Is this for real?!

[Glenn Greenberg]

In theory 'Darling' wasn't a foda-you move, and I'd rather listen to most of Smiley Smile than this rehash of a Sharon Marie obscure single.

Wow.  "Darling" is one of my favorite Beach Boys songs.

[Jeff Mason]

I still am amazed that a record that sold enough by 1967 to go gold and went Top 10 and had two Top 10 singles is still called "flop" in today's scholarship, especially for a band whose arguably best album went to #151 and did absolutely nothing sales-wise.  Maybe perception at the time said it was disappointing, but that was mere perception.  The truth is that Pet Sounds was a decent hit whose commercial potential was undercut by a desperate label whose "prestige" acts were either leaving the label or nosediving, and whose most popular act had just cost them tens of thousands of dollars in losses because of a SNAFU with an album cover.

[Olivio]

  He actually said "commercial" 15 times.

[Glenn Greenberg]

a desperate label whose "prestige" acts were either leaving the label or nosediving, and whose most popular act had just cost them tens of thousands of dollars in losses because of a SNAFU with an album cover.

Which acts were leaving the label?

Which acts were nosediving?

The most popular act has to be the Beatles, but which album cover are you referring to?  And what was the SNAFU?

[HeyJude]

There's another interview from that time, maybe it's the same, where Bruce says really awful things about "Smile" and not the nicest things about Brian, if I remember correctly

I'd like to read that. I never thought Bruce to have a sour bone in his body.

I don't know about that interview, but I remember that a few years ago when Bruce started appearing on the Beach Boys Britain message board, he made some comments, particularly about Brian, that I found to be pretty insulting. He called Brian's band something along the lines of a "tribute band", and I think this was also around the same time that he referred to attempts to release archival BB material as "bottomfeeding."

Interestingly, it seemed to me that when the fans weren't responding very postively to some of Bruce's comments, particularly when it came to Brian's band, it wasn't long before Bruce was all of a sudden posting about how great Brian's touring was and how he recommended every fan to go see Brian's show, etc.

Certainly Bruce is not always postive and glowing. Just read his commonly cited quote about the "Surf's Up" album! "A big, hyped up lie!"

[Daniel S.]

Mike's philosophy seems to be that you don't make music for yourself and if there isn't an audience for it, then what's the point?

[Beckner]

test test. Steve is freaking out.

[Aegir]

I don't get it.. he has all these personal stories for lots of the songs he's written.. and one of his songs is unecessarily five and a half minutes long, yet he complains BW'88 isn't commercial enough?!

And he sort of implies he's a surfer.. interesting..

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

test test. Steve is freaking out.

I'm back.

I had a huge post typed out for this thread too but have since lost it.

[Daniel S.]

I don't understand how Mike can be saying, in 1992, that the Beach Boys shouldn't have tried to go psychedelic considering that's what became "popular" music in the late 60's and the Beach Boys failure to catch on is what destroyed their careers?

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

Psychedelia wasn't the ONLY music that was charting in the 60's. I think Mike (Even though I'm sure he tried every drug the others did) is strongly against the drug scene. He probably associates everything B.W 1965-onwards as DRUGS, DRUGS, DRUGS. Rather than, ART, ART, ART.  Maybe he thought that the Beach Boys could've saved music history by continuing to write the formulaic stuff.

[the captain]

I think, rather, he associates everything Beach Boys pre-1965 as SUCCESS, SUCCESS, SUCCESS. Simple as that.

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

He should just have been glad all along that he was no longer pumping gas all day long.

[Aegir]

I think I remember reading that Mike used pot for a year or so around 1967 (I think I calculated that the Good Vibrations lyrics were written during this, but I can't back that up now) then stopped after he went to the Maharishi's transcendental meditation camp, as meditation gave him the release that pot, and alcohol before that (he claimed in a recent the entirety of the Beach Boys touring band doesn't get drunk). Maybe after Maharishi his opinion on drugs changed.

Another way to look at it: he's seen what substance abuse has done to those around him, Brian especially. I don't think that would give anyone a good opinion on drugs to be personally subjected to the effects of Brian Wilson's use.

[NimrodsSon]

Mike was definitely still smoking pot at least into the early seventies, and in the Beach Boys show at the Filmore where they appear with the Grateful Dead in (I think) 1974, Mike's laughing up there on the stage, having a good time talking about how they were all stoned on the tour bus or something like that (it's been a while since I listened to it).

[Ron]

Things we've learned:

1. Mike Love has an Opinion
2. Mike Love's opinion is he doesn't like drugs
3. Mike Love is sometimes hypocritical

Welcome to the human race, Mr. Mike Love!

I realize my opinion isn't always very popular on the board, but again, I have to put my two cents in because I just can't keep my mouth shut.

Mike likes Kokomo.  It was huge.  Deal with it.  I like the song, it's alright, not their best but nowhere near their worst.  Is it REALLY that much worse than "Get You Back"?  I love Get You Back... but you never see it get trashed like Kokomo does.  Similar cheeziness, etc. just one had Brian Wilson in it so it's now off limits.

This interview was in 92, isn't that about the time Mike was suing Brian for the years and years of royalties Brian by all accounts (including his own) screwed Mike out of?  I'd be pissed too.

