John Lennon & Paul McCartney Talk Maharishi, Beach Boys on TV, May 68 (audio)

[guitarfool2002]

Cam, I don't doubt you at all or doubt that what you were told by the Levys is anything but true, in fact I've been going on the assumption and the trust that it is true for my most recent posts. I accept that it happened, I accept that Brian was in classes/studies with Nadine/Henry and Beulah Smith in 1966.

Let's accept that it happened as you were told, in the words you posted here, and look at the larger points that your post could raise.

Just one aspect or element out of a larger group we could be looking at: Beulah Smith in terms of TM in the 1960's was possibly as close to the Maharishi himself as someone interested in studying TM could get in terms of early 1960's California...once again, she was personally trained and instructed by the Maharishi on the TM techniques and how to teach them to others, and for a time she was the only one specifically certified to teach it at least in California which is where it started to catch on.

If you have Brian and Marilyn Wilson attending classes that at some point near the end had the personal appearance of Beulah Smith, knowing she was the go-to person for teaching the Maharishi's TM courses for the first half of the 1960's, it just boggles my mind to think about that fact and then try to rectify the statements by the other Beach Boys through the years. When they suggest first impressions, introductions, and whatnot to TM coming specifically and implicitly on that 1967 Paris UNICEF concert event and subsequent meeting, it totally leaves out the fact that their brother/cousin/bandmate had studied the exact same techniques a year earlier, with all of them there at least for a meet-and-greet and introduction session in Fall 1966.

It doesn't make sense why they seem to have either forgotten or have neglected to mention that fact, that within their own band and family was a guy who had completed the course and instructions they were all but touting as a new revelation for them at the end of 1967 into 1968.

Again, let's accept and move beyond trying to confirm if it did or didn't happen, let's accept at face-value the Lewy details you posted as what most likely happened, and take it from there.  The book or ledger from SIMS or any other group would only confirm what Lewy said about Brian and Marilyn being there for studies if we could track it down, and that's not the answer or discussion we're looking for at this point if we accept that it happened.

[Cam Mott]

I am not following you I guess, I'm not sure what is now being questioned or why anymore.

If we accept the Lewy's account then we know that the Boys attended one lecture and then dropped out but Brian and Marilyn continued and jumped through all of the hoops necessary to become initiates at a ceremony by Buelah Smith. Whether any of them mentioned it or not in connection with another event does not really contradict it. The Lewys account shows a Brian with a lot of commitment to TM long before the other Boys had as much commitment. What are the quotes from Brian concerning the Maha? If the Lewys' detailed account is wrong then let's get the evidence to correct it.

The Boys went to a meeting and were not instructed or intitiated into TM by the Lewys and they also went to Paris and were instructed and initiated into TM by the Maha. They are both true and not contradictory, that they didn't bring up not being instructed in TM by the Lewys in connection with first being instructed in TM by the Maha doesn't make either untrue or even suspect imo. Until someone comes up with evidence that shows the Lewys were wrong or mistaken I guess we will just have to disagree.

[guitarfool2002]

Cam, I'm not arguing the Lewys' account at all, in fact as I've said several times (including in the post you just replied to) I'm going on the assumption that it happened as they told you it did, and also assuming the band members if asked would confirm it. I don't know why you posted this reply as if I'm arguing or challenging you on that when I'm not.    Honestly I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm disputing you or what you were told if I'm saying I'm specifically not! I really don't know how much more clear I could have been in my last post on that, other than to say let's accept that it was what the Lewys told you, and move beyond that to get into the other implications of this, especially with the history.

I'll repeat again for about the fourth time in an effort to move beyond the "did it happen or not?" stage...

Did everyone who would become involved in TM within the band (and that was all of them to start, two of them moving forward beyond the 60's) either have a lapse of memory and forget within a year that they were made aware of the practice a year before the UNICEF show in Paris, are they simply ignoring it in every TM-related interview when they pin down Paris '67 as the "first" time they were introduced after their bandmate was studying it and had them along for at least one introductory session a year earlier? Did they simply write it off in 1966 when Brian was exploring this alongside other spiritual pursuits? Or is there more to it, including some deeper reason we haven't heard as to why the fact that Brian had learned what all of them were publicly raving about throughout 1968 and beyond at least a full year before any of them say/claim they knew about it? Again, it just does not make sense and I'm curious to find out why one of their bandmates learning this in 1966 is not part of the "official" story as told through the years, and they repeatedly say and had said "Paris in 1967" was the starting point, the introduction.

