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Author Topic: Brian in 1977  (Read 26639 times)
Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #100 on: September 22, 2014, 01:14:51 PM »

They could've promoted "Roller Skating Child" with footage of Mike doing his late '70s "marching foot stomp" dance alone in a room, with a picture of Mike in a turban on the cover of the single. In liner notes, the steps to the "Mike Love Stomp" dance would've been outlined.
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Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #101 on: September 22, 2014, 01:54:14 PM »

Also, on this same topic, I wonder what Brian would've picked as the singles from MIU and KTSA. "Wontcha Come Out Tonight?" and "Some of Your Love" always struck me as Brian's big attempts at hit singles - well, those two and "Goin' On". "Wontcha Come Out Tonight" sports one of Brian's last classic "tags". "Some of Your Love" has a ballad interlude (Carl's "kiss me, baby" part), a nicce touch Brian would rarely bother with by that point in his career, and there's that awesome transition back into the chorus for the finale. I always felt like when Brian complained later on that he couldn't always write a hit when the group needed it, he was referencing songs like that. He really tried...
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 01:56:54 PM by Mr. Cohen » Logged
Steve Latshaw
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« Reply #102 on: September 22, 2014, 02:12:00 PM »

<You know what else didn't stand a chance in hell in the late '70s on the radio? Everything else the Beach Boys tried. Their big hit, "R&R Music", had tons of Love You overtones.  "HTCN" was a mega-flop. MIU was considered a joke. Brian, at least, brought an edge with Love You and an indentifiable sound.>

R&RM got airplay because in sounded like Surfin' USA on the radio.  Period.  Yeah, there's synth on it... and the voices are rough... but those are the only connections to Love You.

it sounded like the Beach Boys of old.  It was a hit record (the single version). 

I was in radio at the time and nobody wanted to touch Love You.  During that time period, Peggy Sue made it in the top 60 (in my view, Matchpoint of Our Love would have done even better), Almost Summer made it into the top 30, Good Timin' hit 40, and despite all the naysayers, HCTN hit 44.  In Carbondale, Illinois (where I was), St. Louis, Chicago, all around the Midwest, all of those songs did even better in select markets.  And none of them sounded remotely like Love You.  They did, however, sound like The Beach Boys.

I've always been a fan of the artistic merit of Love You... I purchased it the day it was released and, as they say, loved it.  But it's unfinished, barely past the demo stage (imagine what a classic track Airplane would have been with some real production).  It is the product of a man in a hurry, trying to finish as quickly as he can with as little outside help as possible.  In spite of all that, and because of who wrote and produced it, it's still a classic Beach Boys album.  But they couldn't have possibly released a less commercial album in the Spring of 1977 than Love You.  And they knew it.  And Warner Brothers knew it.  And so did the rest of us.
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Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #103 on: September 22, 2014, 02:25:56 PM »

If you ask me, "Airplane" has a much elaborate arrangement than "Almost Summer". Besides the horn parts, that song is instrumentally about as simple as humanly possible. Just keyboards and basses playing standard eighth and quarter notes. It's carried by a great melody and a few bits of harmony.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #104 on: September 22, 2014, 02:41:36 PM »

<You know what else didn't stand a chance in hell in the late '70s on the radio? Everything else the Beach Boys tried. Their big hit, "R&R Music", had tons of Love You overtones.  "HTCN" was a mega-flop. MIU was considered a joke. Brian, at least, brought an edge with Love You and an indentifiable sound.>

R&RM got airplay because in sounded like Surfin' USA on the radio.  Period.  Yeah, there's synth on it... and the voices are rough... but those are the only connections to Love You.

it sounded like the Beach Boys of old.  It was a hit record (the single version). 

I was in radio at the time and nobody wanted to touch Love You.  During that time period, Peggy Sue made it in the top 60 (in my view, Matchpoint of Our Love would have done even better), Almost Summer made it into the top 30, Good Timin' hit 40, and despite all the naysayers, HCTN hit 44.  In Carbondale, Illinois (where I was), St. Louis, Chicago, all around the Midwest, all of those songs did even better in select markets.  And none of them sounded remotely like Love You.  They did, however, sound like The Beach Boys.

