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Author Topic: Beach Boys Pile Up In California  (Read 63964 times)
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« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2014, 08:15:17 AM »

What would be neat is if all three touring bands happen to be playing at the exact same time on the same day, and all three happen to hit the bass vocal break of Help Me Rhonda (bow bow bow bow...) at the *exact* second, right on the same downbeat, from three different stages.

This could trigger a cosmic time-space event which would see Mike begin adjusting Bruce's mic stand as Bruce launches into "Love And Mercy" from his keyboard, David and his band start playing "Pisces Brothers", and Brian and Al back off the mics and start tearing up "Pipeline" with Al taking the surf guitar lead and Brian ripping into the electric piano solo.

Hey, we can dream, right?  LOL
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« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2014, 12:30:07 AM »

Indeed. It is also quite simple:

C50 = The Beach Boys
all the rest = not The Beach Boys

The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts

I dunno; I agree that the 50th lineup was the ideal, but I'd have considered the Jones Beach lineup that never quite was -- Mike, Bruce, Al, David, plus Jeff, Scott, and John from the 50th band -- to be the Beach Boys too.  Just like all the other years where Brian stayed home while The Beach Boys went on tour.

Mike/Al/David/Bruce is a viable a touring Beach Boys as Mike/Al/Carl/Bruce was.  With Jeff thrown into the mix, that group would be to "Radio" what Mike/Al/Carl/Bruce/Dennis was to "Beach Boys Today" or "Pet Sounds" -- everyone but Brian, a perfectly viable set of messengers.

And the reason why *that* lineup didn't happen is a whole other can of worms which no one seems to have dared open yet...

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« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2014, 05:48:14 AM »

C50 was the definition of synergistic. The whole was substantially greater than the sum of the parts.
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« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2014, 08:32:25 AM »

Starting to think 2012 might have been a mass hallucination.

Only the fact that my 2-y-o is potty training reminds me that it was all very real.
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« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2014, 08:48:10 AM »

The C50 tour was great but imo it shouldn`t overshadow how good us fans have it at the moment.

If anyone had said in 1998 that Brian in 2014 would be about to release a new CD of original songs and would be touring with Al then people would have been thrilled.

If anyone had said that Mike and Bruce would have the calibre of band that they have, that they would play a fair few rarities and would leave the cheerleaders at home then jaws would have dropped.

Good times...
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« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2014, 10:21:55 AM »

The C50 tour was great but imo it shouldn`t overshadow how good us fans have it at the moment.

If anyone had said in 1998 that Brian in 2014 would be about to release a new CD of original songs and would be touring with Al then people would have been thrilled.

If anyone had said that Mike and Bruce would have the calibre of band that they have, that they would play a fair few rarities and would leave the cheerleaders at home then jaws would have dropped.

Good times...

I’m glad some fans can keep telling themselves that. I really wish I could. I take a very measured approach of course. It’s awesome these guys are still alive and still doing stuff. It could be worse, no question.

Brian still being active is great. That he lets Al tag along is cool. Though it’s a bummer that two years into their post-C50 work together, Al isn’t really featuring heavily in Brian’s projects. We don’t know how much of Al’s studio work (if any) will be on Brian’s new album, and by Al’s own admission he’s very much just a sideman at the live shows and doesn’t have any input into the setlists.

Mike has essentially over the years finally luckily stumbled into kind of a “mini” version of Brian’s backing band, in that he finally in the last 6-7 years has been lucky enough to get an uber-nerd Beach Boys guy (Totten) to spearhead getting his band sounding good, an energetic drummer, and recently landed one of Brian’s own band members.

But all these are lesser articles, as much as we try to talk ourselves into how “awesome” thing still are.

Mike’s show features seemingly an hour or more of non-Beach Boys singing leads.

That Brian is still heading live shows is impressive in and of itself, but he seems to thrive more when others take some of that load off. He has Al to do this to some degree now, and he gives a few leads (not an hour’s worth) to backing band members. But when it’s other actual BB’s taking that load off his shoulders, that’s when it really works.