Let me rephrase it just a bit: Someone through the years asks any of the band members "How did you first become aware of Transcendental Meditation?", and can you think of **any** instance where any of them mentioned either going to a session with Henry Lewy, or Brian taking weeks of courses on the meditation in 1966/67 and finding out about it then? I sure can't...it's always been "Paris 1967" as the answer, and it doesn't seem to be accurate based on the info in this thread.

[Cam Mott]

Cam, I'm not arguing the Lewys' account at all, in fact as I've said several times (including in the post you just replied to) I'm going on the assumption that it happened as they told you it did, and also assuming the band members if asked would confirm it. I don't know why you posted this reply as if I'm arguing or challenging you on that when I'm not.    Honestly I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm disputing you or what you were told if I'm saying I'm specifically not! I really don't know how much more clear I could have been in my last post on that, other than to say let's accept that it was what the Lewys told you, and move beyond that to get into the other implications of this, especially with the history.

I'll repeat again for about the fourth time in an effort to move beyond the "did it happen or not?" stage...

Did everyone who would become involved in TM within the band (and that was all of them to start, two of them moving forward beyond the 60's) either have a lapse of memory and forget within a year that they were made aware of the practice a year before the UNICEF show in Paris, are they simply ignoring it in every TM-related interview when they pin down Paris '67 as the "first" time they were introduced after their bandmate was studying it and had them along for at least one introductory session a year earlier? Did they simply write it off in 1966 when Brian was exploring this alongside other spiritual pursuits? Or is there more to it, including some deeper reason we haven't heard as to why the fact that Brian had learned what all of them were publicly raving about throughout 1968 and beyond at least a full year before any of them say/claim they knew about it? Again, it just does not make sense and I'm curious to find out why one of their bandmates learning this in 1966 is not part of the "official" story as told through the years, and they repeatedly say and had said "Paris in 1967" was the starting point, the introduction.

Let me rephrase it just a bit: Someone through the years asks any of the band members "How did you first become aware of Transcendental Meditation?", and can you think of **any** instance where any of them mentioned either going to a session with Henry Lewy, or Brian taking weeks of courses on the meditation in 1966/67 and finding out about it then? I sure can't...it's always been "Paris 1967" as the answer, and it doesn't seem to be accurate based on the info in this thread.

OK, maybe I've gotten it all along. I gave my answer to that question several times.

The quotes I've seen so far they just claim they first took instruction and initiation from Maha not that they didn't know anything about TM until Paris. Did I miss something? They could have forgotten about the one lecture at the Lewys but since Paris was a different event and context it doesn't seem odd to me that they didn't bring it up even if they did remember it.  The Lewys' claim that the Boys did not take instruction or initiation with them in 1966. The Boys claim they first did take instruction and initiation from the Maha in Paris in 1967. Neither contradicts the other. The Lewys' claim can be true and the Boys' statements can be true and there is no contradiction between the two. To me that is not a controversy because they don't contradict each other. I guess we will just disagree (if we are disagreeing) until new evidence is brought on.

[guitarfool2002]

If TM were not such a major part of the Beach Boys story up to the present day, it wouldn't be more than a blip on the radar screen. But I can't help but notice the almost total lack of any mention (except one sentence buried in the 1976 Rolling Stone cover story saying Brian was into it before any of them) that the band was aware of and introduced to it through Brian, through Henry Lewy, back in 1966. When Cam posted the transcripts in this thread, again at first I was skeptical as I often am but I'll say flat-out I believe it, I believe that Brian had been studying this method of meditation through the Lewys in 1966. He was studying a variety of spirituality/philosophy and exploring meditation through several channels, reported as early as 1966 in the press. We know, and have several reports including now Cam's conversations, that the other Beach Boys were introduced to at least two of these specific spiritual-meditation pursuits through Brian as early as 1966. I'll also assume what has been reported on any number of issues central to 1966/67 that Brian may simply have lost interest in the pursuit, decided something wasn't for him after studying and going deeper into it, and moved onto something new.