I've always been a fan of the artistic merit of Love You... I purchased it the day it was released and, as they say, loved it.  But it's unfinished, barely past the demo stage (imagine what a classic track Airplane would have been with some real production).  It is the product of a man in a hurry, trying to finish as quickly as he can with as little outside help as possible.  In spite of all that, and because of who wrote and produced it, it's still a classic Beach Boys album.  But they couldn't have possibly released a less commercial album in the Spring of 1977 than Love You.  And they knew it.  And Warner Brothers knew it.  And so did the rest of us.

You're right, Steve. As far as radio, the audience always seemed to want The Beach Boys to sound like, well, The Beach Boys. You can add "Come Go With Me" and "The Beach Boys Medley" which were also hits during that time period. We know it was frustrating for the group to release some tremendous songs/records that flopped, only to have weaker material become hits. But, it also explains why they kept going "back to the well" over and over. You (and I don't mean you, Steve) might not agree with that, but at least you have to understand or empathize with it/them.
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Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #105 on: September 22, 2014, 03:08:07 PM »

I think Mike made a fatal error in the late '70s thinking people wanted the BBs to still do "Be True To Your School"/"Pom Pom Play Girl"  high school level material. The lyrics to songs like "Some of Your Love" and "Almost Summer" are literally toxic. People wanted the BBs to rock, and they wanted them to do songs about dancing and love. What they didn't want, however, was men in their 30s singing about high school experiences.
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Steve Latshaw
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« Reply #106 on: September 22, 2014, 03:50:55 PM »


"I think Mike made a fatal error in the late '70s thinking people wanted the BBs to still do "Be True To Your School"/"Pom Pom Play Girl"  high school level material. The lyrics to songs like "Some of Your Love" and "Almost Summer" are literally toxic. People wanted the BBs to rock, and they wanted them to do songs about dancing and love. What they didn't want, however, was men in their 30s singing about high school experiences."

I beg to differ.  Having been in the audiences, they didn't give a damn about that stuff.  Otherwise, Marcella would have been a hit.  Nobody cared.   For more mature rock with Harmony - a logical extension of the early 70s sound, they had the Eagles.  Audiences at that time wanted Endless Summer Part 2.  They wanted it in the live shows - and wanted it on record.  Nostalgia.  That's why Rock & Roll Music and Almost Summer were hits.  At shows in 1976, 1977, 1978 there was a palpable drop in energy whenever the Beach Boys played anything new or different.  At one show I was at (November 1977), the college audience was ENRAGED when the Beach Boys began playing Country Pie, which was a decent rocker.  Ditto Roller Skating Child.  One audience next to me started bitching... "Why do they have to play that new sh*t?"  They wanted the oldies or new songs that sounded like oldies and spoke to High School life, partying, cars, girls and beach.
 


 
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« Reply #107 on: September 22, 2014, 09:34:12 PM »

It's pretty amazing that they didn't release "Some Of Your Love" as a single. Not because it's amazing or anything, just that it seems like a song they'd at least try as a single.
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« Reply #108 on: September 22, 2014, 10:48:35 PM »

It's pretty amazing that they didn't release "Some Of Your Love" as a single. Not because it's amazing or anything, just that it seems like a song they'd at least try as a single.

I kinda sorta agree with that line of thinking. It sounds like they really tried to make this song a "single" sounding type of song... but failed. I wonder if even they knew that themselves, or was this ever in consideration as a single? Odd to not put this out, and to release "Living with a Heartache" (?!) as a single.  

I want to like "Some Of Your Love", and I almost half do because I'm a BB freak, but to my ears it's probably the single most recycled-sounding song in all of the BB released catalog. Surfers may recycle now (at least in another 12 years, but how about the BB songsmiths themselves recycle now in 1980?) It's like, here's the riff from "Child of Winter"... well actually it's also the riff from the tag of "Wontcha Come Out Tonight?"... but we hope you don't notice, and casual listeners notice wouldn't that because those source material songs weren't hit songs. But wait... here's the part from "Be True to Your School"... and now here's the lyric (and title no less) from "Kiss Me Baby".  C'mon guys. C'mon.

