Everything really did come from Brian, think about it:::

[kookadams]

In 62-66 brian wilson was the epitome of the perfect two minute pop/rock song AND THEN he became the epitome of experimentalism and breaking boundries...THE entire evolution of music was all because of him . And Ive NEVER seen anyone disprove that ,anytime anyones ever undermined the BBs theyve never had a legitimate reason why...some people just dont like music and those are very self-loathing individuals .

[startBBtoday]

Goree Carter, Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly, Bill Haley, Bo Diddley, Little Richard and the doo wop groups of the 50s would like a word with you about this whole evolution of music and "perfect two minute pop/rock song" claim.

The Beach Boys are the best band ever, in my opinion, but the evolution of music, and modern music specifically, was happening far before The Beach Boys dropped Surfin', Surfin' Safari, 409 or Surfin' USA.

[the captain]

Not only is startBBtoday correct about pop-rock songs, but Brian was far from the only musician experimenting, either. I think it's safe to say someone like FZ would take exception to the idea, among many others.

To say BW is the sole progenitor is really to disrespect countless brilliant (and great, and good) musicians. Honestly, with all due respect to kookadams, it comes off as the over-enthusiasm of delusional fanboy. You can like BE best without resorting to that.

[pixletwin]

In 62-66 brian wilson was the epitome of the perfect two minute pop/rock song AND THEN he became the epitome of experimentalism and breaking boundries...THE entire evolution of music was all because of him . And Ive NEVER seen anyone disprove that ,anytime anyones ever undermined the BBs theyve never had a legitimate reason why...some people just dont like music and those are very self-loathing individuals .

There isn't a big enough eyeroll emoticon, but I'll find one someday.

I especially am interested in your belief that anyone who disagrees with you doesn't like music and is a very "self-loathing" individual.  "Troll" I name thee! COme out from under thy bridge!

[Lowbacca]

Brian Wilson 'perfected'* much of pop/rock, back then.. or at least brought it to new heights. That much is true. But, as was already mentioned, there were countless others. Do they bow humbly before Brian Wilson? Many of them do. Doesn't mean he didn't have numerous musical ancestors or talented contemporaries. B-Dubs himself has never failed to acknowledge this.



* Highly debatable choice of words, I know..

[pixletwin]

Brian Wilson 'perfected'* much of pop/rock, back then.. or at least brought it to new heights. That much is true. But, as was already mentioned, there were countless others. Do they bow humbly before Brian Wilson? Many of them do. Doesn't mean he didn't have numerous musical ancestors or talented contemporaries. B-Dubs himself has never failed to acknowledge this.



* Highly debatable choice of words, I know..

One thing that bugs me about kooks' POV is e nearly always fails to acknowledge that there were two very proficient and talented people helping Brian accomplish all those amazing things: Chuck Britz and Hal Blaine. He always speaks as if Brian was the lone genius brilliantly blazing a path for others.

[Jon Stebbins]

Brian Wilson 'perfected'* much of pop/rock, back then.. or at least brought it to new heights. That much is true. But, as was already mentioned, there were countless others. Do they bow humbly before Brian Wilson? Many of them do. Doesn't mean he didn't have numerous musical ancestors or talented contemporaries. B-Dubs himself has never failed to acknowledge this.



* Highly debatable choice of words, I know..

One thing that bugs me about kooks' POV is e nearly always fails to acknowledge that there were two very proficient and talented people helping Brian accomplish all those amazing things: Chuck Britz and Hal Blaine. He always speaks as if Brian was the lone genius brilliantly blazing a path for others.

Do you honestly think Hal Blaine had a bigger role in helping Brian than Carl Wilson? Hal wasn't even present at the majority of the Beach Boys sessions in the '60's. Chuck britz you could make a case for, he was there at the beginning and through the best years, but even Chuck wasn't there when they used other studios. Carl, the list starts with him. And I'd probably put Mike and Dennis near the top too...that is unless you are focusing on a narrow window like 1966.

[SMiLE Brian]

*sigh* Kook's post is too much even for my brianista views.....

[pixletwin]

Brian Wilson 'perfected'* much of pop/rock, back then.. or at least brought it to new heights. That much is true. But, as was already mentioned, there were countless others. Do they bow humbly before Brian Wilson? Many of them do. Doesn't mean he didn't have numerous musical ancestors or talented contemporaries. B-Dubs himself has never failed to acknowledge this.



* Highly debatable choice of words, I know..

One thing that bugs me about kooks' POV is e nearly always fails to acknowledge that there were two very proficient and talented people helping Brian accomplish all those amazing things: Chuck Britz and Hal Blaine. He always speaks as if Brian was the lone genius brilliantly blazing a path for others.

Do you honestly think Hal Blaine had a bigger role in helping Brian than Carl Wilson? Hal wasn't even present at the majority of the Beach Boys sessions in the '60's.

