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Author Topic: The Beatles  (Read 3320 times)
Chocolate Shake Man
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« on: September 29, 2014, 07:01:57 PM »

So I'm sitting here putting together a playlist called "Beatles Jukebox" which is an attempt to bring together as much of the music that The Beatles listened to in their years together as a band (it's an ongoing, lengthy endeavour) when I thought, I'd like to start a whole thread to discuss the band on the Smiley board. There's a lot of good people who know a lot more than I do about the band and I don't get to discuss them as much as I'd like to.

Sure, there are other threads devoted to them but they are frequently very specific and I wanted to start one to dump all the general questions and observations that I (and hopefully others) come up with.

So, here's the first one: does anyone know what the thinking was about the Get Back album by the time the band started to record Abbey Road. I know the sessions sort of flowed into one another but I think it's fascinating that as they were recording AR, they didn't think so much about including any of the songs slated to be on GB. I suppose they recorded some of the AR songs during the GB sessions, like Maxwell, but I'm not sure if they were ever serious contenders for that album. In other words, just as it's kind of amazing that The Beach Boys sat on songs like Cabinessence and Surf's Up, it's amazing that The Beatles sat on a song like Let It Be for as long as they did. Imagine Abbey Road with Let It Be on it. So I suppose, on some level, there was always an assumption that Get Back was going to come out? I read an interview by McCartney recently from 1970 where he says that it's kind of a joke that the album has taken so long to get out. So I suppose that's my first question and observation...

I will also happily accept questions/help about the jukebox endeavour if anyone is interested. It's been partly motivated by the phenomenal new Mark Lewisohn book, which I'd also love to talk about.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 07:13:05 PM by rockandroll » Logged
JohnMill
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2014, 07:48:28 PM »

There is a lot to be written on this subject, in fact Beatles author John Winn devotes several pages to this chapter of The Beatles career in his book "Lifting Latches".  But to summarize: After the January, 1969 sessions for "Get Back/Let It Be" had concluded, The Beatles more or less washed their hands of the project and dumped the tapes in the lap of engineer Glyn Johns.  Although they did schedule two further sessions (one in February of 1969 and one in January of 1970) devoted to working on the project, essentially when the "Let It Be" sessions were brought to a conclusion at the end of January of 1969, those sessions were placed in the rear view mirror as far as The Beatles were concerned.  They eventually moved onto recording "Abbey Road" which dominated most of their time throughout the spring and summer of 1969.

Meanwhile both Michael Lindsay Hogg and Glyn Johns were hard at work trying to realize both video and audio works from the January 1969 sessions.  Lindsay Hogg worked on editing together a film from the hours of footage shot for the project, while Johns began to compile what he felt were the best representative recordings from the January sessions.  Going back as far to when the sessions were still in progress, Johns felt that there was a potential album in the making and had begun to mix down certain tracks for The Beatles' perusal.  After returning from the United States in March of 1969, Johns began to seriously work on compiling an album from the sessions along with mixing down the tracks: "Get Back" and "Don't Let Me Down" which were slated for an upcoming single release.  During the spring of 1969, Johns presented The Beatles with two similar versions of his idea for a "Get Back" album.  They were both rejected for different reasons and the project was eventually put into cold storage throughout the summer of 1969 while Lindsay Hogg continued his work on the accompanying film.

This is another aspect that needs to be implicitly understood regarding the entire project.  That is that the "Get Back/Let It Be" project was always going to be a multimedia affair to some degree encompassing not only a new Beatles album but either an accompanying television special or film and an accompanying book of photographs and text by Jonathan Cott and David Dalton.  So to one degree or another, The Beatles had to sit on their hands regarding the project until Lindsay Hogg had completed his end of the project. 

Lindsay Hogg apparently completed his final print for "Let It Be" in the fall of 1969 and The Beatles instructed Glyn Johns to compile a "Get Back" album in line with the content of the film.  This Johns did although it did necessitate the aforementioned January, 1970 session where The Threetles properly recorded George Harrison's "I Me Mine" for the project.  Ultimately however Johns' mix was once again rejected and Phil Spector having impressed John Lennon with his work on "Instant Karma", was brought on board to sort the entire mess out.  The rest as they say was history although Paul McCartney was none too happy about it once he heard Spector's mixes.