The BB song referencing/recycling machine was in full swing already, and while I can take it in very small doses (Carl's "You Still Believe in Me" vocal at the end of Brian's Back is shockingly/jaw-droppingly excellent, and I don't mind Bruce's "God Only Knows" coda in "Oh Darlin"), but "Some of Your Love" goes to a level of recycling not seen in any given single BB-related track (with the exceptions of "Beach Boys Medley", obviously, and "Smart Girls"). Yowzers. Not cool.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 10:52:08 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
Steve Latshaw
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« Reply #109 on: September 23, 2014, 08:21:04 AM »

I had a brief conversation with Mike Love in 1980 about Some of Your Love.  August 10, 1980, Louisville, KY.  I'd gone to cover the show for the radio station I was working for; we were giving airplay to Peter Noone's new wave band The Tremblers and their excellent debut LP.  The Tremblers were opening for the Beach Boys; backstage well before the show we interviewed Peter, who was one of the nicest guys I'd met in the band.  He was excited that one of us had brought an original pressing of Pet Sounds (not me) and insisted on taking us upstairs and personally introducing us to Carl and Bruce, in the restaurant of the hotel.  The show was great; Dennis was there... they even pulled out Santa Ana Winds, one of my favorite tracks from KTSA.

After the show I ran into Mike in the hotel bar.  He was nursing a beer (!) and looking rather morose.  I introduced myself, complimented him on the show and the album.  I knew Goin' On and and Living With A Heartache had stiffed.  I don't know whether I was trying to cheer him up or scrambling for something to say but I remarked that I thought "Some of Your Love" would make a great single off the album.  He looked at me for a moment, said, "Thanks."  He paused for a moment, took a sip, then said, "the label thinks School Days should be the next single."

End of conversation.  What I didn't do was ask why the title song never went out as a single.  That was one track everyone liked at the station.  But by then, summer was almost over.
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Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #110 on: September 23, 2014, 08:36:22 AM »

Quote from: CenturyDeprived
I kinda sorta agree with that line of thinking. It sounds like they really tried to make this song a "single" sounding type of song... but failed. I wonder if even they knew that themselves, or was this ever in consideration as a single? Odd to not put this out, and to release "Living with a Heartache" (?!) as a single.
It does have some recycled riffs - Brian's love of the "some-some-some of"/"come-come-come out"/"run-run-runnin" riff is up there with "Shortenin' Bread" - but it's also one of that last songs with really classic Beach Boys harmonies. You've got the vocal stack, the counterpoints, and everything. The length of the tag bothers me a lot, though. That was a bad change in Brian's songwriting in the '70s. He went from leaving us wanting more of his tags in the '60s to milking every tag for what it's worth. As indulgent as the tag to "Marcella" is for a BB fan, I wonder if it would've went over better on the radio if he'd gotten to the point and faded out quicker.

I know longer songs were the big thing in the '70s for serious rock groups, but Brian's genius is best displayed in the 2 minute to 2:30 song.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 09:30:26 AM by Mr. Cohen » Logged
Steve Latshaw
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« Reply #111 on: September 23, 2014, 09:15:56 AM »

The chorus of Some of Your Love comes from a track recorded at MIU in 1977 called Mike Come Back to LA.  I've heard this on a you tube video (a promotional film called OUR TEAM) about the making of MIU.  The film shows Brian pounding out the riff on the piano... then features footage of the vocal recording session with the Beach Boys, Billy Hinsche, et. al.  The vocal parts are quite a bit more complex and interesting than the ones on Some of Your Love.  Worth checking out.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #112 on: September 23, 2014, 10:22:28 AM »

The chorus of Some of Your Love comes from a track recorded at MIU in 1977 called Mike Come Back to LA.  I've heard this on a you tube video (a promotional film called OUR TEAM) about the making of MIU.  The film shows Brian pounding out the riff on the piano... then features footage of the vocal recording session with the Beach Boys, Billy Hinsche, et. al.  The vocal parts are quite a bit more complex and interesting than the ones on Some of Your Love.  Worth checking out.

One of the most intriguing and fascinating piece of footage ever filmed of Brian....IMO....
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« Reply #113 on: September 23, 2014, 12:08:02 PM »

Brian sounds like his younger self in that little bit I could hear of him on Mike Come back to LA.
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« Reply #114 on: September 23, 2014, 12:15:07 PM »

He was getting more of his old voice back. And then he lost it in the following years and hasn't had the same voice since.
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« Reply #115 on: September 24, 2014, 08:16:26 AM »

Quote from: Senior Sherrif
One of the most intriguing and fascinating piece of footage ever filmed of Brian....IMO....
The juxtaposition between what it's like when Brian is in the studio vs. when he's not is interesting. Even at the stage in his career, he brought a real creative vibe to the studio. People are laughing and goofing around. Then you see the footage of Brian working on KTSA a few years later and that sense of reckless abandon in the studio is gone. He's just at work now.
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« Reply #116 on: September 24, 2014, 08:48:21 AM »

And yet... even strung out in No-Man's Land, Carl still sounds better than almost anyone else.

