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Author Topic: Mike and Bruce Tour 2015  (Read 390976 times)
Cam Mott
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« Reply #900 on: April 23, 2015, 09:02:21 PM »

I think it is much simpler and more tragic than that. Nobody turned down doing more reunion shows and nobody turned down another album. It sounds to me like they just did not get together as a band (BRI) to even talk about plans for either. I say shame on Brian, Mike and Al.



So the reports of a meeting being requested to discuss a press release about clarifying the touring situation, a press release then being issued by one of the parties before anyone else had seen it or discussed it at a meeting...those are false?

There is a possibility it happened exactly as outlined in the LA Times articles, fall 2012.

"After Mike booked a couple of shows with Bruce, Al and I were, of course, disappointed. Then there was confusion in some markets when photos of me, Al and David and the 50th reunion band appeared on websites advertising his shows.

At that point my attorney merely suggested to Mike's attorney that a possible press release in those markets might be appropriate to stop the confusion, which was in no one's best interest. That's it, plain and simple, and a strategy was open for discussion, which never happened.

That’s why I was completely blindsided by his press release. I had no idea that it was coming out, since it was crafted by Mike's personal PR firm without my knowledge or approval. No one in my camp would have approved it or the timing.

I'm disappointed that Mike would now say that the release was done at the request of my representative. The first I heard about it was at the Grammy Museum event. We hadn't even discussed as a band what we were going to do with all the offers that were coming in for more 50th shows.

Al and I just assumed based on everyone's enthusiasm we would at least want to take those offers into consideration since we all knew about them. I mean, who wouldn't want to play the Hollywood Bowl again, Madison Square Garden and Wrigley Field? And what better way to celebrate New Year's Eve than with the 50th band? That would have blown the lid off things."

Sounds like more assuming without discussion all around, like sounds about the concerts and album.


So how does it become "shame on Al and Brian" from the original comment if they requested a meeting with all parties, assumed the touring situation would be discussed and perhaps clarified so all parties and partners knew what was happening (and it was a business partnership), discuss crafting an official statement for the public, only to have such a statement come out without any discussion or approval...a statement which (and it can be reposted here too) effectively scotched any future C50 plans?

I think it would be strange to blame anyone for assuming without discussing when a discussion meeting was actually requested only to see a public statement come out before the parties had a chance to discuss it at that requested meeting that never happened before the PR release. Maybe it's just me.

I don't see where it says any meeting was requested. It sounds to me like a strategy was assumed on one hand and that a permission to release was assumed on the other but there was no actual discussion by Brian, Mike and Al.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 09:04:55 PM by Cam Mott » Logged

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« Reply #901 on: April 23, 2015, 09:25:54 PM »

Also it seems like it is being assumed that the press release about the rest of 2012 season prevented the additional concerts that were being touted but now it looks to me that those offers were actually for the 2013 season anyway, especially since it had also been said the promoters were actually suggesting them for the 2013 season.
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« Reply #902 on: April 23, 2015, 09:26:18 PM »

Al from the Grammy Museum thing in September 2012 (from WCSX Radio’s website):

Jardine told us at last night's opening of the Good Vibrations: 50 Years of The Beach Boys exhibit at L.A.'s Grammy Museum that he'd just spoken to Love a few minutes earlier: "I said I really do feel you need to rethink it, because there's so many opportunities left for us, and I'd really appreciate talking to you about it -- and he was agreeable to that."
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« Reply #903 on: April 24, 2015, 12:54:17 AM »

Saw Al's BBFF Band back in the day, at Great Adventure in New Jersey. I remember the huge stadium was virtually empty, maybe 200 people. maybe, in the whole place. We got up, left our seats, and stood down in the front of the stage. I've seen all the configurations, and for my money, BBFF was probably the best sounding of them all, and the most Beach Boy like.

Especially if they were still billed at that stage as "Beach Boys Family & Friends", it goes to show how little "confusion" there was as to whether the band was "THE Beach Boys", and how little Al's band was actually cutting into the market share for "THE Beach Boys."

