New Jeff Beck interview. Discuss.

[guitarfool2002]

Conflicting reports from Desper and Ray. I think the question is more who you would believe more, and why?

Which of the reports is recent and which is 40 years ago?

Or to turn it a different way, not to impugn but just to add: If a high school classmate of mine I haven't spent much time with in 20 years were asked what I listened to and who I was influenced by musically, it would be almost radically different from recent years of my life. I'm not the same person musically that I was in school, simple as that.

So that high school person would say...oh, he never listened to Duane Allman or Phil Spector's music when I knew him...while the musicians I play with and people I hang around today would say something different. And I did listen to Allman and Spector but didn't wear it on my sleeve as much as others.

[guitarfool2002]

Step by step for Nicko1234:

1. Click on the link   2. Read the specific message at that link  3. Get the point?

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,17947.msg464561.html#msg464561

Simple.

Nice attitude admin.  

Sure, I can read Ray Lawlor`s post.

I can also read Stephen Desper`s post which does mention Brian playing the interviewers which is presumably what you referred to in your post.

Now comments like Stephen Desper`s are not, `drawn from the same well` as anything. The board is all about people giving different opinions and it`s cool that 2 people who have known Brian during different periods have given their comments.

Well if you could read it, why didn't you at least reference it in the first place?    I know that thread very well, and didn't need a reminder on who said what...though I appreciate it...and it wasn't why I posted the link!

I'm not easily duped or baited, either. Not that it applies here, but just sayin'.   

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Which of the reports is recent and which is 40 years ago?

Oh yeah, I agree, which is why I posted that. I'd go with Ray as his recollection is more current. Brian's tastes changed over the years, like most people's do. Heck, Brian used to listen to more current music in the 70s and 80s and yet now by his own admission it's mainly 50s and 60s.

[Nicko1234]

Well if you could read it, why didn't you at least reference it in the first place?    I know that thread very well, and didn't need a reminder on who said what...though I appreciate it...and it wasn't why I posted the link!

I'm not easily duped or baited, either. Not that it applies here, but just sayin'.   

Because it doesn`t mean that another poster (in this case Mr Desper) shouldn`t have given his opinion. And it certainly doesn`t mean that these opinions are, `drawn from the same well` as you put it. There is no big agenda going on that I can see...

[guitarfool2002]

I'm appealing to Nicko1234 to consider just these three things to see where I'm coming from:

1.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjG_DpfC-74

2.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/brian-wilson-here-comes-the-sun-401202.html
BW: "Oh, yes – I love Bach! I have to tell you that JS Bach was easily the greatest musical innovator in the history of the world. He was so advanced for his time. There's a spiritual depth to his music. You can listen to it and it's like meditation."

3.  http://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/music/pop/12377/
Q: In the new documentary, you use the phrase “rock opera” a lot to describe Smile—do you have a favorite classical composer?
BW: Bach. He was an innovator.


My perspective was shaped by quotes like those. It's tough to question the authenticity of a statement when the guy has repeated similar things in numerous interviews.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I can definitely see that, which is why I was a bit taken back by Stephen's post.

One thing, though...maybe him and Ray were both right...Brian did dig Bach then, but was also playing the interviewer.

Just a thought.

[guitarfool2002]

BW 2004: “We wanted it to sound like a continuum, because I like it when music flows. Bach’s music did that. To do that, though, you have to have the knack for it; you have to know your classical music. My favorite was Bach, because he used simple chords and simple forms, but got such complex results. That’s what I was trying to do.”

I could go all night with quotes but I think I made the point I wanted to make. If *anyone* suggested something other than Brian was and is a fan and admirer of Bach and that he took influence from the music, I'd have these quotes and more in my mind as I'd challenge the opinion based on what the man actually said. That's not impugning anyone or shutting out opinions, it's just basing it more on what BW has said repeatedly over opinions. And if and when it goes into challenging the legitimacy or the truthfulness of what he was/is saying, that becomes another issue, again based on how often he has been quoted saying things like this.

[guitarfool2002]

I can definitely see that, which is why I was a bit taken back by Stephen's post.

One thing, though...maybe him and Ray were both right...Brian did dig Bach then, but was also playing the interviewer.

Just a thought.

I can see that, but at the same time one is confirming something that has been said repeatedly by Brian himself and the other is an opinion that he was playing up for the interview.

It should be noted too that apparently Brian at one time - I don't know the time or the details - told someone that the instrumental break on "Here Today" was inspired by Bach. Likewise I've seen people speculate that the decision to use harpsichord on "When I Grow Up" was a nod to Bach. In the case of Here Today, if Brian did indeed say that was his nod to Bach, I weigh that more heavily than observers suggesting the harpsichord on When I Grow Up was inspired by Bach because I have never heard him mention that directly. And I would accept the Here Today statement/story before accepting the assumption about the other tune.

