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Author Topic: John Lennon & Paul McCartney Talk Maharishi, Beach Boys on TV, May 68 (audio)  (Read 22299 times)
guitarfool2002
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« on: November 24, 2014, 09:08:33 PM »

YouTube video:  http://youtu.be/lKLX2DsltaE

Most fans know or have heard about John and Paul appearing on The Tonight Show in May 1968, on a Tuesday night when Johnny Carson was not there and was replaced by guest host Joe Garagiola. This broadcast at the time got very high ratings for an off-night, late-night broadcast, and unfortunately no complete video or film/kinescope exists or has been discovered as of 2014.

This took place within a month of John and George leaving India and their studies with the Maharishi. What struck me was how John and Paul discussed the Beach Boys tour with the Maharishi which in the previous week (May 68) had collapsed, and added that they had advised against Maharishi doing the tour. I had listened to various cuts of this interview before, but was surprised when listening again this past year how they brought up the Beach Boys, and how it seemed to be a topic of conversation (and laughter) that the tour had fallen apart. In this clip they also discuss their changing look and music, and how it lost some fans while gaining others, and this reminded me too of the Beach Boys dealing with the same issues in 1966 and 1967, specifically the concerns over the Pet Sounds and Good Vibrations releases "alienating" some of their fans, and their old sounds versus the new.

There are other issues mentioned here and there, but I wanted to clip just those four minutes or so of them talking about the BB's and the Maharishi. There have been other audio recordings of this appearance made available, but this one specifically, you may notice, is in much better quality and the interview itself is much more clear and audible. This was taken from a somewhat recent discovery from a source who knew enough about audio tech to run audio outputs direct from a television set and into a reel-to-reel recorder, which is as close to a direct feed of the broadcast as would be available in someone's home. And also, if interested, there have been edits made of this and other home recordings of the show which help fill in some of the previously missing portions of those earlier home recordings, to present a more complete document.

Posted for those like me who either forgot or were not aware that the Beach Boys were a topic of conversation when John and Paul appeared on The Tonight Show in 1968.  Smiley

« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 09:16:59 PM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2014, 09:29:19 PM »

This is fascinating, and thanks guitarfool for posting. What struck me when thinking again about what a strange, ill-advised idea it was to bring The Maharishi along on the tour was how, whatever good intentions (such as changing peoples' worldview, etc) may at some level have been behind being The Maharishi on the tour, it just sort of seemed to transparently reek of the band saying "hey, look at this famous, cool person we know who we are going to parade around with on tour".

At the time in 1968, at their lowest popular ebb, it probably seemed like a bit of an obvious attempt by the BBs to ride his coattails a bit (not entirely different from Stamos 20 years later), and maybe John and Paul could sense that too, when laughing about the BBs' debacle.

I wonder how the whole tour came about. Was it entirely Mike's idea? Was it down to a group BB vote? Did any BBs object?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 09:34:43 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2014, 10:46:16 PM »

http://www.goldminemag.com/article/sudden-ending-on-the-road-with-the-beach-boys-in-1968

is an article by David Beard from 2010 about the Maharishi tour. It has a list of dates for the tour - including cancelled ones - but there are some questions about the list. Beard says that on May 19, the BBs/Maharishi appearance in Vegas was to be at the University of Nevada in Las Vegas (UNLV).

But in its May 18 '68 issue (which would have come out around May 11), Billboard magazine said the band and the Maharishi would be performing that day at the Flamingo Hotel's convention center.

What I've wondered about, for quite a while, was whether the band's appearance on the Merv Griffin show on May 17 would have featured the Maharishi had the tour been completed.  Come to think of it - that performance still hasn't surfaced, has it? But it should still exist.  Merv owned and kept all the videotapes of his show, though only part of them have shown up on DVD or Youtube so far.

