trio or some such band,  I think he could have.  I doubt he'd still be performing with them now, since the Beach Boys have far outlived the folk music trend.  Unfortunately, I don't think he would have had a massive solo career outside of a folk music niche. Or, maybe children's albums, like Raffi. :D  So, Al probably could have sung in a folk group, but he's better of having been in the Beach Boys.

Carl: Well, we know Carl had the vocal chops for a solo career, but his attempt at it didn't really yield much. Once again, you have to bring something to the public that the band can't. You have to find your own style and message. Carl's attempts to do that didn't quite click. I do think Carl could have lent his voice and guitar to other songwriters, or collaborated with a partner to get a career going outside of the Beach Boys, but he didn't really pursue that. As far as joining another band… Yeah. I think he had a talent,  skill set and personality that would have worked in other bands.  Was Carl in the wrong band? No. Could he have gone solo? Maybe. Could he have joined another band? definitely.

Dennis: Based purely on talent,  Dennis definitely found his musical voice and could have done solo work. But, talent or no talent, you have to deliver the album, you have to deliver it on time,  and you have to show up for the gigs. That's the business side of show business. I always suspected that Brian's initial reluctance to include Dennis in the band was because Dennis hadn't shown real interest in music and wasn't dependable in other things. Along the line, he developed the music. Not so much the follow through. So, could he have developed a solo career? Yeah. If he had applied himself to it. Could he have joined another band? Probably… if they could depend on him. But, if he could have done all of that, his Beach Boys experience might not have been quite so contentious and he might not have been so unhappy in the first place.  Was Dennis in the wrong band? No. Few other bands would have hired a second drummer just in case he decided not to show for a gig. Could he have gone solo? Not long term. His own hedonistic nature was against it.   Dennis had the talent, but he lacked discipline. And discipline is just as important to success as talent, looks and heart.  

Brian: This is tricky. Brian actually has gone solo;  but, given the choice in the years immediately surrounding Pet Sounds and SMiLE, I don't think young Brian Wilson would have chosen to be a solo artist, at all. The talent was certainly there, but I think young Brian only really wanted to be a producer. I think he would have been very happy producing a variety of talent, including the Beach Boys, and singing when he needed his own voice on the track. Brian always seemed most interested in creating the sounds, not performing them. Of course, young Brian Wilson's success depends on a mentally healthy young Brian Wilson.  SMiLE or no SMiLE, I think Brian was headed for trouble all along.  But, given mental health,  could he have gone solo? As a producer, yes; but, he was never really comfortable enough on stage to become a solo performer. After his break down and long absence, Brian's had to go the solo route to get back in the game. But, I think, at heart, he's still a producer. Was he in the wrong band? No. Could he  have been successful outside of the group? Probably. But, only if he stayed healthy.

As I look at this, I have come to the conclusion that these guys were all in the right band. As frustrating as they all found it as some time or another,  The Beach Boys were the only band that would have put up with all their individual issues. Maybe that's why none of them have really left.
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« Reply #84 on: January 15, 2015, 07:05:42 PM »

I wonder how the Beach Boys ever made it big with so many untalented members who couldn't rock.

You are my new God and I appreciate your existence.

Look at clips like the TAMI show and tell me who was getting the crowd wild.  Listen to some interviews and tell me who got the most responses from the crowd.
Absolutely! Shame that Dennis couldn't be coaxed or eased in with being more out front. I'm sure that people would have rather seen him than the lovester who looked more like their dad. LOL

Look, maybe some of us want to have sex with both Dennis AND Mike.
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« Reply #85 on: January 15, 2015, 07:24:31 PM »

To be upfront, I don't think any of these people , individually, would have been in a band at all, if they hadn't formed the Beach Boys. Al and Brian were in college studying for degrees. Carl was still in high school with typical teen aspirations. Mike and Dennis were joining the blue collar rat race. But, if we're talking about post SMiLE potential for careers outside of the band, that's another discussion.

So, considering them separately, in reverse order of potential and purely in my own opinion:

Mike: To go solo, Mike would have needed to create a voice of his own, apart from The Beach Boys. I'm not sure he really cared about that as much as he wanted to keep the band afloat.  Mike seems to completely identify as a Beach Boy. To join another band, he would need to team up with someone who needs a hook writer who can front a group in his particular style. That might not have been a great fit for other bands. These days,  I don't think there's anything really "natural" about Mike's abilities as a frontman. He's very studied and rehearsed and he uses the same gestures and jokes in every show. In fact, when someone else is singing the lines he's used to delivering (as in C50) he STILL does the hand gestures! Is he comfortable up there? Sure. But, he's not spontaneous. His act has been in rehearsal for 50 years and that's how he wants it.  Mike may play around with solo projects and he may want people to think more highly of his talent, but he is definitely in the right band.

Al: Alan's primary outside musical interest was in folk music, and if he had wanted to leave the group to pursue joining up with the Kingston Trio or some such band,  I think he could have.  I doubt he'd still be performing with them now, since the Beach Boys have far outlived the folk music trend.  Unfortunately, I don't think he would have had a massive solo career outside of a folk music niche. Or, maybe children's albums, like Raffi. :D  So, Al probably could have sung in a folk group, but he's better of having been in the Beach Boys.

