Mike and Bruce Tour 2015

[HeyJude]

yet Al still isn’t one of the guys Mike is pursuing.

Jones Beach 2014

Some reports at the time indicated the tour/show promoter (was it Live Nation? I can’t remember for sure) pursued Al, and that *that* was part of what was off-putting about the whole ordeal to Al. I think one of Al’s sons in that ugly Facebook back-and-forth said Al was off-put that the offer came from the promoter and not Mike.

It also seemed quite possible that, regardless of who pursued him, the idea was to add in more “original” Beach Boys because the ticket sales were lagging for that particular show (that the promoter was involved at all in inviting Al would seem to support this theory; the thing seemed different from the scenarios where Mike just asks Dave to sit for a show here and there). It was also a case of one show, not a permanent spot in the band.

Even among the conflicting reports/stories I’ve heard of Jones Beach, no version of the story suggested Mike was offering Al a regular/permanent spot in the band.

[filledeplage]

That latest clip shows what a pale shadow M&B are of the BBs sound. The soundstage show from BW better captured the BBs sound even with revamped songs for the guests.

Clips are not always representative of live performances.  Having seen three this week, if anything they are far from anemic. Reliance on a cheap cell phone doesn't always make for good and informed judgment.  Soundstage had professional recording, not a cell phone.

BB/BW reminds me of the old drive-in movies.  If one misses the half before or after intermission you've missed the "whole show."  

[HeyJude]

That latest clip shows what a pale shadow M&B are of the BBs sound. The soundstage show from BW better captured the BBs sound even with revamped songs for the guests.

Clips are not always representative of live performances.  Having seen three this week, if anything they are far from anemic. Reliance on a cheap cell phone doesn't always make for good and informed judgment.  Soundstage had professional recording, not a cell phone.

BB/BW reminds me of the old drive-in movies.  If one misses the half before or after intermission you've missed the "whole show."  

As objective as I can be about this, I would say that having Al in the harmony stack makes it sound, to me, much closer to that familiar “Beach Boys” sound than any example I’ve heard from Mike’s band. Al’s voice is in such good shape, and sounds similar enough to his voice from even decades back, that his voice is a key element. It has made Brian’s band better (and being in Brian’s band has made Al better).

Normally even I wouldn’t think so, and I’m not even really advocating for it, but if Mike’s band added Al, it would sound much better and in particular much more authentic.

Mike’s band sounds fine, professional and tight. Much better than the first five or so years after Carl and Al were gone. But there is, in my opinion, another band out there that, with Brian and Al (and Matt Jardine to boot), that literally sounds measuredly more like the “Beach Boys.” This wasn’t the case when Al wasn’t in Brian’s band. I still feel Brian’s band was more superb and fuller and richer in sound. But it would be a toss-up in terms of which band actually sounds more like “The Beach Boys.” But Al really tips the scale in any band’s favor that he joins. He’s the most impotent, minimized guy in the business organization, yet he artistically yields the most power in some ways. Weird times.

[Bud Shaver]

...He’s the most impotent, minimized guy in the business organization, yet he artistically yields the most power in some ways. Weird times.

Reminds me of the punchline "...If I'm gonna be impotent, I better dress impotent."

[Eric Aniversario]

That latest clip shows what a pale shadow M&B are of the BBs sound. The soundstage show from BW better captured the BBs sound even with revamped songs for the guests.

Clips are not always representative of live performances.  Having seen three this week, if anything they are far from anemic. Reliance on a cheap cell phone doesn't always make for good and informed judgment.  Soundstage had professional recording, not a cell phone.

BB/BW reminds me of the old drive-in movies.  If one misses the half before or after intermission you've missed the "whole show."  

As objective as I can be about this, I would say that having Al in the harmony stack makes it sound, to me, much closer to that familiar “Beach Boys” sound than any example I’ve heard from Mike’s band. Al’s voice is in such good shape, and sounds similar enough to his voice from even decades back, that his voice is a key element. It has made Brian’s band better (and being in Brian’s band has made Al better).

Normally even I wouldn’t think so, and I’m not even really advocating for it, but if Mike’s band added Al, it would sound much better and in particular much more authentic.