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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2014, 10:50:07 PM »

Interesting thing about the tour with the Maharishi - the opening date was at the Washington Coliseum, site of the first US Beatles concert (and also where Dylan was playing when the photo of him on the cover of his first Greatest Hits album was taken).
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2014, 11:14:38 PM »

Before getting more into the Maharishi details, I read that link to David Beard's 2010 Goldmine piece, and something jumped out:

Mike Love: “I flew back and (I think) the day before the tour opened we were sitting in Nashville and Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated in Memphis. Almost immediately more than half the shows were cancelled, because a lot of those cities were burning and the National Guard came out. We lost a lot of money. I was thinking to myself, ‘Had I stayed in India we would have rearranged the tour and not been right in the middle of that thing.’"

Andrew, recently you said this in the Pickle Brothers thread, about that April '68 tour:
Grillo was misremembering about the first tour of 1968. It wasn't a bust, the band played all but a handful of the scheduled dates (check it out on 10452). It was the Maharishi tour that was a complete disaster.

Wouldn't Mike's comments via the David Beard article suggest the April '68 tour was a financial bust as well, despite the shows being rescheduled? It sounds like despite those shows which did get rescheduled and played later in April, the band still lost money, and Mike's words seem to agree with Grillo's, especially since this tour was self-financed. And of course they totally took a bath on the Maharishi tour in May.
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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2014, 04:14:13 AM »

There are some conflicting dates and venues that were listed in various magazines and Keith Badman's book had some errors about those venues.   I tried to correct the info about the canceled shows but a few errors still crept in.  As you probably know I compiled all the gigs info at the Bellagio site and Beard copies his dates from us.  So….it isn't his fault but yours truly.  In my book with Jon you will see that an error crept in there too.  One of the canceled shows is listed on May 11 as Richfield Coliseum but should be Cleveland Arena.  But Billboard article about a May 11 Las Vegas show is wrong-it was changed
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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2014, 04:23:17 AM »

I mean that the Vegas show and all the other shows after May 6 did not happen
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« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2014, 09:27:12 AM »

I'm no researcher, obviously, but I do remember Nick Grillo describing the tour during the MLK assassination and the Maharishi Tour like they were two separately planned back-to-back entities.  This was in September or October of 1969 when it should have been fairly clear in his memory.  He took a group of us to dinner from the Ivar offices and told the story in a way that was truly hilarious.  A bad break for the BBs financially, but a funny story as he told it.
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« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2014, 09:32:34 AM »

Nick Grillo seems like a fascinating character, anything memorable about the machinations of the Maharashi or our favorite fellas that he said that might have stuck in your mind that isn't legally actionable? Bwhahah!
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« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2014, 09:53:09 AM »

Best not to comment...
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 10:13:55 AM by Debbie Keil-Leavitt » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2014, 10:03:21 AM »

It won't be that funny recounting it here obviously, but the part that I remember that had us laughing so hard was Grillo recounting a time with the Maharishi out onstage squeaking out peace and love in that tiny giggly voice as Grillo and company were at the side of the stage with the Maharishi's rep (an attorney, I think or some other business guy) screaming that if they pulled whatever it was that would have been a breach of contract on the Maharishi's part, that they were going to "fu**ing sue their a**es off" (or a reasonably similar quote). You probably had to be there...I haven't read Grillo's interviews, so he might have already told this.

Sadie was going to sue the BBs, or the other way around? 
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2014, 10:19:13 AM »

It won't be that funny recounting it here obviously, but the part that I remember that had us laughing so hard was Grillo recounting a time with the Maharishi out onstage squeaking out peace and love in that tiny giggly voice as Grillo and company were at the side of the stage with the Maharishi's rep (an attorney, I think or some other business guy) screaming that if they pulled whatever it was that would have been a breach of contract on the Maharishi's part, that they were going to "fu**ing sue their a**es off" (or a reasonably similar quote). You probably had to be there...I haven't read Grillo's interviews, so he might have already told this.

Sadie was going to sue the BBs, or the other way around?  