[Nicko1234]

I'm appealing to Nicko1234 to consider just these three things to see where I'm coming from:

1.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjG_DpfC-74

2.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/brian-wilson-here-comes-the-sun-401202.html
BW: "Oh, yes – I love Bach! I have to tell you that JS Bach was easily the greatest musical innovator in the history of the world. He was so advanced for his time. There's a spiritual depth to his music. You can listen to it and it's like meditation."

3.  http://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/music/pop/12377/
Q: In the new documentary, you use the phrase “rock opera” a lot to describe Smile—do you have a favorite classical composer?
BW: Bach. He was an innovator.


My perspective was shaped by quotes like those. It's tough to question the authenticity of a statement when the guy has repeated similar things in numerous interviews.

That`s not really the point.  

I`m not saying that Stephen Desper was right. I`m just saying that him making a comment does not mean, to use the phrase again, that his feelings are, `drawn from the same well` or that there is any agenda going on.

I don`t think there is any connection to the subject of this thread at all. There is no mysterious conspiracy going on.  

To get back closer to the topic...you asked the question earlier in the thread, `Does Jeff Beck suggesting Brian snubbed him mean that's actually the full story of what happened?`

As you said, the answer is obviously no. But do Brian`s comments (or Mike`s comments or Al`s comments or anyone`s comments) tell us the full story of anything either? The answer obviously has to be no again doesn`t it. They are all unreliable witnesses and you don`t have to have an agenda to believe that.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Off subject, but the Bach thing reminds me of something.

During my college days, I had a complete numbnut as an instructor for my music theory class. This was fall of 1998. Anyway, guy flat out said that  (and I quote)'the only person throughout history that ever wrote anything substantial was JS Bach'. He meant it too. Every other week, we were to submit a composition for our grade, and everyone in the class was getting bad marks, with comments written like 'this is NOT what Bach would've done'.  So, to be a bit of jerk myself, one week I painstakingly transcribed the sheet music for God Only Knows and submitted that as my own composition, just to see what he would say. Lo and behold, when he looked at it, he threw it down on his desk and said in front of the entire class 'this is absolute garbage that makes no musical sense...Bach would be ashamed of you.' Keep in mind he didn't play it, or have any idea of what it was. Fucking doof.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm appealing to Nicko1234 to consider just these three things to see where I'm coming from:

1.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjG_DpfC-74

2.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/brian-wilson-here-comes-the-sun-401202.html
BW: "Oh, yes – I love Bach! I have to tell you that JS Bach was easily the greatest musical innovator in the history of the world. He was so advanced for his time. There's a spiritual depth to his music. You can listen to it and it's like meditation."

3.  http://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/music/pop/12377/
Q: In the new documentary, you use the phrase “rock opera” a lot to describe Smile—do you have a favorite classical composer?
BW: Bach. He was an innovator.


My perspective was shaped by quotes like those. It's tough to question the authenticity of a statement when the guy has repeated similar things in numerous interviews.

That`s not really the point.  

I`m not saying that Stephen Desper was right. I`m just saying that him making a comment does not mean, to use the phrase again, that his feelings are, `drawn from the same well` or that there is any agenda going on.

I don`t think there is any connection to the subject of this thread at all. There is no mysterious conspiracy going on.  

To get back closer to the topic...you asked the question earlier in the thread, `Does Jeff Beck suggesting Brian snubbed him mean that's actually the full story of what happened?`

As you said, the answer is obviously no. But do Brian`s comments (or Mike`s comments or Al`s comments or anyone`s comments) tell us the full story of anything either? The answer obviously has to be no again doesn`t it. They are all unreliable witnesses and you don`t have to have an agenda to believe that.

Isn't this setting up a scenario, then, where no one is reliable as a witness, no one can tell the full story, therefore no one is telling the truth because everyone's word is unreliable? So "event x" happens, and if it were to involve let's say Mike and Al, there is no truth to what actually happened to be told by either man because both parties are unreliable? That could set a standard where the lie and the truth coexist equally because the parties involved doing the eyewitnessing are all unreliable...how does anything get sorted out? And how does the truth actually become the account of "event x" when it's being discussed rather than the lie being passed off equally?

That's a pretty nihilistic scene right there.    I wonder what Beck's and Brian's opinions are of the sandwiches at that deli...if we can trust them.  

[guitarfool2002]

Off subject, but the Bach thing reminds me of something.

