Some questions about TWGMTR ...

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Next experiment. We know that "Isn't It Time" was a last-minute addition to the album, recorded with all the guys together. Now, listen to that. Notice how the harmonies are ragged. Notice how you can hear several different voices throughout, and on the harmony parts. That strikes me as being a genuine group recording. And it sounds radically different from anything else on the record.

Ragged as the harmonies might have been (I don't hear it so much) "Isn't It Time" was the best thing about the TWGMTR album for me and Mike's doo-wops really made that a GREAT song.  I wished they'd done a whole album with that style.

That song is the classic BB's vocal sound!

Yeah, Isn't It Time is a BB classic, just as much as the "life-suite" is. It should've been the lead single, as much as I love the title track, it's pretty dull and non-commercial.

I thought the original (album) version of the song was fantastic. I wouldn't have wanted a whole album like that and was glad for some of the other material as well, but it was really, really strong. (Single version didn't suit my taste as much. I thought it almost ruined it, to be honest.)

I'd go one further...the single version DID ruin it for me, and was worse than anything on SIP.

[CenturyDeprived]

My query on the TWGMTR album is different again. Listening closely to the guys singing, there seem to be several instances of missing consonants and vowels, as if much (clumsy, digital) cutting and slicing of different takes had to be done to achieve the final product. Any one else hear this?

Agreed. I hear it particularly between Mike's individual lines "Isn't it time we dance the night away / how about doing it just like yesterday" and in the first few lines of Al's lines in "From There to Back Again", such as between the words "Why don't you...". Maybe I'm hearing things, but some edits seemed to jump out awkwardly at me upon first and second listen. I totally understand the desire to comp together a bunch of takes to get the best one (especially since some of bandmembers may not want to do a ton of takes), but I concur that some of the editing is sloppy, unfortunately.

I suppose the same could be said for some of Brian's sloppy edits/mixes in the '60s, but somehow in the digital realm it's less excusable to me, since it should theoretically be easier to fix.

That said, I'm mighty grateful to have the album, and despite its flaws, there are lots of great moments.

I'm also in (probably) the minority in preferring the "Isn't it Time" (single version).

[Jim Rockford]

My query on the TWGMTR album is different again. Listening closely to the guys singing, there seem to be several instances of missing consonants and vowels, as if much (clumsy, digital) cutting and slicing of different takes had to be done to achieve the final product. Any one else hear this?

Mmm-hmm. Although at least some of it could simply be Brian singing less than crisply.

The vocals are some nipped and tucked on that album it can be almost impossible to imagine what they started with ...

I never minded it on something like "Imagination," where the wall-of-Brians was kind of the gimmick of the whole thing. But on TWGMTR, we certainly could have stood to hear some less-processed blend ...

Yeah. That's the problem with the album. I like it a lot, but they definitely used way too much auto tune on it. I can understand fixing a few spots, but they covered every vocal on the album with it. They used so much that it makes it harder to distinguish which person sang on certain songs.

[Sheriff John Stone]

This comment is not a criticism of Jeff Foskett; I like his voice and he did a fine job on TWGMTR. But, if I could change one thing vocally on the album, it would be to have Brian sing the falsetto lyrical parts. One example is the line on "Isn't It Time" that goes, "And as the sun goes down we raise our glass..." Another example is on "Shelter" where Jeff sings "I'll give you shelter from the storm, and a house to keep you warm...", and to a lesser extent Jeff's high voice is very prominent on the title track.

I know it's a little nitpicking, but it just isn't the same when there is a high, sensitive vocal and Brian isn't singing it - and you know he was sitting right there! I get kind of a let-down feeling, like "come on, Brian, go for it, that's we what we love to hear, when you go high". Could've he sang it as clear as Jeff? No. But I think I would've sacrificed a little clarity for the emotion that Brian carries in his high vocals. And, with a little technical help I thought Brian could've pulled those high parts off...

[the captain]

This comment is not a criticism of Jeff Foskett; I like his voice and he did a fine job on TWGMTR. But, if I could change one thing vocally on the album, it would be to have Brian sing the falsetto lyrical parts. One example is the line on "Isn't It Time" that goes, "And as the sun goes down we raise our glass..." Another example is on "Shelter" where Jeff sings "I'll give you shelter from the storm, and a house to keep you warm...", and to a lesser extent Jeff's high voice is very prominent on the title track.

