Is this for real?!

[Jeff Mason]

OK class, these are the 50 best songs of the 70s in order according to Cam's logic:

1 You Light Up My Life Deby Boone 1977
2 Bridge Over Troubled Water Simon and Garfunkel 1970
3 Joy To the World Three Dog Night 1971
4 The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face Roberta Flack 1972
5 Alone Again (Naturally) Gilbert O'Sullivan 1972
6 Tonight's the Night (Gonna Be Alright) Rod Stewart 1976
7 American Pie (Parts 1 and 2) Don McLean 1972
8 How Deep Is Your Love The Bee Gees 1977
9 Staylin' Alive The Bee Gees 1978
10 My Sharona The Knack 1979
11 One Bad Apple The Osmonds 1971
12 Shadow Dancing Andy Gibb 1978
13 Maggie May/Reason To Believe Rod Stewart 1971
14 It's Too Late/I Feel the Earth Move Carole King 1971
15 My Sweet Lord/Isn't It a Pity George Harrison 1970
16 Night Fever The Bee Gees 1978
17 Silly Love Songs Wings 1976
18 Le Freak Chic 1978
19 I'll Be There Jackson 5 1970
20 Best Of My Love The Emotions 1977
21 How Can You Mend a Broken Heart The Bee Gees 1971
22 A Horse With No Name America 1972
23 (They Long To Be) Close To You The Carpenters 1970
24 Bad Girls Donna Summer 1979
25 Reunited Peaches and Herb 1979
26 I Can See Clearly Now Johnny Nash 1972
27 Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Ole Oak Tree Dawn Featuring Tony Orlando 1973
28 My Love Paul McCartney and Wings 1973
29 You're So Vain Carly Simon 1973
30 Ain't No Mountain High Enough Diana Ross 1970
31 Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head B.J. Thomas 1970
32 Love Will Keep Us Together The Captain and Tennille 1975
33 Hot Stuff Donna Summer 1979
34 Without You Nilsson 1972
35 Da Ya Think I'm Sexy Rod Stewart 1979
36 Crocodile Rock Elton John 1973
37 I Will Survive Gloria Gaynor 1979
38 American Woman/No Sugar Tonight The Guess Who 1970
39 Let It Be The Beatles 1970
40 I Just Want To Be Your Everything Andy Gibb 1977
41 I Honestly Love You Olivia Newton-John 1974
42 December 1963 (Oh What I Night) The Four Seasons 1976
43 Three Times a Lady The Commodores 1978
44 Don't Go Breaking My Heart Elton John and Kiki Dee 1976
45 Me and Mrs. Jones Billy Paul 1972
46 I Think I Love You The Partridge Family 1970
47 The Way We Were Barbra Streisand 1974
48 50 Ways To Leave Your Lover Paul Simon 1976
49 Kiss You All Over Exile 1978
50 Family Affair Sly and the Family Stone 1971


In Cam's defense, that is actually a pretty dang fine list of music.  But it isn't the very best of the 70's, as punk, new wave, and hard rock are virtually non-existent on the list.  And no Elvis.  And Tonight's the Night STILL makes me barf, cringe, want to run barbed wire over my ears, etc.

[Jeff Mason]

Didn't you get the memo, Jeff? I'm Too Sexy and Rock Me Amadeus were two of the greatest songs ever written! They have to be, they were at #1 for about 3000 weeks!

WHO LET THE DAWGS OUT!  Who-who-who-who WHO LET THE DAWGS OUT!

Ice Ice, Baby!

[Jeff Mason]

As of 1971 these were the biggest pop acts ever.  Oops -- maybe the Beach Boys weren't so great after all....