They weren`t. This gig took place in 2004 I believe.

When Al could call himself BBF&F he was doing much better than playing to 200 people. Which is precisely why he fought so hard to be able to use the name.
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« Reply #904 on: April 24, 2015, 01:00:39 AM »

I would agree that Al`s group had the best overall sound if you include the vocals. Mainly because he and Matt sounded so much better than Mike and Brian at the time (obviously authenticity is another thing altogether). I can`t say they sounded anything like The Beach Boys though.

I think it`s fair to say that neither of the 2 touring bands now really sounds like The Beach Boys either. How could they when they each have 4 key parts of the classic vocal blend missing? Anyone with any sense would go to see either band while they have the chance though. Which is the better show will probably depend entirely on the type of venue.
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #905 on: April 24, 2015, 03:35:34 AM »

Al from the Grammy Museum thing in September 2012 (from WCSX Radio’s website):

Jardine told us at last night's opening of the Good Vibrations: 50 Years of The Beach Boys exhibit at L.A.'s Grammy Museum that he'd just spoken to Love a few minutes earlier: "I said I really do feel you need to rethink it, because there's so many opportunities left for us, and I'd really appreciate talking to you about it -- and he was agreeable to that."

Yes, they all assumed they would discuss the post C50 plans and offers. That's why it is so tragic. Instead of all of them running their mouths about it to the press they should have all been doing what they all were willing to do and all assumed they were going to do but they never did apparently.
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« Reply #906 on: April 24, 2015, 05:35:33 AM »

I would agree that Al`s group had the best overall sound if you include the vocals. Mainly because he and Matt sounded so much better than Mike and Brian at the time (obviously authenticity is another thing altogether). I can`t say they sounded anything like The Beach Boys though.

I think it`s fair to say that neither of the 2 touring bands now really sounds like The Beach Boys either. How could they when they each have 4 key parts of the classic vocal blend missing? Anyone with any sense would go to see either band while they have the chance though. Which is the better show will probably depend entirely on the type of venue.

I think which show one prefers also depends on which era of The Beach Boys one prefers.  While Mike is going to stick to mostly 1962-1967, and Brian is more likely to play a more diverse set. 

And this could be the last summer that both groups are touring at the same time.  And it's pretty unlikely that we'll have another summer with five BBs in two bands are on the road (six if David sticks with Mike's group past June). 
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« Reply #907 on: April 24, 2015, 06:22:28 AM »

That Jardine interview blurb where he seems to be kind of desperately trying to get Mike to talk it over doesn’t strike me as a case where they all came to a mutual agreement to have a meeting, only for it to somehow tragically never come to pass.

That scenario came across to me as a case where one guy was fine just going back to the way it was without any further discussion (by both his words and actions, e.g. booking shows for his own band while the reunion tour was still ongoing), and another guy who sadly not only wanted the reunion to continue, but sort of comically and tragically seemed to actually think he could talk the other guy into reconsidering.

It reads like someone asking the other person to reconsider a decision that had already been made, NOT an attempt to have a discussion about future band decisions that were still up in the air. The thing was pretty much over and a fork stuck in it by the time they were doing that Grammy Museum thing. I guess we can perhaps criticize Al for being naïve enough to believe it could still work out, but we can’t shame him or Brian for it ending. 
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« Reply #908 on: April 24, 2015, 06:32:43 AM »

While I don't like to lament the end of the C50 too much.  I know it was agreed upon going into it that it was just for 50 dates (eventually 74). 

But, I think that agreement was reached before they know how well the tour and album were going to be received. 

It's too bad that they couldn't all sit in a room together and at least discuss some future tours. 

But, it is what it is.  At least we got one really good album and tour out of it. 

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« Reply #909 on: April 24, 2015, 06:33:01 AM »

Saw Al's BBFF Band back in the day, at Great Adventure in New Jersey. I remember the huge stadium was virtually empty, maybe 200 people. maybe, in the whole place. We got up, left our seats, and stood down in the front of the stage. I've seen all the configurations, and for my money, BBFF was probably the best sounding of them all, and the most Beach Boy like.