So to make a long story short, The Beatles always intended for a "Get Back" album to be issued but were never satisfied with the compilations that Glyn Johns was presenting them throughout 1969 and into 1970.
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2014, 07:59:13 PM »

Thanks so much for that insight, John. Looking forward to your answer to my next question!
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2014, 07:12:54 AM »

OK, as I have been researching for the Beatles Jukebox, a big hole in my research is what the band was listening to in 1967. The area where I have most information is the pre-fame era. Mark Lewisohn's book details the records the band was buying during this period, and we also have access to all the songs that the band was covering from that period. From 1963 to 1966 we have a pretty good record based on comments from press conferences and interviews where they were repeatedly asked the kind of music they were listening to.

Then 1967 rolls around. They aren't giving as many interviews, and when they do, they don't talk so much about their musical tastes. They have been several accounts of Lennon being obsessed with "Whiter Shade of Pale" but none of my research shows him ever personally commenting on the song at all (though I've read far from everything!). So all that evidence is anecdotal. Paul seems to have been into Hendrix but I'm not sure if that was just the live shows he saw or if he ever bought the records. Certainly George was listening to a lot of Indian music though which ones I am not sure of. We know they were listening to Donovan too - the Day in the Life video shows them listening to the Sunshine Superman album, though I don't know if they had any particular favourites. Beyond that, there is very little.

There are some leads - the band got the Bonzo Doo Dah band for MMT and then McCartney went on to produce them the following year, so they may have been listening to their debut. Lennon, meanwhile, says vaguely that "You Know My Name" was originally written as a Four Tops kind of a song, though which one, I'm not sure. Possibly Reach Out? Standing in the Shadows?

I'm left curious, then. Were they still into stuff like Soul Man, and Sweet Soul Music or had the moved on from the soul sound? Aretha Franklin was big that year but they don't seem to comment whereas in previous years they were all over the latest R&B artists. You'd figure that maybe someone like the Spencer Davis Group would have been interesting to, at least, Paul.

After '67, it becomes a bit easier to figure out what they like again. Any thoughts?
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2014, 08:55:37 AM »

Okay, no takers on that one.

How about this oddity. Here's Paul on Desert Island Discs in, I think, 1982. One of the songs he chooses is Searchin' by The Coasters and he says here that when The Beatles did it in the Cavern, John would sing the lead. But, of course, he didn't. Searchin' was definitely a Paul song, as evidenced by Decca audition. Seems like such a strange lapse in memory. Must mean he really did die  Roll Eyes

Here's the clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6kmDI-mw-Q
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2014, 01:16:38 PM »

I think that their Hamburg Tapes cd would partially answer your question Rocker, as they played sets of  mostly cover versions of other artists at that time.Sadly, I have misplaced my copy, and cannot list them here for you....
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2014, 05:15:24 PM »

Thanks very much, Peter!

I know the Hamburg tapes and have a ton of material for what The Beatles listened to in that era. My historical blind spot is more around 1967 when it becomes less clear what they are listening to.

Even in 1968 in an interview, Paul is asked to name his favourite bands and he says The Lovin' Spoonful, The Beach Boys, and Nilsson. Nilsson was, of course, a new favourite at the time but The Beatles were name-checking Spoonful and the Beach Boys in 1966. It almost seems as if there was a void for the band in 1967, which is funny because it's often positioned as such a crucial year in music (partly, though, because of Pepper).
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 05:12:55 AM »

I read somewhere that they told Jake Thackray they liked his song "The Statues" (1967) . Can't recall where.
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 07:26:53 AM »

In 1967 John Lennon had "A Whiter Shade of Pale" by Procul Harum on constant rotation.

I also know that around that time Paul was listening to a lot music by Karlheinz Stockhausen.
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2014, 06:10:22 PM »

In 1967 John Lennon had "A Whiter Shade of Pale" by Procul Harum on constant rotation.

