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Author Topic: Vega-Tables and Wonderful  (Read 8458 times)
blossomworld
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« on: December 21, 2014, 09:43:50 PM »

Anyone else notice the similarities between the tag on the Smile Sessions version of Vega-Tables and the bridge on the Smiley Smile version of Wonderful, or am I just making this up? Is there any relationship between the two?
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Micha
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2014, 11:22:45 PM »

Anyone else notice the similarities between the tag on the Smile Sessions version of Vega-Tables and the bridge on the Smiley Smile version of Wonderful, or am I just making this up? Is there any relationship between the two?

The low notes on said tag resemble the low notes of the Bicycle Rider theme, while the bridge IS the BR theme in a major key.

Actually this is something that people noticed years ago, so if someone criticizes you for not noticing earlier or not using the search function, don't feel too bad about it.
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JasonK
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2014, 07:46:24 AM »

Hey, I noticed that too, many years ago when I first became a SMiLE fan and posted it on one of the old, old message boards.  Thought I had discovered something new and everyone made me feel like an idiot.  I thought it was pretty cool at the time.  It's my favorite part of Vegetables.
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2014, 08:22:40 AM »

COMMENT:  In case you weren't aware, there is a Vega-tables Study-Video you might enjoy checking out.

See:  http://swdstudyvideos.com


~swd
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ontor pertawst
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2014, 08:26:01 AM »

Terrific stuff, too! Thanks for all the work, guys. Fascinating. Any new videos in the works we can look forward to?
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2014, 03:01:20 PM »

Anyone else notice the similarities between the tag on the Smile Sessions version of Vega-Tables and the bridge on the Smiley Smile version of Wonderful, or am I just making this up? Is there any relationship between the two?

Yes as micha points out as well as its similarity to the vegetables fade, it's also similar to the major key br variations that crop up in Heroes and Villains Part 2. I don't think there's any larger significance other than Brian having favourite segments that he shifted between songs at a whim but who knows.

I do think wonderful, sublime though it is, benefits hugely from such a contrasting middle 8. I always feel the smile version as it appears on disc 1 of TSS lacks that counterpoint - it's almost too nice as is.

If BW did indeed ditch Look as the December track list would suggest, I wonder if it ever crossed his mind to cannibalise any of it for other songs? We know how well it works with Wonderful segueing into it on BWPS. However, I always feel that the pulsing chorus of Look would've created the perfect slow/fast dynamic had it been added as the chorus to wonderful. Like a poppier Cabinessence.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 11:08:18 PM by buddhahat » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2014, 05:55:20 PM »

Look was cannibalized - the chorus was echoed in the a Capella section near the end of Good Vibrations, and another part ended up as the middle 8 section of Child.
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Micha
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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2014, 10:41:30 PM »

I do think wonderful, sublime though it is, benefits hugely from such a contrasting middle 8. I always feel the smile version as it appears on disc 1 of TSS lacks that counterpoint - it's almost too nice as is.

I also think that a middle 8 would improve "Wonderful" to another level. So, willfully ignoring the composer's intentions I mean-spiritedly cobbled together a middle 8 from spare parts. Not stopping there, I also cannibalised another song and added an intro that IMHO fits like a glove in instrumentation, lyrics, and, surprisingly, keywise. Good thing Brian had a favorite key at the time!

Buddhahat, I don't know if this middle 8 is as contrasting as you have it in mind - I used a piece that has about the same tempo - but in case you're interested, here it is:

Wondeful edited by me.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 11:22:42 PM by Micha » Logged

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blossomworld
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« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2014, 09:16:27 PM »

This is fantastic! I'm not sure I like it better than without a middle 8, but it sure is better than what they came up with for Smiley Smile. Also, the "children were raised" bit works weirdly well as an intro to Wonderful--the more I think about it, the more I realize that SMiLE could have been composed of nothing but Heroes and Villains.
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« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2014, 10:47:17 PM »

This is fantastic! I'm not sure I like it better than without a middle 8, but it sure is better than what they came up with for Smiley Smile. Also, the "children were raised" bit works weirdly well as an intro to Wonderful--the more I think about it, the more I realize that SMiLE could have been composed of nothing but Heroes and Villains.