Especially if they were still billed at that stage as "Beach Boys Family & Friends", it goes to show how little "confusion" there was as to whether the band was "THE Beach Boys", and how little Al's band was actually cutting into the market share for "THE Beach Boys."

They weren`t. This gig took place in 2004 I believe.

When Al could call himself BBF&F he was doing much better than playing to 200 people. Which is precisely why he fought so hard to be able to use the name.

I didn’t remember that Carnie and Wendy were still doing “Family & Friends” gigs with Al as late as 2004. My recollection was the few scattered shows they did under non-BBFF names only went into 2001 or 2002 or so. My recollection is Al started doing post-BBFF gigs with basically Carnie and Wendy replaced by guys from the Surfaris and Rip Chords, but didn’t do a bunch of those gigs and then reverted to what he’s been doing since, which is basically doing his own band (essentially BBFF without Carnie and Wendy, and probably Adam), or booking gigs with variations of Dean Torrence and/or David Marks.

Al *was* doing better booking shows as “BBFF”, but even during that one year of touring in 1999, the bookings were still scattered and sometimes in weird venues and locations. He was still just doing a lot of festivals and fairs, and even a gig in Alaska. While there was publicity back then about the various “BBFF” trademark lawsuits and whatnot, I don’t think it was until several years later that I fully realized how much those lawsuits curtailed Al’s ability to tour. He couldn’t use the BBFF name, and he couldn’t even call himself a “Beach Boy” for quite some time. The already hit-and-miss level of bookings from 1999 pretty much immediately dried up by 2000. The show I saw in May of 2000 billed as “Al Jardine Family & Friends Beach Band” was a case where I got the feeling (which could have been totally wrong) that Al could very well have made that booking in 1999 as “BBFF” and it was one of the few bookings where they let him keep it despite the name change. Even then, in 2000 with the *same* lineup, that show I saw didn’t have a huge turnout. Big outdoor amphitheater at a theme park, and everybody was sitting in the front, middle block of seats. Maybe 500 people? It was a free concert (although it required the $50 or whatever park admission). In any event, it was still a great show despite being rather short. Matt sang “Wild Honey.” And, a bit ironically considering recent developments, it's worth noting that Jardine's regular guitarist at the time, Craig Copeland, couldn't make the gig, so Ed Carter moved to guitar and none other than Randell Kirsche filled in on bass.

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« Reply #910 on: April 24, 2015, 09:03:11 AM »

That Jardine interview blurb where he seems to be kind of desperately trying to get Mike to talk it over doesn’t strike me as a case where they all came to a mutual agreement to have a meeting, only for it to somehow tragically never come to pass.

That scenario came across to me as a case where one guy was fine just going back to the way it was without any further discussion (by both his words and actions, e.g. booking shows for his own band while the reunion tour was still ongoing), and another guy who sadly not only wanted the reunion to continue, but sort of comically and tragically seemed to actually think he could talk the other guy into reconsidering.

It reads like someone asking the other person to reconsider a decision that had already been made, NOT an attempt to have a discussion about future band decisions that were still up in the air. The thing was pretty much over and a fork stuck in it by the time they were doing that Grammy Museum thing. I guess we can perhaps criticize Al for being naïve enough to believe it could still work out, but we can’t shame him or Brian for it ending. 


Except Mike says in that quote that he is agreeable to discussion and he also predicted during C50 that they would get together post C50 and decide what to do with the offers. They all are to blame in the same, they presumed instead of following through.
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« Reply #911 on: April 24, 2015, 09:28:52 AM »

Nah. The decision had already been made, shows booked. Hence asking Mike to "rethink" a decision that has already been made. Al's fault appears to be that he was too naive or optimistic.
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« Reply #912 on: April 24, 2015, 09:33:44 AM »

That Jardine interview blurb where he seems to be kind of desperately trying to get Mike to talk it over doesn’t strike me as a case where they all came to a mutual agreement to have a meeting, only for it to somehow tragically never come to pass.