Carl: Well, we know Carl had the vocal chops for a solo career, but his attempt at it didn't really yield much. Once again, you have to bring something to the public that the band can't. You have to find your own style and message. Carl's attempts to do that didn't quite click. I do think Carl could have lent his voice and guitar to other songwriters, or collaborated with a partner to get a career going outside of the Beach Boys, but he didn't really pursue that. As far as joining another band… Yeah. I think he had a talent,  skill set and personality that would have worked in other bands.  Was Carl in the wrong band? No. Could he have gone solo? Maybe. Could he have joined another band? definitely.

Dennis: Based purely on talent,  Dennis definitely found his musical voice and could have done solo work. But, talent or no talent, you have to deliver the album, you have to deliver it on time,  and you have to show up for the gigs. That's the business side of show business. I always suspected that Brian's initial reluctance to include Dennis in the band was because Dennis hadn't shown real interest in music and wasn't dependable in other things. Along the line, he developed the music. Not so much the follow through. So, could he have developed a solo career? Yeah. If he had applied himself to it. Could he have joined another band? Probably… if they could depend on him. But, if he could have done all of that, his Beach Boys experience might not have been quite so contentious and he might not have been so unhappy in the first place.  Was Dennis in the wrong band? No. Few other bands would have hired a second drummer just in case he decided not to show for a gig. Could he have gone solo? Not long term. His own hedonistic nature was against it.   Dennis had the talent, but he lacked discipline. And discipline is just as important to success as talent, looks and heart.  

Brian: This is tricky. Brian actually has gone solo;  but, given the choice in the years immediately surrounding Pet Sounds and SMiLE, I don't think young Brian Wilson would have chosen to be a solo artist, at all. The talent was certainly there, but I think young Brian only really wanted to be a producer. I think he would have been very happy producing a variety of talent, including the Beach Boys, and singing when he needed his own voice on the track. Brian always seemed most interested in creating the sounds, not performing them. Of course, young Brian Wilson's success depends on a mentally healthy young Brian Wilson.  SMiLE or no SMiLE, I think Brian was headed for trouble all along.  But, given mental health,  could he have gone solo? As a producer, yes; but, he was never really comfortable enough on stage to become a solo performer. After his break down and long absence, Brian's had to go the solo route to get back in the game. But, I think, at heart, he's still a producer. Was he in the wrong band? No. Could he  have been successful outside of the group? Probably. But, only if he stayed healthy.

As I look at this, I have come to the conclusion that these guys were all in the right band. As frustrating as they all found it as some time or another,  The Beach Boys were the only band that would have put up with all their individual issues. Maybe that's why none of them have really left.

You just took me back with Raffi Cheesy
On topic: You have great insight, I appreciate your response.  This band is so interesting because they did a lot for the music industry together but yet there's so much stuff from them that we still haven't heard yet or songs (or albums) that didn't reach full potential.
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« Reply #86 on: January 15, 2015, 08:25:07 PM »

Every time I listen to "Silk Degrees" I think that Carl would have sounded great singing songs like that (Blue Eyed Soul).


Listening to things like "Baby Blue", " Love Surrounds Me", "Rainbows", and " Angel Come Home" make me think that Carl & Dennis had  the synergy to be a successful duo.
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« Reply #87 on: January 15, 2015, 09:17:13 PM »

Every time I listen to "Silk Degrees" I think that Carl would have sounded great singing songs like that (Blue Eyed Soul).


Listening to things like "Baby Blue", " Love Surrounds Me", "Rainbows", and " Angel Come Home" make me think that Carl & Dennis had  the synergy to be a successful duo.

I think they would've been awesome as a duo!  Denny's version of "Good Timin" has a lot of soul in it, they could've both sang it together.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 09:19:59 PM by retrokid67 » Logged

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« Reply #88 on: January 16, 2015, 04:03:24 AM »

Should also mention that at one point or another every member of The Beach Boys (With the exception of Blondie and Ricky, who were at the right place at the right time) was in the wrong group.

What group would Al be in otherwise? No offense to him personally, but it's not like he had the songwriting chops or household name brand of the Wilson's. Mike is largely talentless and lives off the brand name; no way hed ever want to be anything but a Beach Boy. I think everybody was held back and probably largely made miserable from the late '70s on. But I think Brian and Dennis are the only two who proved that they could have made it on their own if they had really set their minds to it. Carl did make two solo albums, but from what I've heard from just about every review I've seen is that they arent very good.

Some people are meant to go solo and others aren't.  Al definitely could've continued singing folk music with another group and Mike could've joined Jan and Dean.  The Beach Boys were/are considered a "rock group" but Dennis was the only one who really knew how to rock.  Carl was heavily influenced by Chuck Berry and was a great guitar player, but his stage presence wasn't anything compared to Dennis behind the drums.  And Brian just wanted to write symphonies.  It's been discussed in other threads how being a frontman just comes naturally to Mike and that Dennis needed more confidence if he was to take on that role (his jokes were better than Mike's though that's for sure).