That's true, but "The Night was So Young" is such a terrific song it could have been an all-time classic with a great Carl vocal. I first heard that song when the box set came out in 1993 and I thought it was Brian singing except for the "Why she has to hi-ii-ii-de" (and it's corresponding line in the third verse), which it the only time in the song to me when Carl sounded like Carl.
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« Reply #117 on: September 24, 2014, 08:50:11 AM »

And yet... even strung out in No-Man's Land, Carl still sounds better than almost anyone else.

That's true, but "The Night was So Young" is such a terrific song it could have been an all-time classic with a great Carl vocal. I first heard that song when the box set came out in 1993 and I thought it was Brian singing except for the "Why she has to hi-ii-ii-de" (and it's corresponding line in the third verse), which it the only time in the song to me when Carl sounded like Carl.

I think it's already an all-time classic and I love Carl's voice on it. It's rougher and more shaded than we're used to, but it fits the feel of the song so so well.
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« Reply #118 on: September 24, 2014, 09:18:21 AM »

I think Carl was fine on Love You. IMO he really lost it in the '80s when started singing all those cheesy Mike Love concepts with exaggerated delivery. I want to throw up when he sings on "Still Cruisin'". You'd do anything for a buck at this point, wouldn't you?
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« Reply #119 on: September 24, 2014, 09:21:33 AM »

And yet... even strung out in No-Man's Land, Carl still sounds better than almost anyone else.

That's true, but "The Night was So Young" is such a terrific song it could have been an all-time classic with a great Carl vocal. I first heard that song when the box set came out in 1993 and I thought it was Brian singing except for the "Why she has to hi-ii-ii-de" (and it's corresponding line in the third verse), which it the only time in the song to me when Carl sounded like Carl.

I think it's already an all-time classic and I love Carl's voice on it. It's rougher and more shaded than we're used to, but it fits the feel of the song so so well.

That's how I feel, too. Carl's singing in a lower register and he sounds a little somber, but isn't that how you feel at 3:00 AM when you're at the kitchen sink drinking a glass of milk and thinking about your girlfriend? I think it's a great interpretation of the lyrics.
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« Reply #120 on: September 24, 2014, 10:49:51 AM »

To me, his singing sounded like it was recorded at the wrong speed, or like he was half asleep.
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« Reply #121 on: September 30, 2014, 08:33:57 PM »

I think it's already an all-time classic
Did you just call "The Night Was So Young" an all-time classic? It's overreaching, to say the least. Brian would've nailed it much better.
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« Reply #122 on: September 30, 2014, 09:33:11 PM »

HCTN got tons of radio play where I lived.  It sounded great on the radio, fit right in.
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« Reply #123 on: September 30, 2014, 09:36:29 PM »

I think it's already an all-time classic
Did you just call "The Night Was So Young" an all-time classic? It's overreaching, to say the least. Brian would've nailed it much better.

Brian didn't nail it on the demo so he gave it to Carl to sing. Check out the acapella-only track; it's really good.
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« Reply #124 on: October 01, 2014, 07:30:56 AM »

I think it's already an all-time classic
Did you just call "The Night Was So Young" an all-time classic? It's overreaching, to say the least. Brian would've nailed it much better.

'The Night Was So Young' was, up to that point in 1977, the best new Brian Wilson song since 'Til I Die'. It would stay as the best Brian-written song until 'Melt Away'. Well, maybe 'Good Timin'', but that was written years before. In fact the Love You album is an all-time classic in the Beach Boys' discography, and with the exception of TWGMTR, their last great album. And TNWSY is the best song on it. In my opinion, of course. When I first heard this song, it blew my ears back. I figured the Beach Boys didn't do anything good after Holland. It was really something to be proven wrong...with such a magnificent tune at that.

Carl doesn't have to sing smooth, sweet and heavenly all the time to be beautiful. There's a nice wounded warmth in his voice on TNWSY.
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