That scenario came across to me as a case where one guy was fine just going back to the way it was without any further discussion (by both his words and actions, e.g. booking shows for his own band while the reunion tour was still ongoing), and another guy who sadly not only wanted the reunion to continue, but sort of comically and tragically seemed to actually think he could talk the other guy into reconsidering.

It reads like someone asking the other person to reconsider a decision that had already been made, NOT an attempt to have a discussion about future band decisions that were still up in the air. The thing was pretty much over and a fork stuck in it by the time they were doing that Grammy Museum thing. I guess we can perhaps criticize Al for being naïve enough to believe it could still work out, but we can’t shame him or Brian for it ending.  


Except Mike says in that quote that he is agreeable to discussion and he also predicted during C50 that they would get together post C50 and decide what to do with the offers. They all are to blame in the same, they presumed instead of following through.

I have heard from someone who was there at the Grammy Museum, employed in a behind-the-scenes capacity, that the backstage mood/vibe that he detected between the BB bandmembers was quite awkward/tense. Are all the parties involved to blame in some capacity for a lack of proper communication? Perhaps. Should any one party be singled out as being more to blame? Perhaps also. Mike and Bruce’s no-show at the wrap party/dinner event speaks volumes to me, that there was probably avoidance type tactics from that side earlier in C50 as well. I don't know why Brian is always singled out as the king of avoidance within this band.

I think Al and Brian were quite naive in thinking that Mike, just because he can do something, wouldn't absolutely just go ahead and do it anyway. Don't Fight the C50 - unless you're Mike - in which case, fight away.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 09:40:02 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #913 on: April 24, 2015, 09:37:48 AM »

Nah. The decision had already been made, shows booked. Hence asking Mike to "rethink" a decision that has already been made. Al's fault appears to be that he was too naive or optimistic.

Yes, 2012 had been booked. The offers were for 2013 apparently. Either way, Mike's "decision" was the group's agreed on default in that they all had not made a decision for the group post C50.
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« Reply #914 on: April 24, 2015, 09:42:19 AM »

I'll be interested to read about the fallout of the 2012 tour in both Brian's and Mike's upcoming books.

I'm sure somewhere in both of their stories, is the truth.   

And Jeff Foskett knows it!!!  And he ain't tellin'!!!! 

 Grin
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« Reply #915 on: April 24, 2015, 10:11:27 AM »

Implicit in the ending of an agreement (e.g. “C50”) is not that there is an agreement for anything to occur after. They don’t spell *anything* out  (either things that will or won’t happen) after the agreement ends; if it does spell something out that contractually has to happen, then the agreement hasn’t yet ended. There was no agreed-upon default after the end of the tour. They could all do whatever they wanted, or nothing at all. Brian and Mike did not “agree” for Mike to go back to his own band any more than they “agreed” that Van Halen would do another tour or that I would eat a sandwich tomorrow.
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« Reply #916 on: April 24, 2015, 11:19:27 AM »

C50 was a special agreement by all which had expired and touring defaulted to Mike's long standing and continuing agreement by all to tour with his licensed band.
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« Reply #917 on: April 24, 2015, 11:23:10 AM »

Implicit in the ending of an agreement (e.g. “C50”) is not that there is an agreement for anything to occur after. They don’t spell *anything* out  (either things that will or won’t happen) after the agreement ends; if it does spell something out that contractually has to happen, then the agreement hasn’t yet ended. There was no agreed-upon default after the end of the tour. They could all do whatever they wanted, or nothing at all. Brian and Mike did not “agree” for Mike to go back to his own band any more than they “agreed” that Van Halen would do another tour or that I would eat a sandwich tomorrow.

So, Mike is the reason that Van Halen is going out on tour this summer?  Thanks, Mike.   Smiley
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« Reply #918 on: April 24, 2015, 04:47:17 PM »



I didn’t remember that Carnie and Wendy were still doing “Family & Friends” gigs with Al as late as 2004. My recollection was the few scattered shows they did under non-BBFF names only went into 2001 or 2002 or so. My recollection is Al started doing post-BBFF gigs with basically Carnie and Wendy replaced by guys from the Surfaris and Rip Chords, but didn’t do a bunch of those gigs and then reverted to what he’s been doing since, which is basically doing his own band (essentially BBFF without Carnie and Wendy, and probably Adam), or booking gigs with variations of Dean Torrence and/or David Marks.