I know it's a little nitpicking, but it just isn't the same when there is a high, sensitive vocal and Brian isn't singing it - and you know he was sitting right there! I get kind of a let-down feeling, like "come on, Brian, go for it, that's we what we love to hear, when you go high". Could've he sang it as clear as Jeff? No. But I think I would've sacrificed a little clarity for the emotion that Brian carries in his high vocals. And, with a little technical help I thought Brian could've pulled those high parts off...

I'd like to agree with you but I just can't. Honestly I don't think Brian could do a passable version of those parts (without absurd technological assistance). I know I'm a broken record on this, but the vocal deterioration that adds character to people whose music isn't tight-harmony based--Cohen, Dylan, Waits--doesn't work for Wilson. It can in the occasional situation, but generally speaking a creaking or croaking part doesn't add character to his music, it just detracts. I know people have strong opinions about parts from original members, or family members of original members, etc., and I'm not weighing in on that at the moment. But while I wish I could say yes, Brian should and could do it, I don't think that's true. His voice is still beautiful sometimes, but not in that register on any consistent basis.

[Bill30022]

Next experiment. We know that "Isn't It Time" was a last-minute addition to the album, recorded with all the guys together. Now, listen to that. Notice how the harmonies are ragged. Notice how you can hear several different voices throughout, and on the harmony parts. That strikes me as being a genuine group recording. And it sounds radically different from anything else on the record.

Ragged as the harmonies might have been (I don't hear it so much) "Isn't It Time" was the best thing about the TWGMTR album for me and Mike's doo-wops really made that a GREAT song.  I wished they'd done a whole album with that style.

That song is the classic BB's vocal sound!

Yeah, Isn't It Time is a BB classic, just as much as the "life-suite" is. It should've been the lead single, as much as I love the title track, it's pretty dull and non-commercial.

I thought the original (album) version of the song was fantastic. I wouldn't have wanted a whole album like that and was glad for some of the other material as well, but it was really, really strong. (Single version didn't suit my taste as much. I thought it almost ruined it, to be honest.)

I think the single should have been FTTBA/PCH.  Maybe not an obvious choice but these (and SG) are so superior to the rest of the album and its hits you on such an emotional level that it could have been a hit.

[HeyJude]

I think Brian (or even Al, reportedly) can squeak out some form of falsetto in the studio under the right circumstances.

But I don't think Brian could do those solo falsetto leads in the bits on "Isn't It Time" or "Shelter." They would have autotuned his attempt to death even more than the rest of the album had he tried.

My vague recollection is that Joe Thomas contended in an interview that the bits of "Shelter" that Mike sings in unison with the falsetto are Brian and Mike, not Jeff and Mike. I'm not 100% convinced of that, but I think Brian could eek out a falsetto like that. But not the solo lead bits that he wrote that Jeff sang.

[Wirestone]

Brian does sing falsetto on "Think About the Days" and sounds pretty good. I think he might be doing a bit of falsetto in TPLOBAS, too, although it's largely obscured by Jeff's parts.

I think part of SJS's point was that the songs would have to be brought down a bit to allow Brian to sing them in his current voice, even in falsetto, and I think I agree with that. It would sound fine if the pieces were pitched lower.

I truly didn't mind Foskett's voice  when the album came out, but over the last couple of years it's grated on me more. It doesn't make anything unlistenable to me, but (as stated earlier in the thread) his presence on two parts of most harmony stacks make it very hard to hear anyone else besides Brian. It was balanced better at the live shows.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Brian does sing falsetto on "Think About the Days" and sounds pretty good. I think he might be doing a bit of falsetto in TPLOBAS, too, although it's largely obscured by Jeff's parts.

I think part of SJS's point was that the songs would have to be brought down a bit to allow Brian to sing them in his current voice, even in falsetto, and I think I agree with that. It would sound fine if the pieces were pitched lower.

I truly didn't mind Foskett's voice  when the album came out, but over the last couple of years it's grated on me more. It doesn't make anything unlistenable to me, but (as stated earlier in the thread) his presence on two parts of most harmony stacks make it very hard to hear anyone else besides Brian. It was balanced better at the live shows.

