Breaking down "In Concert"

[wantsomecorn]

Did Carl play any bass on this record or is the Priess book just wrong on that quote?  

This has been bugging me too - given that Ed seems to be playing lead guitar on "Help Me Rhonda", either Blondie or Carl could be playing bass on that track.

If I'm right, I think Help Me Rhonda has always been weird with its bass players - that was one of the songs where Bruce would play Bass on even into the early 80s, and also one where Brian would occasionally play Bass on in the 80s, as said in a thread describing the "Chinese Fire Drill" in the 1980s (which, now that I check... was actually written by you. How about that?).

However, later in that thread, c-man says Blondie was on lead guitar and Ed on bass for the MIC Rhonda, which was from 1972, so unless they changed the arrangement over the course of a year, it probably stayed the same.

Really, knowing what Ed Carter played lead guitar on would help with knowing if Carl played any bass the most, but considering the guy has one whole interview on file for  his entire life...

Thanks for reminding me of that thread (and the info with in it.  I've been under the weather lately (and starting a new job) but I plan to start compiling a spreadsheet for the album and blocking out the instrumentation and that stuff will definitely come in handy.

I actually already made a Google Doc for that. It's pretty bare so far, but I guess this would be the easiest way for people to add things to it.

I've never tried something like this before, so hopefully everyone can access it.

Great job!  Should Daryl Dragon be added to the '72 recordings?  I think it's been established that he played those shows even though he isn't lited in the credits.

Yeah, he should. Was he the only different person touring with them at that time? I tried to cross-check with Eric Anniversario's page and AGD's list, but there weren't any lists of backing musicians for the '72 recordings. (Apparently they only recorded four shows over two nights for the single album version.)

[metal flake paint]

Using Bellagio 10452 and Ian and Jon's book as references, it would seem that Daryl may have been present at the November 19, 1972 performance, from which Wouldn't It Be Nice, Let The Wind Blow, Marcella, Don't Worry Baby, and Good Vibrations were used for the In Concert album.

Daryl may also have been present at the November 23 gig, from which Wonderful/Don't Worry, Bill and Long Promised Road were used on the Endless Harmony CD.

[wantsomecorn]

Thanks for the information. Do you know who the entire lineup for the November 1972 shows were?

I'm thinking it was (based mostly off of what I can remember from Ian & Jon's book, plus the somewhat inaccurate "Beach Boys Lineups" wikipedia page)

Daryl (who was then replaced by Carli Munoz the next year)
Ed Carter
Billy Hinsche (he went back to school in 1973, being replaced by Toni Tenille, then coming back for the Summer tour)
Mike Kowalski
and I feel like there was a different percussionist?

[metal flake paint]

Thanks for the information. Do you know who the entire lineup for the November 1972 shows were?

I'm thinking it was (based mostly off of what I can remember from Ian & Jon's book, plus the somewhat inaccurate "Beach Boys Lineups" wikipedia page)

Daryl (who was then replaced by Carli Munoz the next year)
Ed Carter
Billy Hinsche (he went back to school in 1973, being replaced by Toni Tenille, then coming back for the Summer tour)
Mike Kowalski
and I feel like there was a different percussionist?

I wish that I had a conclusive line-up for that gig. However, Ian and Jon's book provide some clues, so on that basis, I'd add Toni Shearer. I'm not sure if that means Billy sat out that November '72 tour.

Interestingly, there is a photo of Billy and Toni playing in the band which claims to have been taken at the Auditorium Theater, August 1972.

[c-man]

Thanks for the information. Do you know who the entire lineup for the November 1972 shows were?

I'm thinking it was (based mostly off of what I can remember from Ian & Jon's book, plus the somewhat inaccurate "Beach Boys Lineups" wikipedia page)

Daryl (who was then replaced by Carli Munoz the next year)
Ed Carter
Billy Hinsche (he went back to school in 1973, being replaced by Toni Tenille, then coming back for the Summer tour)
Mike Kowalski
and I feel like there was a different percussionist?

I wish that I had a conclusive line-up for that gig. However, Ian and Jon's book provide some clues, so on that basis, I'd add Toni Shearer. I'm not sure if that means Billy sat out that November '72 tour.

Interestingly, there is a photo of Billy and Toni playing in the band which claims to have been taken at the Auditorium Theater, August 1972.

Yes - Billy played bass on the August '72 tour (Ed Carter sat that one out), so he and Toni were both in the band at that time. For the November '72 tour, Eddie was back on bass, Daryl and Toni were both still with the band, and Mike Kowalski was indeed the percussionist.

[wantsomecorn]

Thanks for the information. Do you know who the entire lineup for the November 1972 shows were?

I'm thinking it was (based mostly off of what I can remember from Ian & Jon's book, plus the somewhat inaccurate "Beach Boys Lineups" wikipedia page)

Daryl (who was then replaced by Carli Munoz the next year)
Ed Carter
Billy Hinsche (he went back to school in 1973, being replaced by Toni Tenille, then coming back for the Summer tour)
Mike Kowalski
and I feel like there was a different percussionist?