Mike’s band sounds fine, professional and tight. Much better than the first five or so years after Carl and Al were gone. But there is, in my opinion, another band out there that, with Brian and Al (and Matt Jardine to boot), that literally sounds measuredly more like the “Beach Boys.” This wasn’t the case when Al wasn’t in Brian’s band. I still feel Brian’s band was more superb and fuller and richer in sound. But it would be a toss-up in terms of which band actually sounds more like “The Beach Boys.” But Al really tips the scale in any band’s favor that he joins. He’s the most impotent, minimized guy in the business organization, yet he artistically yields the most power in some ways. Weird times.

I have enjoyed many Mike/Bruce shows, Brian shows, Al shows, and Dave shows, and the C50 shows. I'd argue that Al's BBFF shows were the closest to the Beach Boys that I've heard and seen. The players in the Endless Summer Band/BBFF played with the Beach Boys for decades and those arrangements that they used were a continuation of their long term use through the 70s, 80s, 90s, etc.

[drbeachboy]

That latest clip shows what a pale shadow M&B are of the BBs sound. The soundstage show from BW better captured the BBs sound even with revamped songs for the guests.

Clips are not always representative of live performances.  Having seen three this week, if anything they are far from anemic. Reliance on a cheap cell phone doesn't always make for good and informed judgment.  Soundstage had professional recording, not a cell phone.

BB/BW reminds me of the old drive-in movies.  If one misses the half before or after intermission you've missed the "whole show."   

As objective as I can be about this, I would say that having Al in the harmony stack makes it sound, to me, much closer to that familiar “Beach Boys” sound than any example I’ve heard from Mike’s band. Al’s voice is in such good shape, and sounds similar enough to his voice from even decades back, that his voice is a key element. It has made Brian’s band better (and being in Brian’s band has made Al better).

Normally even I wouldn’t think so, and I’m not even really advocating for it, but if Mike’s band added Al, it would sound much better and in particular much more authentic.

Mike’s band sounds fine, professional and tight. Much better than the first five or so years after Carl and Al were gone. But there is, in my opinion, another band out there that, with Brian and Al (and Matt Jardine to boot), that literally sounds measuredly more like the “Beach Boys.” This wasn’t the case when Al wasn’t in Brian’s band. I still feel Brian’s band was more superb and fuller and richer in sound. But it would be a toss-up in terms of which band actually sounds more like “The Beach Boys.” But Al really tips the scale in any band’s favor that he joins. He’s the most impotent, minimized guy in the business organization, yet he artistically yields the most power in some ways. Weird times.

I have enjoyed many Mike/Bruce shows, Brian shows, Al shows, and Dave shows, and the C50 shows. I'd argue that Al's BBFF shows were the closest to the Beach Boys that I've heard and seen. The players in the Endless Summer Band/BBFF played with the Beach Boys for decades and those arrangements that they used were a continuation of their long term use through the 70s, 80s, 90s, etc.

I'd have to agree with you. I saw The Endless Summer Band around 2004 or so, and it definitely was the closest to the old Beach Boys shows.

[CenturyDeprived]

That latest clip shows what a pale shadow M&B are of the BBs sound. The soundstage show from BW better captured the BBs sound even with revamped songs for the guests.

Clips are not always representative of live performances.  Having seen three this week, if anything they are far from anemic. Reliance on a cheap cell phone doesn't always make for good and informed judgment.  Soundstage had professional recording, not a cell phone.

BB/BW reminds me of the old drive-in movies.  If one misses the half before or after intermission you've missed the "whole show."  

As objective as I can be about this, I would say that having Al in the harmony stack makes it sound, to me, much closer to that familiar “Beach Boys” sound than any example I’ve heard from Mike’s band. Al’s voice is in such good shape, and sounds similar enough to his voice from even decades back, that his voice is a key element. It has made Brian’s band better (and being in Brian’s band has made Al better).

Normally even I wouldn’t think so, and I’m not even really advocating for it, but if Mike’s band added Al, it would sound much better and in particular much more authentic.

Mike’s band sounds fine, professional and tight. Much better than the first five or so years after Carl and Al were gone. But there is, in my opinion, another band out there that, with Brian and Al (and Matt Jardine to boot), that literally sounds measuredly more like the “Beach Boys.” This wasn’t the case when Al wasn’t in Brian’s band. I still feel Brian’s band was more superb and fuller and richer in sound. But it would be a toss-up in terms of which band actually sounds more like “The Beach Boys.” But Al really tips the scale in any band’s favor that he joins. He’s the most impotent, minimized guy in the business organization, yet he artistically yields the most power in some ways. Weird times.