Al on his own can’t seem to muster whatever it is he needs to in order to do something substantial on his own. He owns his own freaking studio, but in a recent interview says he’s not the type of guy who spends a lot of time in the studio. Wtf? Give your tapes to some other guy and let them compile it and put another album out. Other than the one unique gig earlier this year in New York, he can’t seem to get any live tours or even individual shows together outside of booking fairs and festivals with his “Endless Summer Band” or the “Surf City All Stars.” That even those bands, usually playing short hits-filled sets, are hard to track down and see is even sadder.

We should definitely be grateful that these guys are still alive and kicking and, in some cases, offering fans some enjoyable new things. But the C50 tour isn’t obscuring any of this. C50 brought a lot of things into deep focus. The tragic irony is that the deep focus offered the band two very different, divergent paths. The path of staying together would have reaped SO much more enjoyment for fans. The thing is, especially with these guys, things go in cycles. I think, if time weren’t an issue, they would almost surely at SOME point get over their bull***t enough (again) to do another reunion project. But thus far, David Marks is the only guy willing to actually say in an interview that one or more of these guys might croak before that can happen.

If they had all retired and didn’t profess any desire to keep doing music, then this wouldn’t be an issue. But into their 70’s, they seem to want to continue making music in some form or another, and Beach Boys music at that. They all prop each other up and make each other look better when they do things together.

I realize this is probably more about personal philosophy than anything to do with the Beach Boys. Some folks get their finger chopped off and just lament it and complain. Some immediately point out how much worse it could have been. I kind of do both. Ouch, that hurts, and getting my finger chopped off sucks. Okay, take a step back, and now I realize that there are indeed so many things to be grateful for. It could have been MUCH worse. But as much of a lazy ass as I am, even I can’t *always* get by on “things could be worse.”
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« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2014, 10:37:48 AM »

"Can't get by on things could be worse".  We'll said and applicable to so many things, at times.
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« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2014, 12:17:23 PM »

We don’t know how much of Al’s studio work (if any) will be on Brian’s new album, and by Al’s own admission he’s very much just a sideman at the live shows and doesn’t have any input into the setlists.

Wasn't it established a few days ago that during a recent interview with Al that he stated the Brian/Al concert setlist would represent various eras of Beach Boys music? But as we saw from the night before last, that wasn't the case at all. Just a real easy greatest hits gig for all of those involved.
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« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2014, 01:04:08 PM »

We don’t know how much of Al’s studio work (if any) will be on Brian’s new album, and by Al’s own admission he’s very much just a sideman at the live shows and doesn’t have any input into the setlists.

Wasn't it established a few days ago that during a recent interview with Al that he stated the Brian/Al concert setlist would represent various eras of Beach Boys music? But as we saw from the night before last, that wasn't the case at all. Just a real easy greatest hits gig for all of those involved.

Yeah, Al mentioned that as well. Besides probably not even being super familiar with what year which song comes from, I think he's just guessing what Brian's band will pick. It was an interview just a few days ago where he specifically said he isn't consulted on the set list and just shows up in support of Brian.

I would imagine at best that if he suggested one specific song, they might add it. On top of that, they're only doing these one-off gigs where it's harder to vary the set list. If or when they do a "full tour", I would imagine we'll get a more diversified set list.
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« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2014, 02:07:45 PM »

The path of staying together would have reaped SO much more enjoyment for fans.

... even I can’t *always* get by on “things could be worse.”

I do hear your point, HeyJude.  For me, it's not so much "it could be worse," but I do have a feeling of gratitude that we have already received more than I ever expected.

I agree C50 was a magical time...a new Beach Boys album and a tour with surviving members, glorious harmonies...all better than could have been expected.  And for that I am grateful.  Few of us expected such an impressive "reunion" album and tour.  I do also recall that "Summer's Gone" was initially intended to be the last musical word on the Beach Boys' illustrious recording career, and the tour was supposed to be "one last time."  But Brian later changed his mind, nasty comments were made in the press....and here we are, still talking about it 2 years later.

To me, the amazing thing is that it happened at all, considering all that had transpired among these guys in the past, and that it was as good as it was.    How long could it realistically have stayed together, given these individuals -- their varying viewpoints about what "real" Beach Boys compositions should be, what touring should look like, agreement on the setlist and weighting of the Beach Boys' catalog and legacy, and of course their different personalities and often contentious history?   And yes, also given the people around them, the ones they themselves have chosen for their specific personal and professional roles.

