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Author Topic: Listening Project, Pt. 2: Week 12 - Songs for a Tailor by Jack Bruce  (Read 15508 times)
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« on: December 09, 2014, 12:07:25 PM »

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I was wondering if anyone might be interested in doing a weekly album listening/discussion idea, where we put names in a randomiser and the chosen person gets to pick any album they like. Everybody else then listens to it and discusses it. Works great for breaking down assumptions about genres or artists that you don't care for or know that much about and also exposing yourself to unheard good things.

I reckon that a Spotify/Rdio/streaming service is best as they all have free versions and don't require any great investment.

Anyway anyone interested can sign their name in whatever musical liquid they have handy below.

The order is:

1. Woodstock
2. Mr. Tudball
3. Lowbacca
4. Pixel twin
5. MugginsXO
6. Judd
7. Peter Reum
8. Unreleased Backgrounds
9. Bubbly Waves
10. The captain
11. Hype hat
12. Dumb Angel
13. Feelsflow

Spotify Playlist Updated Weekly:

http://open.spotify.com/user/1155763365/playlist/2aIlXmI9w4GOWP9ARLS49L


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Week One
   
Woodstock


Okay then, I pick "Yes" by Morphine.



Here's the album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnRMpIRVTUc
It's also on spotify: http://open.spotify.com/album/4hjF5ylcCM1AeJ2F4SaQKL

A bit of background on them: Mark Sandman was the frontman, he sang and played a two string slide bass. With him are a saxophone player and a drummer.
They released 5 albums, the 5th being released after Mark had a heart attack onstage in Italy. They were quite well known in Europe and South America, but never got very popular in the USA. I'm picking them cuz I've never had anyone to talk about Morphine with   Grin

Discussion starts here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18378.msg479037.html#msg479037


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Week Two

Mr. Tudball


My choice for this upcoming week is From Elvis In Memphis by Elvis Presley. One of my favorites and I hope you enjoy it. Smiley



https://play.spotify.com/user/jbertram0015/playlist/1YEgHzkmQDf5WyNliVL0Ve

Discussion starts here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18378.msg480470.html#msg480470


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Week Three

Lowbacca


Okay, I've thought long and hard about it and it has come to this:




NADA SURF's 2012 The Stars Are Indifferent to Astronomy - as an avid long-time Nada Surf fan this album took me a couple of months and endless nights with it on my MP3 player to really like it, but today I think it's one of their best. I saw them perform much of this live and the songs really shone. Shined? Shone. I'm excited for your opinions!

http://open.spotify.com/album/1CFDAolez0ObsplEGqbzTI

Discussion starts here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18378.msg481563.html#msg481563


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Week Four

pixletwin


Anyhoo, grab your favorite auditory palate cleanser and dive in to this:

Everyone (I assume) has a great album which they feel jives better within a specific context than any other album. For me, within the context of the month of November, I have one particular album I always renew an obsession with.


Here is the spotify link: https://play.spotify.com/track/0MYAOepwUOBfsToBdGiq6c

I hope you all like it. The final track is one of the few pieces to actually reduce me to a blubbering mess.  LOL

Discussion starts here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18378.msg482640.html#msg482640


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Week Five

MugginsXO


Alright! It is Week 5 and it is my choice. I thought quite a while about what to pick and wasn't sure in the end whether to go for a newer favourite or an old classic. I have decided to pick:

Zebra by Gallant



It is an EP at 28 minutes length so should make for easy listening. This is probably my favourite release of 2014 thus far. It is one more encouraging and exciting result of the R&B revival of the past few years. I think as far as Weeknd influenced people go, this guy is way, way above the Drake sponsored PARTYNEXTDOOR. Manhattan is gorgeous and my favourite on here but I love Forfeit and Ibuprofen too. Very atmospheric, vocally pleasing to the extreme and generally mood changing.

I think people will particularly like this is they enjoy the new R&B or some of the older Nu-Soul stuff like Maxwell's Urban Hang Suite. If they enjoy electronically flavoured Indie stuff I think they will like it too.   

Spotify Link


Discussion starts here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18378.msg483578.html#msg483578


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Week Six

Judd


Been mulling over this for a while, but my choice for the next week is The Doughnut in Granny's Greenhouse by the Bonzo Dog (Doo-Dah) Band.



I consider this a really fun record, and I hope y'all like it. I believe the US version of this album is retitled Urban Spaceman and has an alternate tracklist, so just so we clear...

Discussion starts here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18378.msg484388.html#msg484388


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Week Seven

Peter Reum


Hello again! I have been listening to lots of different stuff....I would very much like to offer a diiferent twist to this process. You all are invited to listen to Indigenous Artist Robert Mirabal. The name of the album is Music From a Painted Cave. You can find it at Spotify (free version) or Rdio (free version). As an introduction, I will send you over to youtube for this video track from the dvd of Music From a Painted Cave....  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6SqqeF9Do4



Discussion starts here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18378.msg485788.html#msg485788


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Week Eight

Unreleased Backgrounds


I choose "Marieke" (1961) by Jacques Brel



http://open.spotify.com/album/0aDtrIiTp743UXccAuHcng

The album has nine songs, any after that on Spotify are bonus tracks.
A rough English translation of the lyrics to follow.

Discussion starts here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18378.msg486600.html#msg486600


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Week Nine

Bubbly Waves


Anyone paying close attention to my posts recently has probably figured out I'm having a bit of an obsession with an artist I recently discovered - Nick Cave. So, the artist was an easy choice for me. The album, however, was a tough one. I love all his albums that I've heard so far and he is remarkably consistent in the quality department. After consideration, I decided to go with...

(Drumroll, please)

Tender Prey by Nick Cave!


Easily the worst cover art that I've yet encountered in his catalog, I decided to choose this album as I thought it would work well as an introduction. Rather than throwing you into the deep end with something a bit more... Nick Cave-y, I figured this has a nice balance between a lot of his styles and will act as a good introduction to his work. Although, I will admit, part of the reason I choose this album is that it is a bit scatter shot in its approach, and isn't perhaps as cohesive as his albums normally are. But, more on that later. I'd like to share what I think about this album as well, but I'll hold off a bit to see what other people think first.  I think there is a real mix of song quality on this album, and I'd like to see what a newcomer (or, hey, maybe you've heard his music before) will make of this album.