It wasn't the BBs threatening to breach the contract.  Let me sum it up that way.  You'd have to ask Nick Grillo what - if anything - happened after that...
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 10:45:26 AM by Debbie Keil-Leavitt » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2014, 01:01:07 PM »

The April 1968 tour (the one that was impacted by the King assassination) and the Maharishi tour were two separate entities.
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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2014, 07:14:54 PM »

Most likely the saddest show I ever attended. Total  Shrug Shrug atmosphere throughout most of the show with scores of people just walking around with a WTF expression. I remember Carl doing a bangup job with Friends. Attendance was pathetic.
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« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2014, 10:50:03 PM »

The April 1968 tour (the one that was impacted by the King assassination) and the Maharishi tour were two separate entities.

Isn't this tv interview in early 68? Or before the white album came out? Because they are talking about the next album improving upon Sgt Pepper? When was the Maharishi tour? Sounds like it was before this interview.
Also, I get the impression that they advised the Beach Boys not to tour with the Maharishi and not the other way around.
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2014, 05:53:16 AM »

The Lennon McCartney interview was May 14, 1968. The April 1968 Beach Boys tour of the southern US ended with a rescheduled make-up concert played April 24. The Maharishi tour started May 3, was scheduled for the majority of May '68 with promotional TV appearances scheduled in the US as well, but all scheduled shows after that first week were cancelled. When I edited the video (hastily), I added print ads from shows the Maharishi actually did like the Singer Bowl/Iona dates, along with one in Boston that first week that was cancelled and one scheduled for the Hollywood Bowl May 19th that was also cancelled, to show the timeline of everything relative to John and Paul (and Joe Garagiola) discussing it May 14th on NBC.

The tour of the south April '68 and the Maharishi tour scheduled for May '68 were two separate tours, but there was only a week or so gap between them. There is a quote from Dennis in the Priess book where even he talked as if they overlapped, but they were obviously planned as different tours since one had the Maharishi and the other did not. According to Mike, the April tour cost them a lot of money due to the cancellations and rescheduling in wake of MLK, and the Maharishi tour was an unmitigated flop. The Beach Boys/Brother organization fronted the money for the April '68 tour. Mike left India in order to return to the US to do the April tour, and within the next weeks the Maharishi also "lost" John, George, and their entourage for less friendly ways as described in numerous Beatles books.


The "next album" John is talking about would become The White Album, but in the second week of May '68 there was nothing planned out beyond having notebooks and papers filled with new tunes they had worked up in India. At this point I don't believe this new batch of material had even been demo'ed at Esher or elsewhere, but I could be wrong. As soon as John and George got back, the plans for Apple were in full gear, and promoting Apple was the reason for the trip to New York that found them on The Tonight Show that Tuesday evening, May 14th after doing a round of press events and interviews.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 05:58:23 AM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2014, 07:22:58 AM »

YouTube video:  http://youtu.be/lKLX2DsltaE

This took place within a month of John and George leaving India and their studies with the Maharishi. What struck me was how John and Paul discussed the Beach Boys tour with the Maharishi which in the previous week (May 68) had collapsed, and added that they had advised against Maharishi doing the tour. I had listened to various cuts of this interview before, but was surprised when listening again this past year how they brought up the Beach Boys, and how it seemed to be a topic of conversation (and laughter) that the tour had fallen apart.

It sounds more like John and Paul are saying they didn't think the Beach Boys should have invited the Maharishi, not the other way around. They had become disillusioned with the Maharishi, if not meditation (as they describe here) after going to India. I don't think they were mocking the Beach Boys, other than saying they made a bad decision to bring the Maharishi.
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« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2014, 07:49:18 AM »

YouTube video:  http://youtu.be/lKLX2DsltaE

This took place within a month of John and George leaving India and their studies with the Maharishi. What struck me was how John and Paul discussed the Beach Boys tour with the Maharishi which in the previous week (May 68) had collapsed, and added that they had advised against Maharishi doing the tour. I had listened to various cuts of this interview before, but was surprised when listening again this past year how they brought up the Beach Boys, and how it seemed to be a topic of conversation (and laughter) that the tour had fallen apart.