Is the whole greater than the sum of the parts?  In 2012, it seemed so.  But it was not without tension, and it's hard for me to see how that could have been sustained very long, or often.  If it did stay together, how long could the quality have been maintained?  Is it a waste that we have two or more outfits doing BB greatest hits shows rather than one killer group?  Possibly.  But my hope is that Brian's shows will soon feature new Brian Wilson material.

I confess my preference is to hear new Brian Wilson music.  While I love their vocal blend, if I have to choose between a "reunited" Beach Boys touring with no new material/new material with heavy Mike Love input (as he would likely insist), or Brian Wilson creating new music that he wants to create, I'll choose the latter.  When these guys hang it up, the concerts will be only memories while the recordings will be permanent.  I'm grateful for what we have, but I selfishly want to hear as much new music as Brian wants to give us.

I totally understand most fans prefer to see them together, and I especially sympathize with those who didn't get to experience C50 in all its glory.  But wanting them to stay together almost seems like requiring them to be different people.  
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 10:12:31 PM by Les P » Logged
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« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2014, 04:13:28 PM »

I’m glad some fans can keep telling themselves that. I really wish I could. I take a very measured approach of course. It’s awesome these guys are still alive and still doing stuff. It could be worse, no question.

Brian still being active is great. That he lets Al tag along is cool. Though it’s a bummer that two years into their post-C50 work together, Al isn’t really featuring heavily in Brian’s projects. We don’t know how much of Al’s studio work (if any) will be on Brian’s new album, and by Al’s own admission he’s very much just a sideman at the live shows and doesn’t have any input into the setlists.

Mike has essentially over the years finally luckily stumbled into kind of a “mini” version of Brian’s backing band, in that he finally in the last 6-7 years has been lucky enough to get an uber-nerd Beach Boys guy (Totten) to spearhead getting his band sounding good, an energetic drummer, and recently landed one of Brian’s own band members.

But all these are lesser articles, as much as we try to talk ourselves into how “awesome” thing still are.

Mike’s show features seemingly an hour or more of non-Beach Boys singing leads.

That Brian is still heading live shows is impressive in and of itself, but he seems to thrive more when others take some of that load off. He has Al to do this to some degree now, and he gives a few leads (not an hour’s worth) to backing band members. But when it’s other actual BB’s taking that load off his shoulders, that’s when it really works.

Al on his own can’t seem to muster whatever it is he needs to in order to do something substantial on his own. He owns his own freaking studio, but in a recent interview says he’s not the type of guy who spends a lot of time in the studio. Wtf? Give your tapes to some other guy and let them compile it and put another album out. Other than the one unique gig earlier this year in New York, he can’t seem to get any live tours or even individual shows together outside of booking fairs and festivals with his “Endless Summer Band” or the “Surf City All Stars.” That even those bands, usually playing short hits-filled sets, are hard to track down and see is even sadder.

We should definitely be grateful that these guys are still alive and kicking and, in some cases, offering fans some enjoyable new things. But the C50 tour isn’t obscuring any of this. C50 brought a lot of things into deep focus. The tragic irony is that the deep focus offered the band two very different, divergent paths. The path of staying together would have reaped SO much more enjoyment for fans. The thing is, especially with these guys, things go in cycles. I think, if time weren’t an issue, they would almost surely at SOME point get over their bull***t enough (again) to do another reunion project. But thus far, David Marks is the only guy willing to actually say in an interview that one or more of these guys might croak before that can happen.

If they had all retired and didn’t profess any desire to keep doing music, then this wouldn’t be an issue. But into their 70’s, they seem to want to continue making music in some form or another, and Beach Boys music at that. They all prop each other up and make each other look better when they do things together.

I realize this is probably more about personal philosophy than anything to do with the Beach Boys. Some folks get their finger chopped off and just lament it and complain. Some immediately point out how much worse it could have been. I kind of do both. Ouch, that hurts, and getting my finger chopped off sucks. Okay, take a step back, and now I realize that there are indeed so many things to be grateful for. It could have been MUCH worse. But as much of a lazy ass as I am, even I can’t *always* get by on “things could be worse.”