Yes, there have been enough second-hand reports on this (the most recent that I can recall coming from Derek Taylor's wife) that it must be true. It's just funny that despite all the reports I've never actually seen a first hand Lennon comment about the song. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, I've just yet to come across it.

Quote
I also know that around that time Paul was listening to a lot music by Karlheinz Stockhausen.

Right! I will add that.

I read somewhere that they told Jake Thackray they liked his song "The Statues" (1967) . Can't recall where.

Let me know if you find it. I haven't come across it yet. Problem is there are a slew of artist who go around claiming that Lennon and McCartney came up to them and told them personally how much they loved their song (Ray Davies' Wonderboy, Keith's 98.6 spring to mind) but there is no record of them actually claiming to like these songs.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 07:57:19 PM by rockandroll » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2014, 11:42:57 AM »



I read somewhere that they told Jake Thackray they liked his song "The Statues" (1967) . Can't recall where.

Let me know if you find it. I haven't come across it yet. Problem is there are a slew of artist who go around claiming that Lennon and McCartney came up to them and told them personally how much they loved their song (Ray Davies' Wonderboy, Keith's 98.6 spring to mind) but there is no record of them actually claiming to like these songs.

OK, found it, it was from the sleevenotes of the Jake collection "Jake in a Box" written by Victor Lewis-Smith (2006).  No sources are cited.

"March 1967 saw his first visit to Abbey Road's Studio 2, to record simple acoustic versions of his songs. The Beatles were working on Sgt. Pepper at the same time, and John Lennon approached Jake to tell him that "I like your gear man", then proceeded to quote the lyrics to The Statues."

Though you will consider this story unsubstantiated, it has more of a ring of truth to it when you know Jake frequently appeared singing his songs on UK TV at the time.
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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2014, 12:40:11 PM »



I read somewhere that they told Jake Thackray they liked his song "The Statues" (1967) . Can't recall where.

Let me know if you find it. I haven't come across it yet. Problem is there are a slew of artist who go around claiming that Lennon and McCartney came up to them and told them personally how much they loved their song (Ray Davies' Wonderboy, Keith's 98.6 spring to mind) but there is no record of them actually claiming to like these songs.

OK, found it, it was from the sleevenotes of the Jake collection "Jake in a Box" written by Victor Lewis-Smith (2006).  No sources are cited.

"March 1967 saw his first visit to Abbey Road's Studio 2, to record simple acoustic versions of his songs. The Beatles were working on Sgt. Pepper at the same time, and John Lennon approached Jake to tell him that "I like your gear man", then proceeded to quote the lyrics to The Statues."

Though you will consider this story unsubstantiated, it has more of a ring of truth to it when you know Jake frequently appeared singing his songs on UK TV at the time.

Thanks for that. I don't dismiss it but I do find certain elements here questionable based on what I have encountered in a bit of investigating (I admit, I had never heard of Jack Thackray until you mentioned him). From what I can see, Thackray was not on BBC TV at the time. He began recording as a result of BBC radio appearances though this website lists his archived appearances and only finds two from before 1970 (two appearances in 1966):

http://www.jakethackray.com/archive/performances/radio/165-in-the-bbc-archive-27576607.html

It is quite possible that Lennon heard those two performances, but I'd be surprised that he would be able to quote lyrics from a song he heard maybe twice a year earlier. But, of course, there could always be unaccounted for BBC appearances.

Furthermore, though, Wikipedia has it that Thackray began recording his first album in August of 1967 (on which The Statues appears) in August of 1967.

This doesn't mean that all this didn't happen, but it also fits so nicely with other examples that I've seen.
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2014, 12:56:56 PM »



Furthermore, though, Wikipedia has it that Thackray began recording his first album in August of 1967 (on which The Statues appears) in August of 1967.


The story is said to have happened not during the recording sessions of the actual album but earlier solo acoustic sessions that remained unreleased till the box set.

As for the TV appearances, that link only refers to BBC appearances, whereas Jake usually appeared on Bernard Braden's shows on the commercial network ITV.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 01:01:22 PM by unreleased backgrounds » Logged

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