Maybe it was seeing two of the Beatles sitting with the Maharishi (and Henry Lewy) that really sparked the other band members' interest in Dec. 1967, but isn't it quite an omission to not see or find even a quote which said something like "we knew Brian was into this in 1966", "oh yeah, we went to a session with Brian in 1966", or anything of the sort? If you read any number of accounts, they all but suggest that UNICEF event was the first time they had been exposed to this kind of meditation and philosophy, and that is simply not the case as this thread would seem to prove. I'm wondering why meditation in 1966 seemingly gets ignored when we know the other band members were exposed to it through Brian, yet from 1968 onward it's like they found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow through TM meditation, centered on that 12/67 event where the Maharishi was there with a few Beatles.

[CenturyDeprived]

If TM were not such a major part of the Beach Boys story up to the present day, it wouldn't be more than a blip on the radar screen. But I can't help but notice the almost total lack of any mention (except one sentence buried in the 1976 Rolling Stone cover story saying Brian was into it before any of them) that the band was aware of and introduced to it through Brian, through Henry Lewy, back in 1966. When Cam posted the transcripts in this thread, again at first I was skeptical as I often am but I'll say flat-out I believe it, I believe that Brian had been studying this method of meditation through the Lewys in 1966. He was studying a variety of spirituality/philosophy and exploring meditation through several channels, reported as early as 1966 in the press. We know, and have several reports including now Cam's conversations, that the other Beach Boys were introduced to at least two of these specific spiritual-meditation pursuits through Brian as early as 1966. I'll also assume what has been reported on any number of issues central to 1966/67 that Brian may simply have lost interest in the pursuit, decided something wasn't for him after studying and going deeper into it, and moved onto something new.

Maybe it was seeing two of the Beatles sitting with the Maharishi (and Henry Lewy) that really sparked the other band members' interest in Dec. 1967, but isn't it quite an omission to not see or find even a quote which said something like "we knew Brian was into this in 1966", "oh yeah, we went to a session with Brian in 1966", or anything of the sort? If you read any number of accounts, they all but suggest that UNICEF event was the first time they had been exposed to this kind of meditation and philosophy, and that is simply not the case as this thread would seem to prove. I'm wondering why meditation in 1966 seemingly gets ignored when we know the other band members were exposed to it through Brian, yet from 1968 onward it's like they found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow through TM meditation, centered on that 12/67 event where the Maharishi was there with a few Beatles.

Maybe Mike wouldn't want to go out of his way to state that Brian got into TM (even though he didn't stay with it) before Mike himself did. Not terribly dissimilar from the oft-told Brianless creation of Kokomo. Yet Mike goes out of his way to credit Dennis with nudging him toward TM in the Facebook post. I admit it's an odd, if possibly inadvertent omission (by all the other bandmates too) that seems a bit like selective memory, any way you slice it.

[Cam Mott]

I wonder if Brian still practices TM?

Didn't he co-write "Transcendental Meditation" and sole author the "TM Song"? Maybe his interest extended to 1976 at least.

[guitarfool2002]

How long or how intensely did any of the band members practice meditation...who knows, right? But the way I worded that was specific: There is a difference between practicing meditation - which is a practice shared by nearly every religious and spiritual pursuit I can think of from Buddhism to Christianity to Islam and everything in between- and being a devoted follower of the Maharishi and his specific methods of teaching/learning meditation techniques through TM. There are interviews from the 70's posted on this site where various band members through the 70's mention meditation and specifically TM as something they did, but as far as how heavy or for how long they were doing it is anyone's guess. Note that both Lennon and McCartney talk positively about practicing meditation and even advise others to do it, but it was the overall scene and the corporate/celebrity aura around the Maharishi and those related issues which they rejected. Yet they were still advocating if not practicing meditation in general.