Sorry but I have to query the, `I’m glad some fans can keep telling themselves that` comment. Keep telling themselves what? The truth.  Wink

The current situation of the band members should be judged on what it is rather than what it`s not. Normality since 1998 has been for these guys to be touring separately. The C50 tour was the anomaly and I haven`t seen any of the members say that they thnk it could have become a yearly thing.

The situation at the moment is reminiscent of a couple going on a dream holiday to the Seychelles for a fortnight but then complaining for the next 50 weeks that their everyday life doesn`t measure up to it. Makes you wonder if they would have been happier if they hadn`t had that great experience in the first place...  Wink
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« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2014, 05:29:32 PM »

The thing this fan kept telling himself, when he got into this stuff around 1999-2000, was that where we were at around then was likely to be the status quo from there on out.  Mike and Bruce driving a rickety jukebox round the country.  Al on the outs with everybody, with a sharp veteran group which only gets booked for a couple of shows a year.  Brian backed by a crackerjack band, but in fragile voice and looking like a deer in headlights on stage.  David who?  No new material from anyone on the horizon, Brian's last album an adult-contemporary disappointment.  Smile locked in the vaults, likely never to emerge.

Compared to that... with Smile and TSS and Made in California and TLOS and Postcard and Radio on my shelf, with a rejuvenated Mike&Bruce band, David playing with both groups, Brian way more comfortable and Al regularly sitting in, with a really surprising new album and biopic to look forward to, and everything from the C50 tour to where-did-that-come-from moments like Brian, Al, Dave, and Blondie rocking out with Jeff Beck...  where's the bit where my finger got chopped off, again?  Musta missed it...

Cheers,
Jon Blum
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« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2014, 11:04:48 PM »

The situation at the moment is reminiscent of a couple going on a dream holiday to the Seychelles for a fortnight but then complaining for the next 50 weeks that their everyday life doesn`t measure up to it. Makes you wonder if they would have been happier if they hadn`t had that great experience in the first place...  Wink

More like having a terrific meal in a restaurant only to return to find it's closed.

Heh, or returning to the Seychelles to find they've been dynamited for road stone.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 11:06:28 PM by John Manning » Logged

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« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2014, 02:23:45 AM »

If they pay any attention to this board I hope they see this thread.   all of them and their wives and managers.  I f this bunch is passing on this conjunction of shows, they are LOSING their primary hard core fans and supporters.  Absolutely no reason why Brian, Al and David can't join in on the Beach Boys show for a predetermined number of dates per tour.  Sure, BW doesn't want to tour much, just do it when he does do it with THE BEACH BOYS!  WTF would be wrong with that???

Well, this is what I was saying right after C50, when all of the "Well, Brian doesn't tour as much as Mike does, etc, etc…" excuses were being bandied about.

There is a way for everyone to get what they want. Reserve the Beach Boys name for the full group, including Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce and David. Run this group like C50 and book the bigger venues that were offered, but do fewer shows a year. License out the "Beach Boys Touring Band" as a smaller outfit that Mike and Bruce can take to the State Fairs and do the fun in the sun shows.  Make sure the booking information indicates that there are two distinct configurations of the same band, hire a manager to handle scheduling and contracts for both groups. It's bound to be less confusing than what we have now,  everyone gets to be Beach Boys their way, and instead of all of this bickering, they can finish with dignity and style.

Sadly, I don't think dignity and style are a priority for at least some band members.
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« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2014, 03:20:27 AM »

Mike’s show features seemingly an hour or more of non-Beach Boys singing leads.

By my rough reckoning, that's two-thirds of a standard GH show, or looked at another way, some 12 to 18 songs. Care to list said titles, with vocalists ?
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« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2014, 03:45:07 AM »

The thing this fan kept telling himself, when he got into this stuff around 1999-2000, was that where we were at around then was likely to be the status quo from there on out.  Mike and Bruce driving a rickety jukebox round the country.  Al on the outs with everybody, with a sharp veteran group which only gets booked for a couple of shows a year.  Brian backed by a crackerjack band, but in fragile voice and looking like a deer in headlights on stage.  David who?  No new material from anyone on the horizon, Brian's last album an adult-contemporary disappointment.  Smile locked in the vaults, likely never to emerge.