During my college days, I had a complete numbnut as an instructor for my music theory class. This was fall of 1998. Anyway, guy flat out said that  (and I quote)'the only person throughout history that ever wrote anything substantial was JS Bach'. He meant it too. Every other week, we were to submit a composition for our grade, and everyone in the class was getting bad marks, with comments written like 'this is NOT what Bach would've done'.  So, to be a bit of jerk myself, one week I painstakingly transcribed the sheet music for God Only Knows and submitted that as my own composition, just to see what he would say. Lo and behold, when he looked at it, he threw it down on his desk and said in front of the entire class 'this is absolute garbage that makes no musical sense...Bach would be ashamed of you.' Keep in mind he didn't play it, or have any idea of what it was. Fucking doof.

That is a great story - and it does illustrate a lot of the problems and biases that keep minds closed in the music education world. "Absolute garbage"? Haha...too bad you couldn't have somehow contacted McCartney's people and had Sir Paul come into the class unannounced to give his thoughts on that garbage music.    Or even Brian!

[Nicko1234]

Isn't this setting up a scenario, then, where no one is reliable as a witness, no one can tell the full story, therefore no one is telling the truth because everyone's word is unreliable? So "event x" happens, and if it were to involve let's say Mike and Al, there is no truth to what actually happened to be told by either man because both parties are unreliable? That could set a standard where the lie and the truth coexist equally because the parties involved doing the eyewitnessing are all unreliable...how does anything get sorted out? And how does the truth actually become the account of "event x" when it's being discussed rather than the lie being passed off equally?

That's a pretty nihilistic scene right there.    I wonder what Beck's and Brian's opinions are of the sandwiches at that deli...if we can trust them.  

Nah, just because one person`s account isn`t going to be 100% reliable, that doesn`t make it 100% unreliable either.  

And how do we get to the truth? By looking to as many sources as possible I suppose. That`s why Poirot interviewed as many witnesses as possible before deciding that they were all guilty.  

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Off subject, but the Bach thing reminds me of something.

During my college days, I had a complete numbnut as an instructor for my music theory class. This was fall of 1998. Anyway, guy flat out said that  (and I quote)'the only person throughout history that ever wrote anything substantial was JS Bach'. He meant it too. Every other week, we were to submit a composition for our grade, and everyone in the class was getting bad marks, with comments written like 'this is NOT what Bach would've done'.  So, to be a bit of jerk myself, one week I painstakingly transcribed the sheet music for God Only Knows and submitted that as my own composition, just to see what he would say. Lo and behold, when he looked at it, he threw it down on his desk and said in front of the entire class 'this is absolute garbage that makes no musical sense...Bach would be ashamed of you.' Keep in mind he didn't play it, or have any idea of what it was. Fucking doof.

That is a great story - and it does illustrate a lot of the problems and biases that keep minds closed in the music education world. "Absolute garbage"? Haha...too bad you couldn't have somehow contacted McCartney's people and had Sir Paul come into the class unannounced to give his thoughts on that garbage music.    Or even Brian!

Sad part is, he was a younger guy...younger than I am now, for sure.

Just to be an ass, I recorded several songs from the composition book (minus God Only Knows, of course), and if I ever break through commercially, I'm gonna mention that story whenever possible.

[Ron]

Off subject, but the Bach thing reminds me of something.

During my college days, I had a complete numbnut as an instructor for my music theory class. This was fall of 1998. Anyway, guy flat out said that  (and I quote)'the only person throughout history that ever wrote anything substantial was JS Bach'. He meant it too. Every other week, we were to submit a composition for our grade, and everyone in the class was getting bad marks, with comments written like 'this is NOT what Bach would've done'.  So, to be a bit of jerk myself, one week I painstakingly transcribed the sheet music for God Only Knows and submitted that as my own composition, just to see what he would say. Lo and behold, when he looked at it, he threw it down on his desk and said in front of the entire class 'this is absolute garbage that makes no musical sense...Bach would be ashamed of you.' Keep in mind he didn't play it, or have any idea of what it was. Fucking doof.

My music theory teacher in college was the exact opposite.  He was pretty snobby, even more snobby than the snobbies on this board... but he did a couple things that really impressed me.  He seemed to have an equal love for an entire who's who of classical music... and on the last day of class, in his dry, drab style... introduced us to the Beatles and presented them as a modern day 'equal' to the greats like Bach.  One day, he played a little bit of Beethoven's pathitique and I stayed after class to tell him that I had heard Billy Joel steal the melody for his song "This Night".  In his same dry, drab way he said "Well, I don't think Beethoven would mind"

Which I think was a compliment to Billy Joel.  

[Ron]

Isn't this setting up a scenario, then, where no one is reliable as a witness, no one can tell the full story, therefore no one is telling the truth because everyone's word is unreliable? So "event x" happens, and if it were to involve let's say Mike and Al, there is no truth to what actually happened to be told by either man because both parties are unreliable? That could set a standard where the lie and the truth coexist equally because the parties involved doing the eyewitnessing are all unreliable...how does anything get sorted out? And how does the truth actually become the account of "event x" when it's being discussed rather than the lie being passed off equally?