Thank you very much and merry Christmas! Smiley
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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2014, 11:01:25 PM »

I do think wonderful, sublime though it is, benefits hugely from such a contrasting middle 8. I always feel the smile version as it appears on disc 1 of TSS lacks that counterpoint - it's almost too nice as is.

I also think that a middle 8 would improve "Wonderful" to another level. So, willfully ignoring the composer's intentions I mean-spiritedly cobbled together a middle 8 from spare parts. Not stopping there, I also cannibalised another song and added an intro that IMHO fits like a glove in instrumentation, lyrics, and, surprisingly, keywise. Good thing Brian had a favorite key at the time!

Buddhahat, I don't know if this middle 8 is as contrasting as you have it in mind - I used a piece that has about the same tempo - but in case you're interested, here it is:

Wondeful edited by me.

Is that link not working for anyone else?
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Micha
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« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2014, 11:25:01 PM »

Seems I had screwed it up. I fixed it in the original post now, and here it is too:

Wondeful edited by me.

Buddhahat seems to have found a way to listen to it in spite of the bad link.
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« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2014, 12:12:39 AM »

That was tremendous - great alignment Micha. Thank you.
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Micha
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« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2014, 12:52:36 AM »

That was tremendous - great alignment Micha. Thank you.

Thank you! Smiley I'm going to decorate my Christmas tree now.
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« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2014, 05:41:01 PM »

Excellent job!  The middle 8 fits very well although I don't like it as a part of the song.  I also agree that the intro fits like a glove.
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Micha
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« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2014, 01:10:57 AM »

Excellent job!  The middle 8 fits very well although I don't like it as a part of the song.  I also agree that the intro fits like a glove.

Thank you for your feedback and merry Christmas! Smiley
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 01:29:40 AM by Micha » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2014, 01:57:43 PM »

-the more I think about it, the more I realize that SMiLE could have been composed of nothing but Heroes and Villains.


I often have the feeling that that was the case. Of course Smile04 doesn't really go that way.

Micha, thanks for that link. It's cool and the edits work very well.
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« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2014, 02:42:33 PM »

COMMENT:  In case you weren't aware, there is a Vega-tables Study-Video you might enjoy checking out.

See:  http://swdstudyvideos.com


~swd

Thanks Stephen.  You are a treasure-trove of these things...But then again, you're you!  I was lucky enough to hear you mixing in the studio and on tour.  I am a lucky woman...
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Micha
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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2014, 01:49:18 AM »

-the more I think about it, the more I realize that SMiLE could have been composed of nothing but Heroes and Villains.


I often have the feeling that that was the case. Of course Smile04 doesn't really go that way.

Micha, thanks for that link. It's cool and the edits work very well.

Danke dir! Smiley Fröhliche Weihnachten!
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2014, 03:42:15 AM »

Could Rock With Me Henry have been an intended middle 8?
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« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2014, 06:51:21 AM »

Could Rock With Me Henry have been an intended middle 8?

IMHO very unlikely, that seems to be a new complete version with no middle 8 intended for it either. Isn't that one in a different key as well? The Smiley middle 8 may have been inserted as replacement for the junked "All fall down" verse.
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« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2014, 09:37:34 AM »

Would the key be a deal breaker? Wasn't it labeled as "Wonderful (insert)"?
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« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2014, 08:52:52 AM »

Wow! I just checked out the Stephen Desper site. So cool!
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« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2014, 01:38:48 AM »

Would the key be a deal breaker? Wasn't it labeled as "Wonderful (insert)"?

Was it? insert could also mean "overdub", I think. The key could be a deal breaker, as the pieces I used fit in both key and tempo, that's why it sounds so smooth.
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« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2014, 11:15:09 AM »

Would the key be a deal breaker? Wasn't it labeled as "Wonderful (insert)"?

I think you're thinking of something else, I think.
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