Pos Artist
 Song Played
 Accomplishments
 
1 Elvis Presley
 Don't Be Cruel/It's Now Of Never/Suspicious Minds 18 #1 hits, 37 Top 10 hits, 95 Top 40 hits
2 The Beatles I Want To Hold Your Hand/Let It Be 20 #1 hits, 32 Top 10 hits, 47 Top 40 hits
3 Pat Boone Love Letters In the Sand 5 #1 hits, 12 Top 10 hits, 38 Top 40 hits
4 Connie Francis Who's Sorry Now 3 #1 hits, 16 Top 10 hits, 35 Top 40 hits
5 The Supremes Where Did Our Love Go 12 #1 hits, 20 Top 10 hits, 29 Top 40 hits
6 Rick Nelson Poor Little Fool 2 #1 hits, 17 Top 10 hits, 35 Top 40 hits
7 Ray Charles Hit the Road Jack 3 #1 hits, 11 Top 10 hits, 30 Top 40 hits
8 The Four Seasons Sherry 4 #1 hits, 13 Top 10 hits, 27 Top 40 hits
9 Fats Domino Blueberry Hill No #1 hits, 8 Top 10 hits, 36 Top 40 hits
10 Brenda Lee I'm Sorry 2 #1 hits, 12 Top 10 hits, 29 Top 40 hits
11 The Everly Brothers Bye Bye Love 3 #1 hits, 15 Top 10 hits, 27 Top 40 hits
12 James Brown I Got You (I Feel Good) No #1 hits, 6 Top 10 hits, 32 Top 40 hits
13 Marvin Gaye I Heard It Through the Grapevine 1 #1 hit, 12 Top 10 hits, 29 Top 40 hits
14 Bobby Vinton Blue Velvet 4 #1 hits, 8 Top 10 hits, 26 Top 40 hits
15 Bobby Darin Mack the Knife 1 #1 hit, 10 Top 10 hits, 22 Top 40 hits
16 Sam Cooke You Send Me 1 #1 hit, 5 Top 10 hits, 29 Top 40 hits
17 The Beach Boys Good Vibrations 3 #1 hits, 13 Top 10 hits, 27 Top 40 hits
18 The Rolling Stones (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction 5 #1 hits, 12 Top 10 hits, 18 Top 40 hits
19 The Temptations Ball Of Confusion (That's What the World Is Today) 3 #1 hits, 13 Top 10 hits, 27 Top 40 hits
20 The Miracles Shop Around 1 #1 hit, 4 Top 10 hits, 26 Top 40 hits
21 Paul Anka Diana 1 #1 hit, 8 Top 10 hits, 25 Top 40 hits
22 Nat King Cole Rambin' Rose No #1 hits, 6 Top 10 hits, 25 Top 40 hits
23 Perry Como It's Impossible 1 #1 hits, 7 Top 10 hits, 27 Top 40 hits
24 The Platters Smoke Gets In Your Eyes 2 #1 hits, 7 Top 10 hits, 23 Top 40 hits
25 Chubby Checker The Twist 3 #1 hits (one hit #1 twice), 8 Top 10 hits, 22 Top 40 hits
26 Dean Martin Everybody Loves Somebody 2 #1 hits, 5 Top 10 hits, 17 Top 40 hits
27 Brook Benton It's Just a Matter Of Time No #1 hits, 8 Top 10 hits, 24 Top 40 hits
28 Andy Williams Can't Get Used To Losing You 1 #1 hit, 8 Top 10 hits, 26 Top 40 hits
29 Frank Sinatra Strangers In the Night 2 #1 hits, 8 Top 10 hits, 27 Top 40 hits
30 The 5th Dimension Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In (The Flesh Failure) (Medley) 2 #1 hits, 5 Top 10 hits,15 Top 40 hits
31 Roy Orbison Oh, Pretty Woman 2 #1 hits, 9 Top 10 hits, 22 Top 40 hits
32 Areatha Franklin I Never Loved a Man (The Way I Loved You) 1 #1 hit, 10 Top 10 hits, 23 Top 40 hits
33 Dionne Warwick This Guy's In Love With You No #1 hits, 8 Top 10 hits, 22 Top 40 hits
34 Jackie Wilson Lonely Teardrops No #1 hits, 6 Top 10 hits, 24 Top 40 hits
35 Simon and Garfunkel Mrs. Robinson 3 #1 hits, 7 Top 10 hits, 13 Top 40 hits
36 Stevie Wonder Fingertips (Part 2) 1 #1 hit, 11 Top 10 hits, 20 Top 40 hits
37 The Young Rascals/The Rascals People Got To Be Free 3 #1 hits, 6 Top 10 hits, 13 Top 40 hits
38 The Monkees I'm a Believer 3 #1 hits, 6 Top 10 hits, 11 Top 40 hits
39 The Four Tops Baby, I Need Your Loving 2 #1 hits, 5 Top 10 hits, 17 Top 40 hits
40 Dion Abraham, Martin and John 1 #1 hit, 9 Top 10 hits, 14 Top 40 hits

[I. Spaceman]

Oh my!
At least Blondie is in the Top 10.