I wish that I had a conclusive line-up for that gig. However, Ian and Jon's book provide some clues, so on that basis, I'd add Toni Shearer. I'm not sure if that means Billy sat out that November '72 tour.

Interestingly, there is a photo of Billy and Toni playing in the band which claims to have been taken at the Auditorium Theater, August 1972.

Yes - Billy played bass on the August '72 tour (Ed Carter sat that one out), so he and Toni were both in the band at that time. For the November '72 tour, Eddie was back on bass, Daryl and Toni were both still with the band, and Mike Kowalski was indeed the percussionist.

Thank you very much, c-man. The line-up changes in this era always have interested me - we freak out now when Matt Jardine misses one show, but back then, people were always coming in and out, changing instruments. I can only imagine what it was like to follow the band at the time.

Now, trying to pick apart the 1972 shows, "Wouldn't It Be Nice", as you say, has Daryl Dragon on vibes, as the only other keyboard I hear is an organ that is mixed pretty low, but comes up towards the end, which I'm assuming is Toni. Mike Kowalski should then be on the congas (especially prominent around the 1:00 mark), Ed on bass, Al, Blondie, and Carl on guitar, Ricky on drums.

[c-man]

Thanks for the information. Do you know who the entire lineup for the November 1972 shows were?

I'm thinking it was (based mostly off of what I can remember from Ian & Jon's book, plus the somewhat inaccurate "Beach Boys Lineups" wikipedia page)

Daryl (who was then replaced by Carli Munoz the next year)
Ed Carter
Billy Hinsche (he went back to school in 1973, being replaced by Toni Tenille, then coming back for the Summer tour)
Mike Kowalski
and I feel like there was a different percussionist?

I wish that I had a conclusive line-up for that gig. However, Ian and Jon's book provide some clues, so on that basis, I'd add Toni Shearer. I'm not sure if that means Billy sat out that November '72 tour.

Interestingly, there is a photo of Billy and Toni playing in the band which claims to have been taken at the Auditorium Theater, August 1972.

Yes - Billy played bass on the August '72 tour (Ed Carter sat that one out), so he and Toni were both in the band at that time. For the November '72 tour, Eddie was back on bass, Daryl and Toni were both still with the band, and Mike Kowalski was indeed the percussionist.

Forgot to mention...Billy evidently sat in on a couple November '72 shows, hence that shout-out to both he and Daryl during and after the piano solo for "Help Me, Rhonda" on the MIC box set.

[Rocker]

Rob Dean posted a link to Billy Hinsche's "On the road with the Beach Boys" with footage from '74. Maybe some of the footage helps with the musician credits:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,2412.msg474009.html#msg474009

[c-man]

Rob Dean posted a link to Billy Hinsche's "On the road with the Beach Boys" with footage from '74. Maybe some of the footage helps with the musician credits:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,2412.msg474009.html#msg474009

Well, by '74 the lineup had changed somewhat...the DVD includes footage from April '74, when the backup guys were Billy Hinsche on piano, Carli Munoz on organ/clavinet, Don Lewis on synthesizers, Bobby Figueroa on percussion/drums, and James William Guercio on bass, and May '74, when it was Billy Hinsche on piano, Carli Munoz on organ/clavinet, Bobby Figueroa on percussion/drums, and Ed Carter on bass.

[wantsomecorn]

For one thing, it shows that they had four keyboard players on "Trader" - Carl, Billy, Dennis, and Carli.

And also that they really, really, liked backgammon.

[wantsomecorn]

Does anybody know what Ed Carter played lead guitar on? It seems like we've decided he isn't on the solo for "Help Me Rhonda", and of the three tracks Blondie (definately) plays bass on, he would be one of the additional guitars on "Heroes and Villains" and "You Still Believe in Me" although I only hear one guitar (presumably Carl's) on "Caroline No", so it seems likely Ed, Al, and Mike left the stage for that song.

[Mikie]

Does anybody know what Ed Carter played lead guitar on? It seems like we've decided he isn't on the solo for "Help Me Rhonda",

Really?  Who decided that?

[wantsomecorn]

Mikie, I was basing it off of this quote,

"And, the MIC live version of "Rhonda" has Blondie Chaplin on lead, and Eddie on bass (same as the Crystal Palace video that's circulating from earlier that year)."

C-man, how do you know this? Is it based on the close proximity of concert dates? Just curious.

This statement, if it's true, helps to support the notion that Blondie played the lead in the middle of Rhonda on the "In Concert" album, but as C-man suggests, we may never know for sure. I'm sure the players (or are still alive) would know right away who it was if they'd heard it.

but now that I look at it again, I realize it didn't sound nearly as solid as I thought it did.

[Eric Aniversario]

I watched portions of the 1974 dvd that were posted. How long was Don Lewis with the band? I don't remember ever hearing about him till I saw his interview.

[wantsomecorn]

I watched portions of the 1974 dvd that were posted. How long was Don Lewis with the band? I don't remember ever hearing about him till I saw his interview.