Compared to that... with Smile and TSS and Made in California and TLOS and Postcard and Radio on my shelf, with a rejuvenated Mike&Bruce band, David playing with both groups, Brian way more comfortable and Al regularly sitting in, with a really surprising new album and biopic to look forward to, and everything from the C50 tour to where-did-that-come-from moments like Brian, Al, Dave, and Blondie rocking out with Jeff Beck...  where's the bit where my finger got chopped off, again?  Musta missed it...

+1.

I'm not saying that some of the complaints about the fallout from the C50 tour, among other issues, aren't valid, but I do think that it's important not to let these obscure the fact that all of the surviving Beach Boys have given us a lot more the last 10 years than most of us would have conceived possible.
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« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2014, 04:15:34 AM »

I guess it's entirely possible they could all be playing the same song at the exact same moment which to me seems...weird.

I remember thinking the same thing back in '99, when the three touring configurations (Mike-Bruce-Dave, Brian, Al's F&F) were all playing simultaneous gigs (not in the same state, though). I envisioned all three singing "Wouldn't it be nice, if we were older" at the exact same time. I envisioned it as another episode of their ongoing soap opera, with the scene cutting from one to another to another and back, over and over through the whole song.
Wow...to think this fractured situation has been the norm in all the years since (with one nearly year-long exception) is ALSO weird!
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« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2014, 06:09:53 AM »

I could talk for days about what a missed opportunity the reunion was. And there was one way to keep it going without any of the issues that dragged it down: VEGAS.

A Vegas residency would've been massive. Not long runs, maybe four or five three-week blocks and summers off to do major North American shows, while hitting places they've never been -- Russia, China, etc. Had a permanent manager been in place, that kind of deal could've lined the pockets and dictated the terms of how it proceeded. A permanent manager would've also realized that playing two nights at Madison Square Garden -- and all that means and the press it would generate -- would do more for the brand than five area shows for as many people in different venues. The bottom line is, due to security, costs, fees, no one makes money playing the Garden. Bands often tag extra shows onto their itinerary to pay for MSG. A manager looking into the long run would've seen that and had them do it. Although there's nothing wrong with sheds, venues like MSG, Wembley, and RAH take it to the next level.

As far as the "set date schtick" -- ANYONE who works in the business knows that those October M&B dates could've been bought off in a nano-second either financially or with a new deal with the full act. Whatever anyone says about Mike Love -- no promoter has any problem with him. His revue shows up and makes money all around. Always has. Mike Love's team calling a promoter and saying, "So we need to make a change. . . " is met with "What do you need for us to make this work?"

That the reunion ended so early and so messily before the REAL MONEY was earned has made The Beach Boys the laughing stock of many of the players I know in the concert industry. As one person told me at the time: "These guys are f***king 80 and they allow bullshit to get between them and real money? They've learned NOTHING."

In five months The Beach Boys went from being Frankie Valli to being The Rolling Stones and -- due to bullsh it -- back to Frankie Valli again.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 06:11:50 AM by Howie Edelson » Logged
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« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2014, 07:04:35 AM »

I could talk for days about what a missed opportunity the reunion was. And there was one way to keep it going without any of the issues that dragged it down: VEGAS.

A Vegas residency would've been massive. Not long runs, maybe four or five three-week blocks and summers off to do major North American shows, while hitting places they've never been -- Russia, China, etc. Had a permanent manager been in place, that kind of deal could've lined the pockets and dictated the terms of how it proceeded. A permanent manager would've also realized that playing two nights at Madison Square Garden -- and all that means and the press it would generate -- would do more for the brand than five area shows for as many people in different venues. The bottom line is, due to security, costs, fees, no one makes money playing the Garden. Bands often tag extra shows onto their itinerary to pay for MSG. A manager looking into the long run would've seen that and had them do it. Although there's nothing wrong with sheds, venues like MSG, Wembley, and RAH take it to the next level.

As far as the "set date schtick" -- ANYONE who works in the business knows that those October M&B dates could've been bought off in a nano-second either financially or with a new deal with the full act. Whatever anyone says about Mike Love -- no promoter has any problem with him. His revue shows up and makes money all around. Always has. Mike Love's team calling a promoter and saying, "So we need to make a change. . . " is met with "What do you need for us to make this work?"

That the reunion ended so early and so messily before the REAL MONEY was earned has made The Beach Boys the laughing stock of many of the players I know in the concert industry. As one person told me at the time: "These guys are f***king 80 and they allow bullshit to get between them and real money? They've learned NOTHING."