1 Endless Love Diana Ross & Lionel Richie 1(10) 20 1981
2 Bette Davis Eyes Kim Carnes  1(9) 21 1981
3 Physical Olivia Newton-John  1(5) 23 1981
4 Every Breath You Take The Police 1( 20 1983
5 Flashdance...What A Feeling Irene Cara  1(5) 21 1983
6 Call Me Blondie 1(7) 19 1980
7 Waiting For A Girl Like You Foreigner  1(3) 19 1981
8 Centerfold The J. Geils Band 1(3) 21 1982
9 Eye Of The Tiger Survivor  1(5) 18 1982
10 Billie Jean Michael Jackson 1(7) 19 1983
11 (Just Like) Starting Over John Lennon  1(4) 19 1981
12 Lady Kenny Rogers  1(5) 18 1980
13 Down Under Men At Work  1(4) 19 1983
14 Jessie's Girl Rick Springfield  1(1) 21 1981
15 Hard To Say I'm Sorry Chicago  1(3) 18 1982
16 Do That To Me One More Time Captain & Tennille  1(1) 22 1980
17 I Love Rock `N Roll Joan Jett & The Blackhearts  1(5) 17 1982
18 Woman In Love Barbra Streisand  1(4) 19 1980
19 Say Say Say Paul McCartney & Michael Jackson 1(3) 18 1983
20 Abracadabra The Steve Miller Band  1(1) 19 1982
21 Don't You Want Me Human League  1(3) 20 1982
22 Upside Down Diana Ross  1(3) 18 1980
23 When Doves Cry Prince 1(5) 16 1984
24 Another One Bites The Dust Queen  1(2) 20 1980
25 Ebony & Ivory Paul McCartney & Stevie Wonder  1(7) 16 1982
26 Total Eclipse Of The Heart Bonnie Tyler  1(4) 18 1983
27 All Night Long (All Night) Lionel Richie  1(3) 17 1983
28 Beat It Michael Jackson  1(3) 19 1983
29 I Can't Go For That (No Can Do) Daryl Hall & John Oates  1(3) 17 1982
30 Like A Virgin Madonna 1(6) 14 1985
31 What's Love Got To Do With It Tina Turner  1(3) 18 1984
32 Maneater Daryl Hall & John Oates  1(4) 16 1982
33 Queen Of Hearts Juice Newton  2 19 1981
34 Magic Olivia Newton-John  1(3) 17 1980
35 Another Brick In The Wall (Part 2) Pink Floyd  1(3) 16 1980
36 Gloria Laura Branigan 1(1) 19 1982
37 Crazy Little Thing Called Love Queen  1(4) 16 1980
38 Islands In The Stream Kenny Rogers & Dolly Parton  1(2) 17 1983
39 Rosanna Toto  1(1) 17 1982
40 That's What Friends Are For Dionne & Friends 1(4) 15 1986
41 Karma Chameleon Culture Club 1(4) 16 1984
42 I Love A Rainy Night Eddie Rabbitt  1(1) 19 1981
43 Hello Lionel Richie  1(3) 16 1984
44 Arthur's Theme (The Best That You Can Do) Christopher Cross  1(2) 17 1981
45 Who Can It Be Now Men At Work  1(2) 17 1982
46 Careless Whisper Wham!  1(2) 16 1985
47 Sweet Dreams (Are Made Of This) Eurythmics  1(1) 19 1983
48 The Tide Is High Blondie  1(2) 17 1981
49 Celebration Kool & The Gang  1(1) 18 1981
50 Don't Talk To Strangers Rick Springfield  2 16 1982

[I. Spaceman]

Didn't you get the memo, Jeff? I'm Too Sexy and Rock Me Amadeus were two of the greatest songs ever written! They have to be, they were at #1 for about 3000 weeks!

WHO LET THE DAWGS OUT!  Who-who-who-who WHO LET THE DAWGS OUT!

Ice Ice, Baby!

HELL yes. I'm doin' the Macarena to Disco Duck right now!

[I. Spaceman]

As of 1971 these were the biggest pop acts ever.  Oops -- maybe the Beach Boys weren't so great after all....
 

Dude, Pat Boone is TOTALLY 14 times better than he beach Boys! Ever hear his version of Tutti Frutti? INCENDIARY!

[Jeff Mason]

As of 1972, these were the top 40 songs of the entire rock era.  Please note: NO Beach Boys songs at ALL.