Yes, and I was also basing my opinion on Brian's vocal work on his previous two efforts, the Gershwin and Disney albums. He turned in some impressive vocals on those albums, and I'll admit that I was looking forward to more of those on TWGMTR. While Brian's vocals on TWGMTR are certainly passable, again I was hoping he'd "go for it" a little more.

[bringahorseinhere?]

I also think if Brian wanted to, and was well enough, he sure could get those notes no worry....

does he want to?  probably not, we know he likes to handball parts out, even if he can do them better himself...

isn't that Brian?...... he's been shooting off parts to others since producing other artists since what? 1963?

Brian's falsetto is one of a kind..... even his later stuff is great.....  stuff like neil diamonds, 'delirious love', shows he still has it...

and on Gershwin's 'rhapsody' intro......

lets not forget eh......... the guys..... 72??

let's not expect 1966 Brian in 2014.

maybe someday we will get extensive 'boxsets' worth of Brian's demo's/works one day in the works showing the greatness of the guy still here...

RickB

[the captain]

There tends to be a certain "Brian is Superman" idea sometimes. "He could do it if he wanted to." While that may apply in terms of writing, arranging, or even nailing vocal parts in certain ranges, I'd strongly question whether he can hit notes he hasn't regularly hit in 40 years. Sorry, but he hasn't had the sweet tenor or CLEAR falsetto since the 15BO vocal change. I'd love to say otherwise, but can't. He has sung sweetly, emotively, sure! He has sung (a different) falsetto. But he can't hit those notes "no problem" and he never will.

As you said, he's 72 (or whatever he is). Real life and its* consequences impact even Brian Wilson.


*This post originally said "it's," which was a phone error. Fucking predictive text. I am an imperfect man, but I know the difference between its and it's. It's damn near the only thing I know.

[the captain]

There was some "Isn't It Time" discussion earlier, and while I don't mean to derail things, let's be honest, things are already somewhat derailed (and technically this is a question about TWGMTR, and thus fair game as literally perfectly befitting the subject of the thread). So, for those assorted people who pay more attention to such things than I do:

Is anyone else bothered by Mike's voice starting at 2:36 of the album version of "Isn't It Time," but especially as he sings "doin' it just like yesterday"? Is there a chorus effect, or just an off-kilter multitracked voice? I often hear this song in headphones while running, and that part literally makes me uneasy. I picture little atoms jumping around, bouncing.

Glad I could expose my weirdness and ignorance (again).

[Autotune]

This comment is not a criticism of Jeff Foskett; I like his voice and he did a fine job on TWGMTR. But, if I could change one thing vocally on the album, it would be to have Brian sing the falsetto lyrical parts. One example is the line on "Isn't It Time" that goes, "And as the sun goes down we raise our glass..." Another example is on "Shelter" where Jeff sings "I'll give you shelter from the storm, and a house to keep you warm...", and to a lesser extent Jeff's high voice is very prominent on the title track.

I know it's a little nitpicking, but it just isn't the same when there is a high, sensitive vocal and Brian isn't singing it - and you know he was sitting right there! I get kind of a let-down feeling, like "come on, Brian, go for it, that's we what we love to hear, when you go high". Could've he sang it as clear as Jeff? No. But I think I would've sacrificed a little clarity for the emotion that Brian carries in his high vocals. And, with a little technical help I thought Brian

I'd like to agree with you but I just can't. Honestly I don't think Brian could do a passable version of those parts (without absurd technological assistance).

He sounded great on The Like in In Love You. He'd sound just as good on the vocals SJS mentioned.

It goes beyond my understanding why Foskett is so prominent on Beaches in Mind. There's nothing special or worthwhile about his vocal there, and any of the main guys could have done a better job at it.

[the captain]

I just disagree. I don't think Brian could have done good versions. I don't see what his "The Like in I Love You" vocals have to do with it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Brian does sing falsetto on "Think About the Days" and sounds pretty good.

Ummm... I think that's Bruce. Sure I recall reading that somewhere.

[Wirestone]

Brian does sing falsetto on "Think About the Days" and sounds pretty good.

Ummm... I think that's Bruce. Sure I recall reading that somewhere.