He doesn't like drugs.  Face it, half the world doesn't like drugs.  I don't like drugs.  I think people that take drugs are idiots, and I'm not alone.  Mike Love, for instance, agrees with me.

The Beach Boys were founded to make money and to get famous and get chicks.  Again; deal with it.  They were intended to be commercial, they were commercial, and they always will be commercial.  Brian Wilson was such a talented musician that he was capable of being commercial, AND making artistic box-expanding music, that's a testament to his gift.  From "Surfin' Safari" to "What I Really Want For Christmas" Brian has been trying to make money.  There's nothing wrong with that.  Artists do not have to suffer.  Artists should make as much money as they can physically carry to the bank if at all possible. 

in summation:

1. Capitalism is not evil.
2.  Mike Love is not evil.
3. Kokomo is not evil.
4. Brian Wilson is not god.
5. Drugs are evil.

That about sums it up, class dismissed!

[the captain]

Mike likes Kokomo...Is it REALLY that much worse than "Get You Back"?  I love Get You Back... but you never see it get trashed like Kokomo does.  Similar cheeziness, etc. just one had Brian Wilson in it so it's now off limits.

First off, yes, I do hate Getcha Back and a lot of the other crap on the 80s discs, Brian-related or not.

But second, while I think Mike is a piece of sh*t, I also think Brian is just as guilty of revisionist history, capitalist motivations and other self-serving actions. Who isn't? Mike is just more fun to make fun of, probably because he doesn't have a gift so obvious as Brian's. I mean, a couple of catchy lines, or writing indisputably brilliant melodies and harmonies? I know whose side I'll end up taking every time.

[Ron]

"Big Sur" is undisputedly a brilliant melody with brilliant harmonies, right?

[Jeff Mason]

a desperate label whose "prestige" acts were either leaving the label or nosediving, and whose most popular act had just cost them tens of thousands of dollars in losses because of a SNAFU with an album cover.

Which acts were leaving the label?

Which acts were nosediving?

The most popular act has to be the Beatles, but which album cover are you referring to?  And what was the SNAFU?

This Goldmine article has all of your questions answered:

http://www.surfermoon.com/essays/psyt.html

[I. Spaceman]

Mike likes Kokomo...Is it REALLY that much worse than "Get You Back"?  I love Get You Back... but you never see it get trashed like Kokomo does.  Similar cheeziness, etc. just one had Brian Wilson in it so it's now off limits.

First off, yes, I do hate Getcha Back and a lot of the other crap on the 80s discs, Brian-related or not.

But second, while I think Mike is a piece of merda, I also think Brian is just as guilty of revisionist history, capitalist motivations and other self-serving actions. Who isn't? Mike is just more fun to make fun of, probably because he doesn't have a gift so obvious as Brian's. I mean, a couple of catchy lines, or writing indisputably brilliant melodies and harmonies? I know whose side I'll end up taking every time.

You're reducing one of the greatest lead vocalists and lyric writers of rock history to "a couple catchy lines"??
Whatever, dude. Love is no more of an asshole than anyone else in the BB world. He's just honest about saying his thoughts in public. For that I respect him more than Brian Wilson, who was and is an asshole too. As are you, sometimes, as is me, sometimes.

[Aegir]

Mike was definitely still smoking pot at least into the early seventies, and in the Beach Boys show at the Filmore where they appear with the Grateful Dead in (I think) 1974, Mike's laughing up there on the stage, having a good time talking about how they were all stoned on the tour bus or something like that (it's been a while since I listened to it).

The quote is something to the effect of, "We did this on a bus with the Buffalo Springfield one time, all stoned and drunk, it was great!" Buffalo Springfield broke up in 1968, I think.

[Jeff Mason]

And the concert was April 1971.

[Chris Brown]

I think calling him "one of the great lyric writers in rock history" is stretching just a bit.  Yes, he wrote beautiful lyrics to Warmth of the Sun, and he certainly knew what type of lyrics would sell, but c'mon, Brian worked with far better lyricists than Mike.  Not saying Mike was a bad lyric writer but certainly no better than a Dylan, a Lennon/McCartney, an Asher, a Parks, etc. 

[I. Spaceman]

I think calling him "one of the great lyric writers in rock history" is stretching just a bit.  Yes, he wrote beautiful lyrics to Warmth of the Sun, and he certainly knew what type of lyrics would sell, but c'mon, Brian worked with far better lyricists than Mike.  Not saying Mike was a bad lyric writer but certainly no better than a Dylan, a Lennon/McCartney, an Asher, a Parks, etc. 

I'll take the lyrics of Good Vibes over anything Lennon/McCartney, Asher or VDP wrote put together. GV's psychedelia-of-sensuality and surreal reality is far more mindbending to me than Parks' masturbatory and eratic wordplay.
Dylan is my favorite lyricist. But I'll bet he wishes he wrote I Get Around.

[Daniel S.]

The lyrics to Good Vibrations are pretty damn good. I wouldn't mind a psychedelic album full of songs with lyrics of that caliber. I wonder what Smile would of been like if Mike Love had a hand in writing the lyrics to the songs. The only Van Dyke Parks lyrics I ever really fell in love with are from 'Surf's Up'.