However, there are a few things I'd like to share about this album, #1 being that Nick Cave uses a great amount of biblical imagery in his writing, so for people like me who aren't by any means familiar with the bible, I thought I would share that the song "Mercy" is based on John the Baptist (follow this link to read about the circumstances the song is based on), as it helped me a great amount to understand and appreciate the song. I also want to say that I love the first song on this album, and so did Johnny Cash apparently, as he covered it during his Rick Rubin years. Play it loud Smiley

Discussion starts here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,19245.msg488742.html#msg488742


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Week Ten

the Captain


Beulah, The Coast is Never Clear (2001)

http://open.spotify.com/album/56Dr31BA2OyDUJuYLVOVs3

If there is a precursor to my choice, it's actually one I was lukewarm on, Nada Surf's The Stars Are Indifferent to Astronomy...

The riff that opens "A Good Man is Easy to Kill" complemented in short order by that go-g0 60s percussion and then the background "ba da bap bap ba-dah dahs," … I'm in heaven. Horns? Yes, please. Vitality! It's not a fast song, but it drives ahead. It rocks while not really being a rock song, riff notwithstanding.

It set the pace for the album--and the album lived up to its opener. (I'm not counting "Hello Resolven," here, which is more an introduction than a song.) Miles Kurowsky isn't the strongest singer in the world, but he holds his own, all through a kind of cynical-but-doe-eyed hipster sneer that hit the spot for this then-24-year-old.

Most of all, the kind of hook-oriented rock that bands like Weezer were doing at the time always left me unaffected because their arrangements bored me. They were mostly just straight ahead, maybe a clean-toned arpeggio section and a distorted power-chord section, but nothing else. This, this Beulah, threw in the kitchen sink, and the sink fit goshdarn well. Lead vocals doubled by octave. Background vocals like I mentioned before, all those glorious ba-da-das that make my world go 'round. Tambourines, shakers, a vibraslap. A VIBRASLAP! Piano, organ, trumpet, strings, acoustic, electric.

And it wasn't just there to be there, it all fit these songs. These lovely songs that felt comfortable from the beginning, but still new to me. Like those on KonTiki they didn't feel like rip-offs so much as forgotten classics or even continuations. Singable hooks, lovely memories, mostly mid tempo, all rolling along (and occasionally even rocking along).

Lyrically it's what you'd expect from people who are as self-consciously hipster as Beulah were. They seemed eager to drop references, be they musical or verbal (in interviews). It's clever, it's self-absorbed. I want to hate them, but I can't do it. Anyone who does the instrumental (plus oohs) break of "Popular Mechanics for Lovers" gets a free pass. They just do.

I listen back and I still smile. I still love The Coast is Never Clear. I don't think it's a groundbreaking album by any stretch of the imagination. But I think it's a great album anyway. I think it's the kind of album that people will look back at and call an under-appreciated gem.

With that, I give unto you, Beulah's The Coast is Never Clear. Do you know it? Like it? Bored by it? Hate it? Hate me? Let me have it.

Discussion starts here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,19245.msg489871.html#msg489871


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Week Eleven

Dumb Angel



The Exploding Hearts - Guitar Romantic (2003)

Spotify: https://play.spotify.com/album/2zDkArT4ElJG9lmng08Myq
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhmctlRdGOo

These guys aren't just another punk rock revival group; The Exploding Heart's wonderfully combine elements of first wave punk rock and power-pop to give them their kickass signature sound. They led a punk rock/new wave revival scene in the Seattle and Portland areas in the early 2000's and became a local success. Tragically, on July 20, 2003, three of the four members were killed in an accident as they began to make it big.

I don't hear a lot of talk about them, so I'm excited to hear your opinions!

Discussion starts here: smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,19245.msg491446.html#msg491446


Quote

Week Twelve

Feelsflow


Wasn't going to be my choice, but the thread has died and this is an appropriate end.  I have enjoyed very much doing this.

for a fallen soldier...



youtube:  http://youtu.be/yLtrg-3ahrU
spotify:    https://play.spotify.com/album/0CXaWWTLMLIxq3kXlCSjxe

Discussion starts here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,19245.msg492525.html#msg492525
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2014, 01:52:28 AM »


 After more research, I now know the first Brel song I ever heard was...drumroll:

"La Colombe" by Judy Collins on In My Life (1966).  Brel's version is far and away the best.  Couldn't find a translation, but I guess he's singing a different set of lyrics.  His own.  Judy is using Alasdair Clayre lyrics.

Joan Baez sang that too, I really like her version. "The Dove". I do like the English words on that one, too.

I came across Brel 67 while looking for other songs Judy had recorded.  She obviously loved him very much.  I liked this album as much as Marieke.  By 1967 he slowed down his tempos, and I think that works better with his voice.  It's even more expressive.  She did "La Chanson des vieux amants" on Wildflowers (1967).  This my favorite Collins album, so it's impossible to say he does it better.  But. Love the solo horn and arrangement.  Gerard Jouannest is impressive on piano.  He reminds me of Michel Legrand.  I think he brought a lot to the table when he became Jacques collaborator.  

Brel also worked with Michel Legrand for a few songs in the 1950s.
I agree about Jouannest, he wrote a lot of Brel's best tunes too. And François Rauber was a brilliant orchestral arranger.

I must say "67" is one of my least favourite Brel albums. It has a few great songs but too much filler and too many bizarre cuts. Though I can see the argument that he had progressed stylistically.

Here's how I'd characterise the albums: (they're actually nearly all untitled, Peter Gabriel-style, but have acquired titles colloquially since.)

Philips years:
Le grand Jacques, Quand on n'a que l'amour - the early style: good, but very different. Now abounding in cheap budget versions Surfin' Safari-style.
Au printemps- more lush, first works with François Rauber, lyrics still optimistic and sweet, but definitely evolving.
La valse à mille temps - his first masterpiece in my eyes. Still somewhat sentimental, but loads of classics.
Marieke already discussed
olympia '61 stunning live album.