It sounds more like John and Paul are saying they didn't think the Beach Boys should have invited the Maharishi, not the other way around. They had become disillusioned with the Maharishi, if not meditation (as they describe here) after going to India. I don't think they were mocking the Beach Boys, other than saying they made a bad decision to bring the Maharishi.

The laughter actually comes unprompted from the audience, both times when they mention how the tour had "folded", so that was the audience finding it funny more than anyone on the panel going for a laugh line. If that is the reaction, and if Garagiola was the one who raised the topic, the collapse and failure of that tour after a week's run must have been in people's minds, and if the crowd reacted by laughing, I have to think it was the object of some public ridicule to have such a project collapse as this tour did after a few shows.

Here is what Paul said to Joe Garagiola:

PAUL: "We tried to persuade him against that, you know.
JG: "To go out?"
PAUL: "Yeah. I thought it was a terrible idea."

They tried to persuade *him*, the Maharishi, not to go out on that tour with the Beach Boys. As you said, John and Paul say several times in several different ways that they don't have an issue with meditation and actually encourage more to do it, but the way the Maharishi was going out on tour and being billed and treated like a rock star was one of the issues they had with him. That's perfectly clear in the 4 minute clip.

This is part of a bigger issue with more background than I've had time in the past day to cover, but there was more to it than Mike or the Beach Boys in general simply inviting the Maharishi on tour or the Maharishi asking the Beach Boys to tour with (and for...) him and his bigger goals.

One word: money. (more on that to come...)
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« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2014, 07:54:57 AM »

And take a look at the video again, those advertisements I included there bill the Maharishi as "The GURU" on both the Singer Bowl/Iona and the Boston ads, as if he was some kind of a rock star on the bill, and I put those in specifically because I think that was part of what John and Paul were hinting at in the interview: That what they thought they were getting in terms of spirituality and simplicity and reconnecting and all of that was the same type of corporate and rock and roll hype and rock star treatment which they themselves had gone to India to get away from.

What they found in India was a variation on the same theme they thought they were getting away from, and this tour was one element of that.
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« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2014, 06:59:59 PM »

Thanks for posting the video guitarfool. Just when I thought I'd heard/seen almost every Beatles interview ...
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« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2014, 08:07:55 PM »

YouTube video:  http://youtu.be/lKLX2DsltaE

This took place within a month of John and George leaving India and their studies with the Maharishi. What struck me was how John and Paul discussed the Beach Boys tour with the Maharishi which in the previous week (May 68) had collapsed, and added that they had advised against Maharishi doing the tour. I had listened to various cuts of this interview before, but was surprised when listening again this past year how they brought up the Beach Boys, and how it seemed to be a topic of conversation (and laughter) that the tour had fallen apart.

It sounds more like John and Paul are saying they didn't think the Beach Boys should have invited the Maharishi, not the other way around. They had become disillusioned with the Maharishi, if not meditation (as they describe here) after going to India. I don't think they were mocking the Beach Boys, other than saying they made a bad decision to bring the Maharishi.

The laughter actually comes unprompted from the audience, both times when they mention how the tour had "folded", so that was the audience finding it funny more than anyone on the panel going for a laugh line. If that is the reaction, and if Garagiola was the one who raised the topic, the collapse and failure of that tour after a week's run must have been in people's minds, and if the crowd reacted by laughing, I have to think it was the object of some public ridicule to have such a project collapse as this tour did after a few shows.

Here is what Paul said to Joe Garagiola:

PAUL: "We tried to persuade him against that, you know.
JG: "To go out?"
PAUL: "Yeah. I thought it was a terrible idea."

They tried to persuade *him*, the Maharishi, not to go out on that tour with the Beach Boys. As you said, John and Paul say several times in several different ways that they don't have an issue with meditation and actually encourage more to do it, but the way the Maharishi was going out on tour and being billed and treated like a rock star was one of the issues they had with him. That's perfectly clear in the 4 minute clip.