Al *was* doing better booking shows as “BBFF”, but even during that one year of touring in 1999, the bookings were still scattered and sometimes in weird venues and locations. He was still just doing a lot of festivals and fairs, and even a gig in Alaska. While there was publicity back then about the various “BBFF” trademark lawsuits and whatnot, I don’t think it was until several years later that I fully realized how much those lawsuits curtailed Al’s ability to tour. He couldn’t use the BBFF name, and he couldn’t even call himself a “Beach Boy” for quite some time. The already hit-and-miss level of bookings from 1999 pretty much immediately dried up by 2000. The show I saw in May of 2000 billed as “Al Jardine Family & Friends Beach Band” was a case where I got the feeling (which could have been totally wrong) that Al could very well have made that booking in 1999 as “BBFF” and it was one of the few bookings where they let him keep it despite the name change. Even then, in 2000 with the *same* lineup, that show I saw didn’t have a huge turnout. Big outdoor amphitheater at a theme park, and everybody was sitting in the front, middle block of seats. Maybe 500 people? It was a free concert (although it required the $50 or whatever park admission). In any event, it was still a great show despite being rather short. Matt sang “Wild Honey.” And, a bit ironically considering recent developments, it's worth noting that Jardine's regular guitarist at the time, Craig Copeland, couldn't make the gig, so Ed Carter moved to guitar and none other than Randell Kirsche filled in on bass.



What Al called his band for that show I`m not sure. But he played Great Adventure on 4th July 2004.

And exactly. A show in 2000 with the same line-up had a smaller turnout than the previous year because he couldn`t use The Beach Boys name to promote it anymore.

Randell Kirsch played quite a bit with Al I believe and is credited on the excellent live CD.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 05:27:56 PM by Nicko1234 » Logged
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« Reply #919 on: April 24, 2015, 05:24:25 PM »

What's the typical set list? They're playing at my college this summer.
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« Reply #920 on: April 24, 2015, 05:48:33 PM »

The usual meat and potatoes hits with a small sampling of 1970-present stuff. Nothing really revelatory or unheard live before.
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« Reply #921 on: April 25, 2015, 06:31:17 AM »

It's a fun show. I've enjoyed it each time I've gone.

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« Reply #922 on: April 25, 2015, 06:33:05 AM »

What's the typical set list? They're playing at my college this summer.

How about googling "Beach Boys setlists"?

http://www.setlist.fm/setlists/the-beach-boys-3d6c17b.html
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« Reply #923 on: May 04, 2015, 10:14:33 PM »

Probably nothing but I note this blurb added to several stories about up coming shows in Charleston. I guess the wording comes from the bands own press release.

'Though not on the road, Brian Wilson, Al Jardine and guitarist David Marks remain members of the Beach Boys.'


http://www.herald-dispatch.com/news/briefs/x417381301/Beach-Boys-to-perform-in-Charleston

http://www.wsaz.com/home/headlines/The-Beach-Boys-Coming-to-Charlest-302430351.html

http://www.wchstv.com/news/features/eyewitness-news/stories/Beach-Boys-To-Perform-June-29-at-Charleston-Municipal-Auditorium-126385.shtml


Any conspiracy theorists want to read anything in to this? Don't think I have seen this wording before.
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« Reply #924 on: May 04, 2015, 10:36:48 PM »

"In addition to permanent members Mike Love, guitarist Jeffrey Foskett and singer-keyboardist Bruce Johnston, the Beach Boys' touring lineup includes bassist Randell Kirsch, keyboardist Tim Bonhomme, drummer John Cowsill and guitarist Scott Totten. Though not on the road, Brian Wilson, Al Jardine and guitarist David Marks remain members of the Beach Boys."

This in bold must be news to Randell and Ike.

I'm not even touching that last line.
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