That DVD covers the April and May tours. Don Lewis (and James Guercio) was only on the April tour. I guess they felt they didn't need him, because they already had Billy, Carli, Dennis, and Carl on keys. He still was a really good musician though, as the tag to this performance of Surf's Up shows - Carl name checks him at the end.

[c-man]

I watched portions of the 1974 dvd that were posted. How long was Don Lewis with the band? I don't remember ever hearing about him till I saw his interview.

That DVD covers the April and May tours. Don Lewis (and James Guercio) was only on the April tour. I guess they felt they didn't need him, because they already had Billy, Carli, Dennis, and Carl on keys. He still was a really good musician though, as the tag to this performance of Surf's Up shows - Carl name checks him at the end.

Yes, he was an aquaintence of Dennis' that Dennis brought along for that one tour. Billy couldn't remember his name when he was assembling the DVD, but I was aware due to the name check that Dennis actually gave him at the end of a performance of "Surf's Up" on a live tape I had from that tour...so I tracked him down on the 'net and suggested he reach out to Billy, who was delighted to hear from him, and they subsequently filmed his interview footage for the DVD.

[37!ws]

I would love to know the breakdown of each song -- when and where it was recorded...and I know someone once identified where the cover shot was from, but darned if I can remember.

[Jon Stebbins]

I would love to know the breakdown of each song -- when and where it was recorded...and I know someone once identified where the cover shot was from, but darned if I can remember.

The Beach Boys In Concert book has most of the information you seek.

[Mikie]

I watched portions of the 1974 dvd that were posted. How long was Don Lewis with the band? I don't remember ever hearing about him till I saw his interview.

That DVD covers the April and May tours. Don Lewis (and James Guercio) was only on the April tour. I guess they felt they didn't need him, because they already had Billy, Carli, Dennis, and Carl on keys. He still was a really good musician though, as the tag to this performance of Surf's Up shows - Carl name checks him at the end.

Yes, he was an aquaintence of Dennis' that Dennis brought along for that one tour. Billy couldn't remember his name when he was assembling the DVD, but I was aware due to the name check that Dennis actually gave him at the end of a performance of "Surf's Up" on a live tape I had from that tour...so I tracked him down on the 'net and suggested he reach out to Billy, who was delighted to hear from him, and they subsequently filmed his interview footage for the DVD.

Thanks for that. I'd never heard of him before this thread. Is Lewis credited anywhere else?

[Mikie]

I would love to know the breakdown of each song -- when and where it was recorded...and I know someone once identified where the cover shot was from, but darned if I can remember.

The majority of the photos on the album cover/sleeve were taken by Ed Caraeff on April 20th, 1973 at the Hollywood Palladium. Both Brian and Bruce showed up that day and Bruce played on an encore song. Caraeff went to two more shows (November '72 or August '73) to take more photographs of the band.

[Dave Modny]

I would love to know the breakdown of each song -- when and where it was recorded...and I know someone once identified where the cover shot was from, but darned if I can remember.

The Beach Boys In Concert book has most of the information you seek.

Jon,

On a related note, and I may have made this query in another thread to no avail, do you or anyone else happen to have the info for where and when that album's version of "Fun, Fun, Fun" was recorded? Unless I missed it while reading -- and I may very well have -- I believe it was the only track on the album that the book didn't cite (i.e. only 19 out of 20 were listed there).

Or...is that particular bit of info MIA?


TIA!
Dave

[tpesky]

Does anybody know what Ed Carter played lead guitar on? It seems like we've decided he isn't on the solo for "Help Me Rhonda", and of the three tracks Blondie (definately) plays bass on, he would be one of the additional guitars on "Heroes and Villains" and "You Still Believe in Me" although I only hear one guitar (presumably Carl's) on "Caroline No", so it seems likely Ed, Al, and Mike left the stage for that song.

Carl may have played keys on Caroline No.

[c-man]

Does anybody know what Ed Carter played lead guitar on? It seems like we've decided he isn't on the solo for "Help Me Rhonda", and of the three tracks Blondie (definately) plays bass on, he would be one of the additional guitars on "Heroes and Villains" and "You Still Believe in Me" although I only hear one guitar (presumably Carl's) on "Caroline No", so it seems likely Ed, Al, and Mike left the stage for that song.

Carl may have played keys on Caroline No.

I originally considered that, but now I'm confident that it's Carli Muñoz playing the electric piano and Billy the acoustic piano on "Caroline, No". The strummed guitar would definitely by Carl. Ricky on flute, Blondie on bass. Ed Carter may be helping with the percussion.

[Fall Breaks]

Didn't I also read somewhere that the piano on Leaving This Town was overdubbed in the studio due to some technical problem? Therefore, it may not be Carl who played it even though he might have done so live.

[c-man]

Didn't I also read somewhere that the piano on Leaving This Town was overdubbed in the studio due to some technical problem? Therefore, it may not be Carl who played it even though he might have done so live.

I would tend to think it was Carl, even if it had to be overdubbed. From what I've read, Carl and Ricky were the two Beach Boys involved in the mixdown. Carl was there every day, so I don't see why it wouldn't be him, since he already knew the part.