Mike and Bruce Tour 2015

[guitarfool2002]

While searching for the original date for the late 90's rider, I ran across this. Bedtime reading material. Note Stamo's guitar requirements. Look familiar to someone else's guitars? Sorry if it's been posted previously - didn't feel like wading through the arguments.....

http://www.zaphodproductions.com/about-us/the-beach-boys

Mikie, you are the man...how you found that...anyway, thanks for posting! Clears things up. So it's confirmed. A 2014 Beach Boys contract rider that says basically the same thing as the one on Smoking Gun about promotional materials and advertising for the concerts.

All promotional materials and advertising must be approved. Which means however much anyone wants to read into that regarding statements made in these press releases, errors made in those press releases, and various correct or incorrect promotional materials used in those press releases.

Nice find, Mikie. That helped clear up some doubts or debates about the contract situation.

[Micha]

Today I'm puzzled. I'm puzzled about sweetdudejim. If you want to reply to this post of mine, please read all of it first.

First sweetdudejim attacks Cam in - excuse the wording - Brianista style:

I must be in your head. You've managed to go like three posts without absolving Mike of responsibility for all the bad things related to him. You better get back on that bud!

It seems to me for some time that certain posters have a quasi-religious take on their antipathy against Mike, like a belief so strong it becomes unreceptive to rational argumentation, and here sweetdudejim uses a word like "absolve" which clearly is a reference to religion.

He continues with, after a short AGD praising, a short attack on the same AGD with some "Brianista" acrimony:

However, you do seem to have become a bit starry-eyed because of your recent induction into Club Kokomo.

"Induction into Club Kokomo" - come on!!! This isn't some kind secret society that really exists, and you know that! To phrase your opinion that AGD is biased in Mike's favor that way is bad style (and actually made me use the word "Brianista" here in an equally bad style, my bad).


AND THEN... in the SAME POST...


...sweetdudejim gives us a perfect example how criticism of Mike should be done in an appropriate and reasonable way:

(...) a lot of the time he just brings it on himself by being so damn insecure. He always seems to have this need to puff his chest out and tell us how great he is. And why? Any of us with a brain cell knows he sang some of the most popular, classic leads in music history. We know that he wrote the lyrics to classics like "I Get Around" and "California Girls" and "Good Vibrations". We also know he's co-written some really tender, artistic stuff like "Please Let Me Wonder", "Aren't You Glad" and "All This Is That". And that's only scratching the surface. The dude is a legend, and if he stopped trying to remind us that "Kokomo" was a huge hit and that it him, yes ladies and gentleman, him who co-wrote it without any help from Cousin Brian, many of us would probably be much more understanding of Mike's thoughts on The Beach Boys and his place in the group.

I mean, to put it in perspective, it would be like George Harrison bragging about how successful "Got My Mind Set On You", "When We Was Fab" and the Cloud Nine album was in 1987, while constantly pointing out how Paul McCartney hadn't had a hit like that in a while. I mean, I'm sure George had a bit of resentment built up due to being slighted next to Lennon and McCartney, just as Mike does when he's slighted next to Brian. However, it seems that whereas George decided to let his accomplishments speak for themselves, Mike needs to point out again and again and again how he did "Kokomo", how he didn't do drugs, how he took the guitar out of McCartney's hands and played him "Back in the U.S.S.R.", how he kept touring and flying The Beach Boys flag while Cousin Brian was being lazy, etc.

It all just reeks of a sad, insecure man. And I don't say this to make fun. I think it's a shame. I don't think he should be insecure. He's done a lot of great sh*t, and hopefully will do some more. I don't doubt that Mike's a good family man who wants to provide for his wife and daughter and everybody. I'm sure he does love "Cousin Brian". But I just think he's either tone deaf to how pathetic the bragging and everything looks. I will say one thing though. I was going to complain how he tackily wears a "Beach Boys" hat everywhere even though he's the lead singer. Then I thought about it. I think since he came from next to nothing and he has that middle-American, conservative, business-owner vibe, he just likes wearing the hat showing the logo of his business (The Beach Boys) just as the guy down the street who owns his own pool cleaning company likes wearing his polo shirt with his companies logo on it. For pride. They are proud of their work and they wanna show it off. The only difference is that in rock 'n roll you don't see stuff like that. I doubt you're gonna catch Pete Townshend with a Who logo on his sports coat or Keith Richards sporting a shirt with a pair of the Stones lips on it. They're "too cool" for that. Mike isn't. For better or worse.