Barclay years:
Les bourgeois lots of classics, getting more and more bitter and provocative.
Les bonbons again, lots of classics, and a peak of instrumental variety and creativity (it reminds me a little of "Rubber Soul" somehow.)
olympia '64 another great live album with little overlap from the previous one. With the only released Brel version of "Amsterdam".
Ces gens-là I think this is the best album. ( I didn't choose it only because I thought it might be too heavy as an introduction). A work of art, theatre, poetry. Feels all of a piece, even though in fact it was recorded (and initially released) piecemeal. Very intense.
'67 See above.
J'arrive Great return to form. Several longer, slower songs.
L'homme de la Mancha Original Paris cast recording of the Don Quixote musical. Couple of good tracks that could have been Brel originals, and a lot of awful stage-school singing by the other actors.
Ne me quitte pas Rerecordings of Philips material. Mostly very well done, and a great introduction to Brel.
Les Marquises The last album, his first for many years. He died soon after. His voice much more scorched. Regarded as a classic, but I find it a bit hard-going overall.
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« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2014, 09:33:24 AM »

I have really been getting into this one.  So much of what I've been listening to (and reading) this past week has been great, and I haven't even studied Brel's 50's work yet.  I was never all that big on Baez, but did play her version of "La Colombe."  It was Collins who first recorded the English version in 1966.  Then in 1967 she helped produce the album Save the Children - Songs From the Hearts of Women.  The intro is in English, then her take on the song in French.  This is still not as good as Brel's, mostly because it's just Bruce Langhorne on guitar and Judy on piano:  http://youtu.be/Ly3bVm7SpGU

I wasn't old enough to understand what all the protesting on TV was about.  I was just a kid listening to The Beach Boys and The Beatles, and usually skipped Judy's Dylan and protest tracks.  I didn't want to think about war in 1966.  As a freshman in high school (and throughout the late 60's) our history teachers thought anything after WWII was too controversial to discuss (including civil rights).  We were told to talk to our parents about it or among ourselves outside the classroom.  I was in the deep South, not Berkeley.  I liked Country Joe and his gang, but they left "I Feel Like I'm Fixin' to Die" on an obscure 1965 EP (Rag Baby: Songs of Opposition) til November 1967.  That was on their second album, and the only protest song they did up to that point.  This place is about music, not politics (except the sandbox), but 1967 wasn't all peace and love.  Then everything "escalated quickly" in America and the world in 1968.  By then I was well aware my country would soon ask force me to go to Vietnam.  Folks were fighting in the streets, but not on our turntables so much.  Not mine.  Dylan was singing about visions, outlaws, Country Pie and Nashville's skyline.  Protest music was not riding the charts, other than The Beatles' "Revolution," and The Beach Boys were asking everybody to just be friends.  Baez's Joan album wasn't full of protest songs either.

My family wasn't wealthy like Brel's, but there were similarities.  He was lucky to be from a bourgeois family - easier to deal with not only the Great Depression era he was born in, but a childhood that he described as "...where almost nothing happened ...It was not rough at all ...It was calm and inevitably morose."  Really?  He was eleven when Germany turned Belgium on it's head.  Yes, he made references to the invasion in one of his songs - "May 40," but that was written after he was less naïve.  "La Colombe" was written in 1959.  He was still growing up while France controlled Vietnam, and soon involved in the Indochina War (1946-1954).  He was writing about his own memories, not America's war.  Notice in Judy's intro she says 1949, the soldiers are leaving Paris.  "Quand on n'a que l'amour" ("If We Only Have Love") was written in the middle of the Algerian War in 1956, and also used during demonstrations against the Vietnam war in America.  I've read he publicly supported the Unified Socialist Party, a left reformist party, during the French elections of 1967, and that Jouannest was a member of the Communist Party.  So by then he was forming a firm direction.  better add a disclaimer here:  some of what I'm paraphrasing and quoting came from The World Socialist web site.  I'm no expert on Brel's life.  Ian is probably not learning anything new here, but for everybody else...

I'll do one more.  Let's look into the lovely "Port of Amsterdam" written in 1964.  Beyond his political views and wealth he had a lot of respect for the common man.  In this song Brel puts himself in the shoes of sailors - showing the harshness of their day-to-day struggles.  Beauty flows alongside ugliness, misery touches pleasure and dream straddles harsh reality.  There's a sailor who dies, and in the very next verse a sailor is born on a hot muggy morn.

Many of his songs are about these everyday people and well, life. "Port of Amsterdam" is a crescendo on life.  I first heard "Port of Amsterdam" on a Bowie bootleg EP in 1979.  It's from the 1971 Ziggy sessions.  A b-side on the "Sorrow" single (1973).  I might have heard it back in '73, some of my friends were into Bowie/Glam, but I didn't get into him til 1975's Young Americans.  The reason I confused "Alabama Song" with "Port of Amsterdam" is that I had Bowie's 1982 12" single where the two songs comprised the a-side.  Then thought "must have heard that first by the Doors" - but confusing the tracks.  how's that for clarifying?  
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 09:42:54 AM by feelsflow » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2014, 12:57:32 PM »

I didn't actually know much about his politics. I just assumed he was a socialist because of his tribute to Jean Jaurès on his last album. He seems to have been quite a contradictory character, not to say hypocritical. Though he doesn't often comment directly on current affairs in his lyrics, the overwhelming political feeling expressed in them is anti- war, ugliness, and intolerence; and pro-peace, empathy, kindness and freedom.

Bubby Waves's dislike of the lyrics to "Les singes" got me considering them more thoughtfully than before. They seem to express a Rousseau-derived philosophy, which has been generally discredited, that before we became "civilised" we lived in a golden age of harmony, peace and freedom, that if we listen to our natural impulses, we will be free. So its ironic (probably deliberately) that its called "the monkeys", when this philosophy suggests it would be better if real monkeys were in charge. But I don't think its meant to be taken too literally, I think it's a lyrical device that allows Brel to rant against different pet hates.
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2014, 04:39:19 PM »

Anyone paying close attention to my posts recently has probably figured out I'm having a bit of an obsession with an artist I recently discovered - Nick Cave. So, the artist was an easy choice for me. The album, however, was a tough one. I love all his albums that I've heard so far and he is remarkably consistent in the quality department. After consideration, I decided to go with...