In five months The Beach Boys went from being Frankie Valli to being The Rolling Stones and -- due to bullsh it -- back to Frankie Valli again.

I`m not sure we can say it ended that early can we. Messily certainly but not early exactly.

The idea of them doing Vegas is interesting but I don`t really see how it solves all, `of the issues that dragged it down`.
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« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2014, 07:18:05 AM »

I could talk for days about what a missed opportunity the reunion was. And there was one way to keep it going without any of the issues that dragged it down: VEGAS.

A Vegas residency would've been massive. Not long runs, maybe four or five three-week blocks and summers off to do major North American shows, while hitting places they've never been -- Russia, China, etc. Had a permanent manager been in place, that kind of deal could've lined the pockets and dictated the terms of how it proceeded. A permanent manager would've also realized that playing two nights at Madison Square Garden -- and all that means and the press it would generate -- would do more for the brand than five area shows for as many people in different venues. The bottom line is, due to security, costs, fees, no one makes money playing the Garden. Bands often tag extra shows onto their itinerary to pay for MSG. A manager looking into the long run would've seen that and had them do it. Although there's nothing wrong with sheds, venues like MSG, Wembley, and RAH take it to the next level.

As far as the "set date schtick" -- ANYONE who works in the business knows that those October M&B dates could've been bought off in a nano-second either financially or with a new deal with the full act. Whatever anyone says about Mike Love -- no promoter has any problem with him. His revue shows up and makes money all around. Always has. Mike Love's team calling a promoter and saying, "So we need to make a change. . . " is met with "What do you need for us to make this work?"

That the reunion ended so early and so messily before the REAL MONEY was earned has made The Beach Boys the laughing stock of many of the players I know in the concert industry. As one person told me at the time: "These guys are f***king 80 and they allow bullshit to get between them and real money? They've learned NOTHING."

In five months The Beach Boys went from being Frankie Valli to being The Rolling Stones and -- due to bullsh it -- back to Frankie Valli again.
Howie, you seem to have all the answers here, so if what you say is true, then what would motivate Mike to not keep this going beyond 2012? Is Mike trading making major $ to keep control? Is making less $ worth it not to have to deal with Al & Brian and their management? We know these guys love money, so to give all of that up, there must be some major, heavy-duty issues going on. I mean, in the real world a lot of us put up with less than ideal circumstances in order to make a decent living. We make that decision to put up with the extra bullshit in order to make the big dollars.
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2014, 07:41:58 AM »

April to September is early. One North American leg with no return visits to secondary markets is early. For a massively promoted reunion tour with a Top Three LP that is ALL early. Las Vegas would be a lot of money, the terms would be strictly dictated, and Mike Love wouldn't have to deal with Brian's management as an ongoing force. Once the casinos are involved it changes from being on tour to "'working Vegas." It's a very tight well-oiled and lucrative machine that has zero room to fall prey to the things that made C50 fall apart (e.g. the irreconcilable differences between Mike & Jacqui Love and Melinda Wilson.)

Additionally. . .


To specifically answer your question drbeachboy -- I think that after 50 years, no amount of money was worth it for Mike to not be in control of his "destiny."
I think that the truth of the matter is that Mike Love does not want anyone to dictate how he goes about doing his job. I also believe that "Brian" -- be it his problems of yore, or his team -- has always been, and always will be, a major issue with Mike Love. Period.

Once Brian is involved it's a whole other game and a whole other force involved. Would an LP of 12 Wilson/Love (and others) songs helped the situation -- ABSOLUTELY.
I'm not alone in thinking that Mike could've been a far bigger presence on the TWGMTR LP. I'm of the mind that had he been given access to Brian to do what HE constituted as their reunion (two guys and a piano and a bag full of songs) things would've been much different -- I think we'd be happier as fans, too. But the bottom line is that this thing came together so quickly (with bumps in the road threatening to capsize it along the way) that the train kept moving to get from LP to opening night. Joe Thomas has his critics, but whatever you think of the guy -- he got it done and on the road.