I also know of a 1966 magazine interview where Carl talks openly about God and spirituality, and similar 1966 interviews and reports that Brian was pursuing meditation and spirituality/philosophy which was not TM and which involved group discussions and classes/meetings that were separate from TM, at the same time he was *also* according to the info here pursuing TM through the Levys. And the other Beach Boys were reported to have been involved in some way in *those* as well at that time.

So again, factor this in as Brian exploring and studying a number of areas of spirituality and meditation around '66, and if nothing else he was actively engaged in these spiritual pursuits from a number of philosophies and sources.

***So why do you think the only mention of Brian being the first to explore or even introduce the other band to TM and other forms of meditation seems to have been a single sentence in a 1976 Rolling Stone article stating Brian was the first to explore TM? Cam's posts in this thread back that sentence up, so why when directly asked have (or do) none of the others mention this, especially since Nadine remembers "all six Beach Boys" being at one of her sessions? Is it really a case of selective memory as mentioned, or something else?

[Cam Mott]

I don't know, why did Brian never mention (as far as I know) that he had previously attended a full course of lectures and instruction and validation and verification and been very active and was still active and had even been initiated into TM? I'm guessing the same as I'm guessing for the Boys, it wasn't asked and/or didn't seem relevant in his/their mind?

I'm feeling that you have an opinion about the Boys, what is it?

[guitarfool2002]

I don't know, why did Brian never mention (as far as I know) that he had previously attended a full course of lectures and instruction and validation and verification and been very active and was still active and had even been initiated into TM? I'm guessing the same as I'm guessing for the Boys, it wasn't asked and/or didn't seem relevant in his/their mind?

I'm feeling that you have an opinion about the Boys, what is it?

Nice shot on the last sentence.    Just a reminder for how all of this entered the discussion in the first place:

According to Henry Lewy and his wife Brian had been some sort of certified TM instructor since late 66 with a ceremony and certificate and everything.

So let's say, Cam, you or I were to ask Brian about this in the near future and he'd say "yes, that sounds about right." Wouldn't that change what has been the answer for almost each and every time another band member has been asked "how did you first get into TM?" or some variation of that question? Because as I said about 4 times already, the answer is always some version of Paris-1967-Maharishi-UNICEF, etc. It's been a stock answer. Along with how "simple" the process and practice seemed to be, after - again - dating their introduction to Paris in 1967 with the Maharishi.

What you posted from talking with the Lewys changed the history most people have heard and which they have been told through various interviews and articles. I called what you posted a game-changer, I stand by that. If the Lewy version of events is true, and again I'm going on the assumption that it is, then any past, present, or future answer given to a question "when did you first become aware of TM?" which doesn't mention what the Lewys said about 1966 would not be accurate. Thanks to what you posted, we can now make that judgement.

So my thoughts on The Boys in all of this? Same as they were after you posted: Why have none of them mentioned that Brian was studying this in 1966 and they were introduced to it a full year before anyone has claimed they were introduced to it in Paris?

[Ian]

I'm just guessing-but probably the 1966 intro to TM wasn't that big a deal to the BBs.  I'm assuming that they weren't in the right head space in 1966 to get into it and may have just gone for a laugh.  Obviously being given a mantra and instructed by Maharishi is a lot more exciting and memorable than just attending a meeting with disciples.  You'd have to ask Mike but I wouldn't be surprised if he told you that he just went to that meeting with Brian for fun-and spent most of the meeting try to talk up some girl and really didn't pay much attention! In which case-he probably decided to just leave it out of his usual how I learned meditation interviews.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm just guessing-but probably the 1966 intro to TM wasn't that big a deal to the BBs.  I'm assuming that they weren't in the right head space in 1966 to get into it and may have just gone for a laugh.  Obviously being given a mantra and instructed by Maharishi is a lot more exciting and memorable than just attending a meeting with disciples.  You'd have to ask Mike but I wouldn't be surprised if he told you that he just went to that meeting with Brian for fun-and spent most of the meeting try to talk up some girl and really didn't pay much attention! In which case-he probably decided to just leave it out of his usual how I learned meditation interviews.

