For a band with so much in the vaults, why so much filler?

[buddhahat]

How come this band so often structured albums badly or padded them out with filler, despite the wealth of quality unreleased material?

I have this thought so often when listening to the BBs. Presumably others do too. I thought it might be worth starting a thread to moan about album sequencing missed opportunities. At the very least it will be a place where I can express my own frustration when these negative thoughts occur.

I was listening to Today! and after Please Let Me Wonder had finished my mind began playing the opening bars to Guess I'm Dumb. Side two is great but, wow, what an addition that track would have made (with BB vocals, obviously). When Brian decided they had to pad the album out with Bull Session With Big Daddy I wonder if he kicked himself for giving that tune to Glenn Campbell. And why didn't they try and record it as a BB tune in the first place? It's clearly a great song. If their albums were fit to bursting with quality material I could understand, but so much of the catalogue is blighted with obvious filler.



  

[TimeToGetAlone]

One of the fascinating/maddening aspects of Beach Boys history.  They could have improved many an album with the goldmine of unreleased gems at their disposal.  Argument over tracklisting aside, it's ridiculous how a song like (Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again which was fully complete and excellent stayed unheard for over 40 years.

[Joel Goldenberg]

How come this band so often structured albums badly or padded them out with filler, despite the wealth of quality unreleased material?

I have this thought so often when listening to the BBs. Presumably others do too. I thought it might be worth starting a thread to moan about album sequencing missed opportunities. At the very least it will be a place where I can express my own frustration when these negative thoughts occur.

I was listening to Today! and after Please Let Me Wonder had finished my mind began playing the opening bars to Guess I'm Dumb. Side two is great but, wow, what an addition that track would have made (with BB vocals, obviously). When Brian decided they had to pad the album out with Bull Session With Big Daddy I wonder if he kicked himself for giving that tune to Glenn Campbell. And why didn't they try and record it as a BB tune in the first place? It's clearly a great song. If their albums were fit to bursting with quality material I could understand, but so much of the catalogue is blighted with obvious filler.



  

Regarding Guess I'm Dumb, maybe as in the case of In the Back of My Mind and the Dennis lead vocal, the lyrics were too personal and Brian felt uncomfortable with singing them himself, and in this case gave it to a brief Beach Boy. If this was the case, Brian soon lost this discomfort and sang I Just Wasn't Made For These Times.

[Joel Goldenberg]

One of the fascinating/maddening aspects of Beach Boys history.  They could have improved many an album with the goldmine of unreleased gems at their disposal.  Argument over tracklisting aside, it's ridiculous how a song like (Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again which was fully complete and excellent stayed unheard for over 40 years.

In the Elvis Presley realm, although it's not that iconic a song, I felt that way about the 1972 studio recording of For the Good Times, which was only available as a live version for more than 20 years despite many opportunities to place it on various collections.

[puni puni]

Love once said in the 70s or 80s that the band usually left outtakes when they felt the material didn't belong on the album or would be more suitable on a future album.

[phirnis]

Personally I feel that artists are pretty bad at judging their own material in terms of quality. Brian Wilson named 15 Big Ones his favorite album more than once and while I personally really like that album you'll hardly find a fan of the BB who's going to tell you it's his/her favorite thing the group ever did.

[Nicko1234]

With Guess I`m Dumb, wasn`t it more arguments about it being too much of a downer for the group?

[phirnis]

Someone should've told them early on, "You're going to be around for at least 50 years and your geeky male die-hard fanbase is going to adore you for your 'downer' material more than anything else".

[drbeachboy]

With Guess I`m Dumb, wasn`t it more arguments about it being too much of a downer for the group?

At that point and time, Guess I'm Dumb was not stylistically close to what they were doing as a band. This was a song for an outside project, at least this arrangement, anyway.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Remember, for a long time the group was churning out 2, sometimes 3, albums a year; the sheer pace of their output probably had as much to do with it as anything.

[the captain]

Personally I feel that artists are pretty bad at judging their own material in terms of quality. Brian Wilson named 15 Big Ones his favorite album more than once and while I personally really like that album you'll hardly find a fan of the BB who's going to tell you it's his/her favorite thing the group ever did.

I agree that the artist is rarely his or her best editor (in any art form). I actually like when artists follow the Lou Reed penned, Warhol-inspired method of "just work" (letting others analyze, evaluate, etc). Zappa, Prince, and Dylan are among examples of that.

And yet it's valid to cede to artists control of their own careers (and thus output), at least while they're alive, so if someone wants to--quite possibly misguidedly--withhold work from the public, oh well.

The BBs seem unique in the sheer volume of quality work withheld at least from it's initially intended purpose, if not altogether, though. It's baffling.

[Hot Rod]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Remember, for a long time the group was churning out 2, sometimes 3, albums a year; the sheer pace of their output probably had as much to do with it as anything.

I think this is pretty much the reason. But what I don't understand are these stupid unlistenable Recording Sessions that they released. I much rather listen to a filler song than this.

[drbeachboy]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Remember, for a long time the group was churning out 2, sometimes 3, albums a year; the sheer pace of their output probably had as much to do with it as anything.

I think this is pretty much the reason. But what I don't understand are these stupid unlistenable Recording Sessions that they released. I much rather listen to a filler song than this.