1 The Twist
 Chubby Checker 1960/62
2 Hey Jude The Beatles 1968
3 Mack the Knife Bobby Darin 1959
4 I Want To Hold Your Hand The Beatles 1964
5 I'm a Beliver The Monkees 1966
6 All Shook Up Elvis Presley 1957
7 Don't Be Cruel/Hound Dog Elvis Presley 1956
8 Love Letters In the Sand Pat Boone 1957
9 Jailhouse Rock Elvis Prelsey 1957
10 Sixteen Tons "Tennessee" Ernie Ford 1955
11 (Let Me Be Your) Teddy Bear Elvis Presley  1957
12 Singing the Blues Guy Mitchell 1956
13 (We're Gonna) Rock Around the Clock Bill Haley and His Comets 1955
14 Theme From "A Summer Place" Percy Faith and His Orchestra 1960
15 Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head B.J. Thomas 1970
16 Sugar Sugar The Archies 1969
17 I Heard It Through the Grapevine Marvin Gaye 1968
18 Joy To the World Three Dog Night 1971
19 Love Me Tender Elvis Presley 1956
20 I'll Be There Jackson 5 1970
21 Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In (The Flesh Failures) (Medley) The 5th Dimension 1969
22 Cherry Pink and Apple Blossom White Prez Prado and His Orchestra 1955
23 Autumn Leaves Roger Williams 1955
24 It's All In the Game Tommy Edwards 1958
25 American Pie (Parts 1 and 2) Don McLean 1972
26 I Think I Love You The Partridge Family 1970
27 It's Now Or Never Elvis Presley 1960
28 Are You Lonesome To-night? Elvis Presley 1960
29 Knock Three Times Dawn 1971
30 Maggie May/Reason To Believe Rod Stewart 1971
31 Love Is Blue Paul Mauriat 1968
32 Bridge Over Troubled Water Simon and Garfunkel 1970
33 It's Too Late/I Feel the Earth Move Carole King 1971
34 Memories Are Made Of This Dean Martin 1956
35 Tammy Debbie Reynolds 1957
36 At the Hop Danny and the Juniors 1958
37 The Battle Of New Orleans Johnny Horton 1959
38 To Sir With Love Lulu 1967
39 I Can't Stop Loving You Ray Charles 1962
40 Big Girls Don't Cry The Four Seasons 1962

[I. Spaceman]

Top 10 LP's of all time. And I thought Shania Twain being better than the Beatles was just my opinion!

1 Their Greatest Hits 1971-1975
The Eagles
29 million 
2 Thriller
Michael Jackson
27 million 
3 Led Zeppelin IV
Led Zeppelin
24 million 
4 The Wall
Pink Floyd
23 million 
5 Greatest Hits, Volumes 1 and 2 (1973-1985)
Billy Joel
21 million 
6 Back In Black
AC/DC
21 million 
7 Come On Over
Shania Twain
20 million 
8 Garth Double Live
Garth Brooks
20 million 
9 Rumours
Fleetwood Mac
19 million 
10 The Beatles (The White Album)
The Beatles
19 million

[Jeff Mason]

Cam, I am not trying to be difficult here -- but I have a specific point.  Do these lists REALLY reflect to you the best music ever?  Because you are looking at the biggest hits of all time.  And in context, the Beach Boys are way down on the list.  Yet I suspect that you still like them best of all of these groups.  Why?  JUST BECAUSE!  There's no accounting for taste, and no true objective measures of quality -- at ALL!  The best you can do is look at what people still enjoy listening to 30 years on.  I bet half of those songs from the 70's are only played by hardcore fans of those acts today.  But there are millions of people who love the Flying Burrito Brothers (myself included), whose best album sold 50,000 copies.  And my favorite album of the Beach Boys, which I would seriously argue as their very best, is Sunflower, one of the worst selling of all.

[Jeff Mason]

Ian -- seriously, I thought that the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack would make that list.  And is the White Album REALLY the biggest selling Beatles album?  Or does it count double as a 2LP set?

[I. Spaceman]

Here's the rest of the Top 25, and yes, White is indeed the biggest-selling Beatles.