(Drumroll, please; Yeah, I know you already saw the thread title, shut up)

Tender Prey by Nick Cave!


Easily the worst cover art that I've yet encountered in his catalog, I decided to choose this album as I thought it would work well as an opening. Rather than picking my favorite album and throwing you into the deep end with something a bit more... Nick Cave-y, I figured this has a nice balance between a lot of his styles and will act as a good introduction to his work. Although, I will admit, part of the reason I choose this album is that it is a bit scatter shot in its approach, and isn't perhaps as cohesive as his albums normally are. But, more on that later. I'd like to share what I think about this album as well, but I'll hold off a bit to see what other people think first.  I think there is a real mix of song quality here, and I'd like to see what a newcomer (or, hey, maybe you've heard his music before) will make of this album.

However, there are a few things I'd like to mention, #1 being that Nick Cave uses a great amount of biblical imagery in his writing, so for people like me who aren't by any means familiar with the bible, I thought I would share that the song "Mercy" is based on John the Baptist (follow this link to read about the circumstances the song is based on), as it helped me a great amount to understand and appreciate the song. #2 being that I love the first song on this album, and so did Johnny Cash apparently, as he covered it during his Rick Rubin years. Play it loud Smiley
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 07:08:01 PM by Bubbly Waves » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2014, 09:43:42 AM »

Nick Cave has never tickled my fancy. In one of my intermittent bursts of I've-Got-To-Hear-Everythingism--this particular bout before streaming for free was easy--I bought From Her to Eternity used and tried that out. I had read enough to have some idea what I was in for, but the music didn't match my imagination's version of the descriptions.

Unfortunately Tender Prey produces a similar result. I understand what people would like about it and question why I don't, myself. Part of it is the purely illogical matter of personal aesthetics: my infamous aversion to baritone singers. There are exceptions, but few enough that they are exceptions. Part of it is the cartoonish noir gloomster that Cave plays. I always feel like he's leading a joke-band at a Halloween party. More of it is the repetitive nature of some of Cave's songs. A song like "The Mercy Seat," which is widely regarded as a great song, pains me as it pushes toward its 7:18 conclusion.

What isn't actually repetitive gives the feeling of it by a sameness to the production. (Let's be honest, if this were a sound I liked more, I'd use a word like "consistency" and would chalk it up in the pros column.) The echoing spaciousness to the instruments--which sound thin in a way I associate with the '80s in general--makes the whole thing sound to me like a band playing in an empty basement.

It's not all negative with me. "Watching Alice" is a really good song, definitely and by far my favorite on Tender Prey. Like a Berlin-era Lou Reed song, it's startling to hear a narrator so detached describing what would normally be an intimate scene. There is also sufficient harmonic motion to keep things progressing. And speaking of progressing, Cave & the Bad Seeds have a way of mining classic sounds for rhythms that roll, when the spirit moves them. "Sugar Sugar Sugar," "Deanna," and parts of "The Mercy Seat" have anthemic power from classic rock and roll or in the latter case, more like work-song-meets-march.

In the end, though, I just don't enjoy listening to Nick Cave. Why not, since I love Tom Waits, another unconventional baritone spanning genres with a penchant for songcraft and seedy stories delivered fully in character?

The answer is I have no idea.
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2014, 10:09:07 AM »

Unfortunately Tender Prey produces a similar result. I understand what people would like about it and question why I don't, myself. Part of it is the purely illogical matter of personal aesthetics: my infamous aversion to baritone singers. There are exceptions, but few enough that they are exceptions. Part of it is the cartoonish noir gloomster that Cave plays. I always feel like he's leading a joke-band at a Halloween party. More of it is the repetitive nature of some of Cave's songs. A song like "The Mercy Seat," which is widely regarded as a great song, pains me as it pushes toward its 7:18 conclusion.

What isn't actually repetitive gives the feeling of it by a sameness to the production. (Let's be honest, if this were a sound I liked more, I'd use a word like "consistency" and would chalk it up in the pros column.) The echoing spaciousness to the instruments--which sound thin in a way I associate with the '80s in general--makes the whole thing sound to me like a band playing in an empty basement.

On fist listen, I also thought "Mercy Seat" was repetitive. In fact, whenever I listen to an album of his that's new to me, it takes me a couple listens to really absorb what I'm hearing. As I listened to "Mercy Seat" more and more, I started to understand the approach more (or at least what I think what the point is): you're in his head, hearing these thoughts constantly go round and round while he's waiting to be sent to the electric chair for a crime he's innocent of. While waiting what must be a lifetime in what is actually a couple moments, these thoughts are constantly spilling out of him: fear, anger, reassurance, and then a steely complacency. He's constantly going through this thought cycle as he awaits his death.

One of the things I love about Nick Cave is that his music never - to me, anyway - carried the typical sound signatures of certain eras for music. Although, I will agree that that changes a bit for this album and the next, the Good Son. There are some other things I'd like to comment on in your post, but I'll wait until other people chime in.

Maybe you'll enjoy Johnny Cash's version more, which does away with a lot of the repeated verse (chorus?): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8CzFVm1Yio
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2014, 10:56:39 AM »

I think you're exactly right about what Cave is doing on "The Mercy Seat." It's just that to me, the effect wasn't helpful.

The idea is similar to something called word painting, where the music does what the words say or imply. At its simplest, maybe a major seventh chord on a happy lyric or a suspended fourth when the text indicates suspense or indecision. Other examples might be an ascending line when the words say "rise," etc. Cave is nowhere near as clunky and obvious as those examples, but I just use them as examples. The issue with that kind of technique is that sometimes the technique makes sense, but just is too much. You can imagine how tedious a song might be that tried to make musical symbols for everything happening lyrically. It's clever in a sense, and successful at what it's doing on one level (e.g., it is indeed making symbolism out of lyrics, for better or worse), but on another level it's just not going to be something someone wants to hear.