I have enjoyed many Mike/Bruce shows, Brian shows, Al shows, and Dave shows, and the C50 shows. I'd argue that Al's BBFF shows were the closest to the Beach Boys that I've heard and seen. The players in the Endless Summer Band/BBFF played with the Beach Boys for decades and those arrangements that they used were a continuation of their long term use through the 70s, 80s, 90s, etc.

Wish I could have gotten to see one of the Al's BBFF shows.

How good they were was all the more reason why Mike probably felt threatened by those shows. Had to have be embarrassing for Mike to have a band not called The Beach Boys, containing Beach Boy(s) members and playing Beach Boys songs to receive far better reviews than the touring band actually called The Beach Boys. All the more reason to put a stop to them and claim that the reason was solely in the interest of avoiding market confusion... not that ego could possibly have even 0.0001% to do with it. Sad.

[Rocker]

This slideshow was just posted by The Beach Boys' Facebook page:

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/music/index.ssf/2015/04/the_beach_boys_prove_there_is.html


Including this:





So are they using the '60s Do It Again promoclip?

[HeyJude]

That latest clip shows what a pale shadow M&B are of the BBs sound. The soundstage show from BW better captured the BBs sound even with revamped songs for the guests.

Clips are not always representative of live performances.  Having seen three this week, if anything they are far from anemic. Reliance on a cheap cell phone doesn't always make for good and informed judgment.  Soundstage had professional recording, not a cell phone.

BB/BW reminds me of the old drive-in movies.  If one misses the half before or after intermission you've missed the "whole show."  

As objective as I can be about this, I would say that having Al in the harmony stack makes it sound, to me, much closer to that familiar “Beach Boys” sound than any example I’ve heard from Mike’s band. Al’s voice is in such good shape, and sounds similar enough to his voice from even decades back, that his voice is a key element. It has made Brian’s band better (and being in Brian’s band has made Al better).

Normally even I wouldn’t think so, and I’m not even really advocating for it, but if Mike’s band added Al, it would sound much better and in particular much more authentic.

Mike’s band sounds fine, professional and tight. Much better than the first five or so years after Carl and Al were gone. But there is, in my opinion, another band out there that, with Brian and Al (and Matt Jardine to boot), that literally sounds measuredly more like the “Beach Boys.” This wasn’t the case when Al wasn’t in Brian’s band. I still feel Brian’s band was more superb and fuller and richer in sound. But it would be a toss-up in terms of which band actually sounds more like “The Beach Boys.” But Al really tips the scale in any band’s favor that he joins. He’s the most impotent, minimized guy in the business organization, yet he artistically yields the most power in some ways. Weird times.

I have enjoyed many Mike/Bruce shows, Brian shows, Al shows, and Dave shows, and the C50 shows. I'd argue that Al's BBFF shows were the closest to the Beach Boys that I've heard and seen. The players in the Endless Summer Band/BBFF played with the Beach Boys for decades and those arrangements that they used were a continuation of their long term use through the 70s, 80s, 90s, etc.

Good point. I saw one of the late-era “Family and Friends” shows in 2000. Wendy and Carnie were still there, but it was billed as “Al Jardine Family & Friends Beach Band.” But yeah, maybe the best vocal blend of any BB-related show I’ve been to, with the possible exception of C50.

[Lee Marshall]

"The only album that was not touched upon, unsurprisingly, was the 2012 Beach Boys reunion album "That's Why God Made the Radio," which was recorded with former members Brian Wilson and Al Jardine. (Love recently told lehighvalleylive.com in a phone interview that he thought the recording could have been better.)"...from the Dustin Schoof/Express Times article.

2 points...

1...More foot in mouth/mad cow disease

2...As is evidenced by No Pier Pressure...TWGMTR probably would have sounded better...if HE hadn't been on it.  

MAN!!!  It's SO hard to respect that guy.  [ The art all too often WAY outdistances this 'artist'...yet I listen because the art is SO great ]

[CenturyDeprived]

"The only album that was not touched upon, unsurprisingly, was the 2012 Beach Boys reunion album "That's Why God Made the Radio," which was recorded with former members Brian Wilson and Al Jardine. (Love recently told lehighvalleylive.com in a phone interview that he thought the recording could have been better.)"...from the Dustin Schoof/Express Times article.
 