Ian, I'm happy to see you adding to this discussion. As someone who has done extensive research and has published on the topic of BB's history including referencing and turning up much lost or forgotten archival material, have you ever come across any mention of the kind of information Cam posted here via his conversations with Henry and Nadine Lewy? I cannot recall anything of the sort being mentioned, apart from one brief sentence in the 1976 Rolling Stone cover story, especially about TM and 1966. That's why I'm hung up on what Cam posted, it's information I've never seen even hinted at beyond that single sentence in RS.

[Ian]

No I haven't but I think Brian mentions studying meditation prior to 1968 in the 1968 interview with Jamake Hightower, that is or was available online as an audio file

[Cam Mott]

If you accept what the Lewys said I guess I'm puzzled as to why you are still puzzled by it.

If you accept it then the Boys went to one lecture out of seven, the lecturer herself said (16 years ago) that they may have heard a lecture about "Deep Meditation" not TM.

We don't know if they ever heard the  Maha's name. It was the first lecture. maybe someone can turn a script for the lectures of 1966 if they kept detailed records. They weren't interested enough to attend even one more lecture and they didn't mention it two years later. Perhaps that is another indication that they didn't hear anything about something called TM or a guy named Maharishi Mahesh Yogi or how little they cared about or listened to the lecture they attended. We can't prove a negative especially with speculation.

But if you accept the witness then we do know that the Boys both went to a lecture and also didn't mention it two years later. For whatever reason.

Is there some other meaning suggested to you by the Boys' not mentioning they had gone to a lecture two years earlier?

[GhostyTMRS]

I don't know if this adds anything to the discussion or not or has any value, but Robbie Krieger and John Densmore of The Doors were both enrolled in Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's TM classes in 1965 in Los Angeles. Densmore writes about it in his book and expresses his and Robbie's surprise in 1967 when the Maharishi turned up on TV with The Beatles, joking that the Maharishi went after the big prize or something like that.

I would think that if those two were into TM that early in the game, there must've been some sort of hipster TM awareness in Los Angeles.

[Dancing Bear]

Great thread.

Two possibilities:

a. the Beach Boys did go to a meeting but it didn't register in their memories as 'Maharishi's TM" but as "one of those Brian's new age things".

b. While I'm certain that the Lewis introduced Brian and Marylin to TM in 1966, "all six Beach Boys" present at one meeting may be a case of faulty memory decades after the fact. Brian and some friends of his age (Loren et all) may be at first misunderstood as his rock band, a notion perhaps corrected afterwards but then years after Nadine thinks she remembers having met all six Beach Boys in a meeting.

[guitarfool2002]

Cam, what are you getting at? Did I say I was "puzzled" by it? I said I was hung up on it, I was interested in it, I wanted to pursue it further, and I thanked you multiple times for sharing it. What surprised me, and this is why I asked Ian about it too since he has done a huge amount of research on this history, is how it has never been mentioned or hinted at before you posted it.

If I say it's surprising and I wonder how and why no one seems to have remembered this within the band, does that cover your band question which you've now asked me twice?  

In return, can I ask you one question?      I will anyway:

Why did you bring up this topic in the first place by mentioning Brian getting certified as a TM instructor in 1966 (with ceremony) in the first place? I don't recall or simply can't find the name "Brian" being mentioned at all in this thread until you did. Not saying the information you posted via the Lewys wasn't appreciated, but just curious anyway what made you bring it up in this conversation.

[guitarfool2002]

I don't know if this adds anything to the discussion or not or has any value, but Robbie Krieger and John Densmore of The Doors were both enrolled in Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's TM classes in 1965 in Los Angeles. Densmore writes about it in his book and expresses his and Robbie's surprise in 1967 when the Maharishi turned up on TV with The Beatles, joking that the Maharishi went after the big prize or something like that.

I would think that if those two were into TM that early in the game, there must've been some sort of hipster TM awareness in Los Angeles.