That, for me, is in part what happened on "The Mercy Seat."

By the way, I don't mean to harp on my dislike. (Not that I think you'd care; I'm pretty sure you can handle disagreement ... and I look forward to the inevitable blowback on whatever I select next week.) It's not disdain, I can tell you that. I respect Cave and see why what he does is good. I just don't want to hear much of it.
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2014, 11:50:33 AM »

No, voicing your opinion is the exact point of this thread, it's alright. In all honestly, I'm not really sure what to expect with responses. I didn't think you cared for him all that much, due to your recent posts saying you don't usually like baritone singers, and that he seems like someone you would know, but you never seem to post or make mention about him. I hate to be your typical Frank-Zappa-fan, but given your like for "Watching Alice", I do think there might be some Cave you'll actually like. A lot of his music going forward downplays his "cartoonish noir gloomster" side, especially when he was into his "writing a classic love song" phase. This is one of his first, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0spQCw35D4, and is beloved.

I think as Nick became older, his songs became quieter and more piano-based. In fact, much of his music had become calmer and more contemplative (starting with the Good Son and later continuing with the Boatman's Call) until he decided to turn things around again with Grinderman. That's probably for another conversation entirely, though.
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2014, 11:55:17 AM »


I think as Nick became older, his songs became quieter and more piano-based.

Don't we all.  Grin
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2014, 02:18:34 PM »

Cool pick.

Looking back now I'm surprised at how much variety there was in the subject matter, and yet the whole listening experience felt a bit samey. I think it's just because I'm more into music than lyrics (in fact, I'm usually utterly hopeless at lyrics)... here the sounds compliment the words nicely, but it's all centred around the lyrics and Nick's delivery. And since it's all rather gloomy I felt like a lot of the backing tracks were similar, even if the lyrics were very different.

Still, "The Mercy Seat" and "Deanna" (which was fun in a sick sort of way) were very good... maybe because the music itself was more memorable.

Not really for me, I think is the bottom line. But was a worthwhile listen, fer sure. I feel like I might enjoy The Boatman's Call.
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2014, 05:17:01 PM »

Gave the record a first listen this morning.  This will definitely take several listens to get a feel for.  I had listened to a couple of his albums a few weeks ago, From Her to Eternity and Let Love In, after they were posted in the What are You Listening To thread.  Tender Prey is a bit different to those.

You guys seem to focusing on "The Mercy Seat," so I played several live versions looking for a better take than the one on the lp, which is repetitive, and needs some editing.  He did that on his Letterman appearance in 2008, playing it as a solo piano piece at four minutes and change.  This allowed the lyrics to shine through and be clearly understood, and depressing they are.  Glastonbury 2009 was the best one I found of a full band take.  They play the song without any repetition, clocking in around five minutes.  I noticed it is Nick that is doing the great 60's organ sound on the record.

So far I'm liking side one more.  "Up Jumped the Devil" and especially "Mercy" are standouts.  I'm thinking Nick at the piano is what works best for me.   
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« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2014, 05:26:31 PM »

I had listened to a couple of his albums a few weeks ago, From Her to Eternity and Let Love In

What did you think of those albums? I was considering throwing everyone in the deep end with From Her to Eternity, but I chose something that was (I thought, at least) a bit easier. I haven't heard Let Love In yet, but it's next on my list. Has that song "Red Right Hand" that everyone seems to know.

I think you'll like this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv0Fy3eS81g. For some reason, it made me think of you. It's in a country vein that we have a mutual affinity for (most of that album is).
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2014, 05:08:08 PM »

Nick's debut From Her to Eternity (1984) is so far out of the realm of what I listen to - once was enough.  The Cohen song was near unrecognizable.  He got better tho.  By 1987, he did the David Byrne imitation a bit better on the re-make of "From Her to Eternity."  Deep end?  Middle of the Atlantic for me - with big waves.  Let Love In (1994) between 1992's Henry's Dream and 1996's Murder Ballads is much better.  Strong piano (mostly Conway Savage) and organ (Nick) based songs.  Lots of treated guitars by Mick Harvey and Blixa.  Basically a "loser in love" themed album, and his usual dealings with the Devil.  He has several different moods as far as the music goes, but the lyrics are mostly depressive.  Is Nick ever happy?

Don't think I'll be able to get through his whole catalogue by Friday, but I did enjoy Henry's Dream.  I listened to the whole album.  Country feel with pop sensibilities.  "Brother, My Cup is Empty" is Country with a 70's British Pub-Rock feel that Nick Lowe did so well.  Cave came to England in 1980, good time to be there musically - not so much politically.  You should check out Brinsley Schwartz, maybe "Ju Ju Man (live)"   http://youtu.be/Vq8Jzu8iKOw   I wish you had picked Henry's Dream.  I'm way into Country music.  We're all showing each other good stuff.  I like the way this thread has so many left turns.

Quick rundown of the tracks from Let Love In:

"Nobody's Baby Now" - is very Dylan.  "Jangling Jack" - his Waits' song for this album.  "Red Right Hand" - wait, even more Waits like, sounds musically like "Way Down in the Hole" and he's using Waits' imagery here too.  Throwing in Burroughs' imagery too.  I like Nick's organ sound - it's right out of Phantom of the Opera.  "I Let Love In" - Where is love getting in?  Despair and deception to a spaghetti western melody.  "Thirsty Dog" - sounds like early Cave/Birthday Party =Iggy/Stooges.  "Ain't Gonna Rain Anymore" - wreckage and ruin.  My baby's gone...  "Lay Me Low" - using found melodies again, given time I could pin the song - but don't want to keep playing it over and over.  "Do You Love Me (part 2)" - another stretch through the desert of his life, another spaghetti western.  It's all downhill with a bullet in Nick's back.   
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2014, 05:45:34 PM »

Yes, From Her to Eternity is certainly a unique album experience. Usually, we seem to have similar tastes, but that album's hellish madness totally drew me in. I actually usually skip "Avalanche" and start that album with "Cabin Fever". The Cohen cover just seems to get in the way of what I really want to hear on that album. I find the next album, the Firstborn Is Dead, to be a similar kind of thing, except re-imagined as a blues album. The opening track is an amazing song.