With this criticism of Mike I absolutely agree.

[guitarfool2002]

One of those 3 riders used to have the line the band was not to be referred to as 'an oldies act' or the like. That was back in the 80s.

2014 as well.

[Andrew G. Doe]

While searching for the original date for the late 90's rider, I ran across this. Bedtime reading material. Note Stamo's guitar requirements. Look familiar to someone else's guitars? Sorry if it's been posted previously - didn't feel like wading through the arguments.....

http://www.zaphodproductions.com/about-us/the-beach-boys

Mikie, you are the man...how you found that...anyway, thanks for posting! Clears things up. So it's confirmed. A 2014 Beach Boys contract rider that says basically the same thing as the one on Smoking Gun about promotional materials and advertising for the concerts.

All promotional materials and advertising must be approved. Which means however much anyone wants to read into that regarding statements made in these press releases, errors made in those press releases, and various correct or incorrect promotional materials used in those press releases.

Nice find, Mikie. That helped clear up some doubts or debates about the contract situation.

Amazing find. Bravo Mikie. However, as regards the highlighted bit, I have this to say: at work, I have a thing called "proceedure", which states how things must be done, and of course so does everyone else in employment, from brain surgeons down to road sweepers. This is part of my contract and must be strictly adhered to, on pain of disciplinary action. Except... I don't. Like everyone else, I cut corners, or do things my way. Because... it's human nature. Sometimes, it's unavoidable, as in keeping no more than £XXX in the till at any time: other times, it's just a pain to follow, so I don't because it's easier. So, I'm guessing (and I'll check, later) that either not every single item of promo material is signed off, or that the venue & promoters don't submit everything for approval. Over the last few years I've brought several examples of what we're discussing to the attention of Mike's people, and every single time, they've expressed exasperation, not gone "oops, my bad" (er, as if they would...).

And while I'm here, to answer a small section of sweetdudejim's outstanding post, I give Cam & Pinder something of a pass because, while they're certainly playing essentially the same tune, they do vary the melody line somewhat, they do refrain from provocative and profane language while so doing, and they do post on other topics.

Am I starry eyed ? No. I'm 59 and deeply cynical. Am I hugely flattered (and surprised) that first Bruce, then Mike, initiated contact with me on a personal level and let me become, if not a friend, then certainly an acquaintance ? sh*t yes, of course, just as you would be. Am I a fully paid-up member of Club Kokomo ? 'Course not, but I'm not arrogant enough to deny any bias. Jon had a leaning towards David, Ray's been Brian's close friend for decades (and en passant, I'm pleased and proud to call Ray a friend, online and in real life), I tend to stand up for Mike (especially when it all gets very, very silly, or personally abusive). But above all, we're Beach Boys fans. All of... actually, no, on recent evidence, not all of us here are Beach Boys fans. The vast majority of us here are beach Boys fans first and foremost. I loved the music way before I knew who was who and I wish with every fiber of my being I was still in that state of blissful ignorance and just digging the songs. But I don't have a Delorian.

This board has its spasms every now and them, like a dog shedding fleas and when that's done, it plods on until the next upheaval. Nothing much ever changes. It's like work: generally I like it a lot, but I don't like everyone involved.

Let Dobie Gray have the final word:

And when my mind is free
You know a melody can move me
And when I'm feelin' blue
The guitar's comin' through to soothe me

Thanks for the joy that you've given me
I want you to know I believe in your song
And rhythm and rhyme and harmony
You've helped me along
Makin' me strong

Oh, give me The Beach Boys* and free my soul
I wanna get lost in your rock and roll and drift away...

[* I know. Shut up.  ]

[guitarfool2002]

Re: The highlighted part. Naturally procedures in place do not always get followed and sometimes the mechanism simply breaks down. I think, though, it is worth considering that the contract rider posted back on page 2 of this thread has been argued, debated, dissected, etc, not to mention the motivation for posting it in the first place being questioned up to page 14. And it turned out that everything which I had posted about it and argued regarding dates/relevancy and the like was correct since it was first posted here (I know, get over myself, right?   ) - The wording of that original link on page two no matter what year it dates from 1998 onward is still in place in a 2014 touring contract for the Beach Boys. That's the way many contracts, whether they be the fine print on a bill of sale to a standard loan contract from a bank exist, the main wording of it often stays basically the same as long as the same party owns it, and whatever changes or tweaks need to be made through the years sometimes do not affect a bulk of the wording already in place, as a lot of it is procedural or defining things which do not change through the years. Again, stuff that was pointed out pages ago.