Besides the obvious, Jon. Please point out to me where I said Hal was more important than Carl.

Anyhoo, the point of my post was that Kook has an extreme revisionist POV on Beach Boys history (and indeed, music history) where Brian is THE CATALYST. THE GENESIS. Of all things PROGRESSIVE in music. I think a response to that would be far more interesting than splitting hair with little ol' me.  

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Jon, I think he meant those were two of the people helping Brian, not the only two people helping him.

At least that's how I took it!

-Billy

[pixletwin]

Jon, I think he meant those were two of the people helping Brian, not the only two people helping him.

At least that's how I took it!

-Billy

Thanks Billy. That was precisely my point.

[Jim Rockford]

I thought about it and I disagree.

[Jon Stebbins]

Jon, I think he meant those were two of the people helping Brian, not the only two people helping him.

At least that's how I took it!

-Billy

Thanks Billy. That was precisely my point.

OK I admit i was taking your post literally as written, that there were two people ...helping Brian accomplish all those amazing things. If you were not suggesting they were the two most important in helping him then we are in agreement. As far as commenting on Kookas post...he's never seen anyone disprove his point that the entire evolution of music was because of Brian. I think that speaks for itself.

[rogerlancelot]

This is one of those train wreck threads. How about starting a thread on the subject of Dennis having long hair before the Beatles? I don't think it would have pages and pages of verbal abuse.

[SMiLE Brian]

Or how Eric Lapp escaped Louisiana......

[rogerlancelot]

'Twas quite the exodus.

 

[SMiLE Brian]

Tell Us and save the thread!

[rogerlancelot]

There is quite a story to be told but I would hate to be the one to get in trouble for having this thread moved to the sandbox.

If we go back to the original theme, who came first: Brian Wilson or Howard Hughes?
 
I love Brian Wilson and his band mates and one of the reasons is because of their many flaws. I can actually relate to hearing about them because they are so mortal just like all of us.

[The Shift]

The one thing I'd say that might put an aspect of Kook's theory in some kind if perspective is that he Beach Boys are, sometimes, so self-contained that I don't need to lists to anything else for long periods. It's all there from fiery, naive rock and roll to full-blown orchestrated symphonic suites. Brian was the sun around which it all - collaborators, band members, engineers, lyricists, tunes, albums… - orbited.

But I still likes me some John Martyn, or Neil Young, Jethro Tull, Nick Drake and stuff from time to time. sh*t, even God took a day in six off…!

[joshferrell]

I would also suggest listening to Jan and deans early stuff too.. there's some really cool experimental stuff they did, some recorded in Jan's garage... also we can't forget about Buddy Holly, especially his last recordings..

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Jon, I think he meant those were two of the people helping Brian, not the only two people helping him.

At least that's how I took it!

-Billy

Thanks Billy. That was precisely my point.

OK I admit i was taking your post literally as written, that there were two people ...helping Brian accomplish all those amazing things. If you were not suggesting they were the two most important in helping him then we are in agreement. As far as commenting on Kookas post...he's never seen anyone disprove his point that the entire evolution of music was because of Brian. I think that speaks for itself.

Oh, most definitely.  Here's the thing...if that were the case, then Brian wouldn't have had any influences .  Brian may be the best (IMHO), but he was by no means first.

[SenorPotatoHead]

Brian did what all truly brilliant artists do - take their influences and create something new out of them.   It's like his combining of instruments to create new sounds, same principle.   Everyone is influenced by someone or something else before them.  The greats take those things and something new and unique to the table.  It's all one big tapestry.    Brian's thread is mighty strong, though perhaps mighty brief too. 

[pixletwin]

I would also suggest listening to Jan and deans early stuff too.. there's some really cool experimental stuff they did, some recorded in Jan's garage... also we can't forget about Buddy Holly, especially his last recordings..

Especially Buddy. Can you imagine if he had lived? He was almost the prototype Brian wilson.

[Lowbacca]

I would also suggest listening to Jan and deans early stuff too.. there's some really cool experimental stuff they did, some recorded in Jan's garage... also we can't forget about Buddy Holly, especially his last recordings..

Especially Buddy. Can you imagine if he had lived? He was almost the prototype Brian wilson.

It's mindboggling that he didn't even live to see the 60s..... yet his songwriting was so advanced and unique it doesn't even sound like the 50s. Melodies in pop & rock never got better, either. Well, Brian's maybe... But thinking about what Buddy Holly could have achieved in the 60s makes me really depressed. Just listen to those recordings. Outtasight!! And rock & roll was still in its infancy then.. One of the true tragedies in music history.






HERE'S TO BUDDY! *opens first Friday beer*

[pixletwin]

Yeah. I think I'll listen to some Buddy today. If I recall right, he would have been 79 years old next month.