I quite like Henry's Dream, too. I was actually thinking about choosing it, but it's still a bit new to me (only been listening to it for about 6 days now), and I originally planned to go with Tender Prey. In the end, I just decided to stick with my original choice, and perhaps made a mistake similar to Peter Reum's in that I picked what I thought would be a good access point rather than just picking one of my favorites. Even if you didn't like Tender Prey so much, I'm glad you found one you did like in Henry's Dream. I love that part when the whole band lets loose on "John Finn's Wife" and you just know something terrible is about to happen.

Is Nick ever happy? Hmm, we might just have to settle for manic.  Smiley
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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2014, 11:15:20 PM »

Young people pick up on the energy of music like early Cave.  I did too when I was young.  I can see that.  But I don't jump up and down anymore when I listen to music.  I've watched and listened to a lot of his music this week and enjoyed some of it.  Listened to parts of both the Grinderman albums - even in the late 2000's he can wear you out.  He can get to a fever pitch.  I don't see him as completely Goth.  I think he reads the Dark Romantic writers (Poe, Hawthorne, Byron, Shelly) and feeds off their "man challenged by sin and self-destruction" stories and poems - sticking in the spookiness/illusion that is sometimes real life.  Or real inside the mind that's living it.  If you follow that link back you will get to someone unreleased backgrounds mentioned, Rousseau and his thoughts on "les singes" (the monkeys").  Cave is taking that philosophy literally in The Birthday Party track "Nick the Stripper" - he dances on all fours.   http://youtu.be/l5I2vEcVC_I   I have no way to know how deeply Cave studied into this, but it's easy enough to find it and read it.  By the end of the clip he's tangling with a goat - goodness, I wasn't sure what he was about to do.  He's always talking about murder and mayhem.  Hellish madness is a good description.  This was also an early example of another theme he would mine later.  Burroughs' insects, fat little insects.  These are the images I'm picking up on, and I must say this is a strange time of year to be watching something like this.  It's Christmas, Bubbly!  Monkeys should be dressed up in festive hats not painted green.  Okay, painted green is good for Christmas I guess, but not with those evil looks like on the Grinderman album.  I liked "Mickey Mouse and the Goodbye Man' - he does Iggy pretty good on many tracks.

It is hard, and been said a few times in this thread, to jump in quick to music you've never heard in just a week.  I like some Punk music and some Post-Punk.  Just not on any big scale.  Something else was always catching my attention in other styles.  I didn't like the early stuff as much as Cave's progress.  But that too is held back by the sameness of the lyrics.  It's fairly unrelenting in sadness set in aggressive beats and in the slow ones.  I listen to sad songs, but this is track after track a man living a life I don't want to think about.  That's me tho.  I read enough to know Nick is very popular.

Tender Prey         Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds

Produced by Flood (Mark Ellis) - I like some of his work with U2 (Zooropa, Pop), Depeche Mode (Violator).  A bit of the Smashing Pumpkins stuff.  He did Pop the same year (1996) he did Boatman's Call - both came out in 1997.  He has a good many well produced tracks by a variety of artists.

"The Mercy Seat" - This grew on me more after the many different versions I listened to.  The lp version's opening sounds like we are taking our seat for a Midnight showing of Rocky Horror Picture Show - then Nick starts talking about dying tonight.

"Up Jumped the Devil" - sounds a bit like late 70's Stones, but also Waits.  His connection to Waits is in the words (and who he read too).  This is a favorite.

"Deanna" - who is he?  The Devil?  The Stones sorta own that idea since the last century.  It's a strong track, another favorite.

"Watching Alice" - the harmonica reminds me of the haunting sound John Barry got on the themes in Midnight Cowboy.  Nick plays that well.

"Mercy" - this is my favorite track on Tender Prey.  I definitely like his piano based songs the best.  I was watching Bowie's video DVD last Saturday night.  The background vocals especially, but the track in general is very reminiscent of "Loving the Alien."  Mercy is Nick's mantra.  When he's not feeling damned, he's asking for mercy, like all sinners.

"City of Refugee" - this has an early 80's sound.  Post-Punk was all about doom - the world falling around your shoulders.  Bowie did this much better with Diamond Dogs and his earlier Glam period.  Sure Nick was spinning "My Death" and others late into the night.

"Slowly Goes the Night" - Nick pulls up some soul here.  He almost sounds like Barry White, even Joe Jackson.  But again, it's Bowie who's in mind with the construction of this.  Of all the albums I checked out, only this one is so influenced by Bowie.  

I didn't like "Sunday's Slave."  "Sugar, Sugar, Sugar" - not sure what to say about this one either.  I didn't like the lyrics.  The music has that same spaghetti western sound I mentioned for "Do You Love Me (part 2)."  He's an Angel of God that goes around killing...who?  Her new boyfriend?  I didn't get it.

"New Morning" - on this track, and a few others on different albums, I think he sounds like Kris Kristofferson.  I like it, my forth favorite.  Nick gets Neil Young's harmonica sound - a nice Country closer.  Death squads seem to follow Nick wherever and with whomever he roams with.    Oh well, down the road we go...

  
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« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2014, 10:52:35 AM »

Yeah, I certainly don't think Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds are for everyone. They're unrelentingly dark, and that can put some people off. However, I really enjoy darker things and it's not something I find in the music that I listen to very often. All this talk of murder and madness is totally appealing to me because it's unique and interesting and it's done so well. Where you guys may be put off by the fact that he's consistently gloomy - that's what I want. At least I got you guys to listen to something that's not what you usually listen to, which seems like the point of this whole thing.