Honest question: does anyone actually think this is not sour grapes? I'm not saying TWGMTR couldn't have been better - it surely could have, and Mike is not incorrect... but still. Has Mike ever said anything remotely to the effect of "the recording could have been better" with regards to recordings he had more political control over? Like SIP, BB85 (?), or anything like that? I cannot honestly believe he thinks all that stuff is pure gold, either. There's just not been any political "reason" for him to, years after the fact, bring it up to put it down, has there?

The only self-deprecating item I've heard from Mike about his own stuff is when he seemed embarrassed when Brian mentioned the mere existence of Looking Back With Love at the campfire session.

[drbeachboy]

"The only album that was not touched upon, unsurprisingly, was the 2012 Beach Boys reunion album "That's Why God Made the Radio," which was recorded with former members Brian Wilson and Al Jardine. (Love recently told lehighvalleylive.com in a phone interview that he thought the recording could have been better.)"...from the Dustin Schoof/Express Times article.
 

Honest question: does anyone actually think this is not sour grapes? Not saying TWGMTR couldn't have been better - it surely could have... but still. Has Mike ever said anything remotely to the effect of "the recording could have been better" with regards to recordings he had more political control over? Like SIP, BB85 (?), or anything like that? I cannot honestly believe he thinks all that stuff is pure gold, either. There's just not been any political "reason" for him to, years after the fact, bring it up to put it down, has there?

The only self-deprecating item I've heard from Mike about his own stuff is when he seemed embarrassed when Brian mentioned the mere existence of Looking Back With Love at the campfire session.

We all know why he said what he said. He really is carrying a hard-on over not writing with Brian for that album.

[CenturyDeprived]

"The only album that was not touched upon, unsurprisingly, was the 2012 Beach Boys reunion album "That's Why God Made the Radio," which was recorded with former members Brian Wilson and Al Jardine. (Love recently told lehighvalleylive.com in a phone interview that he thought the recording could have been better.)"...from the Dustin Schoof/Express Times article.
 

Honest question: does anyone actually think this is not sour grapes? Not saying TWGMTR couldn't have been better - it surely could have... but still. Has Mike ever said anything remotely to the effect of "the recording could have been better" with regards to recordings he had more political control over? Like SIP, BB85 (?), or anything like that? I cannot honestly believe he thinks all that stuff is pure gold, either. There's just not been any political "reason" for him to, years after the fact, bring it up to put it down, has there?

The only self-deprecating item I've heard from Mike about his own stuff is when he seemed embarrassed when Brian mentioned the mere existence of Looking Back With Love at the campfire session.

We all know why he said what he said. He really is carrying a hard-on over not writing with Brian for that album.

I think that Mike must feel that not getting to write in a room with Brian is the 2nd biggest artistic slight of his entire life, perhaps 2nd only to the unfair 1960s crediting snafu (which of course, was legitimately completely unfair to Mike). In the history of this band, I don't think there's been another instance of somebody complaining in the media repeatedly about being slighted about something, over and over again, directly or indirectly. I want to empathize with Mike, I really do, and I can on some level, but it's very hard to fully do so, because there *must* have been some legit reasons why the room situation didn't happen, which I don't think Mike will ever accept or consider.  

[HeyJude]

Some of the post-C50 negativity is the common thing we see in countless cases, where it’s easier to air grievances after the fact. They’ve all done that to varying degrees.

When one is no longer tied contractually or financially to a project or a person, it’s easier to just “tell it like it is.” I’d commend Mike for being professional enough to even finish out C50 if he really disliked elements of it as much as he seems to claim, but that could just as easily have as much to do with not wanting to breach any contracts.

While Mike’s interviews (as many people do) seem to have an agenda when it comes to C50, we have been able to glean some interesting information as far as some things he didn’t like. I think a lot of them are just curiosities that weren’t large factors in not continuing with the full lineup. But interesting nonetheless. But a lot of the stuff (especially in that recent David Beard “interview”) comes across as having a specific point to make (e.g. not being the reason another Beach Boys album didn’t happen) and then trying to round up any evidence or reasons available to try to prove it (e.g. no “concrete” offers for future projects, etc.) rather than just simply saying “I wanted to do my own thing, and didn’t like how the Beach Boys project was going.”