I have to say, in dealing with major artists and big time publicists for said acts, the PR for the 50th could not have been better. It was TOP NOTCH. The coverage, the WAY they were covered -- it was brilliant. I would've loved to have seen how THAT aspect evolved as a true "reunion" went forward.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 08:08:30 AM by Howie Edelson » Logged
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« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2014, 08:16:55 AM »

April to September is early. One North American leg with no return visits to secondary markets is early. For a massively promoted reunion tour with a Top Three LP that is ALL early. Las Vegas would be a lot of money, the terms would be strictly dictated, and Mike Love wouldn't have to deal with Brian's management as an ongoing force. Once the casinos are involved it changes from being on tour to "'working Vegas." It's a very tight well-oiled and lucrative machine that has zero room to fall prey to the things that made C50 fall apart (e.g. the irreconcilable differences between Mike & Jacqui Love and Melinda Wilson.)

Additionally. . .


To specifically answer your question drbeachboy -- I think that after 50 years, no amount of money was worth it for Mike to not be in control of his "destiny."
I think that the truth of the matter is that Mike Love does not want anyone to dictate how he goes about doing his job. I also believe that "Brian" -- be it his problems of yore, or his team -- has always been, and always will be, a major issue with Mike Love. Period.

Once Brian is involved it's a whole other game and a whole other force involved. Would an LP of 12 Wilson/Love (and others) songs helped the situation -- ABSOLUTELY.
I'm not alone in thinking that Mike could've been a far bigger presence on the TWGMTR LP. I'm of the mind that had he been given access to Brian to do what HE constituted as their reunion (two guys and a piano and a bag full of songs) things would've been much different -- I think we'd be happier as fans, too. But the bottom line is that this thing came together so quickly (with bumps in the road threatening to capsize it along the way) that the train kept moving to get from LP to opening night. Joe Thomas has his critics, but whatever you think of the guy -- he got it done and on the road.

I have to say, in dealing with major artists and big time publicists for said acts, the PR for the 50th could not have been better. It was TOP NOTCH. The coverage, the WAY they were covered -- it was brilliant. I would've loved to have seen how THAT aspect evolved as a true "reunion" went forward.


Just to clarify Howie...

Are you saying that there were concrete offers on the table for the things that style of touring that you are advocating? And have any band members indicated to you that this was a possibility and that they (some of them at least) would have wanted to follow this path?
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« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2014, 08:32:12 AM »

April to September is early. One North American leg with no return visits to secondary markets is early. For a massively promoted reunion tour with a Top Three LP that is ALL early. Las Vegas would be a lot of money, the terms would be strictly dictated, and Mike Love wouldn't have to deal with Brian's management as an ongoing force. Once the casinos are involved it changes from being on tour to "'working Vegas." It's a very tight well-oiled and lucrative machine that has zero room to fall prey to the things that made C50 fall apart (e.g. the irreconcilable differences between Mike & Jacqui Love and Melinda Wilson.)

Additionally. . .


To specifically answer your question drbeachboy -- I think that after 50 years, no amount of money was worth it for Mike to not be in control of his "destiny."
I think that the truth of the matter is that Mike Love does not want anyone to dictate how he goes about doing his job. I also believe that "Brian" -- be it his problems of yore, or his team -- has always been, and always will be, a major issue with Mike Love. Period.

Once Brian is involved it's a whole other game and a whole other force involved. Would an LP of 12 Wilson/Love (and others) songs helped the situation -- ABSOLUTELY.
I'm not alone in thinking that Mike could've been a far bigger presence on the TWGMTR LP. I'm of the mind that had he been given access to Brian to do what HE constituted as their reunion (two guys and a piano and a bag full of songs) things would've been much different -- I think we'd be happier as fans, too. But the bottom line is that this thing came together so quickly (with bumps in the road threatening to capsize it along the way) that the train kept moving to get from LP to opening night. Joe Thomas has his critics, but whatever you think of the guy -- he got it done and on the road.

I have to say, in dealing with major artists and big time publicists for said acts, the PR for the 50th could not have been better. It was TOP NOTCH. The coverage, the WAY they were covered -- it was brilliant. I would've loved to have seen how THAT aspect evolved as a true "reunion" went forward.


Just to clarify Howie...

Are you saying that there were concrete offers on the table for the things that style of touring that you are advocating? And have any band members indicated to you that this was a possibility and that they (some of them at least) would have wanted to follow this path?