Concerning the songs, I talked about my love for and what I think about "Mercy Seat" before, but I did forget to mention those strings that break through later on in the song - really emotional effect. The next song, "Up Jumped the Devil", I'm a little iffy on. I think it's a fun, enjoyable song, but it's almost like someone doing an exaggerated imitation of what they think a Nick Cave song is. I'm glad that feelsflow likes it, but I suspect that this was a song the Captain had in mind when he mentioned Nick being a "cartoonish noir gloomster." The song afterwards, "Deanna", had me from first listen, though. Starting off with the "O Happy Day" hymn (how's that for a drastic subject matter change), this is a great, garage rock tune about murdering people with your best girl friend in the name of Jesus. Good stuff, one of my favorites also.

I was sort of surprised to see that the Captain likes "Watching Alice" as much as he does. I certainly like think it's a nice song, but I was never too taken with it. I don't find it to be a very engaging listen. I was also surprised that feelsflow likes "Mercy" as much as he does. I like the music on this one, and I do think, despite the song's origins, Nick begging for mercy is perhaps a little more personally inspired. I find that last verse to be so emotional: "My cousin's workin' miracles, I wondered if he'd find me..." and the way he sings "Have mercy upon me, and I dropped down to my knees". Good song, but I think you can find better on this record. "City of Refuge" is a nice way to pick the album up out of it's slower section, and I like the harmonica on this one. It's exciting and I like the imagery that it evokes, but I think it's one of the more minor songs.

"Slowly Goes the Night" is one that I enjoy a lot, definitely a favorite. I think the music, lyrics, and backing vocals are actually quite pretty. This is a song of lost love, a guy stuck to ruminate on his life choices after his love leaves him. The nights they used to spend together are replaced with him tossing and turning, angry with himself, and unable to deal with his new loneliness. The way the songs rises and falls is a really great touch. I think you hit a rough patch with the next two songs, like feelsflow pointed out. Not much going on with these songs. "New Morning", however, is a great way to finish. Nice music, something resembling a melody, and a nice departure from the typical thing you'll find on this album. This is my other favorite.
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« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2014, 02:24:36 AM »

Mixed feelings have led to a delay of me commenting on this.

I saw Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds at a festival once, and while it was good, I remember thinking that, as far as watching six or so talented male musicians in suits playing moody music with a deep lead vocal goes, I'd rather be watching Tindersticks. But afterwards I thought that was an inexact comparison as Tindersticks were never a ROCK band like NC&tBS are. But then, I feel that if that is their strength, they don't always live up to it. They don't always sufficiently rock for the formula to work for me.

I have friends who adore Nick Cave and I usually keep quiet on the subject, because, while I think he's good, i don't think I really entirely get it. And I'm wary of making it sound that I dislike it more than I do. It's just one of those artists I hear at other peoples' houses and find agreeable enough but never listen to myself. I have heard a handful of great songs by him that transcend this vague indifference.

Now, on this particular album, which fits my notion and stereotype of what a Nick Cave album sounds like, there is one song that does really rock to me, and consequently is my favourite by some way. That song is "Deanna". I think I saw it on TV once and it thrilled me but I kind of forgot about it. Regarding the lyrics, I guess I don't understand the obsession with murder and evil. I'm not a horror buff. I had to smile at the captain's line: "I always feel like he's leading a joke-band at a Halloween party". However, here, I don't care what the lyrics are, it's just a great song.

"The Mercy Seat" is another strong song, but it doesn't engage me in the same way. Whenever I hear harmonica on the album it pleases me but it doesn't always rescue the song in question. I was not so keen on "Watching Alice" (so far, anyway), and found "Mercy" a bit too much to take.

Besides "Deanna", other songs by him that stick in my mind as standouts are "Limestone Arbor", "Do You Love Me" and "Henry Lee" (though I think that last one is traditional). I keep meaning to check out the Birthday Party.

I used to think record reviewing was an easy job! Now I see that it takes several listens to have much meaningful to say about an album or to judge it properly (I hope its not the same with film reviewing). And the trouble is, if a record isn't to your taste, forcing yourself to listen to it repeatedly in a short space of time turns you against the record unfairly.

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« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2014, 11:29:47 AM »

I appreciate your comments, UB.

I'm envious of you having seen them live, they seem like they would put on a really great show. Although, I think to call them a rock band is a bit limiting when applied to them. They seem to understand that musical restraint is just as important music as musical assault is. They're experts at setting a mood, whether that be descending into an urban hell, being set to the electric chair, or about a missing carny. I find that you can really lose yourself in their songs.

"Deanna" is a great song. I don't fully understand the obsession with the dark corners of humanity either, but dammit if I don't love it when he sings "And we'll unload into their heads". "Henry Lee" is a traditional song, but Nick added some stuff to it for their recording of it during Murder Ballads. The Birthday Party is a very interesting band, definitely worth looking into if you like weird post-punk music.

Yes, this is a great example of your stereotypical Cave album, but if I had realized I was fighting a bit of an uphill battle, I probably would have chosen differently. I think it's interesting that even though you guys for the most part don't particularly enjoy Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds, you can still appreciate what it is they do.
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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2014, 02:33:57 PM »

I appreciate your comments, UB.

I'm envious of you having seen them live, they seem like they would put on a really great show. Although, I think to call them a rock band is a bit limiting when applied to them. They seem to understand that musical restraint is just as important music as musical assault is. They're experts at setting a mood, whether that be descending into an urban hell, being set to the electric chair, or about a missing carny. I find that you can really lose yourself in their songs.


Life's not fair, you're envious I got to see a band I wasn't all that bothered about. It was Glastonbury 1998, they were preceded that day by - in order - Tony Bennett, Bob Dylan, and Sonic Youth, and followed by Pulp. Not sure how often Bob Dylan has been fourth on a festival bill.