Not all of it. A phrase at the end. Bruce may be singing some falsetto bits earlier in the tune ...

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Next experiment. We know that "Isn't It Time" was a last-minute addition to the album, recorded with all the guys together. Now, listen to that. Notice how the harmonies are ragged. Notice how you can hear several different voices throughout, and on the harmony parts. That strikes me as being a genuine group recording. And it sounds radically different from anything else on the record.

Ragged as the harmonies might have been (I don't hear it so much) "Isn't It Time" was the best thing about the TWGMTR album for me and Mike's doo-wops really made that a GREAT song.  I wished they'd done a whole album with that style.

That song is the classic BB's vocal sound!

Yeah, Isn't It Time is a BB classic, just as much as the "life-suite" is. It should've been the lead single, as much as I love the title track, it's pretty dull and non-commercial.

I thought the original (album) version of the song was fantastic. I wouldn't have wanted a whole album like that and was glad for some of the other material as well, but it was really, really strong. (Single version didn't suit my taste as much. I thought it almost ruined it, to be honest.)

I'd go one further...the single version DID ruin it for me, and was worse than anything on SIP.

Yep, they took what was by some considerable distance the best non-suite song on the album and completely and utterly ruined it. The single version of ITT is the equivalent of that version of ET where Steven Spielberg added in a load of computer generated ET's and replaced the armies guns with sticks or feather dusters or something.

[seltaeb1012002]

Brian does sing falsetto on "Think About the Days" and sounds pretty good.

Ummm... I think that's Bruce. Sure I recall reading that somewhere.

Check out 0:53. He's mixed low, but I'm pretty sure that's Brian on top of the stack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty5uhLDLFcg

Would've cool if there was more of this throughout the album. The only other place BW shoots into falsetto is on "Pacific Coast Highway", and he sounds great (although I tend to believe that particular vocal section dates back to '98. just has that Imagination sound)

It's a little annoying because he CAN still hit falsetto. You can hear it when he sings "God Only Knows" live. How high exactly? God only knows, but I'm sure he could've covered 99% of the falsetto stuff on TWGMTR. Even if he had just done the top of the harmony stacks, that would've been a more authentic BB's sound. For the falsetto leads, they could've had Jeff sing in unison with Brian if it sounded that weak. I'm sure BW just didn't feel like doing it and I doubt anyone was there to push the issue. Oh well.

Is anyone else bothered by Mike's voice starting at 2:36 of the album version of "Isn't It Time," but especially as he sings "doin' it just like yesterday"? Is there a chorus effect, or just an off-kilter multitracked voice? I often hear this song in headphones while running, and that part literally makes me uneasy. I picture little atoms jumping around, bouncing.

Haha. Yeah, pretty sure that's just Mike all over the place with his timing. A little less sloppiness on his vocals overall would've been nice. But I suppose it's true to life.


edit:

Slightly self-indulgent sidenote re: Brian not singing falsetto now:

A few years ago I had the privilege of producing a Ronnie Spector session. We cut a modernized version of Be My Baby (unreleased.. think "All About That Bass" stylistically). I made the track in the original key and referenced the vocals for her. She loved it, we get to the studio.. she listens to it on the monitors and says "the key's too high". I said something like "well, that's the original key". She takes off her sunglasses, looks at me and says (again I'm paraphrasing) "I can't hit the notes like I used to. We'll do it in a lower key." So, being that the track was produced already and I couldn't quickly recut the guitars, we pitch-shifted the 2 track on the spot for her to record to.

Anyway, when she said she didn't wanna go for the high notes (so to speak), I wasn't gonna sit there and argue with a legend. Granted Brian's more of a workhorse in the studio, I'd imagine it could be a similar situation for him. Why bother straining if Jeff already sang the parts to his satisfaction. 

Another sidenote, I told her I loved the Beach Boys, and she told me how much she loved Brian and went into the story about him writing "Don't Worry Baby" for her, but Phil not allowing them to cut it. Great times!

