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Author Topic: Mike & Carl in Late 1997 Question/Discussion  (Read 60241 times)
SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2014, 05:58:39 PM »

Mike was one sick egomaniac from Kokomo on. Really thinks he is the whole BBs brand and Carl/Al weren't important anymore. I think Carl's death delayed something really important that happened during the C50, Brian righting the BBs unit and legacy.
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2014, 06:08:15 PM »

I saw them in summer of 1997 -- my one time seeing the band with Carl -- and except for the fact that he sat down for some of the show, and that Mike made a fuss over him at one point, you wouldn't have any idea that things were amiss. He sounded perfect.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2014, 06:09:07 PM »

Mike was one sick egomaniac from Kokomo on. Really thinks he is the whole BBs brand and Carl/Al weren't important anymore. I think Carl's death delayed something really important that happened during the C50, Brian righting the BBs unit and legacy.

It's a mighty curious thought to think of how history might have been different if Kokomo had never happened. Maybe it's an exaggeration, but I think the power grab maneuvering that happened from the early 90s on, up until and including the events that happened around the time of Carl's passing, might have been more out of reach for Mike.  Or maybe not. (And I totally dig the song Kokomo, by the way - but the heightened egomania might have had ramifications that outweighed whatever good came out of the Kokomo #1 fluke).

I don't know what to think about Mike not wanting to play shows with Carl after a certain point. I want to think it was out of love and nothing more. I really do want to think that; still, it seems a bit baffling to understand as an outsider. People freak out at other peoples' illnesses and grieve in different ways, I'm well aware of that. That said, I'm not sure that the shoe would have ever been on the other foot, if it had been Mike who was ill.  I can't imagine his mates refusing to play onstage with him.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 06:11:02 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2014, 06:11:59 PM »

Mike was one sick egomaniac from Kokomo on. Really thinks he is the whole BBs brand and Carl/Al weren't important anymore. I think Carl's death delayed something really important that happened during the C50, Brian righting the BBs unit and legacy.

I used to think you were a parody account, but you really believe this stuff, don't you?
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2014, 06:27:48 PM »

Look, after kokomo's success, Mike's ego went through the roof and he thought he really was the only important BB. This ego trip was carried out with his control of the liveshow with tackey cheerleaders and a stale setlist. But the real power moves were carried out behind the scenes to kick Al out and put an unwell David Marks in. Carl's illness provided an easier way to speed up this process.
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2014, 06:34:45 PM »

No arguing that, but do you really think Mike cared little for Carl? I mean, really ?
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« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2014, 06:39:25 PM »

He did in his own way, but refusing to appear on stage with him could be seen as a way to ease David Marks in the group to get rid of Al. I am surprised Mike would refuse Carl's wish of doing what he loved until the end.
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2014, 06:50:44 PM »

Nah...I don't think Mike refused anything. I think Carl was getting far too sick at that point. I know I'd be uncomfortable watching a family member suffer through a terminal illness, esp. when you consider the grind of touring doesn't exactly have a positive effect on a healthy person.

As for Al....they shitcanned him for a bit in 1992, and Carl wasn't sick then, so...
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« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2014, 06:53:26 PM »

Gotcha Billy, what the whole saga was really about was the real BBs falling apart into M&B.
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2014, 07:00:11 PM »

He did in his own way, but refusing to appear on stage with him could be seen as a way to ease David Marks in the group to get rid of Al. I am surprised Mike would refuse Carl's wish of doing what he loved until the end.

I'm still not clear if the idea of getting David Marks into the band (with the ulterior motive to oust Al) was in progress in any way, even behind the scenes, before Carl got sick. Was Carl in any way aware of this?   Apologies if this has been covered before. From memory, I think I've read conflicting reports, but this whole very awkward era seems (understandably) somewhat shrouded in mystery.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 07:13:10 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2014, 07:10:42 PM »

I thought it was said that Carl developed a blood clot, and had to leave the tour for health/medical reasons.

This and other things may all be true. It just seems extra odd, especially if Carl *did* choose to take the leave of absence, for Elliott Lott to confirm that Mike didn't want to appear on stage with Carl (however justified or not his feelings may have been). That makes it sound like there was a disagreement about it at some point involving somebody. If Carl chose to leave, or was forced to, why would Mike or anyone else need to even express an opinion about whether they felt it was appropriate for Carl to be on stage?

Maybe someone could provide the actual quotes.