I think the musical restraint you speak of was what I was kind of hoping for and expecting, but felt the want of. I'm trying to express that I felt they fell between the two stools of a truly subtle and powerful band like Tindersticks (specifically their peak around the time of their second album), and a truly rockin' band like... probably Grinderman. But its happening again, every time I write about Nick Cave I feel like I'm being a jerk.
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« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2014, 03:54:30 PM »

Nah, you're just saying what you think - which is the point.  An example of the difference between the restraint and assault is "John Finn's Wife", like I mentioned to feelsflow earlier. I think it's a good song, it's here if you wanna check it out: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ADpHWOqE8i8

I'll have to look into Tindersticks.
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« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2014, 02:25:22 PM »

Tried a couple of Tindersticks videos, pretty good.  Watched the video for "Henry Lee" with PJ Harvey.  "Lime Tree Arbor" - hey, a happy feel-good song!  "Into My Arms" - powerful.  "Are You the One That I've Been Waiting For" - hopeful.  You just have to look around to find a happier Nick.  Lots of great tracks on The Good Son.  He really progressed in the 90's after he got together with Warren Ellis.  Haven't got to his 2000's tracks yet, except Grinderman.  Listened to "I Let Love In" again - much better on second listen.  Bubbly, I can see how you and others like him so much.  This cat is very talented.   Also been immersing myself in Nick's (and Warren Ellis') soundtrack work.  The other day I watched a live video with Ellis doing manic moves playing violin - said it was the Bad Seeds, now thinking it may have been Grinderman.  He's impressive.  Will have a report done by tomorrow.
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« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2014, 04:42:21 PM »

Grinderman was important.  Warren Ellis is important.  Nick's music took a leap with the boatman's call (1997), the first album I've found where Ellis is fully incorporated into the band - read tho he had some input since 1995.  I haven't listened to both of their albums, but what I did play was all good.  And good idea for Nick to spice things up with a look back to his earlier style played with present day smarts.

The biggest surprise this week?  Discovering Nick's movie work.  He wrote the screenplay for The Proposition (2005), a movie I like a lot.  As good as The Unforgiven and fits Nick's outlook to a T.  Set in the Australian outback of the 1880's, it's all about murder and mayhem in the week leading up to Christmas.  The proposition is for one outlaw to kill another (his own brother) to gain his freedom.  If you haven't seen it, wait til later.  It's not a Christmas-y movie (well, Bubbly might think so). Razz  First saw it in 2007, and don't remember noticing Nick's involvement.  Probably just a name scrolling down the screen - I barely knew who he was til a few weeks ago.  It touches on some of my earlier comments about some of Nick's music sounding like spaghetti westerns - that wasn't a put down, I love 'em.  Those tracks probably led to Nick being picked to score this one and one I'm about to mention.  Anyway, couldn't believe it when a reviewer compared this movie to Sergio Leone.  Roger Ebert (4 out of 4 stars) described it as "A movie you can't turn away from; it is so pitiless and uncompromising, so filled with pathos and disregarded innocence, that it is a record of those things we pray to be delivered from."  Again, something I said in a similar way discussing Nick's music.

Nick and Warren did the music for The Proposition. It's quite good.  Even better was that team being asked to score The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007).  It's full of great music.  Tracks like "Gun Thing" - with a Nick vocal, isn't so different than a Bad Seeds number.  Other favorites: "Rather Lovely Thing" "The Last Waltz" and "Song for Jesse" -which sounds like something you would hear coming out of a music box.  Simple and beautiful and the best one here.  "Cowgirl" is well named, as it reminds me of Neil's "Round and Round" from the first Crazy Horse album.  "Carnival" is right out of Waits' grab-bag of melodies.  Great instrumental.  "What Happened Next" - with a full orchestra is another highlight.  It just soars.  Here's the link:  http://youtu.be/pJfXlNRPn5c

You're on your own with The Proposition.  The clips aren't all playable, but enough are there to give you an idea.

bonus clip:  http://youtu.be/yZV7ndRJfWg     -good stuff.     
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« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2014, 05:09:34 PM »

Considering you seem to like Ellis so much, you might want to check out his band, the Dirty Three. I haven't listened to them, but they seem well-regarded. I find it interesting you seem to like Warren Ellis' involvement in the band as much as you do. Actually, a lot of fans prefer when Nick's main collaborator was Mick Harvey, and seem to dislike Warren Ellis' growing influence in the band. I haven't gotten to the point where Ellis becomes really important yet, so I don't really have an opinion on the two collaborators.
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« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2014, 07:21:08 PM »

I don't know enough to say that either.  I don't have a solid opinion on the early Cave albums.  I listened to some Birthday Party stuff and Nick's first one, then skipped to Tender Prey when you picked it.  Other than some of the Grinderman tracks, I focused on Nick's releases through the boatman's call.  I do think that was a leap, but I haven't listened enough times to say it's his best album.  Like Waits I'm getting more accustomed to his voice.  When you have a lot of soul you don't have to have a perfect voice.  Ask any Dylan fan.  And that was as much Nick's choice to do so many piano based tracks - he seems very inspired.  He wrote all those songs by himself.  Warren is just a player, I was impressed by his playing.  Mick and Blixa are good as well.  Hope Mick's not reading my post and wanting to know "why, Harris, why do you think he's more important than Me? - I'm Nick's main Guy!"  Grin   Maybe I overstated saying Ellis was important.  I was impressed with the soundtracks.  That was the purpose of my post.  Also I love strings, he's a very good violin player.  Give them a listen when you get a chance.  Nick's did more movie work where I haven't seen the movie.  It's not just the music with The Proposition, that's a well written screenplay.  That's all Nick.

Nick didn't start writing with Ellis until 2001's no more shall we part, and then only two songs.  IIRC both Warren and Mick are given credit for string arrangements.  Nick wrote everything on 2004's Nocturama.  Can't really comment on the double album from 2004, but Ellis gets 6 out of 17 credits.  The Proposition was recorded for the most part in 2004.  Then the Grinderman album and Jesse James movie.  Nick may have been responsible for most of the writing - I don't know, they get co-credit.  They did some sort of package putting together what they thought was the best of the duo work.  Ellis gets more writing credits on Dig, Lazarus, Dig!!! - I've read that is a great album.

I'll give the Dirty Three a listen.  Your pick has given me incentive to check out the rest of Nick's catalogue.  
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 07:46:19 PM by feelsflow » Logged

...if you are honest - you have no idea where childhood ends and maturity begins.  It is all endless and all one.  ~ P.L. Travers        And, let's get this out of the way now, everything I post is my opinion.  ~ Will
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