Ghosty, it wasn't just TM but rather a variety of meditation outlets and techniques, a lot of different offshoots of Eastern philosophy and meditation-based religion and philosophy. I specifically mentioned a few of the TM-specific outlets and names earlier in some of my ramblings, but let's just say there were many, many different avenues for spiritual enlightenment being sought in and around hip LA in 1965-66, and Brian seems to have covered a good half-dozen or more of them himself! 

I have Brian and Carl in magazines in 1966 talking about spirituality/religion and their pursuits of it, so it was definitely being talked about in the open, even in the so-called "teen" press.

With The Doors, take note of the name "Beulah Smith", just to recap she was the only person certified by the Maharishi to teach and bring his TM method of meditation to California in the early 60's. Just like the Lewys, if the Doors learned or studied TM in the early days like 1965, chances are it was from an instructor who had learned it directly from Beulah Smith as she was for a time the only one who could do it in California.

[Cam Mott]

Cam, what are you getting at? Did I say I was "puzzled" by it? I said I was hung up on it, I was interested in it, I wanted to pursue it further, and I thanked you multiple times for sharing it. What surprised me, and this is why I asked Ian about it too since he has done a huge amount of research on this history, is how it has never been mentioned or hinted at before you posted it.

If I say it's surprising and I wonder how and why no one seems to have remembered this within the band, does that cover your band question which you've now asked me twice?  

In return, can I ask you one question?      I will anyway:

Why did you bring up this topic in the first place by mentioning Brian getting certified as a TM instructor in 1966 (with ceremony) in the first place? I don't recall or simply can't find the name "Brian" being mentioned at all in this thread until you did. Not saying the information you posted via the Lewys wasn't appreciated, but just curious anyway what made you bring it up in this conversation.

OK, surprised. Carry on. I don't find it particularly surprising.

People on page 2 were discussing who in the group was how invested in the Maha and TM.

[guitarfool2002]

Cam, what are you getting at? Did I say I was "puzzled" by it? I said I was hung up on it, I was interested in it, I wanted to pursue it further, and I thanked you multiple times for sharing it. What surprised me, and this is why I asked Ian about it too since he has done a huge amount of research on this history, is how it has never been mentioned or hinted at before you posted it.

If I say it's surprising and I wonder how and why no one seems to have remembered this within the band, does that cover your band question which you've now asked me twice?  

In return, can I ask you one question?      I will anyway:

Why did you bring up this topic in the first place by mentioning Brian getting certified as a TM instructor in 1966 (with ceremony) in the first place? I don't recall or simply can't find the name "Brian" being mentioned at all in this thread until you did. Not saying the information you posted via the Lewys wasn't appreciated, but just curious anyway what made you bring it up in this conversation.

OK, surprised. Carry on. I don't find it particularly surprising.

People on page 2 were discussing who in the group was how invested in the Maha and TM.

I think they were more wondering who was in support of the Maharishi touring with them in 1968 among the voting members. I assume it got a majority "yes" vote since it happened, but what apparently got all "no" votes except Mike's lone "yes" was the idea of funding a Maharishi movie through Brother, as described earlier here. I forget the source, but that was rejected out of hand. I wonder if that vote was before or after the tour?

[Cam Mott]

Great thread.

Two possibilities:

a. the Beach Boys did go to a meeting but it didn't register in their memories as 'Maharishi's TM" but as "one of those Brian's new age things".

b. While I'm certain that the Lewis introduced Brian and Marylin to TM in 1966, "all six Beach Boys" present at one meeting may be a case of faulty memory decades after the fact. Brian and some friends of his age (Loren et all) may be at first misunderstood as his rock band, a notion perhaps corrected afterwards but then years after Nadine thinks she remembers having met all six Beach Boys in a meeting.

Yep, I've wondered about "b". I didn't pursue it 16 years ago I guess because Henry said he had known the group from Western and the group was conversing with him at Western and he had invited the group. I don't know beyond that how well Henry Lewy knew how many Beach Boys but Nadine also said the whole group attended the first meeting and she made a distinction between the group attending with Brian and others not from the group attending later lectures with Brian.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm assuming Henry would have personally known Carl too, since he was with Brian on more sessions in 65-66 than the others, and I'm assuming even stronger that he would have known Bruce since Bruce was doing sessions on his own and playing with the same musicians Henry was working with in those studios. I don't know, but I wouldn't doubt Henry and Bruce may have even worked on the same session at some point.