This probably goes back to Brian wanting to include comedy pieces in his work. It is OK when it is new, but that kind of stuff grows very old as time goes by.

[the captain]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Remember, for a long time the group was churning out 2, sometimes 3, albums a year; the sheer pace of their output probably had as much to do with it as anything.

I think this is pretty much the reason. But what I don't understand are these stupid unlistenable Recording Sessions that they released. I much rather listen to a filler song than this.

This probably goes back to Brian wanting to include comedy pieces in his work. It is OK when it is new, but that kind of stuff grows very old as time goes by.

Doubtful they thought how those bits would stand the test of time though. It was all so temporal and disposable in those days.

[Beachlad]

I would guess the early stuff was because they were putting out so many albums per year.  If Brian only had to do an album a year or every couple like they do now could have been a lot better for his issues. Just the stress from the record company had to be unbearable. it is not like he was getting a lot of help from any one.  Mcartney had Lennon and vice versa plus George Martin probably meant even more.

[drbeachboy]

I have always liked most of Brian's "Filler" music. So, for the most part I'm happy with albums just the way they are.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

I have always liked most of Brian's "Filler" music. So, for the most part I'm happy with albums just the way they are.

Aside from the comedy talk tracks, I like pretty much all of the band's 'filler'. Shut Down Vol 2 for instance is always accused of being full of filler, and yet I could quite happily listen to This Car of Mine, Pom Pom Play Girl, the title track, etc. repeatedly, any time, any day, anywhere. In fact, just talking about them is making me want to listen to them right now. If that's filler, I say I only wish there were more of it

[Kurosawa]

I have always liked most of Brian's "Filler" music. So, for the most part I'm happy with albums just the way they are.

Aside from the comedy talk tracks, I like pretty much all of the band's 'filler'. Shut Down Vol 2 for instance is always accused of being full of filler, and yet I could quite happily listen to This Car of Mine, Pom Pom Play Girl, the title track, etc. repeatedly, any time, any day, anywhere. In fact, just talking about them is making me want to listen to them right now. If that's filler, I say I only wish there were more of it

I know what you mean. I feel the same way about songs like Drive-In.

[Niko]

The only thing that bothers me is where there were better tracks that could have been released instead of the 'filler', or at the very least, along side them, which would improve the album.

Shut Down Part 2 is my least favorite in terms of filler. Don't Worry Baby followed by In The Parking Lot does not work for me, as gorgeous as the harmonies may be on that song. The album just lacks balance...though I'll spin both sides every time.

[Gabo]

They were a singles band in the early years. The albums were basically thrown together. Today might not even be an exception, no matter how lovely it is...

[Lonely Summer]

They were a singles band in the early years. The albums were basically thrown together. Today might not even be an exception, no matter how lovely it is...

That's true, the focus of the industry back then was on hit singles, the the BB's did fine on that front. It was only after we got albums like Rubber Soul and Pet Sounds that we expected perfection on all 10 or 12 tracks.

[smilethebeachboysloveyou]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Remember, for a long time the group was churning out 2, sometimes 3, albums a year; the sheer pace of their output probably had as much to do with it as anything.

In addition to the fact that they were touring constantly.  It's no coincidence that Pet Sounds came after Brian had 1) quit touring and 2) seriously slowed down the band's output.  I do like a lot of what others might call filler from all of their albums between Surfer Girl and Summer Days (and Summer Nights!!) personally, though I could do without the spoken tracks.

As for their '70s output, since the songwriting was more democratic, I think a lot of the problem was internal politics, of which the issue with Dennis and Carl's fight keeping Dennis' songs from Surf's Up would be one example.

[Dancing Bear]

When you want to write, arrange and finish a track in 2 hours you end up with 'I'm Bugged at my Old Man'. The comedy tracks were an artistic choice.

[tpesky]

I have no problems with any of the so called filler songs at all, some of which I love and others I'm ok with. It's the Recording Sessions, Bull Sessions stuff but I think that was an artistic choice at the time, that whole comedy with the group thing. Jan and Dean were getting big into comedy too. It just hasn't held up over time, but that's true of many fads in pop culture.

[buddhahat]

When you want to write, arrange and finish a track in 2 hours you end up with 'I'm Bugged at my Old Man'. The comedy tracks were an artistic choice.

Yes this is true. Look at the albums between Shut Down & Wild Honey. Every one has either an overtly comedic skit/song or a humorous song. Pet Sounds is the only exception but you could even argue that the dogs barking is a humour piece of sorts.

Shut Down Vol 2 - Cassius" Love vs. "Sonny" Wilson
All Summer Long - Our Favorite Recording Sessions
Christmas Album - Santa's Beard
Today! - Bull Session with Big Daddy
Summer days & SN - I'm Bugged At My Old Man
Party! - Medley: "I Get Around" / "Little Deuce Coupe + general humourous banter throughout
Pet Sounds - Banana & Louie/train whistle?
Smile - Brian's plans for a humour album, talking between songs, "You're Under Arrest", Holidays, Vegetables, I Wanna Be Around following Fire? etc.
Smiley Smile - She's Goin' Bald, Vegetables
Wild Honey - Mama Says