This is part of a bigger issue with more background than I've had time in the past day to cover, but there was more to it than Mike or the Beach Boys in general simply inviting the Maharishi on tour or the Maharishi asking the Beach Boys to tour with (and for...) him and his bigger goals.

One word: money. (more on that to come...)

This makes it seem that the BBs convinced Sadie to tour with them; isn't it more likely that Sadie used his spiritual prowess to bend their minds into thinking they wanted to invite him? He obviously wanted a cash infusion...
 I see your references to John and Paul and $$, but I don't see anything that doesn't lend to the BBs being the sole force behind the thoughts
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« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2014, 09:31:29 PM »

One thing to point out is that the planned April tour was limited to the southeastern United States; the tour in May had no scheduled Southern dates but would have covered the rest of the country.
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« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2014, 11:27:46 PM »

And take a look at the video again, those advertisements I included there bill the Maharishi as "The GURU" on both the Singer Bowl/Iona and the Boston ads, as if he was some kind of a rock star on the bill, and I put those in specifically because I think that was part of what John and Paul were hinting at in the interview: That what they thought they were getting in terms of spirituality and simplicity and reconnecting and all of that was the same type of corporate and rock and roll hype and rock star treatment which they themselves had gone to India to get away from.

What they found in India was a variation on the same theme they thought they were getting away from, and this tour was one element of that.

Thanks for posting this interview, GF.  One thing I find really interesting is the fact that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi gets top billing over the Beach Boys.  Wonder if that was a stipulation of his.  The BB's popularity in the US was in decline at that time, but having Maharishi as the top billed "entertainer" had to have put a damper on ticket sales.

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« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2014, 03:45:16 AM »

Interesting thing to me is that garagiola actually did a good job. Lennon later made it sound like this was the most embarrassing appearance he ever made on tv. But it really isn't that bad at all
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« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2014, 08:15:03 AM »

Interesting thing to me is that garagiola actually did a good job. Lennon later made it sound like this was the most embarrassing appearance he ever made on tv. But it really isn't that bad at all

That's a good point, I think it has gotten a worse rap than it deserved after you hear it. I think part of the blame too is any number of Beatles histories which have described it probably more on the things they had heard about it versus actually hearing it, and Garagiola was definitely not as bad as some have reported. Example, I've read accounts that suggested Garagiola was either dumbfounded, starstruck, or simply didn't know enough about the band to connect with them, but when you hear it he's not really any of those things, and talks some specifics with them. What I will say is that Tallulah Bankhead's role is something I don't quite understand as someone who is a fan of the Carson show: She was sitting at Johnny's desk next to Joe and acting almost like a co-host, which Johnny as far as I know rarely if ever did as part of the show's format from the 60's up to 1992 (except sidekick Ed McMahon), yet Tallulah actually steps over some of the questions and answers during this appearance. I don't know what they were thinking when they had her there, but again it's not all that bad but just a little distracting. Especially considering who the guests were.

One backstory that also didn't get into the Beatle histories too often: John and Paul truly did not know who Garagiola was, how would they since they didn't know American baseball nor did they have much access to American television via morning shows and the like? They were disappointed that Carson was absent, obviously they knew him and his reputation and his show was one of the most buzzworthy on US television at that time. So one of the show's younger producers was assigned to do a backstage pre-interview with them before the show, and apparently this producer hit it off with the two Beatles, and they connected without knowing who this guy was. Before going on, they supposedly asked if this young producer could interview them instead, or if he would be interviewing them, because again they had no clue who Joe Garagiola was!

And the other part that for some reason gets under-reported is that the episode got massive ratings, and even in mid-68 there were elements of "Beatlemania" chaos outside and inside NBC studios with fans trying to get to the two Beatles. It's important because some histories suggest this kind of Beatlemania was passe by 1968, but the screaming fans were still there for this appearance.
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