Was The Association mentioned in your talks?

[Cam Mott]

Cam, what are you getting at? Did I say I was "puzzled" by it? I said I was hung up on it, I was interested in it, I wanted to pursue it further, and I thanked you multiple times for sharing it. What surprised me, and this is why I asked Ian about it too since he has done a huge amount of research on this history, is how it has never been mentioned or hinted at before you posted it.

If I say it's surprising and I wonder how and why no one seems to have remembered this within the band, does that cover your band question which you've now asked me twice?  

In return, can I ask you one question?      I will anyway:

Why did you bring up this topic in the first place by mentioning Brian getting certified as a TM instructor in 1966 (with ceremony) in the first place? I don't recall or simply can't find the name "Brian" being mentioned at all in this thread until you did. Not saying the information you posted via the Lewys wasn't appreciated, but just curious anyway what made you bring it up in this conversation.

OK, surprised. Carry on. I don't find it particularly surprising.

People on page 2 were discussing who in the group was how invested in the Maha and TM.

I think they were more wondering who was in support of the Maharishi touring with them in 1968 among the voting members. I assume it got a majority "yes" vote since it happened, but what apparently got all "no" votes except Mike's lone "yes" was the idea of funding a Maharishi movie through Brother, as described earlier here. I forget the source, but that was rejected out of hand. I wonder if that vote was before or after the tour?

The posts just before mine are about who was how impressed and involved with/by the Maha and TM.

I don't know/remember anything about a movie or when it was voted on. If after, maybe they couldn't afford the movie after they voted to throw away their money on their TM tour.

[Cam Mott]

I'm assuming Henry would have personally known Carl too, since he was with Brian on more sessions in 65-66 than the others, and I'm assuming even stronger that he would have known Bruce since Bruce was doing sessions on his own and playing with the same musicians Henry was working with in those studios. I don't know, but I wouldn't doubt Henry and Bruce may have even worked on the same session at some point.

Was The Association mentioned in your talks?

Didn't the whole group record vocals at Western before Columbia? How long was Lewy on staff?

The only mention of the Association was by Henry and he said one of the Association house-sat for them while they were in India in 1967.

Henry didn't say who it was but I believe there is a liner notes quote by Gary Alexander on the  “and then…along comes The Association” album saying he “doesn’t smoke, drink or eat meat and would like to travel to India to ‘study the mystic religious life there’.”  So maybe him?

[guitarfool2002]

I'm assuming Henry would have personally known Carl too, since he was with Brian on more sessions in 65-66 than the others, and I'm assuming even stronger that he would have known Bruce since Bruce was doing sessions on his own and playing with the same musicians Henry was working with in those studios. I don't know, but I wouldn't doubt Henry and Bruce may have even worked on the same session at some point.

Was The Association mentioned in your talks?

Didn't the whole group record vocals at Western before Columbia? How long was Lewy on staff?

The only mention of the Association was by Henry and he said one of the Association house-sat for them while they were in India in 1967.

Henry didn't say who it was but I believe there is a liner notes quote by Gary Alexander on the  “and then…along comes The Association” album saying he “doesn’t smoke, drink or eat meat and would like to travel to India to ‘study the mystic religious life there’.”  So maybe him?

I got the impression Henry was more of a freelancer, I don't think he was specifically employed by Western/United and was producing and engineering too, kind of like Bones Howe. He worked at Gold Star on some famous records, along with the other big studios, which is how I thought he and Bruce would have known each other if they did.

Jules/Gary Alexander actually did go to India in May 1967 or thereabouts, and ended up leaving the band until 1969, so perhaps it was him! I ask too because it sounds like Alexander may have followed Henry Lewy's lead with TM if that's what he traveled to India to do, but the other band members were more heavily involved in a non-TM spiritual/meditation group and philosophy at the time (1966) and have spoken about it, I just wondered if that had come up with Henry.