Oh, someone did.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 07:22:32 PM by Cam Mott » Logged

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« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2014, 07:20:50 PM »

He did in his own way, but refusing to appear on stage with him could be seen as a way to ease David Marks in the group to get rid of Al. I am surprised Mike would refuse Carl's wish of doing what he loved until the end.

I'm still not clear if the idea of getting David Marks into the band (with the ulterior motive to oust Al) was in progress in any way, even behind the scenes, before Carl got sick. Was Carl in any way aware of this?   Apologies if this has been covered before. From memory, I think I've read conflicting reports, but this whole very awkward era seems (understandably) somewhat shrouded in mystery.

Didn't Jon Stebbins say something about Dave being prepped to take Al's place before Carl's illness? I don't have the FAQ book nearby (been packing) but I could've sworn I read it there.
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« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2014, 07:24:54 PM »

So when was it that Mike removed himself from the tour and Al and Carl carried on without him?
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« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2014, 07:29:03 PM »

The hell?!
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« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2014, 07:31:23 PM »

Are you talking to me?
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« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2014, 07:32:00 PM »

So when was it that Mike removed himself from the tour and Al and Carl carried on without him?

Mid 1990.
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2014, 07:35:44 PM »

So when was it that Mike removed himself from the tour and Al and Carl carried on without him?

Mid 1990.

Hmm. Elliott Lott implied it was while Carl was very sick. What were those dates?  Did I read it wrong?

Edit: no it says in 1997. How many dates did Mike sit out in 1997?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 07:39:28 PM by Cam Mott » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2014, 07:50:08 PM »

Are you talking to me?

Yeah, because I wasn't sure what you were asking, or why. You know goodness well Mike didn't sit out in 1997. So, I'm not sure why you asked that.
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« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2014, 07:55:06 PM »

Are you talking to me?

Yeah, because I wasn't sure what you were asking, or why. You know goodness well Mike didn't sit out in 1997. So, I'm not sure why you asked that.

Just more of his "Mike can do no wrong"
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 08:06:24 PM by bgas » Logged

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« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2014, 07:59:36 PM »

Are you talking to me?

Yeah, because I wasn't sure what you were asking, or why. You know goodness well Mike didn't sit out in 1997. So, I'm not sure why you asked that.

Because Lott said Mike refused to tour with Carl and Al in 1997 but apparently he didn't actually miss any dates. Just trying make sense of it all.
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« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2014, 08:28:59 PM »

Gotcha. Well, we know what happened with Carl, and if Carl hadn't gotten too sick Al would've been out sooner.
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« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2014, 08:39:02 PM »

Gotcha. Well, we know what happened with Carl, and if Carl hadn't gotten too sick Al would've been out sooner.

Right but according to Lott Mike supposedly refused to tour with Al either in 1997 but he did, so, confusing.
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« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2014, 08:57:35 PM »

If Carl hadn't gotten sick, Al would've been out sooner. Simple as that. They weren't going to replace TWO members that year, regardless of how much Mike wanted Al out for whatever reason.
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« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2014, 08:58:39 PM »

He did in his own way, but refusing to appear on stage with him could be seen as a way to ease David Marks in the group to get rid of Al. I am surprised Mike would refuse Carl's wish of doing what he loved until the end.

I'm still not clear if the idea of getting David Marks into the band (with the ulterior motive to oust Al) was in progress in any way, even behind the scenes, before Carl got sick. Was Carl in any way aware of this?   Apologies if this has been covered before. From memory, I think I've read conflicting reports, but this whole very awkward era seems (understandably) somewhat shrouded in mystery.

Didn't Jon Stebbins say something about Dave being prepped to take Al's place before Carl's illness? I don't have the FAQ book nearby (been packing) but I could've sworn I read it there.

Yeah. Page 217

quote re Carl's illness 1997.

...but the process initiated of welcoming David to participate in occasional Beach Boys concerts and media appearances had already begun years before.


Although it is on the same page as Al being on the outer, it does not directly say Dave was replacing Al. Al also say's Bruce was close to being replaced at the same time.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 09:02:34 PM by Pretty Funky » Logged
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« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2014, 09:13:38 PM »

If Bruce was ousted then, or even better, back when Billy Hinsche was allegedly going to replace him...how different would BB history be now? Would Mike still have the BB name now? Would we be talking about BW vs the Mike and Al, or Mike and Dave bands? Or would he be touring under his own name, and Brian would've had the name? Would we have the Beach Boys as Brian, Al, and Bruce with Mike doing shows under his own name?

The mind boggles.
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