[Micha]

Although I love the track "Strange World", but every time I hear it I'm annoyed that Brian does both the lead vocal AND the overlapping "doodoodoo"s. It's not a focking solo record, Brian!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

What trips me out about Brian these days (and really for the past 15 years plus) is that he could sing in concert and sound a bit shaky, but clips of him playing the piano and singing (to demonstrate a song, not for performance) and sound good as hell. Most likely because he's more relaxed. Frame of mind is everything. Likely a reason too why he sounded better during the C50 shows from June on than he did at any of his solo shows before or since, even nailing falsettos the sadly few times he tried.

[Loaf]

I'd rather have the BBs sing the lyrics in a lower key, or slightly off key, rather than the robotic patchwork of autotune and Jeff that we ended up with.

I don't care if a word or a whole line is off, i don't care if the falsetto is shaky. These are 70 year old human beings, not Beyonce. i don't expect a flawless performance, i expect the Beach Boys to SING the majority of their own songs.

TWGMTR is hard to listen to. It's jarring.

That said, i do like Isn't It Time. A funky, percussive pop song.

[Alan Smith]

I'd rather have the BBs sing the lyrics in a lower key, or slightly off key, rather than the robotic patchwork of autotune and Jeff that we ended up with.

I don't care if a word or a whole line is off, i don't care if the falsetto is shaky. These are 70 year old human beings, not Beyonce. i don't expect a flawless performance, i expect the Beach Boys to SING the majority of their own songs.

It's a missed opportunity they didn't take a production approach similar to Postcard from California in it's final (current?) form - perhaps there is some auto-v jiggery-pokery on PFC, but if so, can't say I've noticed.

[ToneBender631]

What trips me out about Brian these days (and really for the past 15 years plus) is that he could sing in concert and sound a bit shaky, but clips of him playing the piano and singing (to demonstrate a song, not for performance) and sound good as hell. Most likely because he's more relaxed. Frame of mind is everything. Likely a reason too why he sounded better during the C50 shows from June on than he did at any of his solo shows before or since, even nailing falsettos the sadly few times he tried.

It could all be down to hearing. When he's playing piano by himself with no band and no PA he probably has no pitch problem whatsoever. With the C50 shows, for the majority of the shows, he was far more physically removed from the band than he is for his solo shows, which meant his monitor mix would be much easier for him to hear than it would typically be.

[ToneBender631]

My query on the TWGMTR album is different again. Listening closely to the guys singing, there seem to be several instances of missing consonants and vowels, as if much (clumsy, digital) cutting and slicing of different takes had to be done to achieve the final product. Any one else hear this?

Comping takes doesn't really involve much in the way of "slicing" per say anymore, at least not in the manner most people envision.

For the past 5+ years now, most major DAWs (Pro Tools, Logic, etc.) have had comp lanes which basically allow you to see a stack of takes, each in separate lanes and comp them together in about 30 seconds. You can click and drag over different sections in each lane and the master lane will reflect each part that you've highlighted, playing in one seamless stream. To make these edits clean, the DAW will introduce very light cross fading at each "merge", to keep from having any pops if the edit isn't done at a zero cross point. Unless the engineer manually changes the X-Fade time or uses two totally unrelated takes, you shouldn't really run into any clipped notes. This editing method is used on vocals, drums, guitars, you name it. It's pretty fool proof, so anything you're hearing was most likely purposeful in delivery or a result of specific mix decisions.

[ToneBender631]

I'd rather have the BBs sing the lyrics in a lower key, or slightly off key, rather than the robotic patchwork of autotune and Jeff that we ended up with.

I don't care if a word or a whole line is off, i don't care if the falsetto is shaky. These are 70 year old human beings, not Beyonce. i don't expect a flawless performance, i expect the Beach Boys to SING the majority of their own songs.

It's a missed opportunity they didn't take a production approach similar to Postcard from California in it's final (current?) form - perhaps there is some auto-v jiggery-pokery on PFC, but if so, can't say I've noticed.

The production of Al's album is absolutely fantastic - with a very crisp sound to the engineering/mixing. He's using some seriously high quality gear but for the most part going for a very dry sound. The final production (as well as the ad-libbed vocal parts) give it a major "performance" vibe, which works quite well with the songs, arrangements, etc. Looking at TWGMTR, I can't think of any way that this could've been applied to Brian's arrangements, certainly not the second half, without strongly affecting the emotional impact.

Producing TWGMTR like APCFC would be like taking this:



and presenting it as:



My apologies that the perspective is different on the two.