That's a pretty nihilistic scene right there.    I wonder what Beck's and Brian's opinions are of the sandwiches at that deli...if we can trust them.  

Nah, just because one person`s account isn`t going to be 100% reliable, that doesn`t make it 100% unreliable either.  

And how do we get to the truth? By looking to as many sources as possible I suppose. That`s why Poirot interviewed as many witnesses as possible before deciding that they were all guilty.  

Dr. Phil always says "No matter how flat you make a pancake it's still got two sides"

and then I've always heard there's three sides to every story; his, hers, and the truth.

[filledeplage]

At this point I've had my fill of various attempts to rewrite or reshape history to possibly suit an agenda. There is an agenda at work, what exactly it is...who knows. I'm curious to see what the end game may be if there is one, or if it's just a small group of fans who seem to have something negative to say against BW in general spouting off whenever news breaks. But I've had my fill of various attempts to paint certain events or even truths as something other than what they are, and maybe if someone here could shed some light on the reasons why almost every announcement or news blurb or report or leaked photo or video of recent BW projects has come under such scrutiny as to be ridiculous.

I have speculated in the past that BRI might either be compensating some posters or doing posting on its own to boost Mike's legitimacy as a touring act. Pure speculation, of course, but it definitely would have harmed Mike if his post C50-touring activities had actually caused confusion among fans, and there was ample evidence that it did. At about the same time that such reports started appearing on this board, there was a notable uptick in pro-Mike, "it was always planned this way," "Only idiots would expect the full band to continue" kinds of posts.

It makes you wonder, right? Because if Al or Brian's managers / wives had dropped by and seen evidence of confusion, they might have some ground to contest that exclusive touring license. But as it was, those early posts about post-C50 M&B shows were buried under an avalanche of similarly-worded pushback. And then, a bunch of posts made sure to note how happy everyone way to be paid their shares of Mike's revenue.

I'm not a conspiracy minded guy, really, and I think this line of thinking can rapidly turn really weird. But it is curious. And we know that the history of this group has many strange diversions.

Seriously? That "speculation" as to whether Mike has paid posters is patently absurd.  I guess I'll look in my mailbox for the check. FYI - just back from four days of sold out shows.  Arguing with success?

When Mike decided to rebuild a Touring Band, after Carl died, I'm the first to admit ( as a "doubting Thomas" type ) I had to take a real wait-and-see approach. And, contemporaneously, I saw Brian, and was delighted to do so, especially after the loss of a second sibling (I've been there;  a pretty ugly place) and watching Brian "bloom" in front of the audience, with Melinda off to the side of the stage.

Mike, was, I think sort of wisely conservative (not in the political sense)in his approach.  Now, the Touring Band has a global track record in various venues, and a carefully-crafted setlist with core people who are perfectionists.  In terms of fans, I'd be on the fussiest list, looking for a balance of what I go to hear.  And from small kids to some lady who just turned 100 or 101...

Four sold-out shows. And, I just checked the mailbox.  No "negotiable instrument" yet.

 I just called, and they said to tell you "the check is in the mail"

Bgas, that was a classic, and cracked me up, having my coffee!

But, put this one on ice for later!  

And GF2002 is exactly dead on.  There is no place for "revisionist history" and frankly enough eyewitnesses who aren't going anywhere, anytime soon. And, interviews by the band, from different eras, which controvert some new would-be spin masters and mistresses. (Hopefully! )  

The music corpus is sufficient. Drama is not necessary.  
 
Only the "good go young!"  

[Pretty Funky]

Off subject, but the Bach thing reminds me of something.

During my college days, I had a complete numbnut as an instructor for my music theory class. This was fall of 1998. Anyway, guy flat out said that  (and I quote)'the only person throughout history that ever wrote anything substantial was JS Bach'. He meant it too. Every other week, we were to submit a composition for our grade, and everyone in the class was getting bad marks, with comments written like 'this is NOT what Bach would've done'.  So, to be a bit of jerk myself, one week I painstakingly transcribed the sheet music for God Only Knows and submitted that as my own composition, just to see what he would say. Lo and behold, when he looked at it, he threw it down on his desk and said in front of the entire class 'this is absolute garbage that makes no musical sense...Bach would be ashamed of you.' Keep in mind he didn't play it, or have any idea of what it was. Fucking doof.

Neat story. Thanks!

Reminded of course of Brians music teacher giving him an F.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Well, I DID get a D- on my final, and that track will be on the album, although not going to be released as a single. Wish i could remember that asshat's name...I'd send him a copy with a note saying 'who's ashamed NOW, bitch'