What triggered some of this was seeing some of the claims made in the text of promotional materials as recent as the Ryman, and as recent as shows from this fall. Not to mention the outdated band photos, etc. The ones which stood out were the claims made regarding Mike's role with the Endless Summer project. One release (as we've debated to death already) claiming it was Mike's concept album, the other stating Mike produced Endless Summer.

For fans who know the album and its history, those stand out as contradictions, along with a few other lines from those releases regarding other parts of the band's history. Grammy awards that never happened, the wording of certain claims, etc. But the one we're discussing is specifically Endless Summer.

So fans read this, something doesn't quite add up, and we're wondering how something like this gets printed if in those contract riders it says that promotional materials can also be provided, including biographical information to those booking the band and signing the contract. Which suggests the promo materials can be sent to the venue/promoters and printed verbatim, if necessary.

An incorrect band photo or a mislabeled booking header is the type of issue and mistake that has been pointed out and will be corrected.

But claims of producing an album or suggesting things about it which some fans don't believe is entirely accurate, as in the case of Endless Summer - it doesn't make sense to see claims like that if the materials are handled as the contract suggests. When an article promoting the upcoming show is put through the process, would the writers on their own add a production credit for Endless Summer on their own initiative? If it's a mistake, will it be corrected as well?

[Dancing Bear]

Why are we such dicks to each other?

Exactly. I have a shot at posting some of my thoughts on all this, and want to cover just a few things, but first I'd like to address this:

As mentioned previously, this thread was clearly started as an attempt at trolling and it has succeeded spectacularly.

I think Billy does a fine job as a moderator with little assistance but I think lessons can be learnt from this. The thread could have been closed or, at the very least. actions should have been taken to keep it in order.

First of all, I have a thick skin and stuff like this rolls off rather easily. Others may not.

So the question is, why would you post a cheap shot like that inside of a discussion which saw a number of posters calling for civility, respect, less personal attacks, and a less cynical or negative tone overall on the board? What was the purpose of posting a flippant remark like that, was there a reaction from me or from anyone else you had hoped to get in return? Was it to start something up, get someone angry enough to start engaging a pissing match again?

I honestly don't know, but I'm curious. I'm doing this to point out something which will be addressed later. The remark itself means nothing to me, but again in the context of these calls for less of the personal attacks and more of the civility, why include this in a reply?

Feel free to contact anyone off the board. Seriously. If something is done by the mods or otherwise that upsets you, or that you have a question about or an issue with, drop a line.

I called this out to use as an example, I don't care who said it or who specifically it was targeted to, but at some point the tendency to post a cheap shot like this may be what everyone is sick and tired of seeing in general, particularly between posters  who are known to each other in this "community".

And also, consider if someone who read this and felt it was a personal attack, if some of the suggestions being made about deleting posts, censoring posts, responding a certain way to personal attacks in general...the poster here would be subject to a warning or a ban, right?

That's why I cannot see enforcing anything close to the standard which it seems some are advocating. Someone's definition of a personal attack might be different than another, so who decides how much someone should or should not take a flippant remark to heart versus ignoring it?

I think he meant "little assistance... from the posters who keep attacking each other". 

[Cam Mott]

Wow. I just read all of the pages in this thread and I'm glad to see order somewhat restored.  I really enjoyed reading AGD's post regarding how he views the band.

I just wanted to mention this (it was more appropriate to the discussion many pages ago) regarding the Smoking Gun rider.  I can tell you with absolute certainty that the rider (or parts of different riders) on that site is definitely not a rider being used by Mike and Bruce post 2007.  I have seen every rider from them as well as the C50 tour as I work for a venue that has booked them every year since 2007. 

So "Shark", if that really is your name (just kidding). To your knowledge has your venue ever been provided with false or possibly misleading content for promotion by MELECO or anyone connected with the Beach Boys of the sort some venues cited in this thread have published? (I may not be a big city lawyer but I paced back and forth with my thumbs hooked in my suspenders while typing)

[Cam Mott]

Re. controversial promotion: We had a couple of venues highlighted as having controversial copy in their event promotion, did anyone check all of the other venues to see if they are publishing the same "controversy"? In other words, is there a pattern or just a few offenders?