11 Boston
Boston
17 million 
12 The Bodyguard (Soundtrack)
Whitney Houston
17 million 
13 Cracked Rear View
Hootie & The Blowfish
16 million 
14 Greatest Hits
Elton John
16 million 
15 Hotel California
The Eagles
16 million 
16 The Beatles 1967-1970
The Beatles
16 million 
17 No Fences
Garth Brooks
16 million 
18 Jagged Little Pill
Alanis Morissette
16 million 
19 Physical Graffiti
Led Zeppelin
16 million 
20 Born In The U.S.A.
Bruce Springsteen
15 million 
21 Dark Side Of The Moon
Pink Floyd
15 million 
22 Saturday Night Fever (Soundtrack)
Bee Gees
15 million 
23 The Beatles 1962-1966
The Beatles
15 million 
24 Appetite For Destruction
Guns N' Roses
15 million 
25 Supernatural
Santana
15 million

[Jeff Mason]

For those wondering what my sources are, I got my posts from this website:

http://leemichaelwithers.tripod.com/at40special.htm

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I think that sales and "critical appreciation" are just two sides of the same coin.  One measures how many teenagers with decent allowances think a record is good, the other measures how many english majors that wear Chucks think a record is good.  Sure, that's an oversimplification, but in any case, the only source from which we can derive statistical information from is sales.  The only category of goodness that can be objectively judged is how good a record's sales are.  Critical groundswells can certainly be felt but not measured.  To somebody, somewhere, You Light Up My Life is the greatest song of all time.  Neither sales or mass public opinion will persuade this person.  It's always going to come down to an immeasureable individual taste.  So either there is no good or bad, or there is good based on sales.  I'm fine with either choice, but I do think it's a little strange that people still try to exert their tastes onto other people.

[I. Spaceman]

It's not about that, Aeij.
It's about this: the majority of folks who buy records in the quantities of millions hear and appreciate music in a way that is more of the moment and less analytical. NOTHING wrong with that, just a different form of appreciation.
Musical historians and critics hear things in a way that is based more on context, with knowledge of the history of the form. Again, no better or worse, but different. These historians and critics sometimes write books and histories of music based on what has proved most influential and powerful over time. Records that didn't sell initially building up sales over time, etc.
Now, Aeij, if you were new to this thing, and needed something to guide you towards the best music of the modern era, would you buy a book of chart statistics or would you buy a historical summary by a committee of knowledgeable rock fans and critics?
 

[Cam Mott]

I think that sales and "critical appreciation" are just two sides of the same coin.  One measures how many teenagers with decent allowances think a record is good, the other measures how many english majors that wear Chucks think a record is good.  Sure, that's an oversimplification, but in any case, the only source from which we can derive statistical information from is sales.  The only category of goodness that can be objectively judged is how good a record's sales are.  Critical groundswells can certainly be felt but not measured.  To somebody, somewhere, You Light Up My Life is the greatest song of all time.  Neither sales or mass public opinion will persuade this person.  It's always going to come down to an immeasureable individual taste.  So either there is no good or bad, or there is good based on sales.  I'm fine with either choice, but I do think it's a little strange that people still try to exert their tastes onto other people.

Exactly. Thanks for un-mumboing my jumbo.  Or maybe you didn't even read my un-understandable posts. [stretching collar while jutting chin]

[Cam Mott]

would you buy a historical summary by a committee of knowledgeable rock fans and critics?
 

Personally I quit paying attention to such just out of college mumbo-jumbo years ago.

[I. Spaceman]

would you buy a historical summary by a committee of knowledgeable rock fans and critics?
 

Personally I quit paying attention to such just out of college mumbo-jumbo years ago.

Just out of college? Who the foda you talkin' about, bud? Greil Marcus, Lester Bangs, Peter Guralnick, Nick Tosches?
You should thank the critics and historians. They're the only reason you are on a message board getting people to read you. The critics, historians and musicians talking about PS and SMiLE are the only reason the BBs are considered more than an oldies act today.
And, I'm a rock writer, so please shut yer mouth. I ain't out of college.

[Jeff Mason]

Or put it another way -- when trying to make a convert to Brian Wilson's music, are you going to just play someone the hits from 1963 or 1964?  Or are you going to offer up Pet Sounds and Smile?  Or in my case, will you make a comp of 1967-73 music to REALLY wow them?  I won't limit myself or my attempts to make new fans by only doing the hit records.  

And again, THERE IS NO OBJECTIVE MEASURE TO THE QUALITY OF A RECORD!  Sales is not a measure of quality in any stretch, it is purely a measure of popularity.  On American Idol there are often talentless singers making it to the top 5 or even top 3 simply because they are cute or perky or have good personality.  People vote for them for non-musical reasons.  Just because they made the top 5 didn't mean that they were the best singers, it meant that they were most popular.