But isn't the main point that those sort of things *weren't* being pursued because of a lack of management? I think the band members mentioned a few other big offers for later in the year, mainly in Brian's LA Times letter. But I don't think there is a suggestion that there was an offer on the table for a Vegas residency (and if there was, then that obviously makes them look even more like idiots). I think the idea is that their lack of ability to either be more unified or at least pursue management that will keep them more unified from a business perspective has dictated they don't have management that will pursue offers for things like a Vegas run, and don't have the type of networked industry management that would be getting offers.

If the word in the industry is that the BB's don't have their s**t together, that probably doesn't help either. And Howie is right, as much as people want to play that populist card and all of that and talk about how the audience at the Cleveland Rib Cook Off is what's *truly* important, for whatever an "industry" reputation is worth, the BB's have been seen as a second tier act for years (albeit a solid, known commodity that still brings money in), then got a HUGE boost in perceived and real reputation for C50, and then shot it all to fudge when they very publicly looked like industry newbies that didn't have their s**t together.

The group needs not only a good manager who knows what they're doing and can keep everybody happy. They need someone from the OUTSIDE, someone INDEPENDENT. One of the problems has long been that when they do get someone who is seemingly a manager type, that manager is brought in by a particular person, and/or has either a perceived or true bias towards specific members, if not their own personal motives. That's the difference between, say Allen Klein and Neil Aspinall.

There is surely an Aspinall/Geurcio type out there that could do these things for the band. As Howie has alluded to, even if you strip away all the morals and ethics and warm fuzzies and just look at the cold hard cash, while it may be true Mike could have made less on C50 than he did during a year of his own touring, they surely could have continued making even MORE money had they kept the reunion going. They could have been making more money for doing less work. Still playing to millions, raking in the cash, and having even more time to do their own solo albums, or group albums, or side projects, or even more corporate gigs on the side, or whatever.
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« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2014, 08:33:02 AM »

I'm not saying that.
No one has told me that an offer was made.

I DO KNOW that there were people in the touring industry seriously watching the reunion to see if it had legs, and expressed to me that if it DID, the band could've struck up a major deal with one of the majors in Vegas -- is any of that definite, no. But the person who told me has years of experience with acts in the major casinos. Ultimately, people beyond us were waiting and watching to see if this thing would implode (would someone back out due to illness or just not be able to keep it together) -- we know how that played out.

But Vegas has always been an option for them, and I believe that it was Carl who was against it -- might be remembering that wrong, though.
I wouldn't be surprised that IF this thing ever happens again it takes place in that environment.
(Which means everyone can kiss their dreams of a live BB PET SOUNDS show goodbye immediately.)
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« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2014, 08:45:18 AM »

I'm not saying that.
No one has told me that an offer was made.

I DO KNOW that there were people in the touring industry seriously watching the reunion to see if it had legs, and expressed to me that if it DID, the band could've struck up a major deal with one of the majors in Vegas -- is any of that definite, no. But the person who told me has years of experience with acts in the major casinos. Ultimately, people beyond us were waiting and watching to see if this thing would implode (would someone back out due to illness or just not be able to keep it together) -- we know how that played out.

But Vegas has always been an option for them, and I believe that it was Carl who was against it -- might be remembering that wrong, though.
I wouldn't be surprised that IF this thing ever happens again it takes place in that environment.
(Which means everyone can kiss their dreams of a live BB PET SOUNDS show goodbye immediately.)

I do recall that there were some articles/interviews mentioning that the list of reasons for Carl's 1981 departure included casino gigs (probably not one of the main reasons). I also recall that it was mentioned that one of his conditions for coming back in 1982 was that no more casino gigs would be booked beyond what was already scheduled when he rejoined.

I'd have to consult the "In Concert" book to be sure, but I'm pretty sure within a few years they were doing casino gigs again.

But it's also worth noting that doing an extended residency in Las Vegas in 2014 is in many ways a far different experience (for both performer and audience) compared to doing a week at Ceasar's Palace in 1980. It's "perceived" as far less tacky these days. The main thing that is probably somewhat similar is that it often (but not always) calls for a shorter setlist. But when you're a Celine Dion-type fixed residency in Las Vegas, I think there's more leeway to do whatever show you want to do.
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