[halblaineisgood]

.

[Shark]

Cam- to my knowledge we have never been provided anything misleading by Beach Boys management.  As I said, we were provided with the updated band photo for the 2014 appearance.  We never post performer bios so we never request them from the artists. Do some places cut corners or get lazy?  I'm sure they do.  I could see it being done very easily if a venue booked the C50 tour and then booked Mike and Bruce last year.  A lazy employee in advertising (and one who probably has no interest in the band) could very easily say, "We've booked the Beach Boys before.  It was just 2 years ago!  I have all the advertising for that show saved.  All I have to do is change the date on the collateral for this show.  Makes my job easier!"

And on a personal note, obviously I have posted very little on this board.  I read it for years and joined in 2012.  I posted a long while ago under "Shark" on the Male Ego board.  Back in the days of Mike's the Greatest taking on Dan Davidson and a guy named Alan.  After Junkstar shut that board down, I started reading this one.  Just never registered until a couple of years ago.  In my opinion, even though this board sometimes breaks down in personal attacks, it is by far the best Beach Boys message board going and has been for quite some time.  I love the insiders who post here as well as the historians like AGD, Stebbins, etc.

[Cam Mott]

Cam- to my knowledge we have never been provided anything misleading by Beach Boys management.  As I said, we were provided with the updated band photo for the 2014 appearance.  We never post performer bios so we never request them from the artists. Do some places cut corners or get lazy?  I'm sure they do.  I could see it being done very easily if a venue booked the C50 tour and then booked Mike and Bruce last year.  A lazy employee in advertising (and one who probably has no interest in the band) could very easily say, "We've booked the Beach Boys before.  It was just 2 years ago!  I have all the advertising for that show saved.  All I have to do is change the date on the collateral for this show.  Makes my job easier!"

And on a personal note, obviously I have posted very little on this board.  I read it for years and joined in 2012.  I posted a long while ago under "Shark" on the Male Ego board.  Back in the days of Mike's the Greatest taking on Dan Davidson and a guy named Alan.  After Junkstar shut that board down, I started reading this one.  Just never registered until a couple of years ago.  In my opinion, even though this board sometimes breaks down in personal attacks, it is by far the best Beach Boys message board going and has been for quite some time.  I love the insiders who post here as well as the historians like AGD, Stebbins, etc.

Solid!   

[Jim V.]

Hey Micha, I appreciate your questioning, and I'm gonna try to be honest as can be answering this stuff.

Today I'm puzzled. I'm puzzled about sweetdudejim. If you want to reply to this post of mine, please read all of it first.

First sweetdudejim attacks Cam in - excuse the wording - Brianista style:

I must be in your head. You've managed to go like three posts without absolving Mike of responsibility for all the bad things related to him. You better get back on that bud!

With Cam, it's not about "Brian or Mike" in my opinion. He, honestly, is just annoying to me. I've noticed he's never, ever participated in threads about the music or anything pertaining to it. He only pops up when he can "defend Mike" either about stuff that happened during the SMiLE era, or C50, or defending how he releases bios with braggadocios untruths in them. I feel like he's just always playing defense, and never giving an inch. Very OSD-like in my opinion. Even AGD pointed out that him and Pinder always seem to go to their obvious defensive postures when an argument comes along, (although he says that they don't bug him like OSD and SMiLE Brian because they aren't quite as vulgar, which I'm not sure I agree with). I pointed out how Cam acts like he's just "sticking to (and looking for) the facts" except of course when the facts don't agree with his agenda. But yeah, I'm sure I've been overly critical of him. He just strikes me as the Ted Cruz of this board. And I don't like Ted Cruz. Just admit you're wrong sometimes Cam. I know you won't though.

It seems to me for some time that certain posters have a quasi-religious take on their antipathy against Mike, like a belief so strong it becomes unreceptive to rational argumentation, and here sweetdudejim uses a word like "absolve" which clearly is a reference to religion.

Not a mistake, and good eye catching that. However, my use of absolve is more about how there are people (Cam, Pinder) who are religiously trying to "turn the tables" and show that Mike is just a good little Beach Boys soldier and has always just happened to be in the line of fire, never being of any blame when those infamous Beach Boys quarrels have taken place. And any fan, of Brian, Mike, Dennis, whoever, would be able to say that their favorite guy hasn't majorly screwed up the group's trajectory before. So for people like those posters to feed us that BS, it's just a bit rich. I'd like to think I'm pretty fair about spreading around the blame in these events. And while I feel like OSD might be super unfair against Mike, Pinder and especially Cam are super unfair for Mike. And neither of these things are good for a clearheaded evaluation of the group and their continuing history.