Especially given recent events, I have to admit I’m surprised at the possibility that Mike truly is more bent out of shape about Brian’s album (its existence, the articles implying it could have been a Beach Boys album, Brian rounding up four Beach Boys, etc.) than I would have thought.

[Cam Mott]

I think it is much simpler and more tragic than that. Nobody turned down doing more reunion shows and nobody turned down another album. It sounds to me like they just did not get together as a band (BRI) to even talk about plans for either. I say shame on Brian, Mike and Al.

[Doo Dah]

I'd like to think he's a big enough man to let sleeping dogs lie, but his recent commentary on C50 seems to belie a sensitivity on the Brian hype machine. We'd all like to 'let it go' (even though we love to revisit)...but hell, he CAN'T let it go! It's an obsession for him.

On an interesting side note (don't know if this has been reported) - Mike is slated to be a celebrity judge at the Lower East Side Film Festival in New York (June 11th - 21st). They play Norway on June 6th, Brooks, CA on June 20th, so who knows how long he'll be there.

http://www.lesfilmfestival.com/

Wouldn't It Be Nice if he were present for a screening of Love and Mercy? Oh to be a reporter for THAT Q&A...

[Tony S]

Saw Al's BBFF Band back in the day, at Great Adventure in New Jersey. I remember the huge stadium was virtually empty, maybe 200 people. maybe, in the whole place. We got up, left our seats, and stood down in the front of the stage. I've seen all the configurations, and for my money, BBFF was probably the best sounding of them all, and the most Beach Boy like.

[HeyJude]

Saw Al's BBFF Band back in the day, at Great Adventure in New Jersey. I remember the huge stadium was virtually empty, maybe 200 people. maybe, in the whole place. We got up, left our seats, and stood down in the front of the stage. I've seen all the configurations, and for my money, BBFF was probably the best sounding of them all, and the most Beach Boy like.

Especially if they were still billed at that stage as "Beach Boys Family & Friends", it goes to show how little "confusion" there was as to whether the band was "THE Beach Boys", and how little Al's band was actually cutting into the market share for "THE Beach Boys."

[Cam Mott]

Also the talk of extended extended C50 concerts were of Wrigley Field and Madison Square Garden. Wasn't Wrigley's concert season over for 2012 by the end of C50? Phish had been booked for NYE at Mad Ave for 2012. The promoters must have really been talking about 2013 which would make it more damning of BRI not getting together to discuss the concerts and album in a way because extra time to consider.

[RubberSoul13]

Also the talk of extended extended C50 concerts were of Wrigley Field and Madison Square Garden. Wasn't Wrigley's concert season over for 2012 by the end of C50? Phish had been booked for NYE at Mad Ave for 2012. The promoters must have really been talking about 2013 which would make it more damning of BRI not getting together to discuss the concerts and album in a way because extra time to consider.

I was under the impression that those were being considered for 2013, but it was never clearly stated. Perhaps New Years was offered to them for 2012 early in the year and they declined? We'll never know.

I think the best thing to do would've been to give it a rest, as they did, but not under the circumstances that they did. It makes re-igniting this harder than ever before.

[c-man]

Saw Al's BBFF Band back in the day, at Great Adventure in New Jersey. I remember the huge stadium was virtually empty, maybe 200 people. maybe, in the whole place. We got up, left our seats, and stood down in the front of the stage. I've seen all the configurations, and for my money, BBFF was probably the best sounding of them all, and the most Beach Boy like.

They certainly came the closest to catching the spirit of the '70s-'90s touring band, both in terms of lineup and setlist.

[guitarfool2002]

I think it is much simpler and more tragic than that. Nobody turned down doing more reunion shows and nobody turned down another album. It sounds to me like they just did not get together as a band (BRI) to even talk about plans for either. I say shame on Brian, Mike and Al.

So the reports of a meeting being requested to discuss a press release about clarifying the touring situation, a press release then being issued by one of the parties before anyone else had seen it or discussed it at a meeting...those are false?

There is a possibility it happened exactly as outlined in the LA Times articles, fall 2012.

[Cam Mott]

I think it is much simpler and more tragic than that. Nobody turned down doing more reunion shows and nobody turned down another album. It sounds to me like they just did not get together as a band (BRI) to even talk about plans for either. I say shame on Brian, Mike and Al.

