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Author Topic: Jameson vs. Kaye-who was the hottest session bassist?  (Read 11930 times)
aeijtzsche
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« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2006, 12:28:42 PM »

I would say her best Beach Boys moment is "Let Him Run Wild."  It's a great line and she interprets it with panache.

The rest of the great moments she was involved with are really group efforts, between her and Lyle Ritz' string bass.  Sloop John B comes to mind.
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JRauch
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« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2006, 12:33:00 PM »

"Good Vibrations" has a great bass-line too.
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2006, 12:38:41 PM »

Please Let Me Wonder and Salt Lake City.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2006, 12:51:24 PM »

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"Good Vibrations" has a great bass-line too.

Yeah, but the vast majority of the released version is played by Ray Pohlman and Lyle Ritz.  Carol just played on the choruses of GV.
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« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2006, 03:45:20 PM »

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"Good Vibrations" has a great bass-line too.

Yeah, but the vast majority of the released version is played by Ray Pohlman and Lyle Ritz.  Carol just played on the choruses of GV.

"just played on the choruses of GV"

Still a credit most bass players in the world think very highly of! Quite an awesome bass line, that chorus.

I like "The Little Girl I Once Knew". And "California Girls" is just right in the pocket.

(...that is Carol, isn't it?)
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« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2006, 03:56:42 PM »

Seems like I just addressed this on another post somewhere but.............

Carol Kaye plays like a music teacher.  Jamerson plays like a Jazz musician.


That's just not true - one thing Carol Kaye's bass playing always had was a groove, and she got so many gigs because, like Jamerson and the other greats, she knew whose job it was in the band to push the groove ahead.

I don't like that "plays like a music teacher" comment.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
aeijtzsche
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« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2006, 04:12:30 PM »

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(...that is Carol, isn't it?)

Yes.

I agree, she doesn't play "like a music teacher."  My mom does, she's a piano teacher, and she's never quite nailed the swing or shuffle rhythms.  It's too metronomic or something.

Carol had a great sense of groove.  I think Help Me, Rhonda is actually the best example of that.  Not only Carol, but also the whole scene.  The swing they put into it, the accent on the "And of two" is so subtle.

You put that song in the hands of people that hadn't played a lot of big band (or jazz, or whatever), and it's not as rhythmically dynamic, for sure.
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« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2006, 04:41:43 PM »

I don't like that "plays like a music teacher" comment.


Well, I don't like your tie!
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« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2006, 06:44:45 PM »

I don't like that "plays like a music teacher" comment.


Well, I don't like your tie!

This one?


Besides being music-teacher approved, it also plays "We Built This City On Rock And Roll" when you squeeze it.
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« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2006, 06:54:02 PM »

YES!
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« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2006, 07:47:11 PM »

Yeah, but Jamerson has such a distinct style. His bass playing is really powerful, like an earthquake.  Carol Kaye seems to just blend into the background, I mean it seems hard to pick a song shows off the Carol Kaye sound. I mean what song really shows off the Carol Kaye sound? Maybe she wasn't given the type of material, like the Motown songs, that would allow her to show off.
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« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2006, 08:06:10 PM »

Didn't various people just mention songs that feature her sound?  The Mission Impossible theme is her sound.  Nobody else sounds like that.

Plus, you have to remember, Carol's sound quickly became ripped off by every producer on the west coast.  She's not exaggerating that she put a lot of string bass players out of a lot of sessions, and almost single handedly started the decline of having two or three bass players on a session.  Her playing showed producers they could have a nice low end as well as an attack.

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Daniel S.
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« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2006, 08:18:15 PM »

I just downloaded the Mission Impossible TV theme and  I have to say that isn't exactly virtuouso playing is it? Again, I'm not saying it's her fault because she has to stay in step with the song she's playing. It's not Motown. But are you trying to tell me that comes anywhere close to Jamerson? Maybe he had more of chance to show off and blast that song out into the stratosphere, but Paul McCartney considered Jamerson and Brian Wilson to be his big bass playing influences.
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« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2006, 08:25:27 PM »

I thought we were talking about sound, not "virtuosity," whatever that is.  To me, the virtuosity that matters in this case is a virtuosity that both Carol and James had in spades; they were virtuosic at playing what other people wanted them to play.  Until they get to face off in an afterlife bass chops showdown, that's really as far as you can go.

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Paul McCartney considered Jamerson and Brian Wilson to be his big bass playing influences.

I don't think Paul was too concerned with who actually played Brian's lines, and probably didn't know that Ray and Carol  (uh, and Al) basically took over for Brian in 1963.  Interesting too, that Brian considers Carol his biggest bass playing (and bassline writing) influence.
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« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2006, 02:17:18 AM »

Find out who made the most money during their sessions, and you will find the 'hottest' session bassist....
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« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2006, 05:12:00 AM »

Find out who made the most money during their sessions, and you will find the 'hottest' session bassist....

If you measure it that way it's probably Kaye.
But with regards to her sound she may have helped to save money for some producers, but she doesn't seem to be as creative a player as Jamerson.

Søren
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2006, 06:23:43 AM »

I don't think it's fair to measure creativity by using what people played as hired session musicians.  I mean, what's our criteria?  16th notes?  Chromaticism?  Phrasing?  If people are intent on choosing a winner, let's have some solid, hard core criteria.  Otherwise it's just taste.
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jazzfascist
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« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2006, 08:18:05 AM »

I don't think it's fair to measure creativity by using what people played as hired session musicians.  I mean, what's our criteria?  16th notes?  Chromaticism?  Phrasing?  If people are intent on choosing a winner, let's have some solid, hard core criteria.  Otherwise it's just taste.

It seems from some of your answers, that Carol Kaye's creativity lay in her ability to help get a good sound in the studio, whereas with Jamerson he seemed to be more musically creative, in that he together with Benny Benjamin created a lot of the rhytmtracks for Motown and in the process also created a whole new style of bassplaying. I guess it depends on what qualities you think are the most important for a studio-bassplayer.

Søren
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« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2006, 10:47:41 PM »

Man, why do people get offended if someone says that Kaye or Jameson plays like whoever or how she plays it?  Good god.  We all hear slight differences in music.  Yes, Kaye, in some instances plays like a music teacher.  Not always, but in some - but hey, that's what my ears hear.   For all I know, my ears just might suck.  The wife says I can't hear jack schitt anyway...but that's in her mind. Tongue

I hear Kaye's playing very alive in Surf's Up for the first movement.   It is a truly copied sound from many bassists in the studio field of that time.   I really like that sound.  HOWEVER, it was up to a producer like Spector or Wilson to craft the tone of it and direct her how to play it. 

She's not like Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, Mike Watt or Les Claypool where they have their own sounds and make things up on the fly. 
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« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2006, 06:01:24 AM »

I love Carol Kaye's bass sound on the "Hogan's Heroes" theme  Smiley
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