He continues with, after a short AGD praising, a short attack on the same AGD with some "Brianista" acrimony:

However, you do seem to have become a bit starry-eyed because of your recent induction into Club Kokomo.

"Induction into Club Kokomo" - come on!!! This isn't some kind secret society that really exists, and you know that! To phrase your opinion that AGD is biased in Mike's favor that way is bad style (and actually made me use the word "Brianista" here in an equally bad style, my bad).

With AGD, I'll be honest. I've had private conversations with him outside of public view, and I think he knows I greatly respect his work and his inside view of a lot of Beach Boys land. And, in my opinion, the Club Kokomo thing is just a bit of ribbing. Hell, even Pinder has jokingly alluded to the fact that he is part of Club Kokomo. There's obviously no real group. But even Andrew himself has admitted that access to Mike has changed his tune a bit. But yeah, I guess I coulda been a little less snarky about it. I do feel that Andrew knows it's good natured though. Hopefully.

[Cam Mott]

Are you trying to insult me or something? Whatever you keep attempting to do, I guess it is fine with the Mods so carry on.

I comment on what I comment. Am I in violation of a board rule?

[CenturyDeprived]

Hey Micha, I appreciate your questioning, and I'm gonna try to be honest as can be answering this stuff.

Today I'm puzzled. I'm puzzled about sweetdudejim. If you want to reply to this post of mine, please read all of it first.

First sweetdudejim attacks Cam in - excuse the wording - Brianista style:

I must be in your head. You've managed to go like three posts without absolving Mike of responsibility for all the bad things related to him. You better get back on that bud!

With Cam, it's not about "Brian or Mike" in my opinion. He, honestly, is just annoying to me. I've noticed he's never, ever participated in threads about the music or anything pertaining to it. He only pops up when he can "defend Mike" either about stuff that happened during the SMiLE era, or C50, or defending how he releases bios with braggadocios untruths in them. I feel like he's just always playing defense, and never giving an inch. Very OSD-like in my opinion. Even AGD pointed out that him and Pinder always seem to go to their obvious defensive postures when an argument comes along, (although he says that they don't bug him like OSD and SMiLE Brian because they aren't quite as vulgar, which I'm not sure I agree with). I pointed out how Cam acts like he's just "sticking to (and looking for) the facts" except of course when the facts don't agree with his agenda. But yeah, I'm sure I've been overly critical of him. He just strikes me as the Ted Cruz of this board. And I don't like Ted Cruz. Just admit you're wrong sometimes Cam. I know you won't though.

Is it any wonder that the people on this board who have the hardest time admitting they may be wrong, even just giving an inch sometimes, are the most fervent at defending the BB who by most accounts seems to fit that similar personality type?  This cannot be a mere coincidence.

[Dudd]

Are you trying to insult me or something? Whatever you keep attempting to do, I guess it is fine with the Mods so carry on.

I comment on what I comment. Am I in violation of a board rule?

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Are you trying to insult me or something? Whatever you keep attempting to do, I guess it is fine with the Mods so carry on.

I comment on what I comment. Am I in violation of a board rule?

What an appropriate cover for mike's upcoming saga. I so need to have this hatless rendering of the lovester adorn an entire wall in the man cave. absolutely PRICELESS, Dudd and thank you!!

[KittyKat]

This board has jumped the shark. But most of the members don't pay for it so it's up to those who do to do something about it. If anything. It's not that important, and neither are the Beach Boys, including Brian Wilson, who is not God or Mozart. 

[halblaineisgood]

.

[Cam Mott]

You know people could stop making it personal and insulting and stick to content. Just a thought.

[guitarfool2002]

Here is my personal opinion post on the recent events, speaking solely for myself. I thought about what to write, what to say, and wanted to address some of the comments, suggestions, and criticisms on the last several pages of this discussion.

A lot can happen off the board, via PM's and otherwise. Sometimes there are complaints, reported posts, or just people who know each other having a bull session about the board if something is upsetting, or any other case.