So the reports of a meeting being requested to discuss a press release about clarifying the touring situation, a press release then being issued by one of the parties before anyone else had seen it or discussed it at a meeting...those are false?

There is a possibility it happened exactly as outlined in the LA Times articles, fall 2012.

"After Mike booked a couple of shows with Bruce, Al and I were, of course, disappointed. Then there was confusion in some markets when photos of me, Al and David and the 50th reunion band appeared on websites advertising his shows.

At that point my attorney merely suggested to Mike's attorney that a possible press release in those markets might be appropriate to stop the confusion, which was in no one's best interest. That's it, plain and simple, and a strategy was open for discussion, which never happened.

That’s why I was completely blindsided by his press release. I had no idea that it was coming out, since it was crafted by Mike's personal PR firm without my knowledge or approval. No one in my camp would have approved it or the timing.

I'm disappointed that Mike would now say that the release was done at the request of my representative. The first I heard about it was at the Grammy Museum event. We hadn't even discussed as a band what we were going to do with all the offers that were coming in for more 50th shows.

Al and I just assumed based on everyone's enthusiasm we would at least want to take those offers into consideration since we all knew about them. I mean, who wouldn't want to play the Hollywood Bowl again, Madison Square Garden and Wrigley Field? And what better way to celebrate New Year's Eve than with the 50th band? That would have blown the lid off things."

Sounds like more assuming without discussion all around, like it sounds they all did about the concerts and album.

[Mikie]

Saw Al's BBFF Band back in the day, at Great Adventure in New Jersey. I remember the huge stadium was virtually empty, maybe 200 people. maybe, in the whole place. We got up, left our seats, and stood down in the front of the stage. I've seen all the configurations, and for my money, BBFF was probably the best sounding of them all, and the most Beach Boy like.

That was a good band! You had Al, Matt, and Adam Jardine, Billy Hinsche, Daryl Dragon, Carnie and Wendy Wilson, and Owen Elliott (daughter of Cass).

Then Owen dropped out to have a baby and Daryl left too. Never found out why Daryl left. Maybe to help rejuvinate the C & T career. Still have some BBF&F Cd's someplace....

[guitarfool2002]

I think it is much simpler and more tragic than that. Nobody turned down doing more reunion shows and nobody turned down another album. It sounds to me like they just did not get together as a band (BRI) to even talk about plans for either. I say shame on Brian, Mike and Al.

So the reports of a meeting being requested to discuss a press release about clarifying the touring situation, a press release then being issued by one of the parties before anyone else had seen it or discussed it at a meeting...those are false?

There is a possibility it happened exactly as outlined in the LA Times articles, fall 2012.

"After Mike booked a couple of shows with Bruce, Al and I were, of course, disappointed. Then there was confusion in some markets when photos of me, Al and David and the 50th reunion band appeared on websites advertising his shows.

At that point my attorney merely suggested to Mike's attorney that a possible press release in those markets might be appropriate to stop the confusion, which was in no one's best interest. That's it, plain and simple, and a strategy was open for discussion, which never happened.

That’s why I was completely blindsided by his press release. I had no idea that it was coming out, since it was crafted by Mike's personal PR firm without my knowledge or approval. No one in my camp would have approved it or the timing.

I'm disappointed that Mike would now say that the release was done at the request of my representative. The first I heard about it was at the Grammy Museum event. We hadn't even discussed as a band what we were going to do with all the offers that were coming in for more 50th shows.

Al and I just assumed based on everyone's enthusiasm we would at least want to take those offers into consideration since we all knew about them. I mean, who wouldn't want to play the Hollywood Bowl again, Madison Square Garden and Wrigley Field? And what better way to celebrate New Year's Eve than with the 50th band? That would have blown the lid off things."

Sounds like more assuming without discussion all around, like sounds about the concerts and album.

So how does it become "shame on Al and Brian" from the original comment if they requested a meeting with all parties, assumed the touring situation would be discussed and perhaps clarified so all parties and partners knew what was happening (and it was a business partnership), discuss crafting an official statement for the public, only to have such a statement come out without any discussion or approval...a statement which (and it can be reposted here too) effectively scotched any future C50 plans?

I think it would be strange to blame anyone for assuming without discussing when a discussion meeting was actually requested only to see a public statement come out before the parties had a chance to discuss it at that requested meeting that never happened before the PR release. Maybe it's just me.