Don't forget David Marks, he could certainly rock
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retrokid67
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« Reply #89 on: January 16, 2015, 09:32:56 AM »

Should also mention that at one point or another every member of The Beach Boys (With the exception of Blondie and Ricky, who were at the right place at the right time) was in the wrong group.

What group would Al be in otherwise? No offense to him personally, but it's not like he had the songwriting chops or household name brand of the Wilson's. Mike is largely talentless and lives off the brand name; no way hed ever want to be anything but a Beach Boy. I think everybody was held back and probably largely made miserable from the late '70s on. But I think Brian and Dennis are the only two who proved that they could have made it on their own if they had really set their minds to it. Carl did make two solo albums, but from what I've heard from just about every review I've seen is that they arent very good.

Some people are meant to go solo and others aren't.  Al definitely could've continued singing folk music with another group and Mike could've joined Jan and Dean.  The Beach Boys were/are considered a "rock group" but Dennis was the only one who really knew how to rock.  Carl was heavily influenced by Chuck Berry and was a great guitar player, but his stage presence wasn't anything compared to Dennis behind the drums.  And Brian just wanted to write symphonies.  It's been discussed in other threads how being a frontman just comes naturally to Mike and that Dennis needed more confidence if he was to take on that role (his jokes were better than Mike's though that's for sure).

Don't forget David Marks, he could certainly rock

Right! I wish he would've stayed with them longer  Sad
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« Reply #90 on: January 16, 2015, 11:10:19 AM »

I wonder how the Beach Boys ever made it big with so many untalented members who couldn't rock.

You are my new God and I appreciate your existence.

Look at clips like the TAMI show and tell me who was getting the crowd wild.  Listen to some interviews and tell me who got the most responses from the crowd.
Absolutely! Shame that Dennis couldn't be coaxed or eased in with being more out front. I'm sure that people would have rather seen him than the lovester who looked more like their dad. LOL

Look, maybe some of us want to have sex with both Dennis AND Mike.

At the same time?
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« Reply #91 on: January 16, 2015, 02:16:02 PM »

I wonder how the Beach Boys ever made it big with so many untalented members who couldn't rock.

You are my new God and I appreciate your existence.

Look at clips like the TAMI show and tell me who was getting the crowd wild.  Listen to some interviews and tell me who got the most responses from the crowd.
Absolutely! Shame that Dennis couldn't be coaxed or eased in with being more out front. I'm sure that people would have rather seen him than the lovester who looked more like their dad. LOL

Look, maybe some of us want to have sex with both Dennis AND Mike.

At the same time?

Now that's an unpleasant thought!
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« Reply #92 on: January 16, 2015, 02:43:05 PM »

I wonder how the Beach Boys ever made it big with so many untalented members who couldn't rock.

You are my new God and I appreciate your existence.

Look at clips like the TAMI show and tell me who was getting the crowd wild.  Listen to some interviews and tell me who got the most responses from the crowd.
Absolutely! Shame that Dennis couldn't be coaxed or eased in with being more out front. I'm sure that people would have rather seen him than the lovester who looked more like their dad. LOL

Look, maybe some of us want to have sex with both Dennis AND Mike.

At the same time?

Now that's an unpleasant thought!

Who knows, it may have happened with a groupie at some point  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #93 on: January 16, 2015, 02:51:49 PM »

I wonder how the Beach Boys ever made it big with so many untalented members who couldn't rock.

You are my new God and I appreciate your existence.

Look at clips like the TAMI show and tell me who was getting the crowd wild.  Listen to some interviews and tell me who got the most responses from the crowd.
Absolutely! Shame that Dennis couldn't be coaxed or eased in with being more out front. I'm sure that people would have rather seen him than the lovester who looked more like their dad. LOL

Look, maybe some of us want to have sex with both Dennis AND Mike.

At the same time?

Now that's an unpleasant thought!

Who knows, it may have happened with a groupie at some point  Roll Eyes

I don't see how any girl could take him seriously with those robes and the fact that he had more hair on his chin than on the top of his head  Old Man
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« Reply #94 on: January 16, 2015, 02:59:28 PM »

I don't see how any girl could take him seriously with those robes and the fact that he had more hair on his chin than on the top of his head  Old Man

Do you laugh when you lie?
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« Reply #95 on: January 16, 2015, 03:19:53 PM »

I don't see how any girl could take him seriously with those robes and the fact that he had more hair on his chin than on the top of his head  Old Man

Do you laugh when you lie?

Do you?
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« Reply #96 on: January 16, 2015, 03:23:09 PM »

Ooh, burn
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« Reply #97 on: January 16, 2015, 03:29:18 PM »

Ooh, burn

I'm surprised this is the first response you made here
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« Reply #98 on: January 16, 2015, 03:31:41 PM »

Ooh, burn

I'm surprised this is the first response you made here

It's all just very silly.
Glad to know you still care about me, though.
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« Reply #99 on: January 16, 2015, 03:37:06 PM »

Ooh, burn

I'm surprised this is the first response you made here

It's all just very silly.
Glad to know you still care about me, though.

I care about everyone  Grin
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