I am one of those who before being asked to join two of the best people on this board to moderate had some issues with the negativity. It's simply the way I felt. Others felt that way too, but were not vocal or even public about it. Not only regular posters, but some really good people who felt there was a tide of negativity including what were perceived as personal attacks related to various news that would come out about Brian Wilson. I know others disagreed strongly, I know I got called out several times for it, but just like some have issues and posted them here, I had issues and posted them there too.

With that in mind, there were suggestions and calls to have some new rules put into place regarding posts that would be considered personal attacks, including those directed at band members and associates. I have tried to explain where I stand on this, basically I feel it could set up a situation of more censorship than an open forum would suggest. And beyond that, who sets the standards with which the offending posts would be judged? What qualifies for a ban, what qualifies as a joke, what qualifies as an off-the-cuff statement? Is it a case like the old statement about judging indecent material, "you'll know it when you see it..."? Is it a case of judging who is posting versus what they are posting? Is someone's standard more harsh for one band member or individual over another? Is it really an issue of content or the way something was expressed? All those things come into play. Do we want that?

So to show some of what I have had in the back of my mind in all this, what I remember of some of the discussions mostly from this past year but a few possibly older, I am going to post some comments which have appeared on the board in various discussions, most of them related to what I'd term a "Brian Wilson" topic or thread.

I'm posting these anonymously, and I am NOT doing this to call anyone out or point fingers or anything of the sort. I am also not trying to cherrypick a "worst of" or target anyone or anything to make a better point, I'm just pulling some examples that I remembered.

What I want to do is show the type of posts that some fans did find offensive, some that did cross the line in some opinions, and some that were posted in response to the various discussions where the negativity directed at Brian was happening. Again, no names necessary, no calling out...just a cross-section of those posts.

Consider this, in the name of seeing all sides. If you were a fan coming onto the board for the first time, and you saw any number of these posts, what would the impression of the board be? If you were a member of Brian's family, and saw some of these, what would your reaction be?

Most important, if you were in a position to moderate or control the posts on the board based on what is offensive or considered a personal attack, how would any of *these* fall into that standard of what is or isn't appropriate? Or, should any of these posters have been warned officially for any of these words? All things to consider, again in the spirit of seeing another side in all of this.

In italics:

1. I'm just saying, Brian doesn't have a fucking clue who any of these people are, and all of a sudden picks them out of everybody in the universe to record music with.  It's forced.  It's bullshit.  It's fake, and I can smell it a mile away.  This bodes BADLY for the album.

2. Yes, Al is being asked questions about the "end" of the reunion, but you would think Al, a 72 year-old man who has seen so much go wrong in his band, would find a more tactful and appropriate way to answer these questions. I mean, take the high road, show a little class, if you have any.
If you don't like speculation or an honest opinion, then click on.... What I really find sad (mad?) about Al's comments is that he doesn't appear to realize that he is being used by Brianandhiswifeandmanagers just to sell tickets. Sure, Al alone ain't gonna sell many tickets, but he does add something to the package, and that's what Melinda is selling - a package deal. I really think Brian could care less whether or not Al Jardine is on stage with him. But, maybe they do like his over-the-top praising of Brian, his constant ass-kissing, and his forced laughter at every syllable Brian utters.

3. Brian took advantage of his family and wrongly hogged all the creative credit of lots of songs and solely profited from that theft from his family.  Mike sat on his lip for thirty years without a word of ever taking credit for lots of his creativity in lots of songs while Brian was fucking him over and not only taking all of the credit for but also all of the money.  Who is the credit hog and over self promoter and selfish prick that is callous toward their family? 

4. I felt that Brian looked like a puppet and I could almost see a Eugene Landy-like hand in control of him.

5. Shouldn't it have the word "advertising" inserted in it, as PR pieces once were in news venues?   This isn't just talking about the album in a positive way, it's re-writing its history, for those who have been following along. It's not doing Brian any favors, either, to put words in his mouth. He didn't know most of these artists. Somebody or other decided to introduce them to him and to have him work with them. Being honest about that is less of a negative than lying about it. I'm sure Tony Bennett had to be told about some of the people he did duets with, too.