I do not accept sales as an objective measure.  You either feel the music or you don't.  Ian would probably love for me to love the Velvet Underground.  Can't do it.  Doesn't move me in the slightest.  Listening to it for me is like musical broccoli -- you know some people think it's "good" for you but I still don't enjoy it.  How many casual fans who buy a record still feel it deeply and keep spinning the record 10 years later?  Or how many sell it at a garage sale?  Ever try to find a copy of 15 Big Ones at a used store?  It went Top 10 but it seems to have had the staying power of milk on a hot summer day.

[Jeff Mason]

If we could measure the quality of music objectively, this message board would be unnecessary.  But we can't which means we have to discuss it over and over.

And I LOVE reading rock books -- even if I think the writer is an idiot (*cough* Dave Marsh *cough*).  Doesn't mean I am pretentious, it just gives me a stab of pleasure (to quote Norman Maine).

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

 

Now, Aeij, if you were new to this thing, and needed something to guide you towards the best music of the modern era, would you buy a book of chart statistics or would you buy a historical summary by a committee of knowledgeable rock fans and critics?

I'd do an amalgamation of things.  I would look at the charts, I would look at hip magazines that cover new music, I'd  scour the internet, but that would be about 5% of it, the other 95% would involve me listening to the actual music and deciding for my own tastes.

But that's beside the point I think.  If we're talking about how to find new music (to you) that you'll like, than the charts are probably not the way to go.  I didn't think that's what we were talking about though.  

Bringing it back to Mike Love, I think he's absolutely justified in using the commercial potential of a record to judge it.  There's a continuum of commerciality and art and anybody can fall anywhere.  I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with valuing one demographics immediatly gratifying acceptance of a record over another demographic's less immediate, perhaps more considered and less gratifying acceptance of a record.

I think it's easier to see Mike's position when you're in that position.  When I'm at a bar watching a band play, I can do a couple of things in response to what I hear that will directly impact the band.  I can directly compliment them.  "Hey, thanks for playing, I liked the music a lot."

I'm sure that means something to them.  I can also buy one of their self-produced records for $10.  That probably means something to them too.

To somebody like Mike Love, that 10 spot will always mean something, even if it's a drop in the bucket.  It's still a need for affirmation.  

[I. Spaceman]

If we could measure the quality of music objectively, this message board would be unnecessary. But we can't which means we have to discuss it over and over.

And I LOVE reading rock books -- even if I think the writer is an idiot (*cough* Dave Marsh *cough*). Doesn't mean I am pretentious, it just gives me a stab of pleasure (to quote Norman Maine).

JOLT of pleasure!  
Dave Marsh, ugh.

[I. Spaceman]

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with valuing one demographics immediatly gratifying acceptance of a record over another demographic's less immediate, perhaps more considered and less gratifying acceptance of a record.

Yeah, but it ain't any less objective, therefore him pronouncing one as better than the other just because it sold more makes him look just as much of a fool as some uber-nerd thinking that PS is the only good BB album, just because Rolling Stone said so.
Time and history are not the only judge, but merely the most accurate. The Beach Boys' appeal today as more than an oldies act proves that.

[Jeff Mason]

Aeij, Brian thought that way too.  He was addicted to sales and reveled in the performance of GV, and his fears of commercial failure probably aided in Smile's demise.  But he never judges music strictly in its commercial potential.  That's too narrow.

It's why Spector was doomed to miss the album era, I think -- he was so focused on sales potential in the music he made (is it dumb enough?) that he missed the signs of musical change.  He didn't see the rules get overturned overnight.

[Jeff Mason]

And I LOVE reading rock books -- even if I think the writer is an idiot (*cough* Dave Marsh *cough*). Doesn't mean I am pretentious, it just gives me a stab of pleasure (to quote Norman Maine).

JOLT of pleasure!  
Dave Marsh, ugh.

OK OK I haven't seen the movie in a while.

At least we agree on Marsh.  His Elvis book is OK, but his view of the Beach Boys absolutely mystifies me.

[Mark H.]

Everyone needs to purchase this....and Mike Love needs a copy as well.  That way we can talk about such things with a common vocabulary.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0767918738/sr=8-1/qid=1149218717/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-2719801-4492827?%5Fencoding=UTF8