6. I do wish Brian had better/ less greedy handlers. He really shouldn't be touring.

7. Unreal! Who would question that Pulitzer Prize winner Jason Fine for issuing PR shill stuff in the guise of a news article! Ooops, I shouldn't have said that! I'm sooooo sorry! That's real journalism, end of story! END OF STORY! I have to get my smug, condescending, patronizing hat on and start writing five paragraph posts how we should only write positive things about the music of 72 year old Brian Wilson, who is FULLY in control of every note written on his new album. He wrote every song, every note! He arranged every flyspeck on e every chart played on by Jeff Beck and all other session players. He decided every song that was to appear on the album. He produced it all, sliding every slider. He hand-picked every singer who appeared on the album, deciding all the way to last year to have Lana Del So and So and Frank Ocean to sing on his album, because they are his favorite artists, because Jason Fine said they are his favorite artists. Sure, I have to believe that, he's 72  I can't wait to hear it. It will be the best thing since "Pet Sounds" and every bit of an example of how Brian is in total control.  Joe Thomas is just there to worship him from afar. Probably working for free, like a student auditing a master class

8. As far as SMiLE is concerned, Leaf and Prioire both heaped praises on the Brian's posse during the SMiLE period. But seeing them during the Beautiful Dreamer documentery (especially Loren) made me want to take a shower afterwards. THESE were the great thinkers around Brian? Vosse, Loren, etc. Sheesh, the word leeches come to mind. Only Van Dyke and David Anderle were worth a damn. And from someone who knows him well, Van Dyke has some Mike Love in him. Take that for what it is worth.

9. By the time I reach the second song on TWGMTR, the pitch correction is like fingernails scraped down a blackboard. I've been consistent in my contempt for the production of this album since it was released. Judging by the 10 second clip, this album will be no different.

10. You do realize he can't name these songs or the singers singing them. It's all so forced.


Then, here are a few replies that were posted in the middle of several discussions related to those posts.

- Your opinion is not welcomed here. Pay attention! Certain posters will tell you what you should think and say. If you want to think and say something that is critical of Brian Wilson...don't. It's not welcomed here, unless you can find an honored guest to come on to back you up. Good luck with that. The studio janitors might have some interesting things to say, though.

- I mean just the amount of social media Mike bashing is absolutely staggering. Nor can I remember a single Mike fan (yes we do exist) ever suggesting that Mike bashers should not even be allowed to put their feelings out there in cyber-land. We should be wary of what such suggestions might someday lead to.... I suggest trying on the sort of thick skin Mike fans (and most "Beach Boys" fans) have to endlessly wear. It might be heavily informative.

- I want to thank those who are telling us what we should think, how we should feel, and what we should or shouldn't post. That way we won't be subjected to the asinine and clueless opinions from those "who don't get it". Thank you again and keep up the good work.


The last three: Should those statements and opinions apply equally to some of the current issues raised in this thread?






 

[Debbie Keil-Leavitt]

This board has jumped the shark. But most of the members don't pay for it so it's up to those who do to do something about it. If anything. It's not that important, and neither are the Beach Boys, including Brian Wilson, who is not God or Mozart. 

But it's right there in Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Lippincott

"...Shortly thereafter, Andy made posthumous appearances in the strip, first declaring "Brian Wilson is God" in a note found in his hand (having been listening to Pet Sounds on CD as he died),[2] and then making several more days of appearances in a self-made video shown during his memorial service.[3]..."

Doonesbury wouldn't lie to us...http://aug72.tumblr.com/post/62983592406/crackatyourlove-brian-wilson-is-god-a

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well that settles it, then - if it's in Wikipedia, it must be true. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

With Cam, it's not about "Brian or Mike" in my opinion. He, honestly, is just annoying to me. I've noticed he's never, ever participated in threads about the music or anything pertaining to it.

Have to defend The Camster here: I've known him via the BB online community for, oh, well over a decade, and in that time he's done some sterling original research on such arcane subjects as the Capitol art dept (he's the dude who got in touch with the man who lettered the Smile album title and discovered that there was absolutely no significance in the lower case i - the guy just thought it looked nice), tracking down obscure players in the saga and generally filling in the odd unshaded corner. Not recently, I concede, but, he's also never, to my knowledge, used unacceptable language. I for one could learn from him in this respect.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Brian is not God or Mozart,  true...he's Brian Wilson, and that's good enough for me and most of the other people here, I'd imagine.

[Andrew G. Doe]

This board has jumped the shark.

No, I don't think so. It's just a worse spasm than usual: by and large we're pretty tolerant of the, ah, more confrontational posters, but every now and then everyone gets fed up with them at the same time, which is what just happened. The board will continue and it'll happen again sooner or later... and